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Jesus_Freak
08-21-2010, 11:22 AM
(Note 1: Although the title says "Nissan Leaf", I am looking for data on any fully electric vehicle.)
(Note 2: Neither me, nor my family, nor my friends have any affiliation with Nissan Corporation or its subsidiaries.)

As we see the introduction of this fully electric vehicle (http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/index?dcp=ppn.39666654.&dcc=0.216878497#/leaf-electric-car/index) (and others) in the US later this year, I would like to collect real consumer information and feedback on just how well the overall program works, such as:

1. Range - town and highway
2. Charge time - 240 and 120
3. Effects of using the heating and cooling systems on the range
4. Battery life and replacement costs
5. Costs of electricity-based versus gasoline/diesel-based transportation
6. Options for "plugging up" along travel route, i.e. infrastructure
7. Normal consumer info, such as repairs and longevity
8. Tax credit execution - does it work?

Please post any real experience (no advertisement garbage) you have or know of as the electric vehicles start being driven...

vision
08-21-2010, 01:28 PM
Great idea JF. The Leaf looks like a decent contender. It is number 4 that I worry about the most. Will it be almost useless after 5 years of charging.

DooSPX
08-21-2010, 07:42 PM
being a huge hotrodder and racer, the electric cars do nothing to impress me. what impresses me what a gm LSx engine can do with good tuning.
my old t/a got 34mph at 75mph going to WV dynoed 353/355 to the wheels and ran 11's in the 1/4. Its all in the tuning baby. heck, my 04 GMC Sierra ECSB 2wd 5.3L 3.73 posi gets 22 easy on the same trip. not bad for 5700 lbs. all stock except for LOTS O tuning.
The T/A got better mileage than my 06 2.2L cobalt :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Jesus_Freak
08-21-2010, 09:55 PM
being a huge hotrodder and racer, the electric cars do nothing to impress me. what impresses me what a gm LSx engine can do with good tuning..

What does how huge you are have to do with anything? 8p J/K

I did not mean to imply that the Leaf is impressive. I propose that it will be a strong topic of discussion at some point, and I would like to objectively gather information.

sand2snow22
08-21-2010, 10:07 PM
As we see the introduction of a fully electric vehicle (http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/index?dcp=ppn.39666654.&dcc=0.216878497#/leaf-electric-car/index) in the US later this year, I would like to collect real consumer information and feedback on just how well the overall program works, such as:

1. Range - town and highway 100
2. Charge time - 240 and 120- Overnight should be OK
3. Effects of using the heating and cooling systems on the range. Will
4. Battery life and replacement costs
5. Costs of electricity-based versus gasoline/diesel-based transportation
6. Options for "plugging up" along travel route, i.e. infrastructure
7. Normal consumer info, such as repairs and longevity
8. Tax credit execution

1. They're saying 100 mile range.
2. Overnight should be more than plenty. My understanding is they have 3 levels of charging. Level 1 takes a long time, Level 2 takes a few hours and Level 3 is a full quick charge. Leaf is supposed to be compatible with all 3? I won't hold my breath. Level 3 is new technology.
3. It will hurt it for sure.
4. Batteries should be under warranty for 10 years, must verify, though...
5. WAY LESS. In the PNW, we are talking pennies vs dollars
6. My town has a few, but the EV project is bringing over 300 very soon. Was supposed to be this summer.
7. ??????
8. Ask a tax advisor. Might verify if you HAVE to have tax liability.

Other than that, I signed up for the EV project. If I buy a Leaf, they're supposed to install an EV charger in my garage for FREE! Problem is, I took the survey and they say I'm going to have to pay b/c my electrical needs updating? They called me on Friday. Contractor is supposed to call me next week. Slight problem. Boat is in the garage. We'll see.

DooSPX
08-21-2010, 10:34 PM
Understood JF.
I was making a stupid opinion. I wish I had detailed info to give about the car, but all I know about it is its name. lol :rolleyes:

Jesus_Freak
08-22-2010, 09:15 AM
1. They're saying 100 mile range.
2. Overnight should be more than plenty. My understanding is they have 3 levels of charging. Level 1 takes a long time, Level 2 takes a few hours and Level 3 is a full quick charge. Leaf is supposed to be compatible with all 3? I won't hold my breath. Level 3 is new technology.
3. It will hurt it for sure.
4. Batteries should be under warranty for 10 years, must verify, though...
5. WAY LESS. In the PNW, we are talking pennies vs dollars
6. My town has a few, but the EV project is bringing over 300 very soon. Was supposed to be this summer.
7. ??????
8. Ask a tax advisor. Might verify if you HAVE to have tax liability.

Other than that, I signed up for the EV project. If I buy a Leaf, they're supposed to install an EV charger in my garage for FREE! Problem is, I took the survey and they say I'm going to have to pay b/c my electrical needs updating? They called me on Friday. Contractor is supposed to call me next week. Slight problem. Boat is in the garage. We'll see.

Excellent. Thank you.

Just for the record, I dont give a rip what Nissan is "saying" or what is being advertised. This is a consumer data collection thread. I want to know the real deal.

sand2snow22
08-24-2010, 05:12 PM
80% quick charge in 20-30 minutes. Looks like we are the first to get one. Too bad it's hidden underground:(

Leaf is being built in TN, correct? I know the EV project is there, too. Might be worth signing up for the EV project, see what they say.......

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/08/portland-gets-first-quick-ev-charging-station.php

sand2snow22
08-27-2010, 12:18 PM
Taken yesterday by my brother. Looked to be a Chevy Volt photo shoot......

Jesus_Freak
08-27-2010, 01:42 PM
80% quick charge in 20-30 minutes. Looks like we are the first to get one. Too bad it's hidden underground:(

Leaf is being built in TN, correct? I know the EV project is there, too. Might be worth signing up for the EV project, see what they say.......

