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Shredman
06-26-2010, 06:48 PM
So now you will all tell me you told me so. I posted that I needed to replace an alternator and you all suggested I do it myself. I said it would be easier if I just pulled it from the dock and took it to the shop.

No way. I got the thing back, oil change, new alternator and tighten packing nut $460.00. I put it in the lake and got 300 yards from the dock and noticed that the temperature was going over the usual range. I also noticed the bilge pump kicked on. I checked the bilge and the water was up to the floor boards. I turned around to head back to the dock and midway, the engine went into protection mode. I idled back to the dock while water continued to pour in. The temperature guage showed 240.

I got the boat out and took it to the shop. The mechanic insisted that nothing he could have done could have caused the problem. What an a**h*le. TNT Watersports - Hendersonville, TN. They looked at the boat and called me later to tell me he had disconnected a cooling hose to get to the oil filter (I've changed the oil many times myself and never felt the need to disonnect the cooling hoses) and he forgot to hook it back up.

The owner was cool about it, took responsibility for it and apologized. They replaced the impeller and didn't charge me additional.

I put it back in the lake and the cooling works fine, but noticed that I am taking in a bunch of water now. I have had a small amount of water in the past, but this is significantly different. I found that one of the hoses connected to the water pump was leaking - amazing after nearly sinking my boat (with me on it) and then denying any possibility the event could have been romotely connected to the work he did - the mechanic apparently didn't check his work, again. I fixed it by simply loosening it and pushing it on further and tightening it again.

The water in the bilge is very hot, so obviously coming from the cooling system. I inspected all around the engine and found that there is a leak on the starboard side at the manifold gasket. It doesn't seem enough to cause the amount of water I am getting, but I am assuming the flow increases with throttle, and I am reluctant to run it too high RPM with no load while sitting at the dock. There are no other obvious leaks.

Is it possible that a leak at the manifold gasket could be caused by overheating?

Aything else I should check out?

By the way, it is an LT1 with a closed cooling system. Thanks for any advice in advance.

Ben
06-26-2010, 09:40 PM
Not to try and make you worry more, but I'd try and document somehow the boat overheated due to their error. LT1 has aluminum heads that may be more prone to warping from overheating. If anything got messed up, I'd hate for you to have to pay for someone else's goof.

Smarter people will be along later for more comments...

Jesus_Freak
06-26-2010, 10:50 PM
...I idled back to the dock while water continued to pour in. The temperature guage showed 240...

Total bummer dude! Sorry you have to go through this.

Keep in mind that 240F on the gauge doesnt mean that 240F is the peak temperature your equipment experienced. I have not digested your post carefully enough to determine whether or not any liquid was moving through your block. Little or no liquid flow means that the heat was not getting to the gauge except by conduction. In other words, it is likely that the metal tasted much higher temperatures (thermal stresses) than this.

boyd
06-26-2010, 11:45 PM
Free impellar ?? Whhhooooo hhhoooooo !!! Big deal. So they replaced the impellar they were responsible for burning up. It takes 15 minutes and $25 for that part.

They should have refunded you the money they charged you minus the parts.

They messed up your outing, overheated your boat and cost you a whole day boating and you are satisfied with $25. No way.

Your boat wasn't getting any water so your impellar was running dry, which, I'm sure burned it up.

I understand mistakes happen, however, they charged you for messing up your day, time and almost your boat.

Get your $ back for all the labor.

Also, always check your boat.

Here's what I do EVERYTIME ..... While the boat is on the trailor and in the water, I start the boat. While it is ideling I open the engine compartment to check for leaks.(takes 15 seconds)
After that, I undo the winch and drive off.

Good luck.

Jorski
06-26-2010, 11:49 PM
Jesus Freak said:
Little or no liquid flow means that the heat was not getting to the gauge except by conduction. In other words, it is likely that the metal tasted much higher temperatures (thermal stresses) than this.

I think he is exactly right. I would make this point to the dealer...they obviously didn't check their work, and handed it back to you in an unacceptable state. They may well have caused the heads to warp.

ski_king
06-27-2010, 07:49 AM
First off, I dont know much about closed cooling systems, so my comments may be off base. The only boat I ever worked on that had one was an old SN that had an non OEM system.

It sounds to me that the water found in the bilge at first was "lake" water from the raw water system and the 240 on the gauge was the engine coolant temp. My guess is the block didn't see temps higher than 240.

The leak you have now at the maniffold gasket could be a problem as it is on the closed side of the system. If you lose too much fluid, you could run dry.

Again, I dont know much about closed cooling systems, so my comments may be off base.

