Boat Buddy-Keep it or dump it? + Continued Surge Brake Problems

[Jeff d]

I just bought this boat and trailer ('00 Maristar 230 VRS) but it came with a bent boat buddy. The pin misses the hole by 3/8" or so. I've been launching and retrieving boats by myself for 15 years or so without anything more than a typical bow roller, winch strap and a safety chain.

I've only launched this boat one time so far but the Boat Buddy didn't seem like a very valuable asset and without putting the back end of the truck in the water I couldn't get the bow eye all the way to the Buddy. I could see where it would be valuable on a closed bow boat but on the open bow I just power up the trailer then go lean over the front and connect the winch hook.

So, I could get another Boat Buddy II and hope I don't break it or I could get a 3 piece bow roller and a safety chain for about 1/3 of the price. Thoughts?

Also, the surge brakes didn't work at all when I got the boat. After I first bled the system I felt a couple of instances where they randomly decided to work. If I jack up one side of the trailer and trip the actuator both wheels spin with almost as much ease as when the mechanism is released.

I bought a pneumatic bleeder that connects to my compressor from Harbor Freight (BTW this (http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-fluid-bleeder-92924.html) tool is awesome) and completely purged the system of the old, rusty fluid and replaced it with DOT4 Synthetic. Still, no stopping power. So, I pulled apart one of the calipers and pushed the piston back with a C-clamp which didn't take any more effort then when I've done the same thing on automotive calipers so I don't think it's seized. Then I pumped the actuator 3-4 times and it protruded the piston some but not really a whole lot (3/16-1/4").

BTW, I have UFP-42 calipers. Based on my reading on here it sounds like a lot of MC trailers have Reliable calipers which are prone to seizing. Mine are different. Not sure if they're better or worse.

Would it make sense for the master cylinder to be able to pump fluid, just not with enough pressure to really clamp the calipers down? I just want to be reasonably confident where the problem lies before I start throwing parts/money at this problem.

Also, I can get all of the parts for a full rebuild of the actuator (Master cyl, shock, pushrod, friction pads, etc) for about $60-70 less than a new actuator. Others have recommended just buying the whole actuator. How can I know if the shock and pushrod are in need of replacement? I suppose it could even be the reversing solenoid somehow getting stuck into reverse mode.

Thanks,
Jeff

[Jeff d]

Forgot to mention: Life would be a lot easier with a swing away tongue. It's in the carport right now and I can't park the truck behind it because I hang out into the street about 6". I can angle the tongue to the side but this boat is a beast to move by hand.

I know the swing away mechanism is available in the after market but the way the front of the trailer is setup would have to be changed to accommodate it (See pic). The post that the winch and boat buddy are on angles towards the front and therefore doesn't leave much length to "swing away". So, in addition to adding the hinge mechanism I'd have to redesign that.

All of this leads me to question whether or not I should even mess with this trailer or just buy a suitable used one with working surge brakes and a swing away tongue then try to sell this one in its current state to offset some of the cost. I'm new to MasterCrafts and inboards in general but I know the trailers are pretty specific to each hull design. What other models' trailers would be suitable for an 00' 230 VRS? I assume that a 1st gen X-30 would work.

Is the trailer too specific to reasonably expect to find a used one like I'm looking for? Would it be equally unreasonable to expect to find a buyer interested in this specific trailer?

[Thrall]

If you take the master cyl apart (actuator) and the bore/piston isn't pitted, you can rebuild it, new seals. Sounds like it's jsut blowing by the seals. Asuuming you can get a rebuild kit for it. I just replaced the master cyl on the old boat.
In my experience, the calipers hanging up are 2 things (assuming the pistons move easily like you said). 1. The slides or bushings get corroded, so the caliper won't float. Easy fix, take everything apart and anti seize them (and teh bolts so they dont rust in again). The other cause of the brakes hanging up I've found is mostly in downhill driving. You hit the brakes, actuator compresses and then never fully releases because the boat is pushing the truck down hill. Everytime I hit the brakes going down a grade I slow down a bit more than necessary and then crack the throttle once to put some tension between the boat and truck to fully release the brakes. Habit now.
Personally I wouldn't spend the money on a new boat buddy. My old boat, it was messed up and i'd just put the pin thru after winching up for added safety. New boat, 1 landing a couple inches off center bent the crap out of it. I took it off, took it apart and straightened it out. Now I do the same, put the pin through manually.

