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View Full Version : prop-fubar. need help advice consolation, feel like puking


Joseph
10-17-2010, 10:33 PM
It is with a sick feeling that i type this. My one and only indulgence (99 maristar 210) met a huge piece of concrete buried within 2 feet of water. It was midnight and we were out for a romantic night time boat ride (the "shallow buoys" is not really in the right spot). As the boat hit the first edge of the rock, i fell forward and hit the throttle with my knee and my forhead hit the windshield. The sickening thud, tearing and ripping noise was followed by silence as the motor died. Restarted the engine and . . . nothing. Had to paddle back 1/4 mile with a ski and 1 emergency paddle. (i will now buy a second paddle). Got back to the lift and saw this . . . I felt and still feel sick.
Wanting to know what to do, how to approach this. How careful do i need to be to find someone to do the hull repair. Any suggestions (live in Wichita, KS)? will travel pretty far to ensure I get an honest and meticulous repair. I love my boat. Went out and found the prop remnants. Rudder is bent and shaft strut is bent, cracks as shown. very slight amount of water around rudder in motor bay. Appears that the rudder bending is what cracked the fiberglass.
Sorry teamtalk. Thanks for being here.

Joseph
10-17-2010, 10:35 PM
oh, so depressed, i forgot the pictures.

Joseph
10-17-2010, 10:36 PM
a few more . . . :(

russlars
10-17-2010, 10:46 PM
Sorry to hear of your misfortune. Since it will likely be an expensive fix, I would recommend a call to your insurance.
If there is any consolation, at least it happened at the end of the season so hopefully you will be up and going again by next spring.

JLeuck64
10-17-2010, 11:21 PM
Ditto... the cost of the drivetrain parts you will need are easily going to be more than your deductible. The glass and gelcoat repairs don't look to be too serious though. You want to see some serious glass and gelcoat damage look through my showroom pics sometime. Might give you a little encouragement!

http://www.mastercraft.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=2572&sort=1

ttu
10-17-2010, 11:22 PM
damm, what lake were you on?

marine world there in wichita has the staff but you might also call pier 5 over in hutchinson. my 1st inboard, yes a moomba outback was a bank repo that i purchased from them. the previous owners took the tower off before the repo guys got there. pier 5 put a new updated factory tower on the boat and you would have never knew where they repaired the fiberglass and gel coat.

mastercrafty
10-17-2010, 11:32 PM
Sorry to see that, I have been there before and tore up my drive gear also. I am in the process of aquiring a 94 pro star 190 salvage boat. If i get it I will have a lot of good pieces for sale. I have looked at the drive gear and I'm pretty sure they are same. Is your shaft 1 inch or 1 1\8
I will know if I get the boat by the end of the month, I will get back with you.
Steve

Joseph
10-18-2010, 08:32 AM
its a small sandpit lake that we live on. This is the only hazard really. We have a "neighborhood meeting" tonight and i think i'll recommend lighted buoys. Didn't see the 2 buoys until we were on them. I figured the hull cracks would be the most serious. Isn't that a structural or reinforced area that is "part" of the hull? I am a bit worried about going to the dealer in Wichita. Is this a DIY project? (i mean the drivetrain stuff). Everyone here always makes everything sound so simple. Thanks :) bolt off, bolt on? I'm capable of taking things apart and putting them back together but this would be the most serious of repairs i have ever done. thanks so far for the sympathy. lol

bturner2
10-18-2010, 08:52 AM
One place to start when looking for a good shop would be your MC dealer. They sell high end boats and even high end boats occasionally need warranty gel coat work. Most dealers will know of good shops that should be able to repair this to the degree that you will not be able to tell where the repair was made (at least on the outside).

You may also want to take this opportunity to repair any other areas that need attention. It's been my experience that a shop doing this much work will also be willing to throw in or at least repair other areas at a substantial discount. The boat will already be there, they'll have the materials paid for from the main damaged area and usually you'll only need to pay for the additional labor. At least that's how it's worked out for me. Sorry to see this damage but maybe you can at least put some positive spin on this situation.

trickskier
10-18-2010, 09:07 AM
OUCH!!! That's going to be an expensive repair - Hope you have good insurance!

Yellow X9
10-18-2010, 09:09 AM
One place to start when looking for a good shop would be your MC dealer. They sell high end boats and even high end boats occasionally need warranty gel coat work. Most dealers will know of good shops that should be able to repair this to the degree that you will not be able to tell where the repair was made (at least on the outside).

You may also want to take this opportunity to repair any other areas that need attention. It's been my experience that a shop doing this much work will also be willing to throw in or at least repair other areas at a substantial discount. The boat will already be there, they'll have the materials paid for from the main damaged area and usually you'll only need to pay for the additional labor. At least that's how it's worked out for me. Sorry to see this damage but maybe you can at least put some positive spin on this situation.

