PDA

View Full Version : Oil Choices


Hammers96PS205
10-12-2010, 09:52 PM
First post from new member that has been lurking and learning for about 6 months now and I really appreciate everyone sharing their knowledge about these wonderful boats.

I wanted to share something that I found today. I've been reading the board about the seemingly limited choices of motor oil available to us inboard owners. Automotive oils don't seem to be the best choice for these boats and marine oils are limited. After doing some searching I stumbled across and interesting option.

Joe Gibbs Racing has developed their own line of racing and performance motor oils. Here is a link to the website: http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/index.html
Although most of these are not applicable to our application (inboard engines), they do have a 15W-50 that was developed to specifically to protect old school engines (flat tappets, pushrods,high loads, etc.) that would benefit from oils with higher zinc and phosphorus content.

Has anyone used, or know of anyone that has used this this oil? Sounded interesting so I thought I'd share. I sent an email to their tech support asking about inboard applications. Here's my question to them and their response:

Hello,

I'm investigating the possibly using one of the JoeGibbsDriven oils in my MasterCraft ski boat. It is a 1996 model ProStar 205 that has a 5.7 GM inboard engine. These engines operate under under high load conditions and normally in the 2000 to 4500 (+/-) rpm range. They typically run at a low engine temperatures, anywhere from 140 to 160 degrees, depending on model and year of engine. Also, we winterize and store our boat approximately 4 to 5 months during the winter, so the corrosion protection of JGD that I've read about would be of importance to me.

I'm interested in your recommendation as to what JGD would be applicable for an engine of this type under these conditions? Thanks for your help !


Thanks for the email. I would recommend the 15W-50 Hot Rod Synthetic oil for your application. The high loads of boating requires extra viscosity to protect the engine. The rust protection of the Hot Rod oil is a benefit in a storage situation like yours.

Thanks,

Lake C. Speed, Jr.
Certified Lubrication Specialist
Joe Gibbs Racing
13415 Reese Blvd. W
Huntersville , NC 28078
704-239-4401 Cell
704-944-7538 Fax
lspeed@jgr18.com

95prostar
10-12-2010, 10:39 PM
i like that the guys name is Lake Speed and he is the lubrication specialist. maybe is the internal beavis or butthead in me.... he is correct on the oil specs. our engines run in a higher rpm range in different conditions versus cars/trucks.

Table Rocker
10-12-2010, 11:13 PM
I know Mobil One has a 15W-50 with the characteristics you mentioned.

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf

ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl-Dithio-Phosphate) is needed to prevent wear on flat tappets/cams. High levels of ZDDP are not required by modern roller tappet engines and using them can foul catalytic equipment found in today's autos.

If you have an older flat tappet engine, an oil with the old ZDDP levels, or a ZDDP additive would be a good choice.

CiscoStu
10-13-2010, 09:35 AM
A little off topic, but:

Lake Speed Jr would be the son of Lake Speed, former NASCAR driver in the '80's and '90's.

Makes sense he's at Joe Gibbs Racing, and I'd pretty much believe anything they say about high performance motors.

ski_king
10-13-2010, 09:46 AM
Yikes, $14.99 per quart!!

89BigBlock
10-13-2010, 12:37 PM
Well for my .02. I used the reccomended Penzoil in my 454 and spun a bearing in a rebuilt block! Switched to Amsoil, new rebuilt block and been running like a champ the last 3 seAsons. I put on about 150hrs on each yr.

bigmac
10-13-2010, 01:01 PM
Go for it guys. There's a sucker born every minute and the oil companies are experts at getting you to buy into their bull****. It's only money, and it's unlikely that these oils will actually harm your engines. And in the meantime, if paying $14.95/quart makes you feel better about your care of your engine, well... at least that's something.

Seems odd that these oil companies would know more about the lubrication needs of these engines than the engine mfgrs.

1redTA
10-13-2010, 01:44 PM
I use Rottella oil in my engines, it is supposed to have a higher amount of zinc in it.

FrankSchwab
10-13-2010, 03:31 PM
I figger if I can expect 2000 hours out of my boat engine, or 200,000 miles out of my car engine, by running on $3 / quart dino oil, why would I bother buying a $10 / quart or $15 / quart oil?

1redTA
10-13-2010, 03:45 PM
I figger if I can expect 2000 hours out of my boat engine, or 200,000 miles out of my car engine, by running on $3 / quart dino oil, why would I bother buying a $10 / quart or $15 / quart oil?

