Reverse Rotation Engine?

[smaihlee]

Hubby bought a '76 Tournament Ski last summer, and we're unfortunately having to replace the engine before we crank her up this summer. He thinks it has a reverse-rotation engine, but isn't 100% sure.

Anyone have knowledge about the specs on this particular model or advice on how to check whether it's a reverse?

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

[6ballsisall]

Post a pic of the prop on the boat as you stand behind the stearn. We could tell you for sure from that angle, does the motor turn over?

[smaihlee]

It will be a few days before I can get the photo, since the boat is sitting in a friend's warehouse.

Best he can tell, the previous owners had a shoddy re-build done some years ago. I don't know the details, but it's causing us a great deal of stress. It's unfortunate, b/c if they'd had it done right we'd be the 2nd owners of the boat. Of course, if they'd done it right I guess they wouldn't have sold it in the first place :cool:

[Cloaked]

It will be a few days before I can get the photo, since the boat is sitting in a friend's warehouse.

Best he can tell, the previous owners had a shoddy re-build done some years ago. I don't know the details, but it's causing us a great deal of stress. It's unfortunate, b/c if they'd had it done right we'd be the 2nd owners of the boat. Of course, if they'd done it right I guess they wouldn't have sold it in the first place :cool:Please describe what you mean? A reverse engine??? (Engines have LH or RH rotation, so reverse is irrelevant to what was originally in it, if you don't know that) :confused:

What engine is in the boat? Make / model??? There is an engine ID number. Post it please....

Is this a Msstercraft??? Nautique??? Who marinized the engine?? Pleasure Craft?? Also please post transmission info. It helps by seeing what was married to the engine from it's original equipment.

Thanks for helping me see the light!! :)

[smaihlee]

Sorry for the glaring omissions of key pieces of information. Not sure what I was thinking. If at all ;)

It's a Mastercraft. The engine is most definitely a Ford 351 / 5.8L / V8 / 240 HP. There is a serial # that's listed on the insurance paperwork--could that be the engine ID?

This whole issue might be resolved if he hadn't LOST the boat/engine manual that holds the key information. However, I used the manual to fill out the registration and I remember seeing that the engine was from PleasureCraft.

I've been looking online at re-manufactured engines and have pinpointed what we need based on the above, though all the 75 - 87 Ford 351's state that they come with either standard or reverse rotation. Herein lies the problem.

I'm the computer person in the house, and though hubby claims to be a pseudo-mechanic, I wouldn't be posting this on the board for him if he knew what he was talking about. Not being mean, just honest.

This is the first boat he has owned and really only has a couple dozen hours of hands-on with it. Unfortunately, most of the time has been spent squirting a can of ether into the engine while floating in the middle of the lake, all while several women and young children moan and groan at each stroke of the oars as they row toward the nearest dock.

OK. That might be a little dramatic. I'm glad he's not reading this :D

Thanks again for spending the time to help and respond!

[6ballsisall]

smai,

I am working on mine tommorrow and I will double check. But, if the engine at least turns over, not necessarily starts you could figure this out. Turn the engine over while facing the engine from the front side which will be the side with the Distributor and all the belts. If the harmonic balancer, (which is on the pulley system towards the bottom of the engine block ) rotates Clockwise as you face the engine (looking towards the stern) then it is a Standard/Left Hand Rotation Engine.
If it goes counterclockwise then you have a Right Hand Rotation Engine. Right hand rotation engines can be referred to a Reverse rotation engine so you did just fine with your terms.

Let me double check in the AM but I am 99.9% sure it's clockwise=Left Hand, Counterclockwise=Right hand. I'll post in the AM after done working on mine.

Oh, welcome to the site!! :steering:
Post some pics of the boat, I like seeing the old school rides!

[JEREMY79]

mine is a 79 and it rotates LH or standard. Clockwise as you are looking at the stern

[6ballsisall]

Smai, my early post is correct. Also, if you take the distributor cap off and have him turn over the engine. If the rotor spins counterclockwise it is a standard rotation. My guesstimate is that it would be a standard rotation engine

[Cloaked]

Hubby bought a '76 Tournament Ski last summer, and we're unfortunately having to replace the engine before we crank her up this summer. He thinks it has a reverse-rotation engine, but isn't 100% sure.

