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titleist93mc
09-17-2010, 11:24 AM
This is my first winter with the boat and I am just wondering if I should go by the manual and just drain everything the best I can and leave loose, or to button back up and pour in the RV antifreeze. I am in N. GA and the boat will be in the garage all winter and temps may get below freezing in there - but not many times I hope. I tend to be a more "better safe than sorry" type of person - but just wanted some opinions. I know they will range, lol. Also, I have the 351 HO with the gt-40 heads and the powerslot tranny. Love this combo. Also - is it entirely necessasary to pull the prop or should I just leave on. Thanks in advance!

JD

thatsmrmastercraft
09-17-2010, 12:49 PM
Congrats on a great sounding boat. Winterizing choices are easy for me since winters in Minnesota don't allow for any shortcuts. Even for you, why risk not spending $10 on three gallons of RV antifreeze and run it through your system. Not too many guys ever wish they had never winterized their engine too well.

CantRepeat
09-17-2010, 02:09 PM
What is the main difference in RV vs auto antifreeze?

CantRepeat
09-17-2010, 02:10 PM
This is my first winter with the boat and I am just wondering if I should go by the manual and just drain everything the best I can and leave loose, or to button back up and pour in the RV antifreeze. I am in N. GA and the boat will be in the garage all winter and temps may get below freezing in there - but not many times I hope. I tend to be a more "better safe than sorry" type of person - but just wanted some opinions. I know they will range, lol. Also, I have the 351 HO with the gt-40 heads and the powerslot tranny. Love this combo. Also - is it entirely necessasary to pull the prop or should I just leave on. Thanks in advance!

JD


I drained my block, manifolds and pulled my impeller one year and still pushed out a freeze plug. I always use antifreeze now, but I've only ever used auto antifreeze.

turn1andburn1
09-17-2010, 02:11 PM
What is the main difference in RV vs auto antifreeze?

I think its more enviromentaly friendly????

titleist93mc
09-17-2010, 02:18 PM
Yes - I have been reading all day and consensus seems to be that RV antifreeze or better yet, marine antifreeze is environmentally friendly and that some have rust inhibitors and such.

Anyway - I don't plan on putting antifreeze in the bucket and sucking it up - plan on taking the uptake hose loose, elevating above the engine and pouring in 3 gals or so. Would this be the best method - or should I take the lines coming off the impeller loose and pour into the block and also into the manifolds?

Anyone have a guesstimate (or actual) amount that they use?

Thanks.

JD

flipper
09-17-2010, 02:23 PM
Yes - I have been reading all day and consensus seems to be that RV antifreeze or better yet, marine antifreeze is environmentally friendly and that some have rust inhibitors and such.

Anyway - I don't plan on putting antifreeze in the bucket and sucking it up - plan on taking the uptake hose loose, elevating above the engine and pouring in 3 gals or so. Would this be the best method - or should I take the lines coming off the impeller loose and pour into the block and also into the manifolds?

Anyone have a guesstimate (or actual) amount that they use?

Thanks.

JD

It won't do you much good if the t-stat is closed. When you drain the block, take the petcock all the way out. They tend to plug up not letting all the water out of the block raising hell in the winter time. Take them out and leave them out 'til next year.

east tx skier
09-17-2010, 02:26 PM
I do it for whatever corrosion protection it may offer. Cheap and easy.

ccelia
09-17-2010, 02:28 PM
Are you already winterizing in Georgia?

Definitely run some anti-freeze through it, takes a few minutes and it is quick insurance to keep the block safe during the winter.

I think I picked up three gallons last year and had a little left over in the bucket. Hope that helps.

Good luck with the winterizing. There is a great checklist in the FAQ section with a supply list for winterization that walks you through the process.

titleist93mc
09-17-2010, 02:35 PM
Yes - sadly our lake starts doing the backwards slide around this time of year. I dont want to show up and see my ride sloping downward with the prop struggling to get traction among the mud and rocks.