I got the Rottella synthetic blend for $11 gallon

ted shred
10-15-2010, 05:34 PM
Go for it guys. There's a sucker born every minute and the oil companies are experts at getting you to buy into their bull****. It's only money, and it's unlikely that these oils will actually harm your engines. And in the meantime, if paying $14.95/quart makes you feel better about your care of your engine, well... at least that's something.

Seems odd that these oil companies would know more about the lubrication needs of these engines than the engine mfgrs.

It would seem odd to me if these oil companies didn't know more about the lubrication needs of the mfgrs that they are marketing to. After all that is their business, lubrication.

03geetee
10-15-2010, 08:36 PM
My girl has 2767 hrs on the original longblock, only moving parts that have been changed were the timing chain. Valvoline Dino Oil everytime 10w30 changed twice a season. That is what the previous owner has done and I will keep doing. Boat purrs even my local marina near the lake was impressed.

Oil is oil in most cases, it comes down to how often you change it and how rough you are on your boat.

JTR

bigmac
10-16-2010, 06:01 AM
It would seem odd to me if these oil companies didn't know more about the lubrication needs of the mfgrs that they are marketing to. After all that is their business, lubrication.

Oil performance is spec'd by the engine mfgr. They send their requirements to the API which in turn issues a new service classification. The oil companies then formulate an oil to meet those performance specs. The oil companies arent marketing to the engine mfgr...they're marketing to you. You're much easier to fool.

Anyway, the oil companies aren't on the hook for engine warranty claims. If GM thought synthetic oil were best for your engine, they have millions of dollars at stake in making that a maintenance requirement. It isn't and they don't.

bigmac
10-16-2010, 06:04 AM
Oil is oil in most cases, it comes down to how often you change it and how rough you are on your boat.

JTR

Exactly.


^

Jesus_Freak
10-16-2010, 08:21 AM
Oil performance is spec'd by the engine mfgr. They send their requirements to the API which in turn issues a new service classification. The oil companies then formulate an oil to meet those performance specs. The oil companies arent marketing to the engine mfgr...they're marketing to you. You're much easier to fool.

Anyway, the oil companies aren't on the hook for engine warranty claims. If GM thought synthetic oil were best for your engine, they have millions of dollars at stake in making that a maintenance requirement. It isn't and they don't.

Excellent, distilled summary of the entire "what oil to use" discussion. Thanks.

bigmac
10-16-2010, 12:31 PM
Seriously, though....

Oil is indeed oil. If it meets the specs for the API service classification that the engine mfgrs requested, and they all do, then that oil is more than good enough. The only real advantage synthetics have over dino oil is shear stability, and since the advent of cat cracking (hydrogen iso-dewaxing, or catalytic refining) and the resultant Group II base stocks, there is little difference between modern oils and PAO-based synthetics. They tout extended drain intervals for synthetics, but synthetics have no more detergent capability than any other oil. Have you noticed that the car mfgrs used to recommend oil changes every 3000 miles, now recommend 6000 miles or more? That applies to synthetics too because synthetics have no more detergent capability than any other oil. 6000 miles is about as many times as you can take a bath in that bath water and still get clean.

Companies like to sell oil because it's big business. They have to refine a lot of oil because America runs on the light distillates. What are they going to do with the heavier base stocks? Well, they're going to make lubricants, and they have a lot to sell you, so it's a very competitive market. So they go get Billy Bob Barnum, famous NASCAR racer, to tell you that THEIR oil is the best. Well, in addition to the World Wrestling Federation, you're hooked on NASCAR (the two are equivalent IMHO), so of course you're going to believe Billy Bob and go buy the oil he recommends.

On the positive side, these synthetics are unlikely to actually cause damage to your engine. If you don't mind paying 2-3x more than you need to in order to get the same engine protection...no problem, as long as you don't mind playing sucker to the big oil companies. Most people don't believe that they are, and they can afford it, and it buys them peace of mind, so no problem. All needs of the market place are satisfied.

TX.X-30 fan
10-16-2010, 12:46 PM
Amsoil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bert
10-16-2010, 01:54 PM
Seriously, though....

On the positive side, these synthetics are unlikely to actually cause damage to your engine. If you don't mind paying 2-3x more than you need to in order to get the same engine protection...no problem, as long as you don't mind playing sucker to the big oil companies. Most people don't believe that they are, and they can afford it, and it buys them peace of mind, so no problem. All needs of the market place are satisfied.