Not sure in the Mid-West your located- but the Texas MAstercraft dealer in Ft. Worth, Tx has an excellent Gelcoat repair person, had to use once so far, and no complaints

scott023
10-18-2010, 10:05 AM
Yikes, sorry to hear of your troubles, and sickening to see the pics. Best of luck with the repairs.

cpf17889
10-18-2010, 11:06 AM
I am Sorry for your misfortune!!! however i do have a Lh brand new Acme prop i can sell you cheap if you would like. good luckl

MariStar-Man
10-18-2010, 11:55 AM
I'm soo sorry about that. I would be worried being in 2 feet of water. It sounds like you were going slow. Isn't there supposed to be a Low Water warning buzzer on the depth gauge? I know I have one on mine, but I haven't set it yet.

Thanks for sharing, I hope the MC Dealer can point you toward a good repair shop. I don't think the Fiberglass is a DIY, at least in the area in question...

MariStar-Man
10-18-2010, 12:04 PM
OOps, i have to tell you a story about those bouy's...

A friend of mine let his wife drive his new MC with her friends who like to slalom. The wife was a good driver but you know how it is... They took off and the husband bacame impatient for his wifes return. Finally, he sees his boat being towed in and listing to one side...

The wife approaches crying, as she tells her husband that she just took the slalom course and hit something under the water and that the boat raised up, scraped and threw her into the dash. All the drive gear was gone, and the boat was taking on lots of water.

The husband later finds that the bouy's in question were Low-Water Bouys and not the slalom Course...

broncotw
10-18-2010, 12:32 PM
Ouch!!! Please keep us posted and be sure to post pictures of the repair proces.... This time next year, this will be a bad memory for you!!!

thatsmrmastercraft
10-18-2010, 12:37 PM
Wow, reading that made me feel sick - I can only imagine how you felt. By working with your insurance company and your local MC dealer, you should be able to put all the pieces back together again with a minimum of further discomfort. Good luck.

CantRepeat
10-18-2010, 12:47 PM
Dang! That's not good. Sorry about your troubles!

When I bent my rudder, prop, strut, and prop shaft I was in it for about $1200 total, maybe a little less.

Some of that gel coat just looks cosmetic and shouldn't be all that much to repair. However, the strut housing looks rough. I would get estimates before you turn it into your insurance company.

Best of luck with your repairs.

kkkeating
10-18-2010, 01:02 PM
Wow, that’s one expensive romantic evening; I imagine that put a damper on everything.

rspiecha
10-18-2010, 02:47 PM
Mine was close to $2000 when I hit a submerged tree. Prop, strut, shaft, alignment, and labor at the dealer. I didn't have any fiberglass damage.

suiterob
10-18-2010, 03:13 PM
sorry to hear of your misfortune. good luck in the process of getting your boat back in operation!

André
10-18-2010, 07:44 PM
Ouch! Sorry for you...:(
I'ld say it's at least a 4k job.
How fast were you going while in your romantic cruise?

TX.X-30 fan
10-18-2010, 08:30 PM
That looks seriously structural, looks like the crack may be all the way through the hull and at the rudder is not good.

Sorry about your mis-hap

Joseph
10-18-2010, 11:53 PM
thanks guys alot!!! Thats sort of what i was worried about, TX.x-30. The one crack does go through the hull on the right (starboard). I want to be as informed as possible before i go to the dealer. I don't want them telling me the entire hull stringer assembly needs to be rebuilt or the hull needs to be cut out or something outrageous. The information gotten here is soooo helpful to someone still learnig about my boat. The rudder hitting is what i think did the damage. thanks for the price range info too. I was wondering about getting the hull repaired and then maybe replace the drivetrain parts over the winter :)
Lh brand Acme prop? Was thinking about my new opportunity to get an OJ prop from Eric. Seems as if that is the prop brand that gets mentioned a lot. I will be reading a bunch of old threads here and find out about the DIY aspect of the drive shaft stuff. What better way to really learn about a boat :) Yea, it was a complete damper on the romantic aspect of the evening. Wife is really supportive. We just in gear until the first scrap threw my knee forward against the throttle. I was crouching on top of the seat to see above the windshield. Ugh. I talked with the lake committee people tonight. They are going to light the buoys for us night time drivers.
Last question-how sound is a repair in this spot if done correctly?

MariStar-Man
10-19-2010, 01:01 AM
Here is the Oj prop compared to the Acme...I tried both and I liked the OJ better. It is a lot thicker at the edges, and got me planing at 15 where the Acme I to get it at 18...

The OJ is 14 x 20 1 1/8th

Acme is 13.5 x 17.5 1 1/8th

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x203/DocHoliday1964/1999%20Maristar/Rudder/DSC01583.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x203/DocHoliday1964/1999%20Maristar/Rudder/DSC01584.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x203/DocHoliday1964/1999%20Maristar/Rudder/DSC01585.jpg

Chicago190
10-19-2010, 01:20 AM
On the bright side, the hull looks repairable.