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/08/portland-gets-first-quick-ev-charging-station.php

Thanks for the updates. Very interesting....

If I google it, I find this: http://www.insideline.com/nissan/leaf/nissan-leaf-and-its-battery-to-be-tennessee-built.html, but I was not even aware of the TN plans...:o

I have not been following it closely. I am not much of a tree hugger, but I do like cheap(er) energy sources.

sand2snow22
08-27-2010, 01:53 PM
Just had the EV Project at my house to inspect our electrical system. Everything looks good for install. The EV charger will come with level 2 charging capibilities. 6-8 hours charging time with 0% battery life left. 2 of the 3 guys here road tested the Leaf, they asked the Nissan rep. and he said they have been getting 160 mile range running A/C and/or heater. Good news the 100 mile range might be conservative. You might think about signing up for the EV Project www.evproject.com

Just found the treehugger website by searching level 3 charger...... They also said $3.50 for a full charge.

vision
08-28-2010, 07:26 PM
Did Nissan give you any idea of expected battery life and ease of replacement?

TX.X-30 fan
08-28-2010, 07:55 PM
What are we going to do with all the waste from making all the batteries and what happens to the cars when they are worthless. Looking at the overall picture from production to charging these vehicles where is the energy savings. I thought battery production to greenies was as bad as cutting down a redwood. We never hear the other side.

Jesus_Freak
08-28-2010, 08:49 PM
I ran some rough numbers and threw this together in about 10 minutes. Of course my basic assumptions could be moved around one way or another, but my perception of how cheap it will be to operate a fully electric vehicle does not quite seem to be correct...

squishd
08-28-2010, 10:50 PM
So why would some one want to buy a leaf?

When you plug it in to charge it where do you think that the power is coming from?

Volt 40 grand Not.....

sand2snow22
08-29-2010, 02:11 AM
When you plug it in to charge it where do you think that the power is coming from?


My solar panels.........

TX.X-30 fan
08-29-2010, 01:04 PM
My solar panels.........



Have you done the math on those? Its worse than the electric cars, I would need not counting an electric car about 40 panels to be self sufficient on sunny days at a cost way over 50 grand and a life expectancy of 25 years assuming no hail storms. The panels lose output throughout the service life to.

sand2snow22
08-30-2010, 02:12 AM
Have you done the math on those? Its worse than the electric cars, I would need not counting an electric car about 40 panels to be self sufficient on sunny days at a cost way over 50 grand and a life expectancy of 25 years assuming no hail storms. The panels lose output throughout the service life to.

$50k? Please. I live in OR, they pay ME to put them on..... :D

vision
08-30-2010, 09:36 AM
So why would some one want to buy a leaf?

When you plug it in to charge it where do you think that the power is coming from?

Volt 40 grand Not.....

The carbon foot print of your electricity indeed does vary with location. In the Pacific Northwest and several other areas in the US, electricity is generated with sources significantly cleaner than a gasoline engine in terms of CO2 output. In the Midwest however, where coal is king, an electric car may not really be greener than a good gasoline engine.

Jesus_Freak
08-30-2010, 01:49 PM
So why would some one want to buy a leaf? When you plug it in to charge it where do you think that the power is coming from?

Yes, I think everyone on the forum knows that plugging something into a wall socket consumes electricity and comes with a cost.

The carbon foot print of your electricity indeed does vary with location. In the Pacific Northwest and several other areas in the US, electricity is generated with sources significantly cleaner than a gasoline engine in terms of CO2 output. In the Midwest however, where coal is king, an electric car may not really be greener than a good gasoline engine.

Yes, the gasoline engine is an extremely inefficient powerplant. The integrated cost and emissions resulting from the total world power consumption could [potentially] be reduced by having fewer central distributors, i.e large scale electricity producers.

Again, remember, I am not trying to convince anyone to buy electric. I am merely trying to collect objective data.

captain planet
08-30-2010, 02:25 PM
What are we going to do with all the waste from making all the batteries and what happens to the cars when they are worthless. Looking at the overall picture from production to charging these vehicles where is the energy savings. I thought battery production to greenies was as bad as cutting down a redwood. We never hear the other side.

Have you done the math on those? Its worse than the electric cars, I would need not counting an electric car about 40 panels to be self sufficient on sunny days at a cost way over 50 grand and a life expectancy of 25 years assuming no hail storms. The panels lose output throughout the service life to.

Your late TX. Are you slipping or something? It took you a day and a half to bring the "faux-news" perspective to this thread. You usually jump on these type threads in a matter of minutes.

For crying out loud TX, do you just type out anything that rush fatbaugh or slant-head hannity say or do you actually think for yourself?

They will do the same thing that they do to gas cars, crush them, grind them up, melt them down, and make cheap metal shelving units out of them. One difference is when they crush them they won't have to contain and dispose of the engine oil and antifreeze.

Sorry for the thread jack JF...but I just couldn't help myself.

Craig
08-30-2010, 02:38 PM
The carbon foot print of your electricity indeed does vary with location. In the Pacific Northwest and several other areas in the US, electricity is generated with sources significantly cleaner than a gasoline engine in terms of CO2 output. In the Midwest however, where coal is king, an electric car may not really be greener than a good gasoline engine.

I know nothing about the Nissan Leaf, in particular, I apologize if this is slightly off-topic.

For an electric vehicle carbon is not emitted at the vehicle but it is where electricity is produced, even if your power grid is entirely renewable (construction and manufacturing of said plants). Carbon is released during production of the vehicles as well. Batteries for electric vehicles require a large amount of energy to produce.

It boils down to energy use and carbon emissions over the life of the vehicle. These are called life-cycle assessments (LCA). I have done a bit of this and looked into a variety of hybrid and electric vehicles. I have come to a few key conclusions based on my own small studies and from reviewing other, more extensive, studies.