My mercedes diesel engine calls for 15W 40 oil that meets MB 229.31 or MB 229.51 specification. Only oil I can find meeeting that is synthetic Mobil 1 ESP 5W 40. Haven't found a non synthetic meeting this spec. Seems a number of manufacturers specify synthetic and the vehicle comes filled with it. I hear what you are saying but.. 500000 miles on my cummins engine with no failures using the valvoline synthetic that Cummins reccomends seems to be money well spent to me.

bigmac
10-17-2010, 03:46 AM
Harley Davidson recommends their Harley-labeled synthetic oil too. And they'd like me to get it changed at a Harley Davidson dealer. Clever marketing tool. But...I do believe in following the mfg.'s recommendations, and I do use SYN3 in my Harley.

As to your Cummins...never underestimate the power of the anecdote. I'm sure it never would have gone that distance if you'd been using dino oil.:)

Like I said...there's nothing wrong with synthetic oil...it won't actually hurt anything. I use it myself in my John Deere yard tractor and I lubricate my hard-use pistols and rifles with Mobil 1 (or a synthetic/moly mix called "Machine Gunner's Lube). Using synthetic oil in my boat won't do any damage, just a pointless waste of money. But...it's not that much money, and if it makes me feel better to believe in Billy Bob the NASCAR shill...then it's money well spent. It doesn't, and I don't. YMMV.



.

ctjahn
10-17-2010, 08:24 AM
First post from new member that has been lurking and learning for about 6 months now and I really appreciate everyone sharing their knowledge about these wonderful boats.

I wanted to share something that I found today. I've been reading the board about the seemingly limited choices of motor oil available to us inboard owners. Automotive oils don't seem to be the best choice for these boats and marine oils are limited. After doing some searching I stumbled across and interesting option.

Joe Gibbs Racing has developed their own line of racing and performance motor oils. Here is a link to the website: http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/index.html
Although most of these are not applicable to our application (inboard engines), they do have a 15W-50 that was developed to specifically to protect old school engines (flat tappets, pushrods,high loads, etc.) that would benefit from oils with higher zinc and phosphorus content.

Has anyone used, or know of anyone that has used this this oil? Sounded interesting so I thought I'd share. I sent an email to their tech support asking about inboard applications. Here's my question to them and their response:

Hello,

I'm investigating the possibly using one of the JoeGibbsDriven oils in my MasterCraft ski boat. It is a 1996 model ProStar 205 that has a 5.7 GM inboard engine. These engines operate under under high load conditions and normally in the 2000 to 4500 (+/-) rpm range. They typically run at a low engine temperatures, anywhere from 140 to 160 degrees, depending on model and year of engine. Also, we winterize and store our boat approximately 4 to 5 months during the winter, so the corrosion protection of JGD that I've read about would be of importance to me.

I'm interested in your recommendation as to what JGD would be applicable for an engine of this type under these conditions? Thanks for your help !


Thanks for the email. I would recommend the 15W-50 Hot Rod Synthetic oil for your application. The high loads of boating requires extra viscosity to protect the engine. The rust protection of the Hot Rod oil is a benefit in a storage situation like yours.

Thanks,

Lake C. Speed, Jr.
Certified Lubrication Specialist
Joe Gibbs Racing
13415 Reese Blvd. W
Huntersville , NC 28078
704-239-4401 Cell
704-944-7538 Fax
lspeed@jgr18.com

+1 Joe Gibbs.

Used to use Mobil 1 until my racing friends told me it was reformulated due to enviormental pressures and regulations. I blew out a rear seal on the racecar at Road America during an SCCA National and virtually lost all my oil and the motor appeared to come out of it ok...when using Gibbs. Dyno results show less wear and better protection than CURRENT era mobil 1. Backed up by Elite Engines and personal experience.

They make both synthetic and semi synthetic.

$14 a quart is cheap in comparision to the time and effort to rebuild...I cant imagine the time and effort to pull the motor on one of these....I would rather spend the time on the water!

Although I only put one weekend on an oil change (YES VERY EXPENSIVE) in the racecar and then I reuse it in the Audi tt (now with 160,000), the Subaru (now with 130,000), and maybe now the boat (TT never burns a drop of oil even with high miles, driven hard, year round and put away wet)

Just my opinion...and experience.

cj

Bert
10-17-2010, 12:17 PM
Harley Davidson recommends their Harley-labeled synthetic oil too. And they'd like me to get it changed at a Harley Davidson dealer. Clever marketing tool. But...I do believe in following the mfg.'s recommendations, and I do use SYN3 in my Harley.

