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Muttley
08-05-2010, 06:13 PM
Well, for the first time I've had some issues with the old 4010. I guess it's time for an upgrade to the 4160.

In my search for the best deal, I was wondering if any of you ever bought one from National Carburetors. I know a lot of you swear by Skidim, but these are half the price!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Holley-Marine-4-Barrel-Carb-Fits-Ford-V-8-351-80319-/300440261029?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear

Is this deal too good to be true?

zekedog
08-05-2010, 07:48 PM
I bought a 4160 two weeks ago from them. Got tired of my POS 4010. Just installed it two days ago. Boat fired right up using my fake-a-lake. I think I "offered" $239 or $240. No core required. Took them about 8 working days to get it here. 92 PS190 351 HO. Linkage hooked up with no problems. You must take the old linkage connector off the 4010. I bought 2 fuel hose connectors at Advanced Auto and 2ft of USCG approved fuel hose at my marina. Going out tomorrow night to play with it. I'll give you an update after. Remember there are 2 gaskets under the carb and spacer.

hkallestad
08-06-2010, 02:10 AM
I bought one from national this winter, been running strong all summer, I haven't read anything negative about these guys.

oldairboater
08-06-2010, 08:34 AM
I have something negative to say about National. I called them up to buy a carb a couple of months ago and they told me to call back at the end of the week. Whomever answered the phone was polite but he stated they were too busy to talk today. Never had anyone tell me that when I was trying to spend money with them before. Deleted their phone number and if I need a carb it will be bought from someone else.

jconover
08-06-2010, 01:14 PM
That's a shame; keep in mind one poorly trained phone operator may not be respective of the whole company. People hire kids, hire relatives - and especially in today's job environment, sometimes you get the wrong person. It's not an excuse for good customer service practices and training, but one experience like that shouldn't sway the whole community away from a vendor. Your own preference, is of course, your business.

MarkP
08-06-2010, 01:20 PM
Well, for the first time I've had some issues with the old 4010. I guess it's time for an upgrade to the 4160.

In my search for the best deal, I was wondering if any of you ever bought one from National Carburetors. I know a lot of you swear by Skidim, but these are half the price!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Holley-Marine-4-Barrel-Carb-Fits-Ford-V-8-351-80319-/300440261029?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear

Is this deal too good to be true?

Wow!!! What a timely link... I think I'm in the same boat as you.

T

oldairboater
08-06-2010, 04:11 PM
Sometimes you only get one chance to make a good impression. National blew it. Everyone makes their own decision of how they spend their money. I was not even going to get into this thread till the statement of no one being dissatisfied with National Carb. Well I was very dissatisfied and I posted it here in another thread that they blew me away till later in the week. An alternative solution was offered to me on this web site which I very much appreciated. They not only lost a customer--they gained someone who is willing to tell everyone he knows about his experience. There is someone else out there that not only wants your business but they also appreciate it. Is very much willing to talk to you all week instead of the end of the week. National may treat others different and they may have a good product but they didn't treat me in a fair and timely manner.That's a shame; keep in mind one poorly trained phone operator may not be respective of the whole company. People hire kids, hire relatives - and especially in today's job environment, sometimes you get the wrong person. It's not an excuse for good customer service practices and training, but one experience like that shouldn't sway the whole community away from a vendor. Your own preference, is of course, your business.

zekedog
08-07-2010, 07:13 PM
Took my boat out last night and it seemed to run o.k., not great. I know I have a bad cylinder that will be resolved this week. New intake, cam, lifters, timing/chain. Because of the "bad" #7 valve I wasn't expecting much. Just trying to limp through the week and enjoy the water with friends. No skiing, no high rpm's. Took it out today and couldn't get it to idle worth a crud. Never left the marina dock. Thinking I had a vacuum leak I lifted the doghouse. Upon further review the back bowl is leaking fuel onto my manifold. This carb has maybe an hour on it. None of the 4 bolts holding the back bowl on were slightly tight. I'm not real happy. Perhaps switching to Gentleman Jack will ease my tension...can't hurt at this point. Carb will be sent back to Jacksonville on Monday with a preliminary phone call. Will keep you posted.

Cloaked
08-07-2010, 09:00 PM
I have seen the rear bowl leak by the washers on the headed screws that usually result in not seating them carefully when putting in the screws. From that I have seen them get damaged and not function. Holley has these parts in a kit.

Also the inner gasket on the rear bowl can get off from the seating surface and leak.

Jacksonville is carb city of the world...

Muttley
08-09-2010, 11:52 AM
Took my boat out last night and it seemed to run o.k., not great. I know I have a bad cylinder that will be resolved this week. New intake, cam, lifters, timing/chain. Because of the "bad" #7 valve I wasn't expecting much. Just trying to limp through the week and enjoy the water with friends. No skiing, no high rpm's. Took it out today and couldn't get it to idle worth a crud. Never left the marina dock. Thinking I had a vacuum leak I lifted the doghouse. Upon further review the back bowl is leaking fuel onto my manifold. This carb has maybe an hour on it. None of the 4 bolts holding the back bowl on were slightly tight. I'm not real happy. Perhaps switching to Gentleman Jack will ease my tension...can't hurt at this point. Carb will be sent back to Jacksonville on Monday with a preliminary phone call. Will keep you posted.

