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91prostar
05-29-2010, 09:05 PM
Ok so I went out today for a long time in the new boat ( new to me) as I have posted in the past the boat sat for a long time and when it was not sitting it was being abused.

I had some water in the trans so I replaced the cooler and I think that solved the water problem. Today I had to add fluid twice in two hours just to get it to pull and the bilge is covered in fluid. One would think it would be very easy to spot a leak like this but I can't. I am thinking about pulling the starter just to get a better view.. The rear of the trans is dry and the cooler lines dry as well..

My best guess is the front seal and my question is how hard is that to replace? Is it a DIY job or should I have it done. I have lots of auto experience but boats not so much...

1991 Tristar 190
351
borg warner 1:1 velvet drive

thanks in advance for your input

1990lmtd
05-29-2010, 09:13 PM
It probably is a front seal like you said. Removing the trans can be a DIY project it just may take a couple of hours and I recommend an engine lift to strap it and pick it up it probably weighs in excess of a 100 lbs and is hard to grab down there. To replace the seal is not that hard once the trans is out. Also keep in mind that the rear of the engine is supported by the transmission mounts and take a picture of where the solenoid and circuit breaker goes. What may seem obvious while dissassembling may become confusing during assembly. Good luck to you, I hope it all works out.

nitro5238
05-29-2010, 09:27 PM
Did it myself last year. Technically not a very hard job just be patient and take a few pics if you are not sure where everything goes. I called my local inboard shop and they wanted over $600 dollars......I got the front seal from skidim for less than $10 ....you do the math on that one. Be sure to brace the rear of the engine...I used two nine dollar bottle jacks. Overall it was very rewarding to do it myself and you also get to know your boat better by doing it. PM me if you have any questions and I can give you more details. Also there is a very good thread on here already of someone else doing thiers and they had lot of pics to boot. Good luck and keep us posted.

By the way .......my trans was making a huge mess the same as you described and it did in fact turn out to be the front seal.

91prostar
05-29-2010, 09:38 PM
Well thats what I thought, I guess I will nurse it through tomorrow (big day planned) and then pull the tranny next week, thanks for the help guys and I will let you know how it goes...

rholmes
05-30-2010, 03:02 PM
You run the risk of burning the clutch plates and turning a couple hours and under $50 of parts to a $750+ transmission replacement. That transmission is under a lot of internal pressure, as you continue to run with blown seals, you risk going from a minor leak under pressure to a complete blowout of the remaining seal and blowing all the fluid out in heartbeat. It is blowing the fluid up through the bell housing and then leaking either through the bottom or filling up the housing and the spinning flywheel is churning it out the starter engagement hole. It's your world, but I would put those plans on hold for the weekend and sit the boat out!

91prostar
05-31-2010, 09:26 PM
Thanks I left the boat in the garage and ordered the seal, I will replace this week hopefully I didn't do any damage before this point, we shall see..

downtime
06-01-2010, 05:44 PM
Had the exact same issue with my '95. Had zero free time to get it myself, much less a place to work on it. Bit the bullet and took it to Texas MC in FT Worth. They replaced both seals for the low low price of $700. Definately worth doing yourself if you have the time and place. This instance alone has 100% justified my need for a shop, which I am pricing right now.

JMann
07-01-2010, 07:47 PM
91Prostar: did you do the seals yourself? How did it go was it fairly easy but time consuming?
I would be interested to here how it went.

André
07-01-2010, 08:33 PM
For someone a bit handy with tools,this job is MUCH easier then it looks.
Did mine last year and it went really well.A neighbor had the big socket you need for the nut...
Turn out that a hose had a hole in it and was spitting oil like crazy under load but not at idle.
At least i learned how to change those seals!:)

JMann
07-01-2010, 08:46 PM
Where is the transmission cooler? I think mine is leaking getting water into the tranmission and bildge. I am hoping I don't need to do the seals.
I haven't seen any fluild in the bildge I did look for that last night when I was checking the fluid. The bildge has dried out. I don't see any residual fluid down there.

nitro5238
07-01-2010, 10:37 PM
Jmann..........the cooler is located on the port side of the engine. Look down near the left side of the transmission. There you will see a hose coming up from the bottom of your bilge. This is where the engine gets it's raw water from the lake. Follow that hose up and you will see that the hose goes into a cylinder shaped container. This container is the transmission cooler....it will have two hoses plumbed into it. These lines carry transmission fluid into the cylinder. Inside of the cylinder is a coil which the fluid goes through. At the same time the water is also going through there cooling the fluid. They are separated and never mix. I probably went overboard but I hope this helps others as well that might wonder what's going on.