If you're marginally mechanically-inclined you should be able to replace all the running gear yourself. Strut and prop shaft might be repairable - check with OJ props because they have a repair service for props and might handle struts and prop shafts too. Prop replacement is something that a lot of people do anyway, so think of it as a performance upgrade you would have done without the accident.

bturner2
10-19-2010, 08:47 AM
If you're going to replace the rudder and running gear yourself you may want to check out Skier to Skier (http://www.skiertoskier.com/index.html?page=/pphome.htm). They carry all the OJ parts and have been consistently the cheapest that I've found when using all the discounts. They don't carry shafts so you'll probably need to go to Discount Inboard Marine (http://www.skidim.com/) for that. They also have a very knowledgeable staff that will help you get all the parts you need for your repair.

This will at least give you a couple places to start getting a parts repair list and pricing together.

TallRedRider
10-19-2010, 03:59 PM
Ditto... the cost of the drivetrain parts you will need are easily going to be more than your deductible. The glass and gelcoat repairs don't look to be too serious though. You want to see some serious glass and gelcoat damage look through my showroom pics sometime. Might give you a little encouragement!


I think it looks pretty serious. I had a friend that had his boat looking better than that...but the cracks in the fiberglass will extend a foot or two beyond what you can see. And not gelcoat, we are talking structural fiberglass in that area. I bet the engine will need to be removed and the bottom cut out and new fiberglass put in altogether. I would not settle for just sanding it down and regelcoating it.

His repair cost 13K. They might even consider totalling your boat.

Best of luck! Hope you get rolling again soon.

Here is the Oj prop compared to the Acme...I tried both and I liked the OJ better. It is a lot thicker at the edges, and got me planing at 15 where the Acme I to get it at 18...

The OJ is 14 x 20 1 1/8th

Acme is 13.5 x 17.5 1 1/8th



I would definitely not take that as an ACME is bad...you can't compare props with different diameters and pitches and declare 1 brand is better than another. That Acme looks several years old? I don't see the CNC marks on it like they have now.

EJ OJPROP
10-19-2010, 04:24 PM
The old looking prop is the OJ from our FORCE 4-blade line, which is not machined.

TallRedRider
10-19-2010, 04:33 PM
The old looking prop is the OJ from our FORCE 4-blade line, which is not machined.

Hahaha. Got me on that one. BTW, I been meaning to call you...we gotta see if my prop situation needs to be fixed or not.

Maristar210
10-19-2010, 11:50 PM
Acme prop is the better choice by far. PM me, Sodar, Tx-x30, Prambold or many other long timers to get the straight story. MaristarMan wears jean shorts with untied hi-tops and lives in his mom's trailer so 5 grains of salt required there. 6 months ago he never owned an MC - please don't listen to him.....

MariStar-Man
10-20-2010, 12:40 AM
Why 210! What ever do you mean...?

There are many people who would rather have an OJ prop...You know, the ones that are OEM to MasterCraft...

And watch the personal attacks. I'm not interested in talking to you.

EJ OJPROP
10-20-2010, 08:05 AM
Acme prop is the better choice by far. PM me, Sodar, Tx-x30, Prambold or many other long timers to get the straight story. MaristarMan wears jean shorts with untied hi-tops and lives in his mom's trailer so 5 grains of salt required there. 6 months ago he never owned an MC - please don't listen to him.....

I tried a PM to you, did not go through.

JohnE
10-20-2010, 09:47 AM
I tried a PM to you, did not go through.

He has PM's turned off iirc.

scott023
10-20-2010, 10:01 AM
I really don't understand why there is SO much hype and push for OJ props on this forum. If one of the guys from ACME was a member, would everyone push them like they do OJ?

I am looking for a spare prop for our 45. I found the customer service was exceptional (I have called both OJ and ACME), felt like Bill at ACME really listened to what I ws looking for. The person I spoke to at OJ seemed insulted that I was interested in a different size prop then what came on the boat, that or they weren't interested in what I was saying.

Just some food for thought... just because the OJ is OEM on MasterCrafts DOES NOT mean they are the best prop. ACME will have props that are better suited to some boats applications, no different than OJ will. Best to get multiple opinions when shopping for a new prop.

CantRepeat
10-20-2010, 10:51 AM
Doh wrong quote.

CantRepeat
10-20-2010, 10:54 AM
Acme prop is the better choice by far. PM me, Sodar, Tx-x30, Prambold or many other long timers to get the straight story. MaristarMan wears jean shorts with untied hi-tops and lives in his mom's trailer so 5 grains of salt required there. 6 months ago he never owned an MC - please don't listen to him.....


Your insults to Maristarman are pretty childish and uncalled for. While you may question his boating knowledge and experience of the equipment he can give his opinion about what has work best for him in the past without you attacking him for it.

Maristar210
10-20-2010, 12:07 PM
PM's turned off for a reason. I have my opinion and I prefer Acme. As for the personal attacks? Gimme a break.

EJ OJPROP
10-20-2010, 12:14 PM
PM's turned off for a reason. I have my opinion and I prefer Acme. As for the personal attacks? Gimme a break.