1) The life-cycle energy use of a typical small sedan is roughly 2 times greater than the life-cycle energy use of an all electric sedan of similar size when operated under the same conditions.

2) The total carbon emissions of an internal combustion engine overtakes an electric vehicle in roughly 3-5 years depending on the geography (i.e. what ratio of fossil fuels to renewable are used to generate electricity).

3) The energy density (energy/unit volume) of gas is about 15-20 times greater than any battery technology and requires 80-100 times as much time to 'charge' (i.e. filling up is fast vs. charging the batteries). This is not so much a conclusion but a practical limitation of the technology.

4) Economically, it can make some sense if you own the car for 5 years or more. This will vary greatly depending on your financing.

Jorski
08-30-2010, 03:06 PM
The viability will be greatly affected by the change in the price of Oil versus Electricity over the period of ownership.

Jesus_Freak
08-31-2010, 01:21 PM
I know nothing about the Nissan Leaf, in particular, I apologize if this is slightly off-topic.

For an electric vehicle carbon is not emitted at the vehicle but it is where electricity is produced, even if your power grid is entirely renewable (construction and manufacturing of said plants). Carbon is released during production of the vehicles as well. Batteries for electric vehicles require a large amount of energy to produce.

It boils down to energy use and carbon emissions over the life of the vehicle. These are called life-cycle assessments (LCA). I have done a bit of this and looked into a variety of hybrid and electric vehicles. I have come to a few key conclusions based on my own small studies and from reviewing other, more extensive, studies.

1) The life-cycle energy use of a typical small sedan is roughly 2 times greater than the life-cycle energy use of an all electric sedan of similar size when operated under the same conditions.

2) The total carbon emissions of an internal combustion engine overtakes an electric vehicle in roughly 3-5 years depending on the geography (i.e. what ratio of fossil fuels to renewable are used to generate electricity).

3) The energy density (energy/unit volume) of gas is about 15-20 times greater than any battery technology and requires 80-100 times as much time to 'charge' (i.e. filling up is fast vs. charging the batteries). This is not so much a conclusion but a practical limitation of the technology.

4) Economically, it can make some sense if you own the car for 5 years or more. This will vary greatly depending on your financing.

Thanks Craig. Not off-topic to this off-topic thread. Great perspective.

3) I dont necessarily consider this one relevant to the cost comparison, but good to note.
4) I dont think we have enough real data to make this conclusion yet, hence the purpose of this thread.

The viability will be greatly affected by the change in the price of Oil versus Electricity over the period of ownership.

Absolutely! The shift in relative oil/natural gas pricing in recent years, for example, rendered one of the newly installed, large scale gas-turbine power stations of the company I work for a colossal [economic] failure.

Jesus_Freak
11-06-2010, 08:20 AM
Hello peeps. Just bumping this thread as a reminder that we want some feedback/data from any buyers of any fully electric vehicle.

Here is some news on the Leaf timing: "Production of Nissan LEAF begins at Oppama, Japan on Oct 22, 2010...Exports to start in November...On sale in December in Japan and the United States...". Not sure about others...

ShawnB
11-06-2010, 08:33 AM
Here's one of the reviews of the Volt from that photo shoot. Kind of a cool analysis real-world -- drive an EV from DC to NYC. They killed the battery in under 30 miles and had to drive under fuel for the rest of the trip.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/05/chevy-volt-preview-escape-from-dc-in-todays-car-of-tomorrow/

Taken yesterday by my brother. Looked to be a Chevy Volt photo shoot......

macattack
11-06-2010, 12:32 PM
Here's one of the reviews of the Volt from that photo shoot. Kind of a cool analysis real-world -- drive an EV from DC to NYC. They killed the battery in under 30 miles and had to drive under fuel for the rest of the trip.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/05/chevy-volt-preview-escape-from-dc-in-todays-car-of-tomorrow/

"Kill" is a pretty strong word!:D As the article stated, they drove the Volt "in not the best conditions"...rained the entire trip/had the windshield wipers, headlights, and seat warmers on. Not making excuses, but the "advertised" battery charge under "perfect" conditions is only 40 miles. Again the marketing scheme of this car is the for person who's daily commute to work, etc is less than 40 mile round trip/uses no gas. Even with the Fed credit of $7500, I'm not justifying $32,500 price tag, but it is an interesting concept! mac

TX.X-30 fan
11-06-2010, 02:26 PM
Your late TX. Are you slipping or something? It took you a day and a half to bring the "faux-news" perspective to this thread. You usually jump on these type threads in a matter of minutes.

For crying out loud TX, do you just type out anything that rush fatbaugh or slant-head hannity say or do you actually think for yourself?

They will do the same thing that they do to gas cars, crush them, grind them up, melt them down, and make cheap metal shelving units out of them. One difference is when they crush them they won't have to contain and dispose of the engine oil and antifreeze.

Sorry for the thread jack JF...but I just couldn't help myself.




This was not a very friendly post CP, look at what it takes and whats in all those batteries before you grind the car up. At least I was smart enough to know Algore was a charlatan and a phony. I don't just believe every fool that says the earth is in danger constantly from man. Keep getting your news from CNN and MSNBC and you will sleep happy.

Jesus_Freak
11-07-2010, 07:04 AM
Here's one of the reviews of the Volt from that photo shoot. Kind of a cool analysis real-world -- drive an EV from DC to NYC. They killed the battery in under 30 miles and had to drive under fuel for the rest of the trip.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/05/chevy-volt-preview-escape-from-dc-in-todays-car-of-tomorrow/

Thanks, but I dont think the hybrid Volt (http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/volt/2011/gm-lied-chevy-volt-is-not-a-true-ev.html?loc=interstitialskip) counts on this fully electric vehicle thread. ;)

Jesus_Freak
12-04-2010, 08:02 AM
When I first launched this thread, I was thinking about maybe considering a Leaf (or any fully electric vehicle) in a future purchase. That was why I was looking for real consumer data. Then, with my minivan getting close to death and my frustration with having to continue to personally fix things on it, I have actually been thinking about pulling the trigger now. Here are a few things I have learned in my quest...