Shredman
06-27-2010, 09:15 AM
It sounds to me that the water found in the bilge at first was "lake" water from the raw water system and the 240 on the gauge was the engine coolant temp. My guess is the block didn't see temps higher than 240.

The leak you have now at the maniffold gasket could be a problem as it is on the closed side of the system. If you lose too much fluid, you could run dry.



I have previously stated my ignorance about mechanics, so, I may be incorrect. But I think the water going through the manifold is lake water. If I understand it correctly, It comes out of the heat exchanger with the exhaust through the manifold. The coolant flows inside the engine. So if correct, presumably the coolant was circulating, but was not being cooled by raw water through the heat exchanger. Any body know if this is correct?

I'll check the coolant reservour again. It is leaking so much off the manifold that it would be empty by now if it were coolant.

Also, can anyone confirm that the flow of the lake water through the system increases with throttle? It seems that it should. Again the dripping from the manifold is not enough to cause the amount of water in the bilge, but I am looking at it on the dock at idle, or slightly higher RPM as I am afraid to run it at higher rpm with no load on it. There are no other leaks that I can identify so I am assuming that it leaks more at throttle.

Would it hurt the engine if I raced it while not in gear?

Regarding the aluminum heads warping - is this something that would have already happened due to the heat, or may develop over time? There are no fluids leaking around the heads at this time - would this show up in the oil?

Lastly, the big question is whether the leakage at the manifold could have been caused by the overheating?

Fortunately, I was only putting the boat in to get it back to my dock, so it didn't ruin our day. Nearly sinking did raise my blood pressure and the whole ordeal cost me hours. I don't want my money back, and I'm afraid to let that guy touch my boat again to "fix" it. At this point, I wouldn't let him work on my bicycle. Mistakes are one thing. Arrogance that a mistake was not possible, and then a second mistake following the first, is the mark of someone who is destined to keep making the same mistakes of inattention and lack of care.

I'll let them know on Monday about the increased water in the bilge and the leak at the manifold. See what they say. No doubt they'll want me to pull it out of the water and bring it in yet again.

ski_king
06-27-2010, 09:27 AM
I believe you are correct, the water thru the exaust is lake water from the raw water pump. Yes the flow increases with RPM's.

Shredman
06-28-2010, 05:25 AM
Anybody have an opinion as to whether the overheating could have caused a leak at the manifold gasket? Thanks

Thrall
06-28-2010, 09:35 AM
It's possible, but I'd think if it got hot enough to damage a manifold gasket your exh hoses and muffler would be toast.
Sorry to hear about the poor perf of the repair shop.
Started out wrenching on my own stuff as a kid out of necessity (no money). Now I do it for the reason(s) you stated above!

rd1900
06-28-2010, 09:57 AM
I doubt the manifold gasket problem would be caused by the overheat. On your closed system, coolant would have still been circulating, and passing over the temperature sender, and the 240 degrees on the gauge would probably have been pretty accurate. 240 degrees isn't that hot, and the engine went into protect mode anyway.
Exhaust manifold gasket is not hard to change, this would be a great opportunity to learn to do it yourself!

ntidsl
06-28-2010, 09:59 AM
Am I the only nut case that always starts the engine with the engine cover open...and checkes to make sure water is going in hoses before leaving trailer and rechecks before leaving ramp area? I am the only one in my group of boaters that does this but i know when I pull out that my boat is dry, the cooling system is working properly and I'm safe. Also I dont have to run the blower so long.

jimmer2880
06-28-2010, 10:22 AM
Am I the only nut case that always starts the engine with the engine cover open...and checkes to make sure water is going in hoses before leaving trailer and rechecks before leaving ramp area? I am the only one in my group of boaters that does this but i know when I pull out that my boat is dry, the cooling system is working properly and I'm safe. Also I dont have to run the blower so long.

I wish I could do that. But - if I would, that would mean that I would have to wait to load my boat up with gear until after the boat is floating. The only design feature I feel is lacking on my MC is a clamshell motor box. It would be nice to be abel to open the motor box without ropes & gear sliding under it.

ski_king
06-28-2010, 10:48 AM
Am I the only nut case that always starts the engine with the engine cover open...and checkes to make sure water is going in hoses before leaving trailer and rechecks before leaving ramp area? I am the only one in my group of boaters that does this but i know when I pull out that my boat is dry, the cooling system is working properly and I'm safe. Also I dont have to run the blower so long.

Your not the only one, I do it also.