Herc59
07-02-2010, 12:01 PM
In my 1991 Tri star 190 it is beside the engine on the port side, you will see a hose from the raw water in take enter a 8 in cylinder like thing, and a hose from the other end going to the water pump. It also will have to trasmission oil like going into the side of it.

Herc59
07-02-2010, 12:02 PM
Sorry about the typing, its two transmission oil lines going into the side.

JMann
07-02-2010, 12:58 PM
Thanks for the advice. I looked this morning before work but was looking around the transmission, no wonder I didn't find it. I will follow that line up tonight to the cylinder and look for seaweed. Do I have to remove any exhaust or anything to get to hte cooler?
Is it possible to clean it out and a leak would stop, or once it leaks it's better to replace?
Is the trans cooler something I can get at SkiDim?

Herc59
07-02-2010, 02:02 PM
It is super easy to remove, two hose clamps and a couple 7/8 wrenches for the tranny lines, 7/16 for the bracket and the thing is loose. If its leaking I think it needs to be replaced or fixed. I took mine to a rad shop, they said it would be a $100 to $150 to fix if needed, for a new one I was quoted 900 to 1000 bucks. Clean it your self (save yourself $50) then get it tested. Mine was fine, hope I don't have to change a seal.

macattack
07-02-2010, 02:05 PM
Your transmission oil cooler should look like the pic below. It's location will be different depending on what engine you have; but, as Nitro said, follow the hose from where the water enters your bilge to your water pump then to the oil cooler. Once you locate the cooler, remove the bottom hose and run your finger around the inside lip to remove any foreign material. Removing weeds, etc will prevent overheating, but I doubt will fix any "transmission oil cooler" leaks. SkiDim carries some oil coolers...mac

http://skidim.com/products.asp?dept=1099

Herc59
07-02-2010, 02:22 PM
Wow good thing I didn't buy a cooler up here in the great white north $900 what a bunch of ****. Thanks for the link, if I ever need a new one I will get it online.

Herc59
07-02-2010, 02:25 PM
By the way on my 1991 prostar, the cooler is half the size of the picture and just aft of the oil filter, my is also a Ford 351.

JMann
07-02-2010, 03:00 PM
Thanks for the link. For that price I'm going to order one now and swap it out next week and change the transmission fluid again. It can never hurt.
Who knows when the last time if ever it was done.

For getting the water out of the tranny. What is the best way, just replace it every couple of days until it stays red? What is this about putting some kerosene in the tranny to help dry it out? I read a couple threads about that. Anyone ever try it, how did it work and how much did you put in?

JMann
07-19-2010, 07:43 PM
So I did the transmission cooler this morning. It was an easy job and the price Skidim sells them for, if in doubt just change it. It took about 30 minutes total. My only comment is be careful, no fluid leak when I unhooked the transmission hoses but when I turned the cooler there was fluid in the cooler itself.

I can't say how many beer job it was because it was only 9am but I would say 2 beers if you needed to know.

master.mike
08-17-2010, 12:34 AM
I am having the same issues. Have to add a qt of trans oil when I go out. Replaced the transmission cooler, but still no go. I can't find any obvious places where it may be leaking, so I am thinking front or rear gasket/seals? lines all look good and clean. Is the below kit all I need to take the transmission off and replace all the gaskets?

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RK173018

Also, the prop shaft, what seals can I replace on the packing bearing where it exits the hull? What gasket is on the part that holds the shaft on the bottom of the boat? I figured I might as well do other preventive maintence since its a 92' and I don't know what was previously done.

Luv2Ski
08-17-2010, 02:13 PM
You will not need that kit if you are only replacing the front seal. The fluid pump sits in front of the trans and holds the one seal that is likely your offender. It is a standard seal and you could probably get it at a local autoparts store once you had the part # or dimmensions, but skidim has it anyway (http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=R047003) (you save $70 compared to the kit you were looking at).

You will want to remove the fluid pump to get the seal out (much easier). That is an "o" ring so there is a decent chance you could reuse it, but skidim sells that as well, I would probably play it safe and replace it.

You may need to polish the shaft service using some high-grit (600+) wet and dry paper. If there is pits and rust on that shaft it can lead to premature seal failure and I you don't want to do this job twice if you don't have to.

I am little confused about your question on replacing the packing. Are you wanting to to put one of the no leak seal-based systems in? If you are just talking about packing the gland nut, then go with the newer goretex stuff, it works really well and does not leak near as fast as the classic wax material. There is a good writeup in the FAQ on how to replace it.

There is no seal that holds the shaft onto the bottom of the boat. There is some sealant between the strut and the boat. There are bushings between the shaft and the strut, only need to replace them if yours are worn, otherwise no need.

CantRepeat
08-17-2010, 02:37 PM
Here is a link to a post that has links to the 71 velvet service manuals I used.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=32581

There is also a tranny install guide.

91prostar
08-17-2010, 03:33 PM
You may need to polish the shaft service using some high-grit (600+) wet and dry paper. If there is pits and rust on that shaft it can lead to premature seal failure and I you don't want to do this job twice if you don't have to.

.


Ditto.. mine had an area on the shaft that was rough, I sanded the shaft but maybe not enough, I have started to see some drips in the bilge...take your time and do it right you really dont want to have to do it twice...

master.mike
08-19-2010, 02:50 AM
So if I want one weekend to go at this and do things the right way, including future preventive maintenance since its a 92' should I get the seal kit? Also wheres a link to the wax stuff to minimize leaking from the drive shaft? From about 15 minutes of driving (30+) the bilge will kick on and empty, does that seem like too quick?

CantRepeat
08-19-2010, 08:17 AM
So if I want one weekend to go at this and do things the right way, including future preventive maintenance since its a 92' should I get the seal kit? Also wheres a link to the wax stuff to minimize leaking from the drive shaft? From about 15 minutes of driving (30+) the bilge will kick on and empty, does that seem like too quick?

If you really want a dry bilge try this kit.

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=OJ2013

I installed it and have been extremely happy with it.

Luv2Ski
08-19-2010, 11:21 AM
So if I want one weekend to go at this and do things the right way, including future preventive maintenance since its a 92' should I get the seal kit? Also wheres a link to the wax stuff to minimize leaking from the drive shaft? From about 15 minutes of driving (30+) the bilge will kick on and empty, does that seem like too quick?

The rest of those seals are not needed. You would have to break open the case and essentially rebuild the transmission to replace them. They are seals that go into places like the pistons that drive the clutch plates together. It would be a waste of time since you don't need a rebuild. You could replace the rear seal while you are at it, but that one is pretty darn easy to get to latter if it starts to leak.

Yes, that leak in your packing gland is way to quick. I can run mine all day and only have a little over an inch of water. You may be able to just tighten the gland, but since you don't know the history I would just replace it. Search for "packing" at www.skidim.com and you will see all of your options.

master.mike
08-20-2010, 03:56 AM
There a cheaper kit, say under $50?

Also on the seals, so to do the front and rear seals, can I buy these ahead of time online or can both be bought at a local store?

91prostar
08-20-2010, 09:19 AM
I would get them from skidim... they will make sure you get the correct ones..

master.mike
08-23-2010, 03:40 PM
Just for others reference, this was my response from Skidim...

Item# 1406 is the input seal and item# 1408 is the output seal for the 1.5:1 trans. We like the new GFO packing, item# 31605.

master.mike
09-05-2010, 03:44 PM
Well the seals went in pretty well after hours of trying to figure out how to remove the transmission in my garage with pulleys and such. I'll post some pictures when I get a chance. Hopefully today I will get it in the water and see how good/bad of a job I did.... I also re-did the packing gland nut with new rope. How tight should i make it before getting it in the water?

Chicago190
09-05-2010, 04:33 PM
Well the seals went in pretty well after hours of trying to figure out how to remove the transmission in my garage with pulleys and such. I'll post some pictures when I get a chance. Hopefully today I will get it in the water and see how good/bad of a job I did.... I also re-did the packing gland nut with new rope. How tight should i make it before getting it in the water?

I tightened it by hand until it was snug. I had to re-tighten it after an hour of running, so it's probably a good idea to leave the floor section out for now.

Cloaked
09-05-2010, 05:52 PM
Well the seals went in pretty well after hours of trying to figure out how to remove the transmission in my garage with pulleys and such. I'll post some pictures when I get a chance. Hopefully today I will get it in the water and see how good/bad of a job I did.... I also re-did the packing gland nut with new rope. How tight should i make it before getting it in the water?Snug tight until you hit the water. With the graphite packing, tighten it until it doesn't drip. I have a dry basement. That is the beauty of graphite. I leave out the center section of the floor for access to the gland nut and test it on the water, using a pipe wrench and a large pair of slip joint pliers. Once the nut is tightened as required, put the floor in and enjoy the day.