1. The dealers seem to know very, very little about these cars.
2. They seem to all be adhering to the full sticker price for now.
3. Some of the fine print on the supposed tax credits can be important. Pay attention.
4. ##Most important## At a recent conference, I talked to a friend at GM R&D about the hybrid Volt and the Leaf. He noted that the Leaf has a primitive battery cooling system. He was certain that battery life is going to be a serious problem for the Leaf. Well, he is GM biased, but he is also well-versed in heat transfer issues. I discussed with a local dealer. It seems that the battery warranty is a moving target for Nissan. The current "warranty" (not sure how exactly it is covered at this point) is for 8 years or 100,000 miles. Sounds good, but again, we need data.

Anyone thinking about a purchase?

vision
12-04-2010, 10:26 AM
I see there are testing fleet buses that use easily swappable batteries in Japan. One set is charging while the other set is installed and in use. I may wait on pulling the trigger on an electric vehicle until such a system is available for consumer cars. It would greatly extend the value of a vehicle if battery replacement was relatively simple.

JLeuck64
12-04-2010, 01:34 PM
When I first launched this thread, I was thinking about maybe considering a Leaf (or any fully electric vehicle) in a future purchase. That was why I was looking for real consumer data. Then, with my minivan getting close to death and my frustration with having to continue to personally fix things on it, I have actually been thinking about pulling the trigger now. Here are a few things I have learned in my quest...

1. The dealers seem to know very, very little about these cars.
2. They seem to all be adhering to the full sticker price for now.
3. Some of the fine print on the supposed tax credits can be important. Pay attention.
4. ##Most important## At a recent conference, I talked to a friend at GM R&D about the hybrid Volt and the Leaf. He noted that the Leaf has a primitive battery cooling system. He was certain that battery life is going to be a serious problem for the Leaf. Well, he is GM biased, but he is also well-versed in heat transfer issues. I discussed with a local dealer. It seems that the battery warranty is a moving target for Nissan. The current "warranty" (not sure how exactly it is covered at this point) is for 8 years or 100,000 miles. Sounds good, but again, we need data.

Anyone thinking about a purchase?

This is really starting to remind me of the time when the Prius first came into our market. Folks back then were eager to plop down full retail (and more) just for the privelege of participating in an experiment!

Jesus_Freak
01-30-2011, 07:27 AM
And judging by the power bills of people who own electric cars, its not going to save anyone any money either......

I swiped this quote from the electric ski boat thread. This implies that we have some data to review now. If so, please elaborate.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
01-30-2011, 02:07 PM
I just wanted to chime in here, first i have worked for nissan dealerships since 1995 and have seen the idustry change.
* first there is no real customer data yet, the Leaf has not hit the streets yet, my dealership just got all the special tools and equipment to service it, and does NOT have a Leaf on the floor yet, so all we have to go on it what Nissan USA has tested and reported, only time will tell.
* second on price, over the past 4-5 years car mfg's have been pricing their cars where there is not a lot of profit for dealers, ie dealer invoice to mfg MSRP is 1,000 or less to not a lot of room for negotiation they make their money on upsales. A 5-6 years ago there was 3000-5000 to negotiate with
*third on other cars, prius, volt are HYBRID electric vehicles, the Leaf is 100% electric and they should not be compared apples to apples.
* fourth the battery pack weighs 660 pounds and cannot be easily be swapped out for another battery while one is charging like another post suggested, it is part of the passenger side floor board. I agree the batteries are going to limit the travel time, but who is going to buy the Leaf? a soccer mom with tons of errands to do OR is it going to be a Larry David type who uses the Leaf as a status symbol. After all that is what Nissan Leaf's target market is. The consumer does not want this car, the government does.
I will post some pdf's that i have from the leaf training

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
01-30-2011, 02:16 PM
Another thing that Dealerships are doing is installing the charge stations for customers to stop in and "Top Off the Battery" This service is going to be free. (Last I heard)

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
01-30-2011, 02:17 PM
Use this information to help answer customer questions related to Nissan LEAF’s battery and charging capabilities.
Charging Levels
Industry groups are working to
establish three basic types of
charging.
“Trickle” charging can be done
in any public or private location
using a conventional 120V outlet.
While this level of charging is adequate for occasional use, it is not intended for regular use.
“Standard” charging will be done at home and in public using a 240V charging dock.
Industry organizations are still working to create “Quick” charging and equipment standards. Quick charging
requires commercial-grade electric service. This level of charging will be available only in select areas when Nissan
LEAF is first released.
Infrastructure
Nissan is working with industry groups and government at all levels
to help create the charging infrastructure required for mass-market
EV operation.
This includes efficient, reasonably priced installation of home
charging units as well as the availability of Standard and Quick
charging units for use away from home, at businesses and
government facilities.
Intelligent Technology
Nissan LEAF includes a number of intelligent technologies to help
drivers understand their driving range and charging status.
• The meter and navigation system will display how far the vehicle
can go, based on the remaining battery charge.
• The navigation system will display nearby charging locations.
• The vehicle can be programmed to charge anytime, including
overnight, when energy costs are typically lower. And owners
can receive an e-mail update when charging is complete.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
01-30-2011, 02:18 PM
Use this information to help answer customer questions related to Nissan LEAF’s in-home charging dock assessment
and installation process. Customers can also go to the Nissan LEAF microsite to watch a video on the in-home
charging dock installation.
What is the in-home assessment?
To charge Nissan LEAF overnight, customers
will need a charging dock in their home. The
home assessment is a visit by a licensed and
qualified electrician to determine where the
dock will be installed and the work that will
be required to complete the installation.
A certified contractor from AeroVironment
will conduct the assessment. AeroVironment
is Nissan’s preferred in-home charging dock
provider. They are experts in electric vehicle
charging systems, with over 20 years of
experience in the industry. The assessment takes about an hour. Then, within 3 business days, customers will
receive a detailed quote from AeroVironment explaining all the costs to complete the installation.
What is the installation process like?
The contractor who will install the charging dock will first obtain the required permit, which typically takes 1–2 days,
though it may take longer in some areas. Then the contractor will come to the customer’s home at the scheduled
time to complete the installation.
Standard installations may take up to 6 hours to complete. Complex or “custom”
installations may take longer. The contractor will verify the charging dock is working
properly via a vehicle simulator tool. They will also show the customer how the
charging dock works and ensure that the customer feels comfortable operating the
dock. Afterward, the contractor will order a required inspection and close the permit.
In most markets, the customer can begin using the charging dock upon completion
of the installation. The contractor will advise the customer if this is acceptable in the
community where the customer resides.
The in-home charging dock and standard installation start at about $2,200, plus
permit fees and sales tax (pricing may vary based on a number of factors). Payment
is arranged when the customer requests an installation appointment on the Nissan
LEAF microsite. They can either pay for the charging dock with a credit card or make
arrangements to finance the dock with their vehicle purchase.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
01-30-2011, 02:20 PM
Use this information to answer some of the typical
questions Nissan LEAF shoppers may raise.
Q: How far can I drive on a single charge?
A: Nissan LEAF will have a range of 100 miles per
charge under average, everyday driving conditions1.
Actual range will vary depending upon driving, charging
habits, speed, conditions, weather, temperature, and
battery age. In addition, battery capacity will decrease
with time and use.
Q: How long does it take to charge the battery?
A: Nissan LEAF is designed to accommodate three
levels of charging.
Level 1 — Trickle (110V):
• Full charge in about 20 hours
• Adequate for emergency use only
Level 2 — Standard (240V):
• Full charge in 8 hours
• Can be done with in-home charging dock and
various public and private locations
Level 3 — Quick (commercial-grade):
• 80% charge in about 30 minutes
• Can be done only at a public quick charge dock
Q: Does the battery drain when the car isn’t moving?
A: No power is used to idle. However, lights, audio
system, and other features will drain the battery.
Q: Is the infrastructure in place to support electric
vehicles?
A: Nissan is helping to establish a wide network of
charging docks. By the time of mass-production, much
of this infrastructure will be in place.
Nissan is working with government agencies and
utilities to make it easier for private parties to install
commercial charging docks on streets, in parking
lots, and in residences. Nissan is also urging utility
companies to install public charging docks in their
service regions to help develop the infrastructure.
Nissan LEAF’s navigation system will display nearby
charging docks and will receive periodic updates of
new charging docks in your area.
Q: What if the battery runs out of power and
I’m stranded?
A: Nissan LEAF has a range of approximately 100 miles
on a single charge. According to the U.S. Census
Bureau, the average American’s daily commute time is
about 50 minutes round trip, which should easily fall
within the 100-mile range. A single charge per day is
sufficient for many driving scenarios.
To ensure you always have a means of recharging,
Nissan LEAF is designed to accommodate three levels
of charging. And Nissan is working with government
agencies and utilities to help establish a wide network
of charging docks. By the time of mass-production,
much of this infrastructure will be in place.
Nissan LEAF owners will receive Roadside
Assistance support during the basic warranty period
of 3 years/36,000 miles. Benefits include:
• Flatbed towing to the closest EV-certified dealer
(mechanical breakdown or accident)
• Battery-depletion tow to the customer’s home,
nearest EV-certified dealer, or nearest charging dock
(customer’s choice, within reason)
• Tire change
• Lockout service
• Winching (vehicle off road)
• Emergency travel expense/trip interruption benefits
Nissan LEAF includes a number of advanced
technologies to help you manage vehicle range and
battery charging. Via a real-time connection with a
global data center, you can find where the closest
charging docks are, their hours of operation, and whether
they have quick or standard chargers. The navigation
system display shows the driving radius within range
under the current state of charge. The system can also
calculate whether the vehicle is within range of a pre-set
destination, like your home or office. And when you’re not
driving, you can monitor the state of charge of the battery
online or by a Web-enabled phone. For example, you
can receive an e-mail when the battery is fully charged.
Addressing Nissan LEAF™
Customer Concerns
For Dealer Personnel Only
Copyright 2010 by Nissan North America, Inc.
1 Based upon U.S. EPA LA4 city cycle conducted in laboratory tests. See http://www.
fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml Battery capacity decreases with time
and use. Actual range will vary depending upon driving/charging habits, speed,
conditions, weather, temperature, and battery age.
®
Q: What if I want to go farther in one trip than a single charge allows?
A: Nissan LEAF includes a number of advanced technologies to help you manage vehicle range. The navigation system display shows the driving radius within range, and it can display charging docks along your route. And when you’re not driving, you can monitor the state of charge of the battery online or by a Web-enabled phone. Plus Nissan LEAF’s quick charge capability means the battery can be charged to 80% in about 30 minutes. So you can recharge the battery in the time it takes you to stop for a quick lunch, and receive an e-mail when the charging is complete.
Q: Is this a real car?
A: The engineers and designers behind Nissan LEAF worked to create a competitively priced, real-world car that would enable Nissan to lead mobility into the zero emissions era. And to ensure comfort, spaciousness, and cargo capacity to meet customers’ real-world needs, Nissan LEAF employs a completely new chassis and body layout.
Its driving performance is suited for highway travel, it has undergone extensive crash testing and offers a wide range of safety features, and it offers some of the latest comfort and convenience features you would find in luxury cars.
Q: What is the acceleration and top speed?
A: Nissan LEAF has surprising acceleration. The exact specifications are still under development; however, it does have a top speed of approximately 90 mph, and it does have 100% torque at 0 rpm. That means it has great off-the-line acceleration.
Q: I need to carry passengers and cargo — will Nissan LEAF be able to do that?
A: Nissan LEAF is a family car, with ample passenger and cargo space. It seats five and can carry two sets of golf clubs in the cargo area. Compared to Toyota Prius and Honda Insight, Nissan LEAF is expected to offer comparable — or better — head room, leg room, and cargo capacity.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
01-30-2011, 02:22 PM
80 kW AC synchronous motor
DC power from the battery passes through
an inverter, where it is converted to AC
power for the motor. The motor sends the
power to the drive-wheels.
Regenerative braking system
When the vehicle is decelerating, the
system recovers kinetic energy from the
front wheels and converts it into electrical
energy to recharge the battery.
Suspension
Nissan LEAF features an independent
strut front suspension and stabilizer bar.
The front wheels react independently to
changes in the road surface, helping to
provide a smoother ride, improved driver
control, and optimum traction. The stabilizer
bar helps improve handling and driver
control by helping keep the vehicle level
during cornering.
Nissan LEAF also has a torsion beam
rear suspension with integrated stabilizer
bar. The compact torsion beam design
increases cabin and cargo space.
Instrument panel
The high-quality digital gauges and vehicle
information system are designed for intuitive
communication with the driver. Included is
a trip computer with information on instant
and average energy consumption, driving
time, and driving range.
Palm-shift drive selector
Nissan LEAF’s shifter is a “toggle” type.
To select a drive position, move the shifter
to the left, and then move it forward for
Reverse or rearward for Drive. When
released, the shifter returns to its starting
position.
Comfort and convenience
Standard equipment includes:
• Nissan Intelligent Key with Push Button
Ignition
• Remote keyless entry with keyfoboperated
power-down front windows
• Bluetooth® Hands-free Phone System1
• Nissan Navigation System2
Optional equipment includes:
• HomeLink® Universal Transceiver
• RearView Monitor3
• Solar panel spoiler (provides charging to
12-volt accessories battery)
Electric power steering (EPS)
EPS helps contribute to overall efficiency.
Power assist varies based on actual vehicle
speed to provide optimum steering effort
and road feel for various driving conditions.
Shift-by-wire drive selector
The system selects drive modes
electronically instead of using a
conventional cable. There is no
transmission like in a conventional
vehicle, but the experience is like
driving an automatic.
IT system
Every Nissan LEAF comes equipped
with advanced technology to make zeroemission
driving convenient, including a
navigation system with XM NavTraffic® and
a Nissan Connection system with access
via the Internet or Web-enabled phone.
Headlights and taillights
Nissan LEAF’s headlights are
aerodynamically shaped, to help
reduce drag and wind noise by
routing air around the outside
mirrors. Plus, the headlights and
taillights use LEDs (light-emitting
diodes), which require less
electrical power than
conventional halogen
and HID xenon bulbs.
Lithium-ion battery
Nissan LEAF’s lithium-ion battery is made
up of 48 compact, laminated battery
modules. Breakthrough laminated design
delivers twice the power and range of
previous lithium-ion batteries6 in a package
that’s half the size.
Nissan LEAF’s battery has a capacity of 24
kWh and an output of approximately 90 kW.
Center stack
The “floating” design of the center stack
and the piano-black trim lend an upscale
appeal to the interior.
Seat fabric
Nissan LEAF’s seat fabric is made of
recycled material. In fact, many of Nissan
LEAF’s components are made of recycled
materials7. All Nissan LEAF models come
with Gray interior.
Safety features
Nissan LEAF offers an assortment of
standard safety equipment:
• Nissan Advanced Air Bag System4
• Driver and front-passenger seat-mounted
side-impact supplemental air bags
• Roof-mounted curtain side-impact
supplemental air bags
• Front seat belts with pretensioners and
load limiters
• Front-seat Active Head Restraints
• LATCH system
• Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS)
• Vehicle Dynamic Control5 (VDC)
• Traction Control
System (TCS)
Nissan LEAF™ Feature Overview
For Dealer Personnel Only
Copyright 2010 by Nissan North America, Inc.
®
Nissan LEAF™ Feature Overview
1 Availability of specific features is dependent upon the phone’s Bluetooth® support. Please refer to your phone owner’s manual for details. Cell phone not included. The Bluetooth word mark and logos are owned by Bluetooth SIG, Inc., and any use of such marks by Nissan is under license.
2 Never program while driving. GPS mapping may not be detailed in all areas or reflect current road regulations. Nissan Navigation System may be inoperable in some areas. It is operational in the United States and Canada.
3 The RearView Monitor is a convenience, but is not a substitute for proper backing procedures. Always turn and check that it is safe to do so before backing up. May not detect every object behind you.
4 Air bags are only a supplemental restraint system; always wear your seat belt. Even with the occupant-classification sensor, do not use rear-facing child restraints in the front-passenger’s seat. Also, all children 12 and under should ride in the rear seat properly secured in child restraints, booster seats, or seat belts according to their size. Air bags will only inflate in certain accidents. See your owner’s manual for more details. Side air bags and side curtain air bags are designed to inflate in higher severity side collisions and inflate on the side of the vehicle impacted. Please see your owner’s manual for more details.
5 VDC, which should remain on when driving except when freeing the vehicle from mud or snow, cannot prevent accidents due to abrupt steering, carelessness, or dangerous driving techniques. Always drive safely.
6 Performance at beginning of battery life.
7 Post-consumer recycled materials will exceed 30%.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
01-30-2011, 02:24 PM
I hope this answers the general questions about the Leaf

