AMP Help????????

[jkski]

I've read a lot of topics out here about the different stereo set-ups everyone has, and I need a little advice. I've got an 05 PS197 with the factory stereo system and I added 4 tower speakers, a sub and JL Audio 6 channel amp (e6450). I mounted the amp under the observers seat to the side wall of the walkthru. Everything was working great until........... It was 90+ degrees on the water, the tunes were cranking and YEP, I fried it. My question....... I had an in-line fuse that did not blow, the amp just overheated and completely shut down and will not come back on, plus you could smell it burning, so, what can I do to avoid making the same mistake twice. Is there a better place to mount it? Rather than using one 6 channel amp, would it be better to go with a 4 channel and a 2 channel?
I'm all ears, let it rip.

Thanks.

[BriEOD]

Interesting...

Some amps have an emergency shut down to save themselves. The fuse wouldn't go unless you had a short or power surge somewhere in the circuit. When you say you have an inline fuse do you mean a fuse in the amp or like a 30 amp inline fuse on your raw power cable? Did you check the fuse on the amp? Pop the cover off that amp and take a look.

Adding multiple amps will definitely distribute the load and the heat better. But, then you need more space, extra RCA cables/jacks and more wires.

[jkski]

The fuse I referred to was the 30 amp inline one on the raw power. I looked through the manual I have on the amp, and it did not say anything about a fuse, and there isn't one on the outside anywhere, but I have not taken the cover off of it yet. Do you know if there is one under the cover? It does have an emergency shut-down, and a small red light that tells you it is in "protect mode", and that was on for a little while, but nothing comes on now.

[BriEOD]

Most amplifiers have a built in fuse. It is supposed to protect them from voltage surge etc. They are usually near the power terminal. I would definitely pull that amp out of the boat and remove the cover. If you fried it you'll know real quick. Also, if you did I'd email/call JL Audio and see if they can help (warranty maybe). I can't imagine JL Audio doesn't put a fuse in their amps. But, I've never used their equipment.

[jkski]

Good advice, I'll pull it tonight and hope for the best. It's not the boat that so expensive, it's all the stuff we put in them!

Thanks again.

[warren]

May be you should have the dealership install it, because if your installation's are anything like your wakeboarding you have problems!

[juju151]

May be you should have the dealership install it, because if your installation's are anything like your wakeboarding you have problems!

OUCH!!!! That hurt!

[jkski]

You'll notice that I chose not to dignify that with a response, simply because I have seen his lack of ability!!! Besides, I'm a slalom skier and barefooter who chooses to wakeboard simply because I have nothing else to do when the water gets rough and it doens't take much skill! (Only kidding for all of you wakeboarders out there except warren)

[Diesel]

If the amp was built in the last decade is should have a thermal protection circuit (unless it is a cheapy). From your description I assume you are running 4 channels at 2ohm stereo and one channel at 4ohm mono. As a result you are working the amp very, very hard and it just could not take it......but still it should have shut down to protect itself. Over the 4th even my 900.4 Kicker went into thermal protection a few times on the beach. Internal temps were 225+ :eek:. It does have a large internal fan to help keep temps down but sometimes the ambient air is just too hot, especially in an enclosed compartment.

If it is fried and you have to wind up buying a new amp I would definately get two seperate amps. It will help seperate the heat sources and you will definatly see an improvement in sound. Make sure whatever amps you choose that they have a thermal shut down circuit to protect the amp.

Good luck ;)

[jake]

I agree with the two amp approach. Would also look for amps with internal fans like Kicker or Audiobahn. Alternatively, I'd look for amps with the biggest heat sinks you can find. I run 2 Alpine V-series in mine, they haven't taken a dump yet, but then again I don't typically run the tunes very loud.

On the other hand, JL is obviously quality gear. I'm wondering why the safe mode didn't take care of the problem unless you got a short on one of your speaker wires or something. Are you operating it in the published resistance range and do you have equal load and resistance on all the channels?

[jkski]

Thanks again. You are correct in the way I have it connected and it is getting overworked, but it was such a nice clean install with just one unit. If it is fried then I'll go to 2 amps.
The one that I installed is the 6 channel version of what MC is putting in from the factory, JL Audio, which is good stuff right? If I do have to get a different one/two, any advice on what I should get that won't force me to mortgage the home and sell the boat?