Anyone have knowledge about the specs on this particular model or advice on how to check whether it's a reverse?

Thanks in advance for any assistance!
I think Hubby is calling a LH rotation "reverse rotation" compared to a RH rotation as the basis for comparison. It doesn't really matter other than knowing what rotation direction to replace it with (if it comes to that).

Here's my guess from what you originally posted:
It currently has the stock engine and that engine is a LH rotation. Nothing special or reverse about it. It is what it is.... Done deal... One of the letters in the Hull VIN will indicate what direction the engine is but I feel sure that it's a LH rotation engine that MC has used for years.

A 76 model was fairly basic compared to what we know now about the various options and available engines / transmissions, etc.

Now what are you wanting to do with this information? If you're looking to replace the engine, you can do that with little trouble (generally speaking) or you can rebuild or repair the current engine (obviously).

As a suggestion for a replacement, look at a crate engine that is made with LH rotation. For a resource of info for further work on the boat to replace the engine, talk to the folks at Discount Marine and they will guide you through the process of getting you a replacement engine.
Unless it's trashed out or mechanically broken, there can't be a lot to do to get it running properly for dependable use. I'd forego replacing the engine for now. Patience at this point. :)

The number on the insurance paper is the Hull VIN. I think that is what I'd be looking for (contrary to my previous post). I'm just away from my computer this weekend for certainty and reference to notes. As long as the engine in it now is the original, the rotation direction will be indicated by an R or an L in the hull VIN. jrandol has also given an option if the engine will turn, but looking at the VIN is a sure way also. Don't confuse the issue with "reverse" terminology. It's irrelevant. It's either LH or RH rotation but it being the 240 HP 351, it is the Ford Windsor engine that is LH rotation. That is all you'll need to know for future work or replacement.

As for the problems on the lake, that engine may very well have carburetor problems but I can't say for sure from this point. It could be a number of things. Certainly if the engine has ran or is capable of starting, I'd consider rebuilding the carb or replacing it, particularly if it's a Holley model 4110 (if memory serves me) to a model 4160. The 4110 was notorious for problems. Then swap over the points in the distributor to an electronic setup. Well worth the investment of approx $100 for the ignition. A fuel pump would be in order for the sake of knowing you had a new one on it, a clean fuel filter, fresh plugs, a new impeller, and an oil change. Check the integrity and connections for all of your hoses. All of this will be far less expensive than a new engine (which is evident) but more so pointing out that all of this is simple enough to do at home.

I shop at www.skidim.com . Fine folks with excellent service and assistance whenever you need it. A weekend of maintenance and tweaking with these new parts will likely eliminate the problems on the lake. Patience with this. It will resolve with a little work....

[Cloaked]

............. My guesstimate is that it would be a standard rotation engine
Yes, standard for a Mastercraft (being LH rotation) but "reverse" for a Nautique.... :D LOL... :toast:

Smai, ignore this post. :popcorn:


JR, we'll have this one rebuilt by tomorrow and can start on another one.... :D

[6ballsisall]

mine is a 79 and it rotates LH or standard. Clockwise as you are looking at the stern


Hey Jeremy, are you sure about that? If it's a LH it should rotate Counterclockwise as you face the stern of the boat.

[Brn85ss]

From the front of the engine crank pulley ext. it's clock wise from the stern the prop turns counter clock wise.For a standard rotation.

[6ballsisall]

Lefty Loosey, Righty Tighty :D :purplaugh :purplaugh

[smaihlee]

Shiver me timbers!

The whole purpose of this is to order a re-man engine. Hubby can, with a little help, install an engine but he's not comfortable with a re-build or repair. Actually, I have already ordered the engine based on his "95% certainty" that it's a reverse rotation. What was this hypothesis based on? The fact that when he told several different buddies about the boat, they "all" said something to the effect of "that has a reverse rotation engine". Really bright, I know. He's very antsy to get the craft back in the water, and I'm just doing my wifely computer duties as requested.

Despite my misgivings, I went ahead and ordered the reverse rotation version of the 351 engine. I started nosing around on the internet and found no concrete information about this subject. I found this site and decided this would be the ideal place to get more info. I'm quite afraid that we've just made an expensive mistake. We may be able to call on Tuesday and get them to hold the order (they didn't have any in stock, so they were going to have to do a custom order) until we can get in the warehouse and check it out.