So you guys think the best way is to get a 5 gal bucket and dump antifreeze in there and then suck it up with the uptake hose until it comes out the exhaust? Anyone have any pictures of the process?

Sorry - just a little nervous on the first winterizing - want to make sure to do things right and take good care of her - want her to last a long time. (Only 450 hrs on the clock - not bad for a 93).

JD

flipper
09-17-2010, 02:41 PM
Warm you boat up all the way. If you do it cold the thermostat won't be open for sure. Really, you should pull the t-stat out to me sure the antifreeze gets in the block. Otherwise, if the t-stat is closed it will go in and strait out the exhaust and do you no good at all. Pulling it out is the only sure way you'll know there is antifreeze where you need it. After that, yes. 5 gallon bucket until it comes out the exhaust catching it in buckets so you don't get busted. Search around, there are a few threads on how people do it.

flipper
09-17-2010, 02:43 PM
After that, I'd STILL drain the water and anti freeze out of the block to be safe, but that's just me.

titleist93mc
09-17-2010, 02:48 PM
So what you are saying is that you would not leave anything in the block or manifolds - save for a little antifreeze that may not have completely drained out? I thought the idea was to leave the antifreeze in the block and manifolds for the winter.

Please pardon my questions as I am just trying to do this correctly for my application. I am not really worried about freezing temps, but just staying on the safer side.

JD

flipper
09-17-2010, 02:53 PM
My way of thinking, the antifreeze that gets left in there will keep what in there from freezing. When you drain everything, not everything comes out. Also, the antifreeze will have been there, so everything should have got a good coat to protect the inside from rust and what ever antifreeze is supposed to protect against. But, should the antifreeze NOT get everywhere for some reason, it's drained and you should be okay. Just double protecting yourself. Doesn't mean I'm right at all, but that's my take on it.

JDK
09-17-2010, 02:53 PM
What is the main difference in RV vs auto antifreeze?

Automotive anti-freeze is EXTREMELY toxic to your lake when you start up in your lake next spring, even if you flush with water in the spring.
DON'T use it to winterize.... ever.

Footin
09-17-2010, 03:15 PM
Drain the block and manifolds, then pull the hose off the water pump and dump in about a quart of antifreeze until it comes out the plugs that you left out of the block.

Then dump a few cups of antifreeze down each cooling hose connected to the manifolds.

Leave all hoses off and plugs out, pat it on the butt and say night, night for winter.

titleist93mc
09-17-2010, 03:21 PM
I like that syle Footin. Think I will go with that method - seems like the easiest and makes most sense. Thanks to all for the info as well.

JD

thatsmrmastercraft
09-17-2010, 03:43 PM
Yes - sadly our lake starts doing the backwards slide around this time of year. I dont want to show up and see my ride sloping downward with the prop struggling to get traction among the mud and rocks.

So you guys think the best way is to get a 5 gal bucket and dump antifreeze in there and then suck it up with the uptake hose until it comes out the exhaust? Anyone have any pictures of the process?

Sorry - just a little nervous on the first winterizing - want to make sure to do things right and take good care of her - want her to last a long time. (Only 450 hrs on the clock - not bad for a 93).

JD

You can thank JimN for me having this set-up. I used to remove the hose from the trans cooler and use that as the hose going in to the bucket, but have since picked up a dedicated line to hook up to the raw water pump.

Garden hose is removed for winterizing once the engine is warmed up.

CantRepeat
09-18-2010, 07:13 AM
JD, one other thing I do on the colder nights, say in the freezing temp range is put a 40 watt light bulb in a mechanices drop light in the bilge just under the engine. I've never had an issue between the light and the anti freeze.

Cloaked
09-18-2010, 07:47 AM
I like that syle Footin. Think I will go with that method - seems like the easiest and makes most sense. Thanks to all for the info as well.

JD
http://skidim.com/products.asp?dept=1044


.

woobiedmd
09-18-2010, 08:40 AM
How long should it take to suck up the anti-freeze? For some reason last year it took almost ten minutes before I saw the pink stuff coming out the exhaust.