Hmmm.... This one concerns me. A rebuilt carb should be good as new. If they screwed up their rebuild, along with OAB's lousy customer service, it may seem you get what you pay for.

Well, no hurry. It was going to be a winter project. I can get through the summer.

mayo93prostar
08-09-2010, 12:44 PM
Lets be fair, the carb from National is a rebuild. The one from skidim is new.

zekedog
08-09-2010, 03:52 PM
Spoke with Brenda at National's customer service. Very nice. I sent the carb back today. She gave me the name of the lead tech to address it to. Said I would have it back by the weekend.

Muttley
08-10-2010, 11:38 AM
Lets be fair, the carb from National is a rebuild. The one from skidim is new.

Point taken! ;)

MarkP
08-11-2010, 12:11 AM
Hmmm.... This one concerns me. A rebuilt carb should be good as new. If they screwed up their rebuild, along with OAB's lousy customer service, it may seem you get what you pay for.

Well, no hurry. It was going to be a winter project. I can get through the summer.HeII fer 200 bucks I will let you know how it works out for me..:cool: They took the money fast anyhow..

Muttley
08-11-2010, 03:29 PM
Let me know how it works, Mark. I'm seriously considering it, too!

zekedog
08-26-2010, 03:41 PM
O.K., it gets worse with National Carburetor. They sent back my "repaired" carb after the back bowl was leaking. I had just finished rebuilding my top end. (There is a thread in here on that). Installed the "new" carb and went to the boat ramp to break in the new camshaft. After normal pumping to prime the carb my boat started. Quite a relief after all I had done. Let it idle at 2200 rpms for 30 minutes. Set the timing with a light. Took it for a spin. Didn't run like I thought it should. Had a hard time holding idle. I figured I had an intake manifold leak. I took the manifold off and put on another new set of gaskets and gasket sealer. Still had a rough idle and stalling issues. Boat would bog down when back barrels opened. What's wrong? I looked down the front barrels and noticed fuel was dumping into the carb. Not good. Brought the boat home and pulled out my old 4010 that was rebuilt a couple months ago by an old hot rodder. Now, the last time that carb was on my boat the rear valve on the #7 cylinder had a hole in the lifter and was toast. This time around my boat has a new Edelbrock intake, camshaft, lifters, and timing gear/ chain. The boat fired right up, went into a perfect idle, and runs like a NASCAR. The elecrric choke is not even on the carb. So...the 2nd rebuilt carb was bad as well. I called National and they acted concerned because "all their carbs are bench tested before leaving." They just sent an email to tell me the carb I sent back (2nd time) in the original box with original packing material was all broken up when they recieved it? I failed to mention the first carb I recieved had a broken electric choke as soon as I took it out of the box. Either FedEx is banging these up in transit or they are doing half-assed work in J-ville. I'm requesting my money back and using my 4010 until the season is over.

oldairboater
08-27-2010, 08:10 AM
Sometimes it is cheaper to buy a new one. Companies live and die over reputation and customer satisfaction most of the time. Never had a problem shipping with fed-ex but UPS has managed a few times to destroy my parts. They always blame it on packing.

ROB
08-30-2010, 12:33 AM
I know $200 bucks is $200 bucks. But, I chose to go new on my '89 240 Maristar, glad I did. $430 landed from Jegs. Purchased 6/09. Yes, it is a 4160 Holley marine carb with electric choke.

Nvrgvup
09-02-2010, 10:59 PM
I got a replacement new carb from Holley because of the corrosion issues they were having around 06'. Rebuilding it wasn't an option because the corrosion was just going to continue. I was thinking about getting one from National however I was just apprehensive of getting one of Holley's defected carbs that was rebuilt.

The new one is great!! Pre-tuned, just bolt on and go. Tried to tune it and I ended up back where they had it set.

Whatever you do just to make sure to keep the linkage coupling and stud off the carb.

I also think you can order the marine 4160's for the 351w from AZone. If I remember their prices were about the best I could find for new.

zekedog
09-17-2010, 04:48 PM
Wow, this just keeps getting better from National Carb. Took them about 2 weeks to send back my 3rd carb. Tried it last weekend. Same exact results. (I think this is the definition of stupidity...doing the same thing, expecting different results?). This time, after a few barley pops, decided to carefully remove the "USGC Approved" sticker from the airhorn. This is where it gets good. Under the sticker, was 1850-2 with 0376 stamped under that. I sent Holley tech support an email see below...

HI,
thanks for your e-mail
the 1850-2 is not a marine carb
it is a universal 600 CFM automotive carb I would return it Thanks Ricky

Your question was:
I purchased a carburetor from National Carb in Jacksonville. They advertised it as a 4160 80319-1 Marine carb. I removed the USCG sticker from the air horn to reveal 1850-2 with 0376 under that. Has the 1850-2 EVER been a marine carb from Holley? Thanks Kevin- Nashville

...So, add a couple J tubes and call it a 80319-1. Slick marketing. Also, potentially deadly on a boat. If I put SS emblems on a Chevelle does it then become a Super Sport?

Spend the extra $250. Buy new. I have wasted 2 months of summer dealing with this. I wonder if my boat caught fire if the insurance would have paid out after they saw the carb?

MarkP
05-09-2012, 02:12 PM
Let me know how it works, Mark. I'm seriously considering it, too!
Muttley… My national experience was a screaming train wreck.. DIM, on the other han rocks out loud. It took about 8 months to know just how bad national blew it (had to put the boat away for the winter before anything was resolved).. Anyway thought I would throw this up here..

zekedog
06-11-2012, 10:01 AM
Just bought a new 4160 80319-1 from Atlantic Speed Sports. Ebay about $475 delivered. Fast shipping. Bolted it on. Adjusted the idle after warm up. Felt like my boat was fuel injected. Very smooth. Made a couple ski runs. Only problem was I smelled gas after it sat for an hour after running hard. Was pretty warm in downtown Nashville on Saturday. Read some of the threads here about making some minor adjustments to the screws on each side. On my to-do list.

Got a question. The 4160 has a small port under the arrestor just above the throttle. It has a black cap on it. I have seen a bunch of pics on this site where the cap is still on. Where is the clear overflow hose coming up from the fuel pump going? I assume that is where the fuel pump overflow hose plugs in? Indmar 351. 92'

Thanks

Ski Squam
06-12-2012, 03:53 AM
What Idle setting works best?
I just installed a new 4160 purchased new from Skidim on my '93 PS 205 w/ 351 HO w/ the help of my brother-in-law. It ran great the first few times out. My wife takes it out and it began to run rough and stalled after extended forward idle going though channels that connect coves and no wake zones on the lake. She had a hard time getting restarted. The idle was set around 650 or so. Next day I bumped the idle up to 900rpm, took it out for a short ride and seems run great again. The next step was to do a full tune up w/ new plugs, cap, and wires which I had done less than a 100 hrs of run time ago. Another tune up wouldn't hurt, but was wondering what idle is recommended/works best.

mayo93prostar
06-12-2012, 06:46 AM
idle should be around 650 when in gear and a little higher in neutral. You may need to adjust your floats a little as it may be putting too much gas in at idle or when shut off. the problems you note are not fixed by adjusting idle, there is something else wrong like float setting, fuel/air mixture, etc. Do not hesitate to call SKIDIM and talk to Vince or someone there to get help.

thatsmrmastercraft
06-12-2012, 09:52 AM
What Idle setting works best?
I just installed a new 4160 purchased new from Skidim on my '93 PS 205 w/ 351 HO w/ the help of my brother-in-law. It ran great the first few times out. My wife takes it out and it began to run rough and stalled after extended forward idle going though channels that connect coves and no wake zones on the lake. She had a hard time getting restarted. The idle was set around 650 or so. Next day I bumped the idle up to 900rpm, took it out for a short ride and seems run great again. The next step was to do a full tune up w/ new plugs, cap, and wires which I had done less than a 100 hrs of run time ago. Another tune up wouldn't hurt, but was wondering what idle is recommended/works best.

This sounds like a too rich idle mixture screw setting. Check to see where they are set by screwing them in and counting the number of turns until they lightly seat. They should be about 1.5 turns out. You could have a float setting that is wrong, but unlikely on a new carb. With the engine idling and full warmed up, remove the flame arrestor and carefully look into the carb while the engine is idling in gear and look to see if there is any amount of fuel coming out the venturis in the throat of the carb.

This is a great resource for learning and understanding how your Holley carb works.

http://www.holley.com/TechService/Library.asp

Ski Squam
06-12-2012, 10:25 PM
Thanks for the link and the insight, I'll start with the idle mixture screw setting when I get back on the boat this weekend and post an update.

thatsmrmastercraft
06-12-2012, 11:24 PM
Thanks for the link and the insight, I'll start with the idle mixture screw setting when I get back on the boat this weekend and post an update.

Good luck.

Ski Squam
06-17-2012, 11:20 PM
I adjusted both mixture screws and seems to be running very well. I first turned clockwise till lightly snug. Both sides turned in only about 3/4 of a turn till bottomed out. Then backed them each out 1 and 1/4 turns out and then reset the idle to 650 rpm. Took it for a long slow ride in forward idle to see if it would "load up" or stumble, but no problem. Kind of counter-intuitive. I would have thought I woud have needed to be leaning the mixture.
Same story, different issue: When running it up to full throttle relatively slowly, I get the rpm to 4800 with a little throw left in the lever, push it to the stop and the power drops off, pull it back an inch or two and the power comes back in. It also did this prior to the above mixture adjustment. Again this new 4160 and is a new replacement for the original '93 4100 Holley. Why the flat spot on top? Is there a throttle stop adjustment?

blackcreek
06-18-2012, 07:05 AM
Pull the flame arrestor off and check to see the where the butterflies are at full throttle. My guess is they are going past 90 degrees. If they are not exactly perpendicular at full throttle you need to adjust the throttle cable or carb linkage.

thatsmrmastercraft
06-18-2012, 10:37 AM
Can you hear the secondaries open up when you really get into it?