[Diesel]

What sub do you have and how is it mounted.

Which tower speakers do you have.......... 4 right??

How many speakers and what kind are in the boat??

[djhuff]

Whatever you do, do not open the amp. If this is covered under warranty, opening the amp will void it. There are no user servicable parts in the amp, if there is no fuse on the outside (doubtful) then there is no fuse at the amp. Go to where you bought it and see what they say.

Most amps do have thermal protection in them, I personally always run amps at their max (not power, just load) I find it cheaper and have hit the protection on several occaisions, usually comes back on in about 15 mins or so and I scale back a little. This used to happen in my car when I had no AC and would ride with the windows down at 100+ degrees. Amps in the trunk cut out all the time (and they are still working after 10 years.

[jkski]

I have a PYLE sub mounted in the drivers kick panel (factory location), the tower speakers are from Crawley Products and they are Sony X-Plodes mounted Front/Back, so that there are 2 6inch speakers in each enclosure (total of 4 tower speakers), and the 4 boat speakers are the factory JL Audio's 6 inch.
The wiring is set up as follows:
Front 2 boat speakers = Channel 1
Rear 2 boat speakers = Channel 2
2 tower speakers = Channel 3
2 tower speakers = Channel 4
Sub = Bridged Channel 5 and 6

Keep in mind, I am not a stereo expert, so I most likely caused my own problems. I'll take any advice you have. I did call JL Audio, and for about $225 they can rebuild my amp and warranty it, what do you think?

[SteveO]

I have that amp driving my 4 "built in" 6 inch clarions (4 of the 6 channels) and the other 2 channels driving my JL 10W2 in Mono. I also have a JL 300/2 driving my fusion tower speakers. On occasion they will go into a thermal protect mode. Good luck

[BriEOD]

Did you wire it or the dealer? $225 is way cheaper than two new decent amps. Plus you get a warranty. I'd go that route probably.

[Diesel]

I have a PYLE sub mounted in the drivers kick panel (factory location), the tower speakers are from Crawley Products and they are Sony X-Plodes mounted Front/Back, so that there are 2 6inch speakers in each enclosure (total of 4 tower speakers), and the 4 boat speakers are the factory JL Audio's 6 inch.
The wiring is set up as follows:
Front 2 boat speakers = Channel 1
Rear 2 boat speakers = Channel 2
2 tower speakers = Channel 3
2 tower speakers = Channel 4
Sub = Bridged Channel 5 and 6

Keep in mind, I am not a stereo expert, so I most likely caused my own problems. I'll take any advice you have. I did call JL Audio, and for about $225 they can rebuild my amp and warranty it, what do you think?

I would make sure the JL amp is 2ohm stereo stable. I would assume so since you are running the sub a 4ohm bridged mono which is the same thing. If all this is true I would investigate JLs warranty program. The amp should have shut down and protected itself.

The rebuild seems resonable but I would make sure to investigate all your warranty options. Also I would make sure the rebuilt model will not act the same way. Just to let you know you can buy a reconditoned Kicker KX800.4 here (http://www.cardomain.com/item/KIC04KX85042) for just a little bit more money than what JL is asking to rebuilt. Plus the Kicker is a much better amp.
http://images.cardomain.net/products/kic/KIC04KX85042.jpg

You will still have to get a seperate amp for the sub but I would still recomend that even if you keep the JL.

[jkski]

What amp would you advise for the sub?

[Diesel]

What amp would you advise for the sub?

If it is a single voice coil 4ohm sub I would go with a KX350.2 or KX450.2 and run it bridged a 4ohm mono. The bigger the amp the less it has to work, so the cooler it will run. If you can swing it the KX550.2 would be ideal.

My solobaric L7 has a max RMS of 650 watts and I am running a 1ohm load at 1250 watts from a SX1250.1. All weekend no matter how hard I ran the system the SX1250.1 never broke 150 degrees. I always like to err on the big side when it comes to amps..........especially sub amps.

Amps are the foundation of the system. I have found over the years you need to spend some money to get a good foundation you can build from. You can do it in stages as long as you have a good set of amps. Plus amps that continue to shut off or fry (in this case) can ruin a weekend of tunes.