As to your Cummins...never underestimate the power of the anecdote. I'm sure it never would have gone that distance if you'd been using dino oil.:)

Like I said...there's nothing wrong with synthetic oil...it won't actually hurt anything. I use it myself in my John Deere yard tractor and I lubricate my hard-use pistols and rifles with Mobil 1 (or a synthetic/moly mix called "Machine Gunner's Lube). Using synthetic oil in my boat won't do any damage, just a pointless waste of money. But...it's not that much money, and if it makes me feel better to believe in Billy Bob the NASCAR shill...then it's money well spent. It doesn't, and I don't. YMMV.
.
Synthetic was recommended for my engine (mobil 1) by Indmar. Lifetime limited warranty if used. It's in my engine manual, likely not worth the paper it is written on. I am sure any oil that meets the API spec, won't hurt but for one oil change a year who cares what it costs.

ted shred
10-17-2010, 09:55 PM
IF it was as simple as "oil is oil" then we could say "boats are boats" and none of us would own Mastercrafts.

Jesus_Freak
10-19-2010, 01:02 PM
IF it was as simple as "oil is oil" then we could say "boats are boats" and none of us would own Mastercrafts.

Let me qualify Bigmac's statments (even though he can take care of himself): Oil is oil if all of it meets the required set of specifications.

A boat is a boat if all of them meet the desired specifications. Many on this forum have high expectations, so their specifications can only be met by a MasterCraft. ;)

03geetee
10-19-2010, 01:36 PM
I love this thread.

JTR

gwcinut
10-19-2010, 10:56 PM
I love reading this thread too!!!!

I will share my GM oil experience. My 07 escalade 6.2, I took it to the dealer for oil changes until the warranty ran out, they always advised me not to run synthetic, they tried telling me that it would change something with the seals and start to leak....I called B.S..... Warranty expired...I changed to synthetic....now it leaks, my driveway is growing oil polka dots!

Fasteddie
10-21-2010, 03:02 PM
I've been using Lubriplate Super GPO 15W-40 for a couple of years. Lots of ZDDP for the flat tappets. Costs $69.11/case shipped last time I ordered.

DooSPX
10-21-2010, 03:24 PM
I love reading this thread too!!!!

I will share my GM oil experience. My 07 escalade 6.2, I took it to the dealer for oil changes until the warranty ran out, they always advised me not to run synthetic, they tried telling me that it would change something with the seals and start to leak....I called B.S..... Warranty expired...I changed to synthetic....now it leaks, my driveway is growing oil polka dots!

thats crap... the LS3's (6.2L) in the C6's recommend Mobil 1 synthetic and do not leak. (if it leaks, its a manufacturing defect.)
I use 5W 30 syn. in my 05 cobalt 2.4L and 5W 30 syn. in my 5.3L truck both have 50K and never used or leaked a drop. I switched to fully synthetic at 3K miles on each. did I mention I broke my truck in on the drag strip? starting racing it with 500 miles on it up till 35K, it also is the tow rig and hauler for 3000 mile round trip- trips every year. Purrs like a kitten and 42lbs of pressure at idle hot.
But I have to state that if the oil meets the req. API spec's then oil is oil. I just use synthetic because it is what I have used for many years. ran 10W 30 RP synthetic oil in my old 500RWHP LS1 for 70K.
also used mobil 1 in my 84 BMW 2.7L I6 for up to 120K.
Im my time with Drag Racing and Road Racing, most builders recommend a High Performance Synthetic oil. my guess is its easier to find synthetic formula for the high temp. and RPM breakdown points. Do not know the real reason for sure though.
My boat, Rottella 15W 40

Bouyhead
10-21-2010, 04:08 PM
I love this thread.

JTR


I love/hate this thread and all threads concerning oil. I read all of them.

96 PS 190 275 TBI engine 2000+ hours. I ran Mobil 1 after the intial break in period.
At 1600 hours the salt takes it toll & I have water in cylinder #3 Tear down engine, get
rebuilt heads,new intake, and a bare block. Re-use everthing but timing chain & pistons( had to go .030 over) Inside of motor was SPOTLESS! Was it the Mobil 1 or the regular scheduled
maintenance? After reading all the threads it's probably the regular maintenance.

2000+ hours is about 27 oil changes at 75 hour intervals. ( yeah I know they say 50)
The difference between dino & Mobil 1 is about $600 over 27 oil changes. That's a chunk
of cheddar! So thanks to bigmac and all the other proponents of dino oil I'm convinced
I threw away 600 clams. Have I learned my lesson? Nah. Next week when i winterize I'll walk
right past the $3 dollar a Qt. oil and grab the Mobil 1.


End of rant.

Bert
10-23-2010, 12:07 PM
I love reading this thread too!!!!

I will share my GM oil experience. My 07 escalade 6.2, I took it to the dealer for oil changes until the warranty ran out, they always advised me not to run synthetic, they tried telling me that it would change something with the seals and start to leak....I called B.S..... Warranty expired...I changed to synthetic....now it leaks, my driveway is growing oil polka dots!