MattsCraft
09-18-2010, 09:10 AM
'09, X2, MCX. With heater. The first year I used the run up to temp method, drain the block, and then run on -100 RV (Green) anti-freeze, diluted 50%, so effectively -50 using a fake-a-lake on the raw water intake. Not a great method because of poor connection, leaking etc. I did not, drain after running on anti-freeze. No problems with freeze etc. 5 Gallons total.

Last year, I installed a perko flush Kit, besides all of the bad comments here, love this thing! I used the same method, -100, diluted to 50%, run up to temp, drain the block and run 5 gallons via the perko, goes really fast!!! No problems with freeze etc. 5 Gallons total.

So my question has always been with the time it takes after running up to temp, removing the plugs takes about 5 minutes or so. How long does it take for the thermostat to close??? Am I really getting anti-freeze everywhere using this method?

So here is what I am thinking of doing this year... Run up to temp, Do Not Drain, then run on -100 without diluting, , and then draining the system after. Effectively, this would give you at least -50 protection or better would it not? Insurance that the thermostat is still open and draining to ensure most of the water/antifreeze is out etc. I will probably use about 7 gallons just to make sure I have enough. This is a little more expensive, but a heck of a lot easier. PS, I found -100 @ O’Riley’s auto parts for $8/gallon.

CiscoStu
09-18-2010, 10:43 AM
Mattscraft - you could take the thermostat out before you do it, just to make sure the AF is getting everywhere. Then as part of summarization, put it back in.

I like the method where you use the hose to suck up the AF in a bucket, and catch it again when it leaves the exhaust... There was a procedure for that posted at some point, but I can't seem to find it. IIRC, it was a little tricky, but if you knew the trick it would work great.

WinterFlush also provides a method that looks like it would be easy to duplicate with a poly tarp...: www.winterflush.com. Looks like it takes less than 2 gallons to do it this way.

That way, you could probably get by with about 4 gallons, and keep recycling it through the motor. Bring it up to temp that way too. Only thing is, don't start catching it until all the water is out (or drain the water first), or you will be diluting it...

You could also make sure the heater lines are protected - turn the heater valve on and let AF recirc through the heater core too.

RMUDBUGS
09-18-2010, 03:03 PM
I wonder if the pump will provide enough water/anti-freeze to the motor? I used a 5 gallon bucket and a water hose last year and the hose could not keep up. The motor would empty the bucket in a matter of a few minutes even with the water hose on to refill it. We would have to run it for a few minutes then stop and let the bucket refill.

titleist93mc
09-20-2010, 10:05 AM
Well I got the boat winterized this weekend. I kind of combined all the thoughts comments on here and adapted my own method. I ran boat up to temp, changed oil etc. Then I took hose from trans cooler to motor loose and raised above engine - attached a funnel to that and proceded to run through 3 gal. of -50 RV antifreeze. Saw it coming out exhaust a little pinkish. I did not drain block before this - felt that 3 gals would push most water out of block and if not - then at least there was some antifreeze mixed in. Fogged the carb until it smoked and then shut her down. Waited a few min and then removed all plugs (manifolds and block). let it drain as much as it would and then let bilge etc dry in sun for a while. Then pushed her back in garage for hibernation. Only thing I haven't done is spin on water filter - will do that next time I make it to the lake.

Once again - thanks for all the comments/advice - it was a great help! Other winter project is adding some tunes. Is it spring yet?

JD

east tx skier
09-20-2010, 12:14 PM
If it were me, I would be a bit concerned about having diluted rv antifreeze in there from not draining first.

johny123
09-20-2010, 12:41 PM
if you suck antifreeze up the intake hose (when up to temp) until it comes out exhaust for a minute, is it still necessary to pull plugs/hoses?

east tx skier
09-20-2010, 02:55 PM
If you are talking about RV antifreeze, there is surely a certain point where what is coming out of the exhaust will not be diluted (assuming you didn't drain beforehand). I'm not sure when that point is timewise. But it probably involves buying more antifreeze than draining the block and exhaust manifolds and pouring the AF in by hand. I'm cheap.