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
01-30-2011, 03:16 PM
Some info i found via the EPA

your Nissan LEAF™ is built to go 100 miles on a single charge*how far you'll go will depend on a number of variables

DISCLAIMER *Based upon EPA LA4 test cycle conducted in laboratory tests. See http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml . Gradual loss of capacity in battery will result with time and use. Actual range will vary depending upon driving/charging habits, speed, conditions, weather, temperature, and battery age.

depending on the conditions, when your battery is new your range may vary anywhere from 138 - 62 miles. range is most affected by:Climate control – the more extreme the temperature is outside, the more energy used to heat or cool the cabin.

Speed – higher speeds require much more energy to overcome air resistance.

Driving style – smooth acceleration and deceleration will extend range while aggressive acceleration and deceleration will decrease range.

Cargo and topography – heavy cargo and driving up steep long inclines will reduce range.

there are an infinite number of range scenarios*, based on many variables. here are just a few, starting with the EPA LA4 test cycle:EPA LA4 test cycle: 100 milesThe Nissan LEAF has been tested under the EPA Urban Dynamometer Driving Schedule, a laboratory test commonly called the LA4 test cycle, which represents city driving conditions. Top speed is 56.7 mph and average speed is 19.59 mph. Ambient temperature can vary from 68 - 86 degrees. Climate control is off. The Nissan LEAF easily achieved 100 miles.

Ideal driving conditions: 138 milesSpeed: Constant 38 mph

Temperature: 68 degrees

Climate control: Off

Driving on a flat road at a constant 38 mph means less air resistance, and therefore less energy use. And at 68 degrees, there's no need for climate control, extending the range even further. The result: a range boost up to 138 miles.

Suburban driving on a nice day: 105 milesSpeed: Average 24 mph

Temperature: 72 degrees

Climate control: Off

The average speed in this scenario is 24 mph; common when commuting and running errands. The ambient temperature is 72 degrees and the climate control is off. Not using the air conditioner and driving at slower speeds mean less energy use and a little extra range.

Highway driving in the summer: 70 milesSpeed: Average 55 mph

Temperature: 95 degrees

Climate control: On

Averaging 55 mph on the highway, in 95 degree weather, with the air conditioning on high may produce range figures like this. Higher speeds require more energy to overcome air resistance. Running the air conditioner means energy that could be used to increase range instead goes to cooling the car.

Cross-town commute on a hot day: 68 milesSpeed: Average 49 mph

Temperature: 110 degrees

Climate control: On

Driving from a rural area into the city at an average 49 mph with the a/c on high may produce this range. Under these conditions, climate control combined with higher-speed driving produces increased energy consumption, hence the effect on range.

Winter, urban stop-and-go, traffic jam: 62 milesSpeed: Average 15 mph

Temperature: 14 degrees

Climate control: On

Though the average speed is only 15 mph with stop-and-go traffic, the 14-degree temperature means the heater is doing a lot of work so you spend considerable time and energy heating your car rather than moving forward. Despite these conditions, it would still take more than 4 hours to run out of charge!

rjracin240
01-30-2011, 08:46 PM
[QUOTE=j.*third on other cars, prius, volt are HYBRID electric vehicles, the Leaf is 100% electric and they should not be compared apples to apples.

The consumer does not want this car, the government does.
I will post some pdf's that i have from the leaf training[/QUOTE]

I need to buy some Nissan Stock, A million Electric vehicles/Leafs according to Barrack by 2015, guess Nissan will be doing very well since Nissan is the only company making a true electric vehicle, or maybe he was talking about golf carts:confused:

http://ecopolitology.org/2011/01/27/getting-to-obamas-goal-of-1-million-electric-vehicles/

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
01-30-2011, 09:04 PM
The 2011 Leaf is the only 100% mass-produced electric car for the public on the market right now and it's not in showroom floors yet, we are expecting our first within 2 weeks. Now Ford has a 2012 Focus Electric and Toyota has a 2012 Rav4-EV both will be out possibly later this year or early next year. 2011 Ford Transit Connect EV is a light duty van that is for sale right now, ford says upto 80 mile range for the van.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
01-30-2011, 09:22 PM
Of course you could just buy a 2011 Tesla Roadster starting at $109,000 and go 227 miles between chargers :D

j2nh
01-30-2011, 10:30 PM
Sorry, but I won't be in line to purchase one, at least not yet. If i could dedicate a vehicle for my wife to drive exclusively for work I might consider it. Life being what it is, my family can't be limited to one of our cars having such a short range. I'm out of town, wife needs to make multiple trips to her office, then the kids to after school activities. Running out of juice is just not an option. Very expensive, limited use vehicles and they can be made obsolete with one upgrade in battery technology.

Batteries are not my area of expertise but everything I read says we are not there yet and may not be for 5 years or more. Disposal, shorter charging times and significantly longer range would be a prerequisite for me. I personally see more of a future in Compressed Natural Gas, CNG. We have an abundant supply in the US and the technology to make it happen right now. It would require and investment in fuel stations via pipelines but that would put a lot of people back to work.

maxpower220
01-30-2011, 11:08 PM
I think once the Electric car thing catches on, batteries will be much like computers. In 5 yrs, todays batteries will seem silly. If you need to buy them, they will be cheap. In 5 yrs, the batteries will probably hold more power, charge in less time, and be cheaper.

My wife has a Fusion Hybrid for 1.6 yrs. If this is the future of auto, I like it. Her car is great.

captain planet
01-31-2011, 01:47 PM
This was not a very friendly post CP, look at what it takes and whats in all those batteries before you grind the car up. At least I was smart enough to know Algore was a charlatan and a phony. I don't just believe every fool that says the earth is in danger constantly from man. Keep getting your news from CNN and MSNBC and you will sleep happy.

I watch neither of these.