Run synthetic in all my vehicles, not a leak in any of them but none of them are GM:D
Owned a few GM's and they all had issues.

DooSPX
10-23-2010, 12:40 PM
Owned all GM and none had engine issues... though many stupid issues like power windows and locks... :mad:
My buddy just traded his 06 C6 for a 2010 C6 GS, and his LS3 used a quart from day one (came from GM with Mobil 1)
The dealer from where it was purchased said its considered normal for a quart per 5K, I told him he was a tool... took the vette to another dealer to got it fixed. thats the first engine issue that I, my family or good friends have ever had with a GM engine.
I scattered a LS1 once, but thats what stock rods and rod bolts will do with a 7000 rpm shift w/ a 175 shot. :D I was actually more surprised the tranny held.... lol
never had an oil related failure though! :)
Though when I was racing the oil was changed after a few days at the track... that has A LOT to do with it.

my break down of GM!
Engines- best American made IMO (313rwhp STOCK and 30mpg in a 3600lb car= AWESOME) Strong if you are not stupid, including lots of racing I did.
Car= Good styling on most lines, CRAPPY leather, or interior electronics stinks about 80% of the time too

Footin
10-23-2010, 12:54 PM
I run Mobil1 in the boat and my Chevy Trailblazer. The Chevy get an oil change every 10k and it does seem to use one quart during that time; however it does have a 7 quart oil pan.
No leaks yet and it has 123k on the clock.

DooSPX
10-23-2010, 03:34 PM
I run Mobil1 in the boat and my Chevy Trailblazer. The Chevy get an oil change every 10k and it does seem to use one quart during that time; however it does have a 7 quart oil pan.
No leaks yet and it has 123k on the clock.

10,000 miles?????????? wow man... I do not care what the factory says the oil life interval is... That is a lot on an oil change. I would guess it would burn through a quart every 10K!!! a lot going through the PCV and im sure getting burned by the combustion as well.
My cars have the oil life display on the Driver Info Center, yet I never go by those... My oil gets changed at 5K MAX, normally 3K...

The one hype I would never buy into with synthetics is 10K PLUS between services... thats crazy to me.
try changing the oil at 5K and see how much if any it uses?

amcmac
11-01-2010, 07:10 AM
Syn or dino, it don't matter. I have looked at walmart and oreilly's. The only 15W40 I can find is the house brand or Rotella. What brands are out there available in 15W40 and where do you get it for my RTP-1?

russlars
11-01-2010, 09:55 AM
The only place I have been able to find Pennzoil 15W40 Marine oil is at West Marine sold in gallon containers. This is the brand and viscosity recommended for my engine so I just stick with it.

bigmac
11-01-2010, 10:21 AM
The brand of oil is irrelevant. Nothing magic about Pennzoil, it's just that Indmar has a marketing agreement with them to put Pennzoil stickers all over the engine.

thatsmrmastercraft
11-01-2010, 10:55 AM
I run Mobil1 in the boat and my Chevy Trailblazer. The Chevy get an oil change every 10k and it does seem to use one quart during that time; however it does have a 7 quart oil pan.
No leaks yet and it has 123k on the clock.

What oil filter are you using? Curious as I wasn't aware that there are any on the market that will last that long. Also wondering how long it takes you to get to that 10k mark.

cbryan70
11-01-2010, 11:08 AM
im just curious how a car uses more oil if the oil is in longer......wouldnt the vehicle burn the same amount of oil changing it every 1000 or every 10k? it is just more noticable in the long run?

thatsmrmastercraft
11-01-2010, 11:10 AM
im just curious how a car uses more oil if the oil is in longer......wouldnt the vehicle burn the same amount of oil changing it every 1000 or every 10k? it is just more noticable in the long run?

The change comes about due to the increasing level of impurities that are in the oil. More miles/hours = more impurities.

rjracin240
11-01-2010, 12:13 PM
The change comes about due to the increasing level of impurities that are in the oil. More miles/hours = more impurities.

I change the Mobil 1 out on my Nissan Frontier every 3,000 miles, it comes out black as asphalt. The same was true with my 2002 Xterra both vehicles I bought brand new. My friends Corvette when he changes oil at 7K has oil that comes out with a lite tan to it.

Not sure if the black oil on the Nissan motors indicate they build the engines a little looser and they get a lot of carbon blow by. No noticable oil consumption between changes though!

Curious to know how dirty looking the guy's oil is that does the 10,000 mile intervals

thatsmrmastercraft
11-01-2010, 12:31 PM
I change the Mobil 1 out on my Nissan Frontier every 3,000 miles, it comes out black as asphalt. The same was true with my 2002 Xterra both vehicles I bought brand new. My friends Corvette when he changes oil at 7K has oil that comes out with a lite tan to it.