I respect opinions. Was sending a PM to ask to hear your version of the straight story off the thread. No worries.

coz
10-20-2010, 12:47 PM
I respect opinions. Was sending a PM to ask to hear your version of the straight story off the thread. No worries.

Why worry Eric? Your company's been around longer that he's been on this earth and if he thinks acme is better than OJ and can't post his story up front then let him use them, just proves he doesn't know any better :rolleyes:

scott023
10-20-2010, 12:50 PM
Why worry Eric? Your company's been around longer that he's been on this earth and if he thinks acme is better than OJ and can't post his story up front then let him use them, just proves he doesn't no any better :rolleyes:

Coz, can you tell me, as a person currently looking for a prop, why OJ is better than ACME? What experiences have you had with the two of them head to head to determine which is better?

coz
10-20-2010, 01:02 PM
Coz, can you tell me, as a person currently looking for a prop, why OJ is better than ACME? What experiences have you had with the two of them head to head to determine which is better?

I'm not gonna get into a head banging contest with you guys but company reputation, quality, customer service and experience with both are why oj is my choice for props. I had an acme on my boat when I got it and it felt like there was too much flex and prop wash for my liking, I only went out 2 times before I picked up a 13x13 4 blade, liked the way it worked so I bought a "just in case" spare the same size.

scott023
10-20-2010, 01:06 PM
I'm not gonna get into a head banging contest with you guys but company reputation, quality, customer service and experience with both are why oj is my choice for props. I had an acme on my boat when I got it and it felt like there was too much flex and prop wash for my liking, I only went out 2 times before I picked up a 13x13 4 blade, liked the way it worked so I bought a "just in case" spare the same size.

No contest here Coz.. I want a second prop so I am looking for opinions.

I haven't heard anything negative about ACME in regards to quality or customer service, that's why I ask.

TX.X-30 fan
10-20-2010, 01:09 PM
Feeling prop flex between the 2 props.......................




That is a scream........................................... Like feeling loose muffler bearings

coz
10-20-2010, 01:15 PM
No contest here Coz.. I want a second prop so I am looking for opinions.

I haven't heard anything negative about ACME in regards to quality or customer service, that's why I ask.

No worries, it's a personal preference thing, you know? Kinda like the "I like Fords and he likes Chevy's deal :D

coz
10-20-2010, 01:20 PM
Feeling prop flex between the 2 props.......................




That is a scream........................................... Like feeling loose muffler bearings

You obviously don't know what I'm talking about when I say flex, it's like putting an aluminum prop up against a stainless prop.....you can feel the difference in the performance while using the boat, not trying to flex it with my hands :rolleyes:

bturner2
10-20-2010, 01:22 PM
I've ran OJ's on my last four MasterCrafts. Never had a problem with any of them.

I've personally have had nothing but excellent service from OJ while asking for prop recommendations and their prop repair service is second to none. They pretty much saved one of my vacations by rebuilding and overnighting a prop I managed to bend on a stump a couple days before our trip. They do excellent work and stand behind their products.

That's why when people ask me for a recommendation I send them Eric's way. I've never owned an Acme prop so I couldn't say anything one way or another about them.

scott023
10-20-2010, 01:25 PM
I've ran OJ's on my last four MasterCrafts. Never had a problem with any of them.

I've personally have had nothing but excellent service from OJ while asking for prop recommendations and their prop repair service is second to none. They pretty much saved one of my vacations by rebuilding and overnighting a prop I managed to bend on a stump a couple days before our trip. They do excellent work and stand behind their products.

That's why when people ask me for a recommendation I send them Eric's way. I've never owned an Acme prop so I couldn't say anything one way or another about them.

Exactly what I'm looking for. Thank you sir.

TX.X-30 fan
10-20-2010, 01:35 PM
You obviously don't know what I'm talking about when I say flex, it's like putting an aluminum prop up against a stainless prop.....you can feel the difference in the performance while using the boat, not trying to flex it with my hands :rolleyes:





Whatever makes you "feel" superior is good with me...................... You could not feel flex in a blind test to save your life, its ridiculous at best.

coz
10-20-2010, 01:52 PM
Whatever makes you "feel" superior is good with me...................... You could not feel flex in a blind test to save your life, its ridiculous at best.

Like I said :rolleyes:

I'm not gonna get into a head banging contest with you guys

FrankSchwab
10-20-2010, 01:59 PM
I've ran OJ's on my last four MasterCrafts. Never had a problem with any of them.

I've personally have had nothing but excellent service from OJ while asking for prop recommendations and their prop repair service is second to none. They pretty much saved one of my vacations by rebuilding and overnighting a prop I managed to bend on a stump a couple days before our trip. They do excellent work and stand behind their products.

That's why when people ask me for a recommendation I send them Eric's way. I've never owned an Acme prop so I couldn't say anything one way or another about them.