Jesus_Freak
02-03-2011, 07:37 AM
I hope this answers the general questions about the Leaf

Thank you. Well, in terms of answered questions, only your post # 41 gets some into the data; however, this is still not consumer data. I want to know how these range numbers change after weeks and months of driving. (The first few charges on a batter or normally the best.)

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
02-05-2011, 01:05 PM
When the Leaf hits the streets and I have customer information I will post the results, however the car is so new it might take some time.

Itatnepteri
02-05-2011, 07:33 PM
I would so go for a GTR if I could...although its not just a posh Nissan, its a fully fledged supercar, with super prices. I remember someone posting an ebay link to a set of tyres for the GTR, £1300

Jesus_Freak
03-27-2011, 04:55 PM
Any real, useful Leaf data out there?

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
03-27-2011, 07:25 PM
My dealership still hasn't even took delivery out first one yet.

Jesus_Freak
05-08-2011, 07:25 AM
Data check?

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-08-2011, 09:54 AM
Still nothing, the word on the street its still going to be at least several weeks away, bc of the disasters in Japan.

Lazers
05-19-2011, 03:45 PM
indianapolis car loan (http://www.billestes.com/)
(Note 1: Although the title says "Nissan Leaf", I am looking for data on any fully electric vehicle.)
(Note 2: Neither me, nor my family, nor my friends have any affiliation with Nissan Corporation or its subsidiaries.)

As we see the introduction of this fully electric vehicle (http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/index?dcp=ppn.39666654.&dcc=0.216878497#/leaf-electric-car/index) (and others) in the US later this year, I would like to collect real consumer information and feedback on just how well the overall program works, such as:

1. Range - town and highway
2. Charge time - 240 and 120
3. Effects of using the heating and cooling systems on the range
4. Battery life and replacement costs
5. Costs of electricity-based versus gasoline/diesel-based transportation
6. Options for "plugging up" along travel route, i.e. infrastructure
7. Normal consumer info, such as repairs and longevity
8. Tax credit execution - does it work?

Please post any real experience (no advertisement garbage) you have or know of as the electric vehicles start being driven...
Yeah I have seen a few commercials for the Leaf and it looks cool. I like it's name too. I would expect it will get good reviews as they seemed to take there time with it and not rush it. Also, Nissan has a good reputation.

87MCProstar
05-20-2011, 09:10 AM
are the rumors I'm hearing about these electric cars (Leaf/Volt) true, they don't have heat? I was talking to someone yesterday who said they don't have fans from the small combustion motors to blow a significant amount of heat, he described that as enough to defrost the windshield on a mid winter morning in New England. I'm not sure I buy that thought...fact or fiction??

mattsn
05-20-2011, 09:24 AM
Local dealer of great cars, Sweet Cars just got a black Tesla. Checked it out and the torque and quiet ride are amazing. Now where is that spare 90K needed to purchase?

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-20-2011, 10:03 AM
are the rumors I'm hearing about these electric cars (Leaf/Volt) true, they don't have heat? I was talking to someone yesterday who said they don't have fans from the small combustion motors to blow a significant amount of heat, he described that as enough to defrost the windshield on a mid winter morning in New England. I'm not sure I buy that thought...fact or fiction??

Those rumors are wrong both cars have full heat, the volt has a gas engine to recharge the batteries while driving the volt is a plug in electric hybrid vehicle and the leaf is all electric no gas engine.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
05-20-2011, 10:15 AM
There is a NASA engineer who now has a Leaf in League City which is south of Houston, I don't have any data on him yet. My chevrolet store has also delevered 2 volts and the nissan dealership has not delevered any Leafs yet, no consumer data. These cars are slowly getting out there.

87MCProstar
05-23-2011, 11:32 AM
Thats what I figured, the guy I heard it from is an extremely conservative rep. and doesn't like anything that is happening anywhere.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
06-28-2011, 04:46 PM
We finally received a LEAF, its for demo use only at this time and not for sale at this time per Nissan USA...
Pictures will follow...

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
06-28-2011, 05:11 PM
pics of LEAF

squishd
06-29-2011, 02:29 AM
I think that there are reveiws out on the web. I would not buy one.

Jesus_Freak
07-16-2011, 01:06 PM
pics of LEAF

Thanks James. Please supply data when available.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-17-2011, 05:56 PM
Thanks James. Please supply data when available.

I was at a training class 3 weeks ago and the facilitators said there is a reprogram coming for the ecm management systems for the batteries for longer usage, I guess its not getting the overall distance nissan was hoping for. As for first hand knowledge our demo has a couple hundred miles on it but they are not keeping accurate charge times on it. They charge it every night so its 100% for any customers that want to test drive the Leaf. I have no real customer Leaf data right now but I'm keeping an ear open.

Jesus_Freak
07-24-2011, 09:27 AM
I was at a training class 3 weeks ago and the facilitators said there is a reprogram coming for the ecm management systems for the batteries for longer usage, I guess its not getting the overall distance nissan was hoping for. As for first hand knowledge our demo has a couple hundred miles on it but they are not keeping accurate charge times on it. They charge it every night so its 100% for any customers that want to test drive the Leaf. I have no real customer Leaf data right now but I'm keeping an ear open.

That was what I was afraid of based on my knowledge of battery thermal systems management.

Thank you and please do.

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-24-2011, 10:58 AM
Basically they are saying that a/c and heater usage is taking a bigger bite out of the consumption, 23 miles reduced just for that.

Jesus_Freak
07-30-2011, 04:19 PM
Basically they are saying that a/c and heater usage is taking a bigger bite out of the consumption, 23 miles reduced just for that.

Thanks. Is it a "bigger bite" than they expected? I am surprised that they are surprised. :)

j.mccreight@hotmail.com
07-30-2011, 11:25 PM
They were shooting for 100 miles with avg ac/heat usage and only getting 75, this reprogram should help, get back to 100, but cars not regularly using ac and strictly city driving are getting over 100.