Not sure if the black oil on the Nissan motors indicate they build the engines a little looser and they get a lot of carbon blow by. No noticable oil consumption between changes though!

Curious to know how dirty looking the guy's oil is that does the 10,000 mile intervals

Typically on a new to moderate milage/hour engine, the color of your oil has as much to do with how well your ring end gaps were separated and how well you oil control ring was fitted as anything.

A relative bought a new mini-van a number of years ago. Not sure where he got the idea, but he ran Mobil 1 and changed the oil on his birthday. Somewhere around year 6 it was time for a new engine. And I think he averaged about 10K a year on it. He has since modified his oil changing habits.

ted shred
11-01-2010, 08:31 PM
Amsoil sells filters that last 25,000 miles on cars. I use one of these on my MC and their 15w40 marine diesel oil. I also use other weights in my other cars and trucks. I change them once a year, usually about 11,000 to 16,000. No leaks no problems.

thatsmrmastercraft
11-01-2010, 10:00 PM
Amsoil sells filters that last 25,000 miles on cars. I use one of these on my MC and their 15w40 marine diesel oil. I also use other weights in my other cars and trucks. I change them once a year, usually about 11,000 to 16,000. No leaks no problems.

Heck of a warranty:

AMSOIL INC. warrants each AMSOIL filter to be free from defect in material and workmanship during the period of service life recommended by AMSOIL INC. or the engine or equipment manufacturer. This warranty may not be extended to cover AMSOIL filters that have been improperly installed, abused, damaged or used in competitive racing or on equipment that has been modified using components other than those from AMSOIL or AMSOIL aftermarket partners. AMSOIL INC. does not make filter recommendations for aircraft or aviation applications and does not guarantee the performance of AMSOIL filters in such applications. If an AMSOIL filter is found to be defective in material or workmanship during the period of service life recommended by the engine or equipment manufacturer or per AMSOIL recommendations, AMSOIL will replace the defective filter with another AMSOIL filter or credit the customerís account. AMSOIL will reimburse the customer for reasonable costs of parts and labor required to repair the engine or equipment to the extent the damage was solely attributable to a defect in the AMSOIL filter.

DooSPX
11-02-2010, 08:59 AM
AMSOIL is great oil, but I cannot see changing oil that long apart...

thatsmrmastercraft
11-02-2010, 09:02 AM
AMSOIL is great oil, but I cannot see changing oil that long apart...

Agreed. Oil changes don't cost that much and just aren't that big a deal.

Kyle
11-02-2010, 11:37 AM
I say change sooner than that. Oil all starts out in the same place and it's up to sales people to market a product and make it appear better. This is about as bad as arguing over 87 89 or 93 octane fuel. You MAY see a performance difference if you are lucky but it all washes out in the end over price. One fuel burns longer than the other big deal. Gas is a cleaner and it all starts out in the same place.

I use regular 87 and use 10w40 for oil. I am religious on changing it on time.

thatsmrmastercraft
11-02-2010, 11:46 AM
I say change sooner than that. Oil all starts out in the same place and it's up to sales people to market a product and make it appear better. This is about as bad as arguing over 87 89 or 93 octane fuel. You MAY see a performance difference if you are lucky but it all washes out in the end over price. One fuel burns longer than the other big deal. Gas is a cleaner and it all starts out in the same place.

I use regular 87 and use 10w40 for oil. I am religious on changing it on time.

You are simplifying this way too far. To say that all gas and oil are equal is the same as saying you may as well eat the spleen from a cow instead of a fine Angus steak because the all all beef.

That being said, I have run Valvoline 10w40 for years without a problem, however I have since become more educated on the construction and differences in oil filters.

I have had enough cars with a need for octane that I won't run gas of too low an octane level. My boat is spec'ed to have 89 octane.........why would I run 87?

Kyle
11-03-2010, 12:04 PM
Please re-read my post. I never said that they are the same. They just start out in the same place.

As far as fuel my timing is set with 87 octane and I do not get any pinging or detonation. Therefore the octane will not matter a bit to me. I will not go any faster and it won't make my stereo system any louder if I use a higher octane. I also emphasized that you MAY see a difference. Also noted that the price you pay for fuel and oil will wash out in the end. This meaning that a higher price oil that say could be streched to 60-70 hours after 3 changes its gong to roughly be the same price as regular oil changed every 50hrs 4 or 5 times.
Some oils also have a higher zinc content. This is why I will continue to use rotella-t until my breakin is complete on my boat. Then I will probably use castrol 10-40

I use castrol 10-30 in my truck and have put over 200k on it. Most people don't even keep vehicles that long.

chico
11-06-2010, 10:16 AM
This is what I have been using for 8 years.http://www.pathfinderlubricants.ca/

chico
11-06-2010, 10:17 AM
Rycon1,slipperyest stuff ever.

bigmac
11-06-2010, 10:57 AM
Rycon1,slipperyest stuff ever.

PT Barnum strikes again.

TX.X-30 fan
11-06-2010, 01:16 PM
Was amsoil initially sold as space-age wagon wheel lube??

DooSPX
11-06-2010, 01:33 PM
Was amsoil initially sold as space-age wagon wheel lube??

:uglyhamme I am sure it was a lube of some kind! :uglyhamme :D

CantRepeat
11-06-2010, 01:51 PM
I say change sooner than that. Oil all starts out in the same place and it's up to sales people to market a product and make it appear better.

The second sentence seems that you are inferring that no oil is better then rest, it's up to the sales people to make it appear better. Regardless.

I'm sure marketing has a lot to do with what people think is better, but I would think there is a difference in the products sold. There's far to much research put into lubricates for them to all be the same.

bigmac
11-06-2010, 06:21 PM
... but I would think there is a difference in the products sold. There's far to much research put into lubricates for them to all be the same.

And again.....

CantRepeat
11-07-2010, 03:45 AM
And again.....

Yup, and I was born every minute. 8p

If I use your angle, why does Indmar say to you brand X? They must assume it's better for their product.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/

bigmac
11-07-2010, 09:24 AM
Yup, and I was born every minute. 8p

If I use your angle, why does Indmar say to you brand X? They must assume it's better for their product.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/

It's a simple marketing agreement. They know that Pennzoil is no better than any other 15W40 CI-4/SL oil out there and EVERYBODY knows that Pennzoil oil filters are bottom-of-the-barrel (repainted Frams) but Indmar gets a kickback from Pennzoil in exchange for slapping Pennzoil stickers all over their engines and transmissions. Likewise, they recommend Sta-Bil as a fuel conditions, when it's mostly likely that fuel conditioning is rarely needed, and Sta-Bil certainly isn't any better than the majority of fuel stabilizers out there. Judging by the number of posts I've seen here from MasterCraft owners all in a panic because they can't find Pennzoil, it must be a relatively effective marketing ploy.

This kind of marketing is a common practice, just like many electronics companies sell their stuff with some recommending DuraCell and some recommending EverReady as the best battery to use in their device.

CantRepeat
11-08-2010, 10:57 AM
It's a simple marketing agreement. They know that Pennzoil is no better than any other 15W40 CI-4/SL oil out there and EVERYBODY knows that Pennzoil oil filters are bottom-of-the-barrel (repainted Frams) but Indmar gets a kickback from Pennzoil in exchange for slapping Pennzoil stickers all over their engines and transmissions. Likewise, they recommend Sta-Bil as a fuel conditions, when it's mostly likely that fuel conditioning is rarely needed, and Sta-Bil certainly isn't any better than the majority of fuel stabilizers out there. Judging by the number of posts I've seen here from MasterCraft owners all in a panic because they can't find Pennzoil, it must be a relatively effective marketing ploy.

This kind of marketing is a common practice, just like many electronics companies sell their stuff with some recommending DuraCell and some recommending EverReady as the best battery to use in their device.

I agree companies get in bed with each other all the time.

Kyle
11-08-2010, 11:22 AM
So that is what makes their product better, even more slickery, and longer lasting without all of the break down and sludge.

I have torn down many of engines down and couldnt tell if synthetic or regular oil was used. Couldnt even tell if it was Oriley brand or Castrol, Pennsoil, Valvoline, or Mobile 1...
When I say torn down many of engines I mean at least 3 per week for at least 4 years..... I have seen tons of Cadillac Northstar engines that have been driven by some of you 65+ guys and some that look like a 16 year old got in there and raced the dog out of it. Now you can tell who drives and who putts around because one is a lot cleaner inside....

For those of you who dont request a certain oil at the dealership here is a little inside. There is house oil, that is a Pennsoil, Valvoline, Castrol, (non synthetic type oil). It is what the dealer can buy in bulk at the chepest price. Then you can choose a Mobile 1 for a upgrade. It is funny that maybe 3 per week requested mobile 1 and the rest of the 200+ oil changes the dealership did were HOUSE oil changes. Their engines did not last any longer or run any better choosing the different oil.