I haven't had a need to utilize OJ's service, but after reading this forum for years I've heard nothing but good things about OJ from some of the most difficult b*stards I've ever had the pleasure of (virtually) knowing. If OJ can make people here happy, you just have to know that their product and customer service are second to none.

For awhile, a representative from Acme was posting here. Good stories of products and services occurred with them also, and they got good respect, but then they kind of dropped off.

/frank

MariStar-Man
10-20-2010, 02:16 PM
I think that we should compare apples to apples. Even in my situation the props were different sizes, and shapes.

Ojprops has CNC props as well. Has anyone compared the same size/style props?

Yes, Bill at Acme is a great guy and is genuinely concerned about each individuals situation. However, He is also a Great Salesman and could sell porno posters to a Blind Man!

TX.X-30 fan
10-20-2010, 02:24 PM
Like I said :rolleyes:




Its is truly amazing you can feel and sense the "yield" in a prop sitting behind the steering wheel.

I bow to your amazing boating prowess.

CruisinGA
10-20-2010, 02:30 PM
PM's turned off for a reason. I have my opinion and I prefer Acme. As for the personal attacks? Gimme a break.

Maristar 210 = http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/4039/PreviewComp/SuperStock_4039-46707.jpg


I own both OJ and Acme props. Had great service from OJ in the past, bought my Acme prop second hand.

flipper
10-20-2010, 02:57 PM
I think that we should compare apples to apples. Even in my situation the props were different sizes, and shapes.

Ojprops has CNC props as well. Has anyone compared the same size/style props?

Yes, Bill at Acme is a great guy and is genuinely concerned about each individuals situation. However, He is also a Great Salesman and could sell porno posters to a Blind Man!

Search around, eastie did compare the two and did a write up about them.

flipper
10-20-2010, 03:08 PM
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=3462&highlight=ACME

JLeuck64
10-20-2010, 03:22 PM
thanks guys alot!!! Thats sort of what i was worried about, TX.x-30. The one crack does go through the hull on the right (starboard). I want to be as informed as possible before i go to the dealer. I don't want them telling me the entire hull stringer assembly needs to be rebuilt or the hull needs to be cut out or something outrageous. The information gotten here is soooo helpful to someone still learnig about my boat. The rudder hitting is what i think did the damage. thanks for the price range info too. I was wondering about getting the hull repaired and then maybe replace the drivetrain parts over the winter :)

Getting back on track with this thread...

The damage to the hull on my incident was much worse than yours I believe. I had damage to the rudder port and also the prop shaft hole. Both were fixed by grinding down the gelcoat and fiberglass to remove all the cracks. Those cracks are then filled in with new resin and the gelcoat is applied over the top of that. Have had my boat back on the water for three seasons now with no problems...

So it can be fixed, it's up to you to decide if it's worth it. My boat was a total as far as the insurance company was concerned. I decided not to walk away and fix it instead. With the balance left over from the payout I had just enough to fix the gelcoat and glass (which was expensive!) and buy all the drivetrain parts I needed. I did all the labor of putting the drivetrain back together myself which I was capable of doing. Sometimes I got stuck and needed some help which slowed down the process, but I always found the help I needed through this forum.

Bought some of my drivetrain parts from Cecil over at Elbert's
http://www.elberts.com/index.htm

HTH

flipper
10-20-2010, 03:23 PM
..........62471

MariStar-Man
10-20-2010, 03:25 PM
Its is truly amazing you can feel and sense the "yield" in a prop sitting behind the steering wheel.

I bow to your amazing boating prowess.
You know CoZ may be spot-on on this one...

In all Fairness, I too heard a humm when I did my power turn. The edge on the Acme felt flimsy, like it would dent hitting a small branch.

The OJ on the other had that shown in the pic above was prior to sending it off to Eric to be Refinished. The Edge on the OJ prop was thick and strong around the entire blade. Now that's a Fact...

Maybe a vote is in order...

FrankSchwab
10-20-2010, 03:27 PM
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=3462&highlight=ACME

Unfortunately, the links to the actual write-up in that post are no longer functioning.

flipper
10-20-2010, 03:27 PM
You know CoZ may be spot-on on this one...

In all Fairness, I too heard a humm when I did my power turn. The edge on the Acme felt flimsy, like it would dent hitting a small branch.

The OJ on the other had that shown in the pic above was prior to sending it off to Eric to be Refinished. The Edge on the OJ prop was thick and strong around the entire blade. Now that's a Fact...