TX.X-30 fan
09-20-2010, 07:42 PM
Automotive anti-freeze is EXTREMELY toxic to your lake when you start up in your lake next spring, even if you flush with water in the spring.
DON'T use it to winterize.... ever.




You are joking right................................ :D

johny123
09-21-2010, 08:39 AM
alright so if i want to drain a 350 predator, 2000 PS195, I would have

two plugs? one on either side, does the knock sensor cover one of them?
then two plugs behind the exhaust manifolds?


drain those 4, suck antifreeze through the intake and that's enough?


anyone have a picture of the plugs?

1redTA
09-21-2010, 11:49 AM
Like most, I drain the engine of all water thru the plugs and various hoses and help by turning the engine over by hand. I also pull the impeller and thermostat. Then, I reconnect all the hoses and use the hoses to the manifolds and fill up with rv/boat antifreeze also looking for any low spots to fill with AF. When I see the AF running thru a plug I recap it to keep the antifreeze in the engine.

It reads in some of these post as if some of you run the AF thru the motor to flush water out? I figured leaving the internals "dry" would result in some rusting of the engine? I am not trying to start a debate over leaving the AF in the motor just looking at all avenues of approach ;-)

thatsmrmastercraft
09-21-2010, 12:47 PM
Like most, I drain the engine of all water thru the plugs and various hoses and help by turning the engine over by hand. I also pull the impeller and thermostat. Then, I reconnect all the hoses and use the hoses to the manifolds and fill up with rv/boat antifreeze also looking for any low spots to fill with AF. When I see the AF running thru a plug I recap it to keep the antifreeze in the engine.

It reads in some of these post as if some of you run the AF thru the motor to flush water out? I figured leaving the internals "dry" would result in some rusting of the engine? I am not trying to start a debate over leaving the AF in the motor just looking at all avenues of approach ;-)

My version is similar. I drain and refill as you do but I warm the engine up completely first. Then once I have filled it with RV antifreeze, I start it with a hose and a funnel connected to the raw water pump and pour a couple gallons more RV through the engine. The first water to come out isn't as pink as after it runs for a couple minutes. Then I drain as much RV antifreeze out as possible. Cold enough here that I rather risk a little corrosion over a little freezing. While I am running the engine, I collect as much of the RV antifreeze as possible. I check it as some of it can be reused if it isn't too diluted. Just my version.

Footin
09-23-2010, 05:31 PM
Maybe a dumb idea, but what if you ran windshild washer fluid through the motor? This stuff is .99 a gallon and will not freeze (I don't think).

I saw it on sale at the gas station the other day and it got me thinking.......since I drain it all anyway, would it work?

thatsmrmastercraft
09-23-2010, 05:37 PM
No rust inhibiting additives aside from the fact that it will freeze. At $3 a gallon, why try to compromise?

east tx skier
09-23-2010, 05:39 PM
Just to open up another part of the debate again, at least as is my understanding of my PCM engine, there is a bypass on the thermostat. So even if the engine has not warmed up and the tstat has not opened up, you can still pour antifreeze in through the intake hose.

Cloaked
09-23-2010, 09:07 PM
Just to open up another part of the debate again, at least as is my understanding of my PCM engine, there is a bypass on the thermostat. So even if the engine has not warmed up and the tstat has not opened up, you can still pour antifreeze in through the intake hose.
Correct. There lies the other thAng. Unless I am mistaken from a bad dream, the marine thermostat has three small holes to allow seepage regardless of position. Fluid can move through the weep holes until the valve further opens. Automotive thermostats do not have this function.

thatsmrmastercraft
09-23-2010, 09:58 PM
Correct. There lies the other thAng. Unless I am mistaken from a bad dream, the marine thermostat has three small holes to allow seepage regardless of position. Fluid can move through the weep holes until the valve further opens. Automotive thermostats do not have this function.