Yes the gear, I have stashed behind the drivers seat are a pain to deal with when opening the motor cover. But then again, it is always a good idea to start the engine with the motor box open after storing the boat for a week to make sure there are no fumes in the engine compartment.

ntidsl
06-28-2010, 11:19 AM
a good once over for the first minute is what i alwasy do, check all hoses, look for leaks, double check the plug...put your gear in the ski locker...I never have ropes or lines hanging around and ski jackets are in the lockers, I don't want to be tripping over lines and bumpers if I have to get around the boat real quick...

Jesus_Freak
06-28-2010, 01:03 PM
It sounds to me that the water found in the bilge at first was "lake" water from the raw water system and the 240 on the gauge was the engine coolant temp. My guess is the block didn't see temps higher than 240.

The leak you have now at the maniffold gasket could be a problem as it is on the closed side of the system. If you lose too much fluid, you could run dry.

Again, I dont know much about closed cooling systems, so my comments may be off base.

Indeed, I didnt input the mental energy required to understand the coolant flow in his particular system.

Regardless, however, there are most assuredly locations in the metal that are hotter than what is on the gauge. This is the case with any engine under any operating condition. I dont propose at this point that I know how much hotter...:)

Shredman
06-28-2010, 01:44 PM
I doubt the manifold gasket problem would be caused by the overheat. On your closed system, coolant would have still been circulating, and passing over the temperature sender, and the 240 degrees on the gauge would probably have been pretty accurate. 240 degrees isn't that hot, and the engine went into protect mode anyway.
Exhaust manifold gasket is not hard to change, this would be a great opportunity to learn to do it yourself!

Thanks. It is wierd that it is definately leaking more now than before, but probably not worth trying to get them to fix it. I have no confidence in them anyway.

I may try it myself. However, everytime I try to do something like this, I run into something unplanned (stripped bolt, need special tool, whatever) and end up taking it in anyway. This time going to the Mastercraft shop.

The only reason I didn't go there the first time was that it is 40 minutes away, while TNT is just down the street. Given the wasted time and almost sinking, it would have been worth the trip to drive the extra distance.

thatsmrmastercraft
06-28-2010, 02:52 PM
Add me to the list of always starting the first of the day with the motor cover open and overlooking everything before I head out. For me it is the best opportunity to have some organization on the floor and get the cover up.

An engine doesn't have to get ridiculously hot in order to lunch an exhaust manifold gasket, especially if you are dealing with an aluminum head. If the gasket is bad, I would get that head checked as it may no longer be true.

Shredman
06-29-2010, 09:28 PM
An engine doesn't have to get ridiculously hot in order to lunch an exhaust manifold gasket, especially if you are dealing with an aluminum head. If the gasket is bad, I would get that head checked as it may no longer be true.

Once again the disclaimer that I am not mechanically proficient, but isn't the manifold connected to the block, not the head? That may be a stupid question.

duffcam
06-30-2010, 11:17 AM
Compression check & cooling system pressure check will assure no cracked heads, no blown gaskets. Keep eye on oil dipstick to assure no water in the oil.

Thrall
06-30-2010, 11:40 AM
If it's still leaking a bunch of hot water (more than the manifold is leaking) and you can't find any hoses, block drain, etc that is leaking, have you looked at the heat exchanger/radiator? Maybe it's leaking.
Exhaust manifolds do connect to the heads.
Whether it's leaking or not, if it runs fineand no water in the oil and coolant not overflowing, then the sngine is liekly fine, no major overheat damage.

Shredman
07-05-2010, 01:54 PM
If it's still leaking a bunch of hot water (more than the manifold is leaking) and you can't find any hoses, block drain, etc that is leaking, have you looked at the heat exchanger/radiator? Maybe it's leaking.
Exhaust manifolds do connect to the heads.
Whether it's leaking or not, if it runs fineand no water in the oil and coolant not overflowing, then the sngine is liekly fine, no major overheat damage.

No water in the oil thankfully. It runs fine and no smoke, so head is probably fine. I noticed yesterday when I lowered the lift that the bilge was filling up even before I started it. I lowered the lift so the boat sat in the water today and looked all around. I found it was gushing from where the exhaust hose connects to the hull fitting.

I had found that it was leaking a little from where the exhaust hose connected to the manifold on the same side. I tried to get it off but couldn't get it to budge. I tightened down the clamps as hard as I could, but that didn't stop it.

The hose is impossible to reach at the hull fitting. How the heck do you guys work on these things?

Is there any trick to getting the hose to break loose so that it can be pushed on further?

I guess I'm back to the shop, but it will be the MasterCraft shop this time.