Maybe a vote is in order...
Search I say search...there is one of those threads too

TX.X-30 fan
10-20-2010, 03:29 PM
He!! I feel like obama now bowing to everyone in sight............

flipper
10-20-2010, 03:29 PM
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=16273&highlight=ACME

Joseph
10-21-2010, 11:48 PM
I appreciate the input and prop info :) Found a fiberglass shop in town and will take my baby to them next week for an estimate and keep you all informed. Have a question about the strut/shaft and running gear. Is there a service manual for this? Or do I just call the links that you all have mentioned and get a tree stump/concrete fubar package with everything i need? How do you know that the coupling is bad and do you even replace the bearing etc. I know the strut is bent but do you just put the shaft on the floor and roll it to see if it is bent or is the tolerance that precise and it needs a more precise measurement? Thinking it might just be safer to assume its bent and buy a new one, but haven't checked out the prices yet. (sort of wanting to tackle this but i would feel better with some kind of manual) of course, i would never even think about it if it weren't for this site :) or maybe i'll just have to try trusting the dealer one more time . . .

kevkan
10-22-2010, 05:00 PM
I've never been a big fan of Marine World. Whats the name of the fiberglass shop in Wichita? Hope I don't need them, but just in case.

Joseph
10-22-2010, 06:18 PM
A-1 fiberglass on Seneca. They said they could even repair the running gear but i'm not sure how much of that they do. Plan on visiting them next week. I'll let ya know how it goes and what they say.

DooSPX
10-22-2010, 06:23 PM
I would rather buy the running gear from OJ rather than have someone (other than OJ (who made the gear) repair it)....

Good luck, and please keep us posted...

JohnE
10-23-2010, 03:07 PM
I'm honored to be in the presence of so many prop experts here. This place never ceases to amaze me. Can we just get a gentleman agreement that anyone with a prop question call Eric or Bill and get one from each and then decide for themselves? I really can't fathom that a prop with the same specs from OJ is substantially better or worse than one from Acme. Strange that when the question arises here that OJ is the king and over at Planet Nautique Acme reigns supreme.

MariStar-Man
10-23-2010, 03:22 PM
I'm honored to be in the presence of so many prop experts here.

yes, I resemble that remark...! 8p:D


Planet Nautique Acme reigns supreme.

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to report you to one of the Mods for terms of use violation...

"How shall I punish him?" "I can't Speak it, Be it as you may..." Ten commandments...

coz
10-23-2010, 07:19 PM
Ten commandments...

That's a whole nother thread right there.....but it never came to a conclusion :confused:

:D

Yellow X9
10-23-2010, 07:30 PM
met a huge piece of concrete buried within 2 feet of water.

I would suggest a depth gauge, after you get the boat repaired-so you won't get caught in 2ft. of water again

TallRedRider
10-23-2010, 07:50 PM
I'm honored to be in the presence of so many prop experts here. This place never ceases to amaze me. Can we just get a gentleman agreement that anyone with a prop question call Eric or Bill and get one from each and then decide for themselves? I really can't fathom that a prop with the same specs from OJ is substantially better or worse than one from Acme. Strange that when the question arises here that OJ is the king and over at Planet Nautique Acme reigns supreme.

There is a general feeling amongst MC owners that all wisdom flows from Vonore, Tennessee. It has been fascinating to see that when someone criticizes an OEM MC part, it is a little like speaking blasphemy in church. I think for that reason we have religious OJ prop fans, JL audio fans, etc.

JLeuck64
10-23-2010, 09:17 PM
I appreciate the input and prop info :) Found a fiberglass shop in town and will take my baby to them next week for an estimate and keep you all informed. Have a question about the strut/shaft and running gear. Is there a service manual for this? Or do I just call the links that you all have mentioned and get a tree stump/concrete fubar package with everything i need? How do you know that the coupling is bad and do you even replace the bearing etc. I know the strut is bent but do you just put the shaft on the floor and roll it to see if it is bent or is the tolerance that precise and it needs a more precise measurement? Thinking it might just be safer to assume its bent and buy a new one, but haven't checked out the prices yet. (sort of wanting to tackle this but i would feel better with some kind of manual) of course, i would never even think about it if it weren't for this site :) or maybe i'll just have to try trusting the dealer one more time . . .

Not much service manual info out there... but it is pretty straight forward and probably replicated a jillion times here.

You can choose to upgrade the coupling to a system that is more service friendly or leave it stock. I have done it both ways over the years and to be honest with you I don't pull the drive shaft out to replace the strut bearing/bushing as often as recommended...

Shafts are built to a few thousandths inch tolerance...

Wait to see what the glass/gelcoat repairs come in at. Then decide, Totally DIY in my opinion!

JohnE
10-24-2010, 09:53 AM
There is a general feeling amongst MC owners that all wisdom flows from Vonore, Tennessee. It has been fascinating to see that when someone criticizes an OEM MC part, it is a little like speaking blasphemy in church. I think for that reason we have religious OJ prop fans, JL audio fans, etc.

Kind of my point. But I still don't imagine there is enough difference in the 2 to matter.

kevkan
10-24-2010, 08:12 PM
met a huge piece of concrete buried within 2 feet of water.

I would suggest a depth gauge, after you get the boat repaired-so you won't get caught in 2ft. of water again

There have been a couple of comments like this. Having boated on a few sandpits, as this accident occured, the water level can go from 30' to 2' in an instant. You also find large chunks of concrete for some reason. Maybe they were anchors for the sand pump?

A depth gauge/finder would do you zero good in this instance.