These three small holes won't allow enough antifreeze to get through unless you plan to spend all afternoon letting it trickle through. Much simpler to warm up the engine properly. While it may take a bit of effort to run the engine long enough to reach operating temperature at idle with cold hose water and cool ambient temperature, make heat soak be your friend. Start the engine, run for a few minutes and shut it off for a few minutes. Do this a few times in a row. It will warm up faster that way.

TX.X-30 fan
09-23-2010, 10:03 PM
These three small holes won't allow enough antifreeze to get through unless you plan to spend all afternoon letting it trickle through. Much simpler to warm up the engine properly. While it may take a bit of effort to run the engine long enough to reach operating temperature at idle with cold hose water and cool ambient temperature, make heat soak be your friend. Start the engine, run for a few minutes and shut it off for a few minutes. Do this a few times in a row. It will warm up faster that way.




I say winner winner chicken dinner with this method...............

thatsmrmastercraft
09-23-2010, 10:04 PM
I say winner winner chicken dinner with this method...............

Thank you, thank you very much.

TX.X-30 fan
09-23-2010, 10:06 PM
Thank you, thank you very much.





Elvis................ :confused:

thatsmrmastercraft
09-23-2010, 10:07 PM
Elvis................ :confused:

Elvis..........:cool:

gimmemoedmb
09-25-2010, 11:49 PM
I run the engine up to temp, then drain all the water. Then fill a 5 gallon bucket with rv antifreeze and suck it up until it comes out the exhaust (and then some). I then drained a little out of the block into a cup to compare the color to unused antifreeze to make sure it isn't diluted. I used 5 or 6 gallons but the stuff is cheap. I leave it in the engine because it takes air to rust so if the engine is full of antifreeze it's less likely to rust. Your engine sits all summer full of fluid (water) so why not all winter. It worked for me and it got to -20 or even -30 last winter.

gimmemoedmb
09-25-2010, 11:51 PM
Wow, I didn't realize how sad it makes me to talk about winterizing. We still have a good month left up here though...the water doesn't get any better than this time of year!

Jerseydave
09-26-2010, 08:50 PM
I run the engine up to temp, then drain all the water. Then fill a 5 gallon bucket with rv antifreeze and suck it up until it comes out the exhaust (and then some). I then drained a little out of the block into a cup to compare the color to unused antifreeze to make sure it isn't diluted. I used 5 or 6 gallons but the stuff is cheap. I leave it in the engine because it takes air to rust so if the engine is full of antifreeze it's less likely to rust. Your engine sits all summer full of fluid (water) so why not all winter. It worked for me and it got to -20 or even -30 last winter.

I use this exact method, but I use the purple -60 marine anti-freeze, not the pink rv stuff. IIRC the pink a/f says not for use in engines on the bottle. It is for sinks, heads, etc. About $40 for 5 gals of purple a/f.

And I always change my oil just before my last trip out on the water. I usually end up with 4-5 hours of running time on that oil, no big deal.

weekendwater
10-05-2010, 01:18 PM
alright folks- I am a new boat owner, 06- X-30, this year with a question on winterization- concerning the ballast pumps= I have only filled them 1 time this year and then pumped out at the end of the day--- in July- thoughts on having antifreeze run through them? Definitely letting local service team handle the labor this year. Thanks for the help

Abe
10-23-2010, 04:45 PM
Hi Guys, I,m Ready to Winterize my mc. 3rd Winter I,ve had it now and Never used Antifreeze. After doing The Oil, Filters ETC, I just Drain The Block and Manifolds take out the impeller and All hoses at the bottom end where there is Water, Before lay up I drive around a little up and down a couple hills to get any other water out, Have I missed anything on this part of the winterizing. - Just being on the safe side to double check.