If you can get the JL warrantied (at no cost) I would use it for the highs. Run the tower speakers at 4ohm stereo off channels 1/2, 3/4, and the boats speakers parallel at 2ohm stereo on 5/6. Then get a really solid sub amp and you should be set. Then in the following years you can upgrade the JL to a better 4 channel amp.

FYI, if you upgrade to two amps you will need to start looking at a dual battery setup as well.........

[rspiecha]

Is the AMP still under warranty???

[Workin' 4 Toys]

Did you wire it or the dealer? $225 is way cheaper than two new decent amps. Plus you get a warranty. I'd go that route probably.
Yes, but then isn't he back where he started with one? Or do you think the single amp is enough? I would think two amps is much better for the application?
I would think JL is great equipment to have. I am quite surprised by the issue at hand.

[jkski]

Keep the ideas coming guys, it is much appreciated. I think the JL stuff is good and don't blame the equipment, it was 100% operator error, I simply drove it too hard. Wish I could blame it on the mfg. but it was all me.
I think I'll take the safer route and buy a seperate sub amp.

[smsunman1]

What was your input voltage when the amp died? was it pretty low?
Low voltage will kill and amp just as like high voltage, its as though the amp is having a stroke. It will cause the output side to work that much harder burning it up slowly.
btw, if the amp is under warrenty don't tell them that is was in a boat.

[zberger]

I would look into seperating the amps duty up.. if they will replace that amp, take the replacement, its a great amp.. but you need a seperate sub amp, you are only probably getting 150 watts outta that sub channel, not enough to do anything crazy.

Step up to like the e1800 or maybe the 500/1 if you wanna spend a lil more.

I would be getting 2 batteries STAT.. and either a Isolator or Diesels relay setup.

I have a kenwood 60x4 and a orion 375.2 in my buddies boat with 1 extra battery, it rocks!

[zberger]

What was your input voltage when the amp died? was it pretty low?
Low voltage will kill and amp just as like high voltage, its as though the amp is having a stroke. It will cause the output side to work that much harder burning it up slowly.
btw, if the amp is under warrenty don't tell them that is was in a boat.

This would vary as to what headunit he is using.

[zberger]

Keep the ideas coming guys, it is much appreciated. I think the JL stuff is good and don't blame the equipment, it was 100% operator error, I simply drove it too hard. Wish I could blame it on the mfg. but it was all me.
I think I'll take the safer route and buy a seperate sub amp.

What sub are you running again?

Any pics?

If you are going to be running dual amps, you should look into running 4 gauge power wire also, depending on your length from battery to amp, etc.

[MYMC]

None of the JL "e" series are stable into 2ohms and lower.

Plus the Kicker is a much better amp.
Based on???

Use the "rebuilt" @6450 to run your boat and tower. Purchase a 500/1 to run the sub and use a 4gauge wire kit to power each system separately. BTW...we have also used the 1800D with great success (sub application) and it is much easier on the electrical system of the boat. That way you would have all "e" series amps and not mix and match the regualted and non-regulated power supplies.

[Diesel]

Based on???




The fact that a 2ohm stereo load killed it!! :D

Should have said "much better amp for this application..."

Keep in mind, if the amp is not capable of driving a 2ohm stereo load then it is also not able to drive a 4ohm mono load.

[Diesel]

This would vary as to what headunit he is using.

I assume clarion marine................if so it is at best 2 volts.

[ryanbush]

What was your input voltage when the amp died? was it pretty low?
Low voltage will kill and amp just as like high voltage, its as though the amp is having a stroke. It will cause the output side to work that much harder burning it up slowly.
btw, if the amp is under warrenty don't tell them that is was in a boat.

