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View Full Version : Blown motor 08X2 400 hours.


cdevro
06-09-2010, 02:02 PM
Last month my engine started knocking after a day on the water, no alarms, no warning signs. The 400 hour 350 MCX engine has been maintained at regular intervals.Orginally it was thought to be under warranty but in the end I paid the bill. The cheap plastic intake screen on the botom of the boat was broke from an unkown object. Weeds were allowed to pass right into the cooling system eventually clogging the transmission cooler and then overheating the motor. THe argument that I have is why wouldn't the temp sender be able to pick up on the high temp? (it was tested and found to be in working condition and no codes showed up on diagnostics of the engine) THe plastic screen has been replaced with the brass intake that is on most of MasterCraft boats. Why they went plastic is beyond me.
SO lessons learned:
1. clean and inspect transmission cooler screen periodically
2. fully inspect under boat each time you pull it out of the water. (I do this everytime ,but the trailer bunks block the view of the intake unless you really get under it.
3. If you have the plastic intake screen replace it !


Check out the pics!

ttu
06-09-2010, 03:04 PM
wow, that is hard to believe.

i have a 07 x2 and i guess i need to start checking in plastic intake on the bottom of my boat.

sorry to hear about your problems.

CruisinGA
06-09-2010, 03:25 PM
I don't understand why you didn't get a temp alarm...

Those weeds caused the same problem as losing an impellar, and I know I got an alarm and "limp mode" when my impellar blew.

ski_king
06-09-2010, 03:32 PM
............ THe argument that I have is why wouldn't the temp sender be able to pick up on the high temp?..............

The water temp sender wont see the high temp if there isnt a water flow. I have seen this happen before, but that was on an older boat.

bxroads
06-09-2010, 03:32 PM
It's called an Intake Water Strainer



http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/4685554065_26c53490f1_b.jpg

meg
06-09-2010, 03:33 PM
wow that really stinks for you!!!! I have an 06 X30 and I think it has the brass screen but I perioically check the intake screen. What amazes me is your temp gauge did not increase-did they say why? Does your lake have alot of debris?

Sodar
06-09-2010, 03:40 PM
Wow. I check my cooler every few times out. I would have definitely thought a high temp alarm or gauge pegged would have been seen or heard. If there is no water flow you can also hear the motor get abnormally louder, granted that the stereo is not blasting.

Sorry for your luck! A strainer has been on my list, but I have just not found a unit that is compact enough and quality built. After reading here, it seems the OEM strainer MC is putting on it's boats leaves somethings to be desired.

cdevro
06-09-2010, 04:17 PM
My mechanic (not dealer)is going to install a water intake strainer. Most of the high performance race boats have whats called a sea strainer with a flow sensor built for saltwater- probably go with that. My boat spends its time on the Colorado River in Parker, AZ so you can always count on plastic bags, beer cups, and other misc. debri. I think Ski King is right with the temp only being able to read liquid correctly rather than air, adding the flow meter would solve any discrepencies. After spending 5 years of my life drviving a nuclear submarine I tend always watch the guages. And yes the stereo was blasting most of the day.

thatsmrmastercraft
06-09-2010, 04:18 PM
It's called an Intake Water Strainer



http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/4685554065_26c53490f1_b.jpg

I like this setup, and the fact that it has a water valve to shut off the intake supply. Would be a good thing to have if the raw water supply hose had an issue.

Sodar
06-09-2010, 04:21 PM
My mechanic (not dealer)is going to install a water intake strainer. Most of the high performance race boats have whats called a sea strainer with a flow sensor built for saltwater- probably go with that. My boat spends its time on the Colorado River in Parker, AZ so you can always count on plastic bags, beer cups, and other misc. debri. I think Ski King is right with the temp only being able to read liquid correctly rather than air, adding the flow meter would solve any discrepencies. After spending 5 years of my life drviving a nuclear submarine I tend always watch the guages. And yes the stereo was blasting most of the day.

This isn't you X2 at Roadrunner, is it?

bxroads
06-09-2010, 04:32 PM
I like this setup, and the fact that it has a water valve to shut off the intake supply. Would be a good thing to have if the raw water supply hose had an issue.

FWIW, the diagram is from the owners manual of my SN.

cdevro
06-09-2010, 05:10 PM
Yes that me. The windows are being tinted today! Great pic. When was that taken? Tim at Dirty Deeds Marine and Detail sometimes takes it out when Im not there. Good friend and excellent mechanic to have. Im heading out there this weekend.

Sodar
06-09-2010, 05:15 PM
Yes that me. The windows are being tinted today! Great pic. When was that taken? Tim at Dirty Deeds Marine and Detail sometimes takes it out when Im not there. Good friend and excellent mechanic to have. Im heading out there this weekend.