[Jeff d]

The slides or bushings get corroded, so the caliper won't float. Easy fix, take everything apart and anti seize them (and teh bolts so they dont rust in again).

I did pull out the guide pin on the caliper that I inspected. It was totally lubeless but other than that there was no rust and I was able to move the caliper in and out by hand.

I lubed it up with caliper grease and put it back in. Once I get everything else sorted I'll grease the other 3 too.

I think you're right about the master cylinder seals but I haven't been able to find any rebuild parts for this UFP stuff. No caliper or master cyl kits and I even emailed the manufacturer to see if there were any suitable automotive equivalents. They said no and that you just have to buy new calipers and master cylinders.

[Thrall]

That sucks! It's been a while since I've rebuilt brake parts, but you may be able to match something up at a good Napa if you have accurate cyl diameters.
Is yours one of the one piece replace a whole bunch of crap to get a new master cyl?
Here's a pic of the fold down hitch I fabbed for my 190, might give you an idea.
Actually the prev owner had it done first, but it was a death trap, so I re-did it.
Only problem with the fold down setup was I never had brakes because the master cyl would get air in it being folded vertical for a long period of time, but if I bled the brakes I'd have brakes until I folded it down again.

[Jeff d]

Nice Radio Flyer trailer jack!

I'd make it swing to the side to avoid the air in the brakes issue. I just wonder if it's worth fooling with.

I think I have the same actuator as you have. At least it looks the same. UFP A-60?

[SteveO]

That sucks! It's been a while since I've rebuilt brake parts, but you may be able to match something up at a good Napa if you have accurate cyl diameters.
Is yours one of the one piece replace a whole bunch of crap to get a new master cyl?
Here's a pic of the fold down hitch I fabbed for my 190, might give you an idea.
Actually the prev owner had it done first, but it was a death trap, so I re-did it.
Only problem with the fold down setup was I never had brakes because the master cyl would get air in it being folded vertical for a long period of time, but if I bled the brakes I'd have brakes until I folded it down again.



How does that Radio Flyer Carry the tongue weight?

[thatsmrmastercraft]

Was that Radio Flyer a Mastercraft option or a dealer Add-on?

[glassmaster]

I've only launched this boat one time so far but the Boat Buddy didn't seem like a very valuable asset and without putting the back end of the truck in the water I couldn't get the bow eye all the way to the Buddy. I could see where it would be valuable on a closed bow boat but on the open bow I just power up the trailer then go lean over the front and connect the winch hook.

So, I could get another Boat Buddy II and hope I don't break it or I could get a 3 piece bow roller and a safety chain for about 1/3 of the price.


Jeff, If you decide to go to the 3 piece roller and safety chain and want to throw away the boat buddy I'll take it. I'll pay the shipping, I have a closed bow on my 190. :D

[Jeff d]

Well, I might try squeezing it back into shape in a vise before I spend any money. I don't like spending money on the trailer when it's avoidable because what fun is that?

[FrankSchwab]

I find the Boat Buddy to be pretty useful - but only because it saves 30 seconds putting the boat on the trailer. I back the trailer into the water, the wife drives the boat on until the BB clicks, then we pull out to the parking area where I attach the winch as a backup.

Unfortunately, the BB is, as others have noted, delicate and easily bent. Mine is currently out of commission because it looks like the pin didn't seat through the far hole on one pull out; consequently when I pulled the boat out of the water, it slid back an inch or two and bent the snot out of the BB. When it works right, its great. But, if I have to climb into the water and attach the winch before I pull the boat out, why am I bothering with the BB?

BTW, if you're tired of screwing with your trailer and just want to get one set up the way you like, I doubt you'd have a hard time selling what you have. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure it'd fit my boat nicely, and I've wanted to replace my single-axle....

/frank

[Jeff d]

BTW, if you're tired of screwing with your trailer and just want to get one set up the way you like, I doubt you'd have a hard time selling what you have. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure it'd fit my boat nicely, and I've wanted to replace my single-axle....

/frank

I don't mind working on it at all (although there are more fun things to do). I just don't want to get into a situation where I "invest" more money in this trailer than I could get a better trailer (Working brakes, swing away tongue) for less the sale price of this trailer.

If I'm not in danger of that happening I'll be happy to fix the brakes (New master cyl, maybe shock, maybe whole actuator, etc.). I'll worry about the swing away tongue later, if ever.

Honestly, I have no idea how much these trailers even cost new. $2,500? What's the going rate for a used one in good shape?

The other issue with this trailer is that I haven't been able to get the registration from the previous owner but I have a notarized bill of sale. Florida doesn't title trailers of this size and they won't title/register it in Louisiana without the Florida registration. So, I certainly will not be spending any money on it until it's officially mine.

[Jeff d]

I just checked out boat trader and they didn't have any 230/X-30 trailers listed but I did find out that the usual asking price is $2,900 and up. I doubt I could get anywhere near that for my trailer being older, more basic, non-swing away and non functioning surge brakes. So, more than likely it's worth fixing up and even changing it to swing away.

What would it take to make the front a more typical setup with the vertical bumper boards like most inboard trailers have? If I did that I could then have enough tongue length to put in a side swinging hinge.

[FrankSchwab]

I don't have an answer for you on the swing away...

I have the same titling problem with my trailer - the previous previous owner never signed the trailer title over to the po, and I can't get in touch with the ppo. Fortunately, AZ registers trailers in perpetuity, so I don't have to deal with it (until I sell it, of course). Figure I'll have to sell it in a non-title state.

/frank

[Jeff d]

Well, managed to get a registration that expired in '06 from the seller and the DMV was fine with that. It's now officially mine so I guess it's time to start really working on it.

I guess I'll pul the actuator apart and see how things look. How can you tell if the shock and the pushrod are ok? Other than the reversing solenoid those are the 2 other big ticket items inside there. If they're ok I'll just get the master cylinder. If not I'll get the whole actuator.

[Jeff d]

Well about the only times the brakes seem to work is about the 3rd or 4th attempt at backing the trailer into my carport on flat ground. I can back it up all day long but I think the pumping action when maneuvering it into the carport eventually builds enough pressure in the system to lock the brakes. Once it does this if I pull forward then reverse again the brakes don't apply again.

All of this is without the reversing solenoid pin connection because both vehicles I've towed it with only have a 4 pin connection.

[Thrall]

How does that Radio Flyer Carry the tongue weight?

Hahahaha, didn't notice that! Looks funny.

[Jeff d]

Opted to ditch the boat buddy. I messed it up even worse last weekend when it latched and the boat wanted to slide back. This bent the pin even further out of alignment. I pulled it apart but there was no hope. The tube that the pin slides in had cracked welds and it was bent badly. In addition to that the rubber cover had a lot of sun damage and left lots of marks on the hull.

Went to the roller and chain setup.

Right now the end of the chain is temporarily looped around the trailer and connected back to itself because I can't decide the best way to set it up permanently. Right now I'm thinking about cutting the chain off so that it's only about 3 links long and then drilling a hole for an eyelet through that upright, winch mount portion of the trailer.

Any thoughts on how this should be setup?

Thanks,
Jeff

[AZDave]

I have a 190 and the Boat Buddy was the first thing to go when I bought it. I have a roller like this on mine. Boat has to be centered before hooking up but otherwise much better. Ramming boat on trailer not really great on tow vehicle, and these are DRIVE ON trailers. If the BB is working perfectly it is great, but they do get bent, worn, ect. BTW a dual axle galvanized trailer for your boat is gonna be about 6000, new. Maybe 1000 to get it modified and back to like new. Check your keel for wear also. A new trailer will not have a keel roller. (aka keel wrecker)

[Campbell]

Dump the Boat Buddy...3 piece roller will work and If your like any other MasterCraft owner who cares about his boat, you or a friend will probably be in the water helping guide the boat on each time to make sure you dont damage the boat.

[Jeff d]

Dump the Boat Buddy...3 piece roller will work and If your like any other MasterCraft owner who cares about his boat, you or a friend will probably be in the water helping guide the boat on each time to make sure you dont damage the boat.

Already did. See above. Haven't actually launched it since changing to the roller bow stop though. Unfortunately I don't have any boat savvy friends who go on the boat with me yet. So, trailering is a solo operation thus far (Only launched it 2x so far but launched other boats 100s of times). Being that the boat buddy didn't work right anyway the method I use is to not back the trailer quite so far into the water to prevent the boat from having a tendency to slide back off of the trailer. I idle onto the trailer and then when I encounter some resistance I make sure everything is straight and then leave it in forward with the throttle slightly engaged. Then I go hang over the front, connect the winch and crank it tight. Then I go throttle it up the last 6" or so and retighten the winch strap.

[jdnsx]

Hello,

I want to work on a fix for the common Boat Buddy problems. I like to tinker to see if there is an easy fix.

Would anyone be willing to ship me a Boat Buddy that is not working and has been removed? I will gladly pay shipping and a small amount for the broken part. Or if anyone feels so inclined, a broken unit could be donated to reaserch!

Thanks, Joe

[east tx skier]

Opted to ditch the boat buddy. I messed it up even worse last weekend when it latched and the boat wanted to slide back. This bent the pin even further out of alignment. I pulled it apart but there was no hope. The tube that the pin slides in had cracked welds and it was bent badly. In addition to that the rubber cover had a lot of sun damage and left lots of marks on the hull.

Went to the roller and chain setup.

Right now the end of the chain is temporarily looped around the trailer and connected back to itself because I can't decide the best way to set it up permanently. Right now I'm thinking about cutting the chain off so that it's only about 3 links long and then drilling a hole for an eyelet through that upright, winch mount portion of the trailer.

Any thoughts on how this should be setup?

Thanks,
Jeff

I have an attachment point welded onto my trailer and have the chain long enough to attach with just a little slack when my boat is winched all the way on. Works great and good for that added security.

[Jeff d]

Ended up buying an SS bow eye that I attached to the upright and then cut the chain off at about 5 links with just enough slack to connect the hook.

As for the brakes they're actually working now! I had to buy a pneumatic brake bleeder from Harbor Freight that connects to the compressor. Best $30 I've ever spent. Makes changing brake fluid on pretty much any vehicle by yourself in about 15 mins.

Scraped out the inside of the master cylinder reservoir with my finger nail and got a lot of rust. Flushed and flushed and reflushed the reservoir until I could flush no more. Got it to the point where it was almost rust free when sucked out but could never get it perfectly clean. After that I sucked a quart and a half of synthetic brake fluid through the system (approximately 1/4 of that volume through each caliper). I really let it flow through there since the tool made it so easy and I think that got a good flushing effect going and got all of the rust debris out of there.

Took it out again and hadn't wired up the 5th pin harness on my truck yet and guess what.... It felt like it was pushing a lot less and then I couldn't back the trailer up unless it was on a downward slope. Had to get out and flip the connector over and turn the truck's parking lights on to get it in the carport. On Friday night I took it out and made 4-5 rapid stops from 25-30 MPH then pulled over and touched each rotor. They were all hot enough that it was uncomfortable to touch them for more than a second or so indicating that they were working. Before the rotors were all stone cold all of the time accept for one that decided to work intermittently.

So, all it cost to fix the brakes was a $30 tool that has already benefited me on other tasks and 1.5 quarts of brake fluid but it did take a few of hours counting the manual bleeding of the system that me and the wife did the first time.

For anyone who has a compressor and needs to bleed your trailer brakes you should get this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-fluid-bleeder-92924.html

It does take quite a bit of air volume. I have a 20 gallon compressor and it ran a lot when it was in use but it kept up. I suppose if you had a smaller compressor you could do a wheel then wait and give the compressor a break for a few mins then move to the next one.

[DooSPX]

I think I am going to ditch mine. slight maring of the gell on the nose and the fact that I have replaced the pin and spring a couple times. plus, I ALWAYS have someone with me to help while loading. I think I am going to go to a bow roller very soon.

[MariStar-Man]

Great install JeffD & East Tex. Your really turning that Maristar a top notch boat!

I remember someone carpeted their BoatBuddy so it wouldn't mar the gel nose, and is basically using it as a bow roller without ever engaging the pin.

I'm going to research the type of glue and carpet to install over the BB.