As far as the hull serial # goes, the first 3 letters are MBC. Hmmm, that doesn't help. Would the owners' manual give any clues???

Thanks for the ongoing detective work. This has the potential to get very interesting...

[6ballsisall]

If it was me I would call on Tuesday and put that engine on hold. I really am pretty sure it is a standard rotation engine. You'll be awful bummed if you get the wrong engine and have to send it back.
I don't know where you got it, I hope your husband did get a marine engine, there are differences that are important to have. I talked with Vince on Thursday (Skidim) they have some NEW not rebuilt PCM longblocks 351windsor standard rotation engines for $3k, no core or shipping extra! They are 255hp motors. Pretty good price!! He also told me PCM now has engine mounts that replace the Ford mounts so you can convert to a small block Chevy motor. That sounds tempting to me as 350's are cheaper to build up. Hmm.......

[JEREMY79]

Hey Jeremy, are you sure about that? If it's a LH it should rotate Counterclockwise as you face the stern of the boat.

No I'm not sure. I have looked at that thing so much....Its been seven months since I have seen i tturn over. :mad:

[Cloaked]

Shiver me timbers!

The whole purpose of this is to order a re-man engine. Hubby can, with a little help, install an engine but he's not comfortable with a re-build or repair. Actually, I have already ordered the engine based on his "95% certainty" that it's a reverse rotation. What was this hypothesis based on? The fact that when he told several different buddies about the boat, they "all" said something to the effect of "that has a reverse rotation engine". Really bright, I know. He's very antsy to get the craft back in the water, and I'm just doing my wifely computer duties as requested.

Despite my misgivings, I went ahead and ordered the reverse rotation version of the 351 engine. I started nosing around on the internet and found no concrete information about this subject. I found this site and decided this would be the ideal place to get more info. I'm quite afraid that we've just made an expensive mistake. We may be able to call on Tuesday and get them to hold the order (they didn't have any in stock, so they were going to have to do a custom order) until we can get in the warehouse and check it out.

As far as the hull serial # goes, the first 3 letters are MBC. Hmmm, that doesn't help. Would the owners' manual give any clues???

Thanks for the ongoing detective work. This has the potential to get very interesting...You have done a good job here.... But your engine is either LH or RH. "Reverse" is a (relative) figure of speech....

I know I'd repair the current engine unless it's wore slap-dab out..... these things will run for a long time.... I see guesstimates of a mere 2000 hours but these engines (IMHO) will run 4000+ hours, no prob.

But all-in-all, each to their own. Patience and a little research will prevail your interests in the path of least resistance....

At this point, this is beginning to become a basket of apples and oranges.... :) :) Best of luck and please feel free to visit here for any assistance that the fine folks here have to offer. These guys and gals are a wealth of information.

What you really want is a Ford 351 PCM LH engine. Done deal.

[Leroy]

I learned in college drafting, point your thumb in direction of the shaft and if your fingers fold in the way the engine turns its right hand. Otherwise LH. If the prop is on there you can double check from the way the blades are shaped.

Hey Jeremy, are you sure about that? If it's a LH it should rotate Counterclockwise as you face the stern of the boat.

[Cloaked]

I learned in college drafting, point your thumb in direction of the shaft and if your fingers fold in the way the engine turns its right hand. Otherwise LH. If the prop is on there you can double check from the way the blades are shaped.Roll the pencil too. No AutoCad back then... :D :D

Hi Leroy... 'Bout time you showed up... :worthy:

[JEREMY79]

Allright yall have gotten me to second guessing myself. I will post a pic of my prop tomorrow.

[JEREMY79]

here is the only pic I could find of my prop.

[Leroy]

Hey Sporty! Yes, I wasted time learning "real drafting" just before Autocad stuff came out. Water time is getting in the way of posting!

To see if we have consenus, Jeremy, looks like you prop is LH or counter clockwise, right?

[JEREMY79]

Yes it spins counter clockwise. That makes the engine a LH rotation right.

[Cloaked]

Hey Sporty! Yes, I wasted time learning "real drafting" just before Autocad stuff came out. Water time is getting in the way of posting!

To see if we have consenus, Jeremy, looks like you prop is LH or counter clockwise, right?How do ya' think I knew to roll the pencil??? :D

LH indeed. :toast: :steering: