Question for you longline back barefooters?

[jkski]

OK, so I have mastered getting up backwards on the shortline/boom but the longline is giving me fits. I have successfully gotten it a few times but consistency is not there at all, so I need some advice.
One of the major issues I am having is that everytime I manage to get my feet planted nicely and the boat accelerates, I start to drive my chest down and the next thing I know I am crossing the wake on my chin and feet. Everytime it seems as though I pull to the starboard side wake but truthfully I have no frickin' clue where I am and when one foot goes across the wake and drops down it is all over.
Another issue seems to be a good consistent way for my driver to pull me up. I am trying to have them accelerate slow enough to avoid kicking a stern roller but it almost seems to slow. So in my attempts this past weekend I had them accelerate quicker and it seemed to go better......so what is the right way.
For what it is worth I am being pulled by a PS197 off of a Fly-High.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[CoFooter]

I've personally never seen what you are describing happen to anyone that I have skiied with when they were learning but if I had to guess, you're plant is not consistent between both of your feet. You're either planting one foot too deep, too early which is pulling you sideways, or you are pushing on one of your feet (gas pedaling) more than the other trying to get up. When I get up behind the boat I think "crank my toes/feet towards my shins" so I don't inadvertently gas pedal which will not allow you to get a good plant and causes bouncing. Try to conciously (not passively) crank those feet/toes toward the shins and see if that helps. Its not nearly as critical on the short line as the short line masks a lot of bad habits that you can't get away with long line.
As far as speed I like slow over the rollers, and then once I get my plant, fast, consistent pull up to speed. Some people like fast out of the hole and are not bothered by the rollers. All a matter of personal preference, no one way is right or wrong.

Let us know how it goes.

[atlfootr]

Having a skylon or tower vs. no skylon (low plyon only) will certainly help you come up longline behind the boat, assisting in the "upward pull or lift" allowing you to stand a little easiser :twocents: Have someone video tape yourself, so that we can see what your doing wrong or right.

Lastly, take a couple day lessons w / Keith here in :) :) Florida!

[Footin]

Hey Jeff, are you setting your feet (or ankles) on the water at the same time with the same pressure? Sound like the left side maybe touching first.

[jkski]

I will try to shoot some video on the next outing but I can undoubtedly say that I am placing one foot in slightly ahead of the other but I am typically able to balance it out quickly. As was pointed out, I can get away with this on the boom and simple muscle my way thru it but the longline has got my number and is letting me know it. I just have a tendancy to place my right foot first as I am taking my left off the line, again, not by much but I must then be placing my left foot heavily and driving off of that which is pushing me out.

I would love to get in some lessons with Keith as he is a great guy but time and money are 2 things that just do not seem to be available right now for me to make it happen, so I will rely on the expertise of you guys to get me on the right path.
Your help and advice is much appreciated.

[kyfooter]

JSKI,

You're issue is not all that uncommon. I've seen this quite a bit with footers. A few thoughts. First, while the Fly High will help with the upward pull, it's not necessary. Ordinary tower height is plenty. The Fly High is likely creating a larger stern roller because of the initial pull being from so high...the boat has to push a little harder to bring the nose down and plain out. Try dropping the tower pull and using shoe skis. Also try extending your line a little off the boom to help give a more realistic pull, and even lowering the boom.

Another thing to try is extending your arms all the way. Generally if you're heading out one side, you're pulling more with one arm or you're planing one foot wider than the other. Ensuring that your arms are straight, and each hand is at the same point on your butt should take the "pulling" arm out of the equation.

There is no right/wrong way to pull a back deep. It's mostly personal preference. Biggest thing is to have your driver giving a consistent pull. I personally prefer medium/medium/fast. Medium initial pull, medium through the roller into my plant, and fast acceleration to speed once I plant.

As suggested earlier, video is a great way to learn what needs correction. Be patient behind the boat. Certainly can't get away with mistakes we make on the boom but ski through...that's why we love the boom and why the Fly High was invented! If we all had to ski off a traditional pylon, there would be fewer footers! That being said, use what's available and have fun. Perfect your start with shoe skis and drop the boom some and concentrate on proper body position.

[jkski]

Quick update:
We headed out on Saturday morning and when I pulled out of my garage the temp gauge in my truck read "ICE"....35 degrees that morning and we got up to a whopping 38 degrees before we got in the water.
So, as you guys stated it was all a matter of too much pressure on one foot. First attempt I actually crossed the wake on my chest and feet and nearly stuck it but dug one foot in a bit too hard and spun out. 2nd and third attempts I concentrated on trying to overcompensate by putting a lot of pressure on my right foot (I was always going out the passenger side wake), and I stayed fairly well centered and very comfortable. Got up a couple of times but really fighting it more than I think I should be. When I watch the tape my feet are damn near touching my ears while planing and I am not a gymnast or double jointed (OK not really but they are wide). So, I get to a point where I start to drive my chest down and try to bring the hips up off the water but should I also be bringing my feet in at that point. I realize that tape would help but I am not that savy on loading video.
Long story short, the plant is now solid and I am just having issue driving the hips off the water to get standing, could it be because my feet are spread too wide?

Thanks again for all of the help.

[CoFooter]

Congrats on getting the planing down. Yes, if you plant with a really wide stance you need to concentrate on bringing the feet together in order to get your butt up. Or try to start out with a narrower plant (shoulder width is plenty). This is the toughest part of long line because you don't have the leverage of the boom. One thing that helped me a lot in learning was shortening the rope to about 50 ft to get more upward pull. Sounds like your getting there, from this point its just lots of miles to get it down. Good luck.

[jkski]

Thanks again for the advice, I will have this dialed in by next weekend. I am finding that I like the faster pull-up as I am not a patient person and if I just muscle my way through the plant and sternroller, I am good to go!
Thanks again, your help is greatly appreciated.

[captain planet]

Congrats Jeff. I must say I'm a little jealous though. I haven't even tried long line back yet. I think next summer I may start giving it a try as I can get up pretty consistantly on the boom. I have a skylon but am hesitant to foot from it. When we go front long line, we just go from the pylon. I feel that footing from a skylon is cheating. I know, sounds dumb....maybe I'm just old school. The feeling of "that's how we did it when we were growing up, this new stuff is cheating" is how I look at it.

BTW, if you hear of any footin' clinics next summer in the area, let me know. I'll be in and I'm sure Craig would also want to take another one.

[LakeWorth]

I am not qualified to offer you any advice except that here is where I go for barefoot help:

http://www.thefootersedge.com/thefootersedge/equipment/articles_listed.html

Lane "Dawg" Bowers has put a bunch of information on his website. I have found it very helpful.

[jkski]

I will checkout that link, thanks for the advice.
One other question, how much faster do you find yourself going longline as opposed to boom? On the boom, 35mph seems to be very comfortable and I bumped up to 37mph longline but have not made enough runs yet to see if I need more or less.
Thoughts?

Thanks again.

[CoFooter]

I would not worry about speed right now. You need to be thinking about getting the feet together, bending at the knees a bit, and getting into a solid, comfortable back barefoot position. I would tell your driver to level off the speed once he sees your butt coming up off the water and keep it their until you are comfortable and are ready for the next step. Its really easy at this point to get pulled out the back as you are progressing and the slower speed helps a lot in building confidence. Once you are comfortable start trying to steer around a little by shifting the handle from one butt cheek to the other.

[barefoot]

I'm leaning back longlines as well.

I'm having trouble with the transition from sliding to standing. I have a solid plant, a good trough for breathing, and have good touch and chest contact. When the boat is accelerating, I try not to rush things, but find myself really struggling to stand when the boat is up to speed. The times when I'm up and backwards, I can relax and enjoy the ride. But it's that time when I'm driving my chest before I'm standing that's doesn't feel natural.

Any suggestions?

[jkski]

For what it is worth from a friend who is in the same place, I have found that a faster pull-up is helping me a lot. Like you, that period of time when you are driving your chest down seems to be the critical point and I find that the faster I get thru it the better-off I feel. So, I have my driver accelerate rather quickly once my feet are on the water leaving me with a pretty short period of time when I am actually on my chest.
Moral of the story, maybe try a quicker acceleration (keep in mind that I am learning as well and there are a lot of people here who have helped me get this far so trust in their advice).
Good luck.

[CoFooter]

I'm leaning back longlines as well.

I'm having trouble with the transition from sliding to standing. I have a solid plant, a good trough for breathing, and have good touch and chest contact. When the boat is accelerating, I try not to rush things, but find myself really struggling to stand when the boat is up to speed. The times when I'm up and backwards, I can relax and enjoy the ride. But it's that time when I'm driving my chest before I'm standing that's doesn't feel natural.

Any suggestions?

Its tough because you don't have the leverage of the boom you are used to. The butt needs to come up first. Push down on the chest and lift your butt by bending at the waist.

Try shortening the rope to about 50ft or adding a 15 ft section to your 5ft rope on the boom. Helps a lot with getting used to a lower angle of pull.

Good luck