Heres what i did with some Stainless steel Connectors. I went to West Marine but didn't want to pay the $70 for a few links of stainless chain...lol

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x203/DocHoliday1964/1999%20Maristar/trailer/a.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x203/DocHoliday1964/1999%20Maristar/trailer/b.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x203/DocHoliday1964/1999%20Maristar/trailer/3.jpg

[Jeff d]

Great install JeffD & East Tex. Your really turning that Maristar a top notch boat!

I remember someone carpeted their BoatBuddy so it wouldn't mar the gel nose, and is basically using it as a bow roller without ever engaging the pin.

I'm going to research the type of glue and carpet to install over the BB.

I wasn't even confident in the pin's ability to retain the boat in the event of a strap failure it was so messed up.

I paid like $35 for my roller, $16 for the SS bow eye (Used as "trailer eye") and West Marine and another $4 or so for the chain with hook from Harbor Freight. If I had known how much I'd end up spending on that setup I would have looked at cheaper options.

Academy has a 3" bow roller for about 1/2 of the price of the West Marine one but the outer pieces weren't quite as wide. The overall width of the "super" bow roller that I got is like 9". The one at Academy was like 6". I initially preferred the larger margin of error offered by the larger roller but I'm pretty sure that if I was off by enough to make a difference I'd be missing the V block on the trailer already and it wouldn't do me any good.

So if I had to do it again I'd get the same chain from HF but I'd get the Academy 3" bow stop/roller and a cheaper fastener to connect the chain to the trailer.

[Jeff d]

I see your pics now. I like the simplicity of the way you connected it accept then you have to do something with that length of chain when it's not connected to the boat. My setup is short enough that the chain can just hang and not get caught up or clank against things.

I suppose a hole in the bracket for the roller would work well and allow for a shorter chain.

I'll have to get an updated pic of what I ended up doing.

[Jeff d]

I went to West Marine but didn't want to pay the $70 for a few links of stainless chain...lol

I couldn't do it either. Hence the cheap steel Harbor Freight safety chain. I figure I could change it out every season for the life of the boat and still come out ahead.

[MariStar-Man]

I see your pics now. I like the simplicity of the way you connected it accept then you have to do something with that length of chain when it's not connected to the boat.

Hey Jeff, I think your doing great things with your Maristar. I think one of the Classiest, Timeless body styles MC ever came out with...

When i release the Top Quik-link I just hook it thru the bottom Quik-Link. The weight of the chain is enough for me to park the trailer and it has never jumped out.

There has to be a deal on some stainless chain somewhere...
Group buy!...lol

[deminimis]

Well, for what its worth, I finally swapped out my Boat Buddy this AM for a three-piece 3" bell roller. A hole lot more cushion for the bow than that offered by the Boat Buddy. Wish I had done it earlier. Frankly, its a much better union between the hull of my pickle fork than that of the Boat Buddy as well.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Gm7efbhgCYU/TF7yB5m6_4I/AAAAAAAAAG8/lsOZ-tfjERo/s640/2010-08-08%2010.57.56.jpg

Here is the seriously overkill safety chain I added last season after I had a winch strap break on a steep ramp (the Boatbuddy actually saved the day that time).
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Gm7efbhgCYU/TF8Z5OpY8eI/AAAAAAAAAHc/pclyOKJgam0/s640/2010-08-08%2013.53.46.jpg

Yes, I touched up the scratch in the trailer too.

[Jeff d]

Here's my final safety chain solution. If I had to do it again I'd just drill a hole and use a coupler like Maristar Man accept I'd drill my hole in the roller bracket and use a shorter chain because that SS bow eye was like $15.

[Bert]

I have an attachment point welded onto my trailer and have the chain long enough to attach with just a little slack when my boat is winched all the way on. Works great and good for that added security.
East TX, now that you have that setup how do you like it compared to your old with the BB. Going to make some changes and was thinking of copying the SN bow stop. Looks to be more friendly to the boat... but I have no experience with it

[Jeff d]

East TX, now that you have that setup how do you like it compared to your old with the BB. Going to make some changes and was thinking of copying the SN bow stop. Looks to be more friendly to the boat... but I have no experience with it

I like that setup too but be careful designing it if you have a swing away tongue that you use regularly.

My neighbors Nautique has a similar setup and he has to unhook the winch strap and a turnbuckle, remove a pin and lift the whole winch/bow stop assembly off of the tongue before he can swing it. It can't pivot with the bowstops in place because they are against the hull.