I think he ment the voltage coming from the battery, not the head unit, my voltage varies from a full charge 13.1 to 11.0 where I shut the system off, I'm using optimas that kinda gives you a range. most amps have a shut off a 10.5 but anything below 11.5 starts getting hard on the amps

[maha skier]

I've read a lot of topics out here about the different stereo set-ups everyone has, and I need a little advice. I've got an 05 PS197 with the factory stereo system and I added 4 tower speakers, a sub and JL Audio 6 channel amp (e6450). I mounted the amp under the observers seat to the side wall of the walkthru. Everything was working great until........... It was 90+ degrees on the water, the tunes were cranking and YEP, I fried it. My question....... I had an in-line fuse that did not blow, the amp just overheated and completely shut down and will not come back on, plus you could smell it burning, so, what can I do to avoid making the same mistake twice. Is there a better place to mount it? Rather than using one 6 channel amp, would it be better to go with a 4 channel and a 2 channel?
I'm all ears, let it rip.

Thanks. Actually, the amp is fine, it has to be mounted where there is a little air circulation. Under the seat gets very humid, therefore thats the reason it fries. You can either have it mounted up under the dash with 2 brackets or any other place thats not covered. Just make sure that in no way shape or form that water can get to it...

[zberger]

I think he ment the voltage coming from the battery, not the head unit, my voltage varies from a full charge 13.1 to 11.0 where I shut the system off, I'm using optimas that kinda gives you a range. most amps have a shut off a 10.5 but anything below 11.5 starts getting hard on the amps

you must have regulated power supply amps..

too bad you don't have the JL "slash series" they are awesome for applications such as this..

R.I.P.S. System™

R.I.P.S. stands for "Regulated, Intelligent Power Supply" and is a central feature of JL Audio's “Slash” series amplifiers. The remarkable R.I.P.S. System™ ensures consistent power delivery over a wide range of battery voltages and load impedances.

"Regulated" means that the power supply adjusts its operation so as to maintain the amplifier's rated power output over a wide range of vehicle voltages (11V-14.5 V). Conventional, unregulated power supplies result in significant power losses as battery voltage decreases. With a JL Audio “Slash” series amplifier, the power output remains consistent in real-world systems, resulting in superior fidelity and stability.

The "Intelligent" portion of the R.I.P.S. System is a circuit that actually monitors output current to optimize the amplifier's output power over a wide range of load impedances (1.5 ohm-4 ohm per channel). Conventional amplifiers are designed to produce optimum power at a particular impedance (2 ohm, for example). When asked to run above that impedance (say, 4 ohm), these amplifiers lose power (half their power from 2 ohm to 4 ohm). This will not happen with a JL Audio “Slash” series amplifier because the R.I.P.S. System detects the actual impedance being driven and adjusts output rail voltages to deliver optimum output. The entire process is seamless, automatic, and results in incredible dynamics for satellite channels and consistent power output for a wide range of subwoofer configurations. It also takes into account the real impedance of the system, rather than relying on often inaccurate assumptions based on a speaker's "nominal impedance".

The bottom line of the R.I.P.S. system is: Optimum power, at any impedance between 1.5 ohm and 4 ohm per channel, at any vehicle voltage between 11V and 14.5V.

Now while I like Kicker amps, I totally like the JL ones too.. and it looks to me that this amp was simply over driven.. and it sounds like it got way too hot due to this, why it failed, is uncertain, but I'd put my salt on any amp failing under these circumstances.

[MYMC]

We used the "slash" series in all of Maeghan's X-Stars until this year. If you decide to go all "slash" series then do yourself a favor and wire it so that it is on its own battery/electrical system.

[zberger]

We used the "slash" series in all of Maeghan's X-Stars until this year. If you decide to go all "slash" series then do yourself a favor and wire it so that it is on its own battery/electrical system.

Personally, If you are adding a system that consists of anything more than a 4 channel amp, you should be creating its own electrical system anyways.

Any links to pics of those boats?

[MYMC]

Maeghan's last boat was in Car Audio and Electronics and featured on WakeWorld...this should take you to the WakeWorld story: http://www.wakeworld.com/Articles/2004/jlaudio.asp

[zberger]

Maeghan's last boat was in Car Audio and Electronics and featured on WakeWorld...this should take you to the WakeWorld story: http://www.wakeworld.com/Articles/2004/jlaudio.asp

I have the magazine at home on my coffee table :)

[MYMC]

Very cool, thanks for letting me know...I'll pass this along to Maeghan.

We are doing another boat for her and JL; however, the issues with Perfect Pass and DBW have to be resolved first as I don't need any electrical glitches to cover up real issues.