Joseph
11-02-2010, 08:54 AM
alright, repairs underway. Estimate at A1 fiberglass is 2800 (includes buffing out other scratches-thanks for that suggestion) there were 3 other mastercraft boats there, all with the same problem:( . This is the same company that the dealer uses for their gelcoat repairs. Eric, as you all have mentioned is/was very helpful and has set me up with rudder, port assembly, shaft, strut and seal kit for around 1100. I need to measure the shaft length. (all about length isn't it) Eric said they come in 7 different lengths. Hmmm, I said just send the longest cuz ya know, i wanna be proud of my boat :) but he said it doesn't work that way. As for the prop, our spare is an OJ of different diam and pitch, (had a 13.7 x 19.5 and we have a 14 x 18)so we'll try that and see how that works. Thanks for the Acme offer but i am now an OJ disciple.
Asked the body shop to take pictures of the work and will try and post them. The boat repair place said if i provide the parts, they'll put them in. Ill probably try and do the alignment anyway to make sure it's within tolerance. So I think i am very very fortunate so far.
Thanks for so much input and help so far. Why is an education always so tuff?
Oh, the depth finder? Yea, well, its a 99 model. my model year used the propeller and shaft. (yea, i am starting to laugh about it now.) Don't think one would have helped anyway. Would have just been one more alarm to add to the horrible screeching and tearing noise.
thanks again. I WILL go skiing one more time this year yet.

MariStar-Man
11-02-2010, 10:31 AM
That's great news Joseph! I'm glad they were able to make you feel comfortable about the repairs that will be done. It sounds like they have a good handle on it and prices seem to be resonable.

And remember, It's not how long the shaft is, as how thick it is...Oh! and if your wondering, yes mine is
1 1/8th" :D

TX.X-30 fan
11-02-2010, 10:35 AM
Kind of my point. But I still don't imagine there is enough difference in the 2 to matter.




Ding ding ding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

DooSPX
11-02-2010, 11:07 AM
Its the non-pushy customer service that gets OJ followers... I have spoken with both over almost a year, and OJ is the only one that actually cared about helping me, not selling a prop. In fact caring about their customers beyond just a prop, as OJ as done.
It has been proven MANY times on here that Acme and OJ perform pretty similar, (OJ normally feels the best behind the boat) but its the CS that gets OJ fans...
Not to mention I was referring to the running gear... rudder, port shaft, strut, etc. OJ makes them, so let them repair the items as well.

I am very glad you are getting your boat fixed... hopefully you can enjoy the water a little bit more before the season ends.

TallRedRider
11-02-2010, 12:01 PM
Joseph,

I have an extra prop 13.7 X 19.5 if you want it. Forgot to put it on Ebay this summer. I think it is easily worth $100.

PM sent.

http://www.mastercraft.com/market/showproduct.php?product=3063&cat=500

Joseph
11-02-2010, 09:22 PM
[QUOTE=TallRedRider;717108]Joseph,

I have an extra prop 13.7 X 19.5 if you want it. Forgot to put it on Ebay this summer. I think it is easily worth $100.

Hey thanks for the offer. I talked with Eric about replacing my prop and some of the characteristics i had noticed with driving/pulling (engine pulling on turns and slowing down a bit). he had thought that the 19.5 pitch was probably a bit much for my boat. Since i have a spare in a different size, the 14 18, he said try that and see how it performed. Buuut i will keep it in mind in case i don't like the 14 18. i promise i'm going to go out one more time. if anything, it will be to lake test the boat:) Gotta try that drysuit.

Thanks maristar man for the support.

Joseph
11-02-2010, 09:28 PM
Anyone know why mastercraft puts a piece of plastic (around 2 in by 5 inches) (like a shim) on the inside mounting area of the rudder port? The fiberglass shop says that he just builds up the area with fiberglass and that the plastic is just an easy way to build up the area. I was wondering if the fiberglass buildup may provide too much strength in the area and cause more hull damage if this happened again. Sorry no pics and my description is probably pretty vague. the plastic was painted or glassed in with a thin layer. Thought maybe it was to reinforce the area for the bolts, but wouldn't aluminum be better?

JohnE
11-02-2010, 09:43 PM
Its the non-pushy customer service that gets OJ followers... I have spoken with both over almost a year, and OJ is the only one that actually cared about helping me, not selling a prop. In fact caring about their customers beyond just a prop, as OJ as done.
It has been proven MANY times on here that Acme and OJ perform pretty similar, (OJ normally feels the best behind the boat) but its the CS that gets OJ fans...
Not to mention I was referring to the running gear... rudder, port shaft, strut, etc. OJ makes them, so let them repair the items as well.

I am very glad you are getting your boat fixed... hopefully you can enjoy the water a little bit more before the season ends.

Clearly you haven't met The Ambassador.