Ford 351 190, 1990

André
10-23-2010, 05:56 PM
I finish the ski season wuth a badly wobbling and leaking raw water pump.:(
Today i couldn't prime the pump to suck the antifreeze in.I guess it was sucking air around the shaft.
So i drained both manifolds and both engine plugs and drained all water i could.Then i removed my thermostat and poor about 2 gallons of AF letting it drip in the hull through both engine plugs.Put the plugs back and poor more AF to the top of the thermostat housing.
I feel quite safe but need some reinsurrance that i'm OK as i always used the same draining method but was sucking AF through the raw water pump for the last 8 seasons.
Beside hoses is there anywhere that water could have been trapped in the engine or cooling system?
I did managed to feed almost a gallon with the raw w. p. before shutting the engine off to get a rag but couldn't reprime after that so i think the hoses are fines but will drain them tomorrow anyway.I figure they'll be empty cause the raw water pump leaks so much...
Thanks!

Cloaked
10-23-2010, 08:16 PM
I finish the ski season wuth a badly wobbling and leaking raw water pump.:(
Today i couldn't prime the pump to suck the antifreeze in.I guess it was sucking air around the shaft.
So i drained both manifolds and both engine plugs and drained all water i could.Then i removed my thermostat and poor about 2 gallons of AF letting it drip in the hull through both engine plugs.Put the plugs back and poor more AF to the top of the thermostat housing.
I feel quite safe but need some reinsurrance that i'm OK as i always used the same draining method but was sucking AF through the raw water pump for the last 8 seasons.
Beside hoses is there anywhere that water could have been trapped in the engine or cooling system?
I did managed to feed almost a gallon with the raw w. p. before shutting the engine off to get a rag but couldn't reprime after that so i think the hoses are fines but will drain them tomorrow anyway.I figure they'll be empty cause the raw water pump leaks so much...
Thanks!You're good. If the transmission cooler is vertical, pull the bottom hose. Done deal.

Cloaked
10-23-2010, 08:20 PM
Hi Guys, I,m Ready to Winterize my mc. 3rd Winter I,ve had it now and Never used Antifreeze. After doing The Oil, Filters ETC, I just Drain The Block and Manifolds take out the impeller and All hoses at the bottom end where there is Water, Before lay up I drive around a little up and down a couple hills to get any other water out, Have I missed anything on this part of the winterizing. - Just being on the safe side to double check.

Ford 351 190, 1990There is a plug on the bottom of the J-tube, if your 351 is configured in that manner. The J-tube is adjacent to the raw water pump.

André
10-24-2010, 08:29 AM
You're good. If the transmission cooler is vertical, pull the bottom hose. Done deal.

Thanks!That's what i wanted to read!
I just need your real name and adress for my lawyer...Just in case!;)
It's 19 f here this morning...:(

ridefst
10-24-2010, 02:16 PM
Automotive anti-freeze is EXTREMELY toxic to your lake when you start up in your lake next spring, even if you flush with water in the spring.
DON'T use it to winterize.... ever.

You are joking right................................ :D

Surprised nobody replied to this... I presume most of you know already but JDK is right.
The green (or whatever color) normal automotive antifreeze is quite toxic. Dunno what a few gallons would do to a lake, but it's generally not a good idea to dump it around animals of any sort. A bowl of the stuff will put Fido six feet under pretty quick.

The RV antifreeze is designed for applications that will likely come into contact with drinking water at some point, so it's much more environmentally friendly.
Of course, it's not as good at cooling, so don't use it in your car engine though, it's more for temporary (one season) freeze protection.

OHIOPRO205
10-24-2010, 02:49 PM
I bought my 94 from original owner in 04 and he was told by Indmar not to put anything in the engine. I just drain all the hoses and impeller, take out the plugs on the back of the exaust manifolds, and take out the petcock and the temp. sensor in the block. That is all he was told to do and that is all I have done. I have a 5.7L and is inside year around but no heat in the winter. Not sure if that is best but thats all I have ever done. No problems here.