I saw you out a few times! That was taken over Memorial... I think it was Sunday night that we went to Roadrunner.

Tim washed up my boat the week before Memorial. He seems like a good guy. His shop is coming along nicely, as well!

Why is the boat registered in MN?

cdevro
06-09-2010, 05:26 PM
I have all of my registration in MN - tons cheaper. I work for the government and move around quite a bit. In San Diego now. I actually worked for TIm all last summer as his detail guy. THe boat is stored at his air conditioned shop now, always clean and ready to go for the weekend.

Waketn
06-09-2010, 05:34 PM
It's called an Intake Water Strainer



http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/4685554065_26c53490f1_b.jpg

A raw water strainer is standard on all 2010 models.

Sodar
06-09-2010, 05:36 PM
Sounds like a good deal!

Good luck on getting the boat back on the water. If you see me out, cruise over and say Hi.

sand2snow22
06-09-2010, 06:02 PM
FYI.....Jeff Walker-SurfDad on Wakeworld had a similar problem with his Tige. A plastic bag stopped the flow of water into the intake. His insurance company covered the new engine. Might be worth a phone call!

sand2snow22
06-09-2010, 06:04 PM
I'm glad I have the brass intake cover on mine and it's hard to swallow when watching MC Rewind 2010 saying they 'do not compromise'. Cheap composite plastic seems like a compromise to me....

JohnE
06-09-2010, 06:59 PM
I was shocked to see the plastic fittings on my 09 when my 08 had the brass fittings. Definitely cheapo. I thought about swapping them for brass. I gotta go check mine now to see if it is completely intact.

cdevro
06-10-2010, 11:22 AM
Sand2snow22 - I made a call to the insurance company and it just might be covered! FYI bill was about 7,500.

cdevro
06-10-2010, 11:25 AM
Sodar -I will be on the water this weekend! I already have put 12 hours on the new motor. THe good news is the new motor seems to have more power than the last one.

bxroads
06-10-2010, 11:31 AM
cdevro, I've got to commend your attitude. ****t happens, its all in how you deal with it. Looks like it didn't spoil much of your fun.

cdevro
06-10-2010, 11:54 AM
A boat is a hole in the water in which you throw money into. No matter what you paid for it. Some boats only take large bills. LOL

Dylan
06-10-2010, 02:25 PM
cdevro, I've got to commend your attitude. ****t happens, its all in how you deal with it. Looks like it didn't spoil much of your fun.

I definitely agree. Sounds like you live a stress free life :) That's good, you'll live longer!

CruisinGA
06-11-2010, 10:06 AM
Reading this thread made me check my transmission cooler yesterday...

There's usually nothing in it, but yesterday there was a significant amount of pinestraw and a couple small twigs!

Sorry for your bad luck, but thanks for the heads up!

cdevro
06-18-2010, 04:46 PM
UPDATE: My insurance company sent out the (independant)investigator to look at the boat and motor. He determined from the pics and Mastercraft Dealer's statement that weeds were the cause. The insurance compnay has authorized the breakdown of the old motor in order to investigate further. So I should know more next week.

On another note maybe related: Perfect pass is unable to hold surfing speed (10.2 MPH) now- it just cuts the speed down until you loose the wake. Like I said it might be related or not to the installation of the new motor. For now just using manual.

AndyGJ
06-19-2010, 07:15 AM
OK, I'm a novice here....where is this transmission cooler so I can check mine? I have a 02 Prostar 205V.

Footin
06-19-2010, 07:30 AM
Its the can shaped part in line with the intake hose. It is between the bottom of the boat and where the intake hose feeds the motor. It has two hydraulic hoses connected to it also.

AndyGJ
06-19-2010, 07:47 AM
Does the can have a see through top or something to see if it has debris in it or do you have to take it apart? When someone else said "visually inspect" it sounded like there is a way to visually inspect without removing the filter from the line.

GregS
06-19-2010, 08:10 AM
Does MasterCraft make this in brass? We have a plastic one on our 2010 X-Star.

Greg

coz
06-19-2010, 08:50 AM
This isn't you X2 at Roadrunner, is it?

Saw this dude up by our place too :D

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/cozaz/River059.jpg
http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm258/cozaz/River060.jpg

Footin
06-19-2010, 09:25 AM
Does the can have a see through top or something to see if it has debris in it or do you have to take it apart? When someone else said "visually inspect" it sounded like there is a way to visually inspect without removing the filter from the line.

Take the hose off going into the can like unit, there is a screen to catch debris. Clean it out a reassemble.

JimN
06-19-2010, 10:14 AM
wow that really stinks for you!!!! I have an 06 X30 and I think it has the brass screen but I perioically check the intake screen. What amazes me is your temp gauge did not increase-did they say why? Does your lake have alot of debris?

It won't read high temperature because the sender is made to be immersed in water, which is a lot better at coupling the temperature to the sender. Hot air doesn't do it.

JimN
06-19-2010, 10:17 AM
EVERYBODY- read your owner's manual and post what it shows about cleaning the oil cooler and pre-boating check list. It used to recommend checking/cleaning the oil cooler before every outing. It also recommended checking the oil, hoses, etc. I don't know of anyone who bothers to spend the 5-10 minutes this takes, in order to avoid this kind of situation.

vision
06-19-2010, 12:04 PM
It won't read high temperature because the sender is made to be immersed in water, which is a lot better at coupling the temperature to the sender. Hot air doesn't do it.

You would think that similar to newer cars, marine engines would by now have oil/block temp sensors as well as water temp sensors. It is one of the down sides I suspect of using engines designed in the 80s/90s.

JimN
06-19-2010, 12:26 PM
You would think that similar to newer cars, marine engines would by now have oil/block temp sensors as well as water temp sensors. It is one of the down sides I suspect of using engines designed in the 80s/90s.

This is marine- there's no way as much money will be poured into R&D as they do with cars and trucks. Plus, the EPA isn't as far up a particular orifice, but they're trying.

An oil temp sensor could be added but when so many people ignore service intervals, can't access the data and think RPM reduction is "limp mode" when there's no water getting in to cool the motor, what's the point? My first post was to correct someone's recommendation that the warning buzzer wire be cut because it was annoying the boat owner. People regularly run the motor when it's running extremely roughly, which is usually RPM reduction and that's for getting out of danger, not limping back to the dock a few miles away. When it's in RPM reduction, shut it the eff off! There's one reason it goes into that mode on a MC boat and that's when it's overheated. Period!

The date of design means absolutely nothing. If there's no place to put an oil temp sender, they can add one. It's not much more than drilling/tapping a hole and threading it in, wiring it to the ECM and programming it to do something if it goes out of tolerance. The coolant temp temp sender IS the water sender but, even on a car, if the water jacket is dry, it's not going to show the real temperature until it's way too late.

Boats aren't cars and they suck all kinds of crap into the raw water cooling system. Boat owners need to accept the fact that some maintenance is required before taking the boat out. It's not like it needs to be torn down but a little inspection isn't hard to do. The problem is that so many people want a boat and want to be able to use it like they do when they drive away from home- "turn the key and go". Another part of the equation is that people no longer want to learn how to learn how to do mechanical things. They'd rather be an executive, lawyer, doctor, athlete or something else. Schools don't teach what's practical, they teach what will make the kids ready for colleges that will send them out as Captains of Industry, MBAs and members of Congress.

JimN
06-19-2010, 12:26 PM
Last month my engine started knocking after a day on the water, no alarms, no warning signs. The 400 hour 350 MCX engine has been maintained at regular intervals.Orginally it was thought to be under warranty but in the end I paid the bill. The cheap plastic intake screen on the botom of the boat was broke from an unkown object. Weeds were allowed to pass right into the cooling system eventually clogging the transmission cooler and then overheating the motor. THe argument that I have is why wouldn't the temp sender be able to pick up on the high temp? (it was tested and found to be in working condition and no codes showed up on diagnostics of the engine) THe plastic screen has been replaced with the brass intake that is on most of MasterCraft boats. Why they went plastic is beyond me.
SO lessons learned:
1. clean and inspect transmission cooler screen periodically
2. fully inspect under boat each time you pull it out of the water. (I do this everytime ,but the trailer bunks block the view of the intake unless you really get under it.
3. If you have the plastic intake screen replace it !


Check out the pics!

Did it run rough at any time?

Overheating it once doesn't kill a Chevy 350 unless it goes on for a really long time. They do a lot of destructive testing on their motors and this includes running them with no coolant and with no oil (separate tests). One of my friends worked at the Desert Proving grounds and they got about 250 miles out of a Cavalier with no oil. They ran a Corvette with the ZR-1 with no coolant and it never seized- it just burned up the gaskets.

AndyGJ
06-20-2010, 09:46 AM
I looked for the unit on my PS 205v yesterday, but could not locate it. I'll be pulling the boat out on Tuesday, so I'll look for it then and check/clean it. My boat DOES have a brass external cover on the bottom of the boat, so MC does or did make them. Not sure why they would have gone to plastic except for maybe cost. I would not think that weight would be a problem.

I did have my boat go into limp mode once about 3 years ago. I had been taking my boat to a local MC dealer for service and requested that they do the full service requirements including changing the impeller. For 3 years in a row, they never changed the impeller. First time out for that season, the wife was pulling the trailer out shortly after launching while we waited idling in the water for her. Suddenly, the overheat alert went off, I looked immediately to temp gauge and saw it had spiked. I shut it down immediately.

I had to have a different shop remove the debris from the impeller housing. I was told that this is one of many reasons that this particular dealership lost the MC franchise the prior season. I now change the impeller each year myself and carry 2 extra on the boat at all times (never know when a fellow MC owner may go down & need a quick replacement).

JimN
06-20-2010, 10:39 AM
I looked for the unit on my PS 205v yesterday, but could not locate it. I'll be pulling the boat out on Tuesday, so I'll look for it then and check/clean it. My boat DOES have a brass external cover on the bottom of the boat, so MC does or did make them. Not sure why they would have gone to plastic except for maybe cost. I would not think that weight would be a problem.

I did have my boat go into limp mode once about 3 years ago. I had been taking my boat to a local MC dealer for service and requested that they do the full service requirements including changing the impeller. For 3 years in a row, they never changed the impeller. First time out for that season, the wife was pulling the trailer out shortly after launching while we waited idling in the water for her. Suddenly, the overheat alert went off, I looked immediately to temp gauge and saw it had spiked. I shut it down immediately.

I had to have a different shop remove the debris from the impeller housing. I was told that this is one of many reasons that this particular dealership lost the MC franchise the prior season. I now change the impeller each year myself and carry 2 extra on the boat at all times (never know when a fellow MC owner may go down & need a quick replacement).

Advice from one member notwithstanding, it's a good idea to change the impeller every year and remove it over the winter if you store the boat for months on end. If you use it for much more than the average of about 100 hours/season, change it every 100 hours.

The first thing boat owners need to do is forget the phrase 'limp mode'. That doesn't exist when the motor relies on a steady flow of raw water to cool it. Once that's interrupted, it's 'SHUT IT DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!' mode. If it runs rough because of an overheat, nothing can fix it without restoring the flow but it's also necessary to let it cool down before running it again. Cold water on a hot motor can crack cast iron. Also, the oil needs to be changed ASAP if it overheats.

There's a lot of maintenance that can be done by a boat owner but they need to know A) what's required, B) the correct techniques and C) have the correct tools (when needed). MC used to put the break-in, 25 Hour, 50 Hour and 100 Hour service intervals in the owner's manual but I don't know if they still do. They also had a short section with what they recommend before every outing and checking the oil cooler was one of the first things listed. You'd be surprised by what can be found in the cooler in water that looks like there's nothing in it but fish. A plastic hull fitting should be fine. In theory. It's hard enough to dodge floating debris but when it's under the surface, it's almost impossible to react in time to avoid it. I think a carbon fiber or polycarbonate fitting would be better than the material used now.

Personally, and I'm biased due to the fact that I was a MC tech, the screws need to be put to any boat dealer whose service department slacks off on essential parts replacement and service procedures. They have an agreement with the manufacturer and a responsibility to their customers to do the best job possible and 'within their abilities' is an easy way for someone to try to avoid this responsibility. If they had a good tech and that person leaves, 'to the best of our ability' isn't going to be very good. If they don't bother to send their techs to training or rely on the ones who do to train the rest, they're in for a long road. A service tech may be good at what they normally do but that doesn't mean they can teach. OTOH, teaching others is a really good way to drill the material into someone's head. Dealers sometimes see training as an expense that doesn't pay out. That's a problem. How do they see throwing untrained techs at difficult diagnostics situations- good value? If they think "I'm only paying this guy $12/hr instead of $20/hr", they should stick to selling Jon boats.

cdevro
06-21-2010, 01:29 PM
Does MasterCraft make this in brass? We have a plastic one on our 2010 X-Star.

Greg

Yes they make it in brass. I replaced the plastic one.

cdevro
06-21-2010, 01:35 PM
Did it run rough at any time?

Overheating it once doesn't kill a Chevy 350 unless it goes on for a really long time. They do a lot of destructive testing on their motors and this includes running them with no coolant and with no oil (separate tests). One of my friends worked at the Desert Proving grounds and they got about 250 miles out of a Cavalier with no oil. They ran a Corvette with the ZR-1 with no coolant and it never seized- it just burned up the gaskets.

No the engine performed perfect. The knock did not start until the next time on the water. Started it up on the trailer and immediatly heard the noise. The engine still has full compression and is not locked up.

cdevro
06-21-2010, 01:39 PM
Wow thanks for the photo's. Its hard to get photos like that since Im in the boat. Next weekend will be the last time the boat is in Parker. Job transfer is placing me back in Minnesota once again. Going to miss the weather and the long season.