FrankSchwab
11-03-2010, 12:12 AM
Joseph -
I don't have an authoritative answer for you; but if you look around on the inside surface of the hull, you'll see the same plastic (or in some cases) metal block glassed in in various places as backing plates. Look inside where the rear grab rail attaches, or perhaps where the tower mounts, or various other spots - just a reinforcement patch.
If they mounted the rudder port by screwing into the plastic plate, I'd certainly do it differently - a through bolt with a nylock nut.

/frank

Holman J.B.F
11-03-2010, 04:48 AM
Maybe to reinforce the rudder area for flex,...or a sound thingy- hieght thread rudderbox?
anyway,i did the same thing on a CC 210team filled it up with glass owner said it was better than before.If you buy a new rudderbox make shure it has a grease jerk on it,and for easy acces you can connect a remote line to it.grease the rudder every 50 hours,you,ll love it.

JMann
11-03-2010, 02:43 PM
OOps, i have to tell you a story about those bouy's...

A friend of mine let his wife drive his new MC with her friends who like to slalom. The wife was a good driver but you know how it is... They took off and the husband bacame impatient for his wifes return. Finally, he sees his boat being towed in and listing to one side...

The wife approaches crying, as she tells her husband that she just took the slalom course and hit something under the water and that the boat raised up, scraped and threw her into the dash. All the drive gear was gone, and the boat was taking on lots of water.

The husband later finds that the bouy's in question were Low-Water Bouys and not the slalom Course...

MariStar, If true where was this?

CantRepeat
11-03-2010, 03:12 PM
MariStar, If true where was this?

http://www.snopes.com/

MariStar-Man
11-05-2010, 12:10 PM
It has been a while since I had heard the story, but I beleive it was Lake Elsinore in California. It was really before I was into Boating, and I remembered thinking that both the Low Water, and the slalom must have looked similar for her to run into the wrong one...

Kyle
11-05-2010, 12:55 PM
Joseph sorry about your problems that you have had to deal with. One question though....
How did you retrieve the 2 or more broken blades off of the prop? Normally when they sheer off like that it is like finding a needle in a hay stack.

aaron.
11-05-2010, 01:22 PM
MaristarMan wears jean shorts with untied hi-tops and lives in his mom's trailer so 5 grains of salt required there. 6 months ago he never owned an MC - please don't listen to him.....

hahahahahahaha awesome!

my hi-tops are also untied... :cool:

Joseph
11-06-2010, 11:45 PM
hi Kyle, pretty easy to retrieve actually. The concrete slap was about 100 feet from shore. we were shoreward side of the buoys (just barely) I had always thought they were no wake buoys and i had never gone close to them. at night, didn't see them until i was right on them and turned to go further out in the lake. We were only going 2-4 mph. after the first hit my knee hit the throttle and i think it was this extra power that helped shear all the blades off. i went out the next day on my jet ski and i could see the gleam of three of the 4 blades. I was only knee deep in water! by the time i got 2 of them, the silt covered the other one and couldn't get it. Actually, I was too disgusted to keep looking for it.

Here's a pic of the plastic washer/backing plate/shim. It's not really strong enough to be considered a backing plate, (i would think anyway). it sits under the rudder port brass plate of course.

About the grease zert in the rudder box (same as rudder port?) hope it comes with one from Eric. Getting everything from him. He has been very helpful/considerate/knowledgable and available for questions. I didn't even shop around after talking to him first. All the support that members of TT have given him seems very well deserved. (if the rudder box doesn't come with one, can you drill a hole and screw in a grease zert?)

phatfooter
11-07-2010, 10:48 PM
Gruesome. Painful. Unfortunate. Likely fixable. Perhaps take it directly to Mastercraft. More importantly, was it the rapture of the romance that led you to distraction or was it the anticipation? After rowing 1/4 mile with a ski, it would be a special woman to have a second date.

macattack
11-08-2010, 03:04 PM
Joseph: My 2005 PS197 did not have any "plastic" rudder shaft backing pieces; all mine were brass. When I replaced my 2005 rudder w/the 2006 version, I sent my rudder port to Eric and he added the zerk/grease fitting. The only warning is to be careful when removing the grease gun from the fitting; do it on an angle vs straight out or you will pull the zerk fitting right out. This zerk fitting is pretty small ref the amount of threads. I would guess the zerk fitting is already on his newer ports...mac

Bouyhead
11-08-2010, 04:08 PM
With all the work going on in there this might be a good time to upgrade to this.

http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=22611&highlight=rudder+grease+fitting

Joseph
11-08-2010, 11:27 PM
Awsome. Ashamed to admit i wasn't aware of this part of the maintenance. another silver lining on this whole thing? Why do so many lessons in life need to be so expensive? Should be getting most of the parts from Eric this week. The shaft should be coming in next week. Fiberglass repairs sched to be finished early next week too :) The fiberglass shop said they would install all the parts for me and line things up. I'll go through the Gibbons propshaft alignment tutorial to check everything, put on the spare prop to see if i like the different pitch and diameter, don the dry suit and have my wife pull me once more before i winterize my 99 maristar 210 :)