These types of boats are not RACE CARS. They are NOT high performance engines. You are not running 900 horse power. You may be running close to 385 and for some 500. Yes you are turning high rpm but if you change your oil and take pride in your boat then it will last. Change it on time and you can run the Valvoline, Pennsoil, Quakerstate, Castrol, Mobile 1, who cares.

This is like arguing over the color of your boat makes it go faster... If you dont believe me then call your dealer and ask them what house oil they use or the bulk oil they use. I guarantee that they dont buy 1000 gallons of Mobile 1. It is non synthetic and 10w40 most likely and you never knew. You just know that if Mastercraft dealer did it then it was the best and spit shined at the end to make it that much better.

Skipper
11-09-2010, 09:08 AM
But what it the package looks cooler than other packages? Doesn't that make it better? Or the commercials? Obviously the oil with the coolest commercials is the best oil. Sheesh. Thought you were up on all this stuff man.

hosofpayne
11-10-2010, 10:57 AM
Here's my 2 cents.....I have always takin care of my own cars and trucks. My 99 chevy 1500 has 194000 miles i change oil every 3500 miles. I purchase my oil from Farm and Fleet and I buy ANY brand of 10w-30 that is on sale. No leaks and only down half quart when i change it. Everyone has a angle on the topic but to me it is just simple......... change oil and filter on interval

bigmac
11-10-2010, 12:45 PM
But what it the package looks cooler than other packages? Doesn't that make it better? Or the commercials? Obviously the oil with the coolest commercials is the best oil. Sheesh. Thought you were up on all this stuff man.

Better yet is to get "Bubba", the current points leader in All-Star Wresting of the automotive world (NASCAR) to endorse the oil (as if he's ever touched an engine with a wrench.....).

TX.X-30 fan
11-10-2010, 02:25 PM
Is Minnesota void of "Bubba's" ??

TX.X-30 fan
11-10-2010, 02:26 PM
Is the 'O' in MinnesOta a long O??

Bert
11-10-2010, 08:14 PM
Here's my 2 cents.....I have always takin care of my own cars and trucks. My 99 chevy 1500 has 194000 miles i change oil every 3500 miles. I purchase my oil from Farm and Fleet and I buy ANY brand of 10w-30 that is on sale. No leaks and only down half quart when i change it. Everyone has a angle on the topic but to me it is just simple......... change oil and filter on interval

That is the secret and as you stated you choose whatever brand you want or prefer... but if you come on here and share which brand you like some self proclaimed "oil expert" will be sure to comment. Makes for some entertainment reading the "oil experts" quest to be recognized.

vision
11-10-2010, 08:44 PM
I assume that by definition, oils of a given class/weight/API standard have met the same requirements for viscosity and flow and various temperatures.

Out of curiosity, are all oils with a given API standard also tested after various hours of use to see how well they maintain their properties? As part of the oil standardization, are the oils in the same category tested for equivalent metal wear over time in some std engine model?

Willski
04-04-2011, 10:31 PM
okay...I'm gonna stir this up again. I bought my current boat late last year, and am just about ready to do my first oil change.

My manual says SAE 15W40 oil, rated at SJ/CH4. Not having done any research yet (on the SJ/CH4 rating), I am just curious if this is a common automotive rating, or is it something special?

On the old boat '84. I used Valvoline 10W40 (even though it called for 10W30). 1600+ hours, no problems and it never used a drop.

FrankSchwab
04-05-2011, 01:56 AM
SJ is a common automotive gasoline engine rating, introduced in 2001. The current version of the standard is SM.

CH4 is a diesel engine rating, introduced in 1998. The current version of the standard is CI4.

Information from the American Petroleum Institute (http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/API.html).

Most 15w-40 oils are generally aimed at Diesel engines, but are fine for gasoline engines also. I'm partial to Rotella-T because it's easy to get, but Delo and Pennzoil are also said to be good.

/frank

Thrall
04-05-2011, 12:56 PM
willski, I typically used 10W40 in my LT-1 because that's what I used in my trucks at the time. Now I use 15W40 in the MCX because thats what I use in my truck now (diesel). Either will be fine.
If you go 15W40 as reccomended, that's what the trans takes as well and 2 gal is just about right for an oil change on a small block with enough left over to suck out the trans fluid and refill it.

Willski
04-05-2011, 01:56 PM
willski, I typically used 10W40 in my LT-1 because that's what I used in my trucks at the time. Now I use 15W40 in the MCX because thats what I use in my truck now (diesel). Either will be fine.
If you go 15W40 as reccomended, that's what the trans takes as well and 2 gal is just about right for an oil change on a small block with enough left over to suck out the trans fluid and refill it.

Cool. thanks.