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kgrove
05-25-2010, 02:26 PM
Why doesn't MC sell more boats with a diesel engine? I would think the low end torque would make them much better performers on a wakeboard boat than their gas cousins, yet I rarely if ever see one on a MC or any other brand for that matter (until you start getting into the much larger ocean going boats). Just curious...

06197ttlq9-footer
05-25-2010, 02:33 PM
My guess is that the small blocks power curve is what makes all this possible. The diesel may have the torque but will not turn the higher rpm fast enough. Oh and the fumes would make you sick after a while.

TMCNo1
05-25-2010, 02:33 PM
$$$$Dollars$$$$Dollars, just ask any dealer what the upgrade price is and it will be obvious. Around here, the price of diesel fuel is 40 cents a gallon more than gasoline.

vision
05-25-2010, 02:40 PM
I agree with Harold. It is the sticker shock of upgrading to a diesel. It was the most expensive engine option when it first became available.

I have never noticed the fumes on larger boats with diesel engines, but perhaps on a small ski boat it would be more noticeable.

stuartmcnair
05-25-2010, 04:36 PM
fumes are a non issue on newer diesels. As for power, diesels have so much more power across the board than gas engines it's not even funny. Cost of fuel? No, diesels are about forty percent more fuel efficient so they easily make up the cost of fuel. The issue is the weight of the engine and the cost of the engine. Them things are expensive.

bobx1
05-25-2010, 04:51 PM
....Around here, the price of diesel fuel is 40 cents a gallon more than gasoline.

In theory, a marine application should qualify for off-road/farm/red diesel but that stuff may not mix well with the new engines (low sulphur burning).

TMCNo1
05-25-2010, 05:01 PM
In theory, a marine application should qualify for off-road/farm/red diesel but that stuff may not mix well with the new engines (low sulphur burning).

All the more to go gas with a tax deduct means it's only $2.20 a gallon or less.

TayMC197
05-25-2010, 05:03 PM
On the build a boat option it has a deisel option. Maybe that is just for some boats though.

TayMC197
05-25-2010, 05:03 PM
Also, I could run farm fuel in the boat, doubt they would check it. tell them I'm hurding my sea cows.

scott023
05-25-2010, 05:06 PM
It would be harder to get diesel fuel filled on the water as well...

onejdgreen
05-25-2010, 08:36 PM
The biggest deal is the cost. Compare the cost of 350 Chevy to any diesel engine. You can get any 350 block for $500. Add another zero to that and you can get a diesel engine. Just think about when you shop for a truck, diesel is a 10-15K upgrade...

Chicago190
05-25-2010, 09:07 PM
The biggest deal is the cost. Compare the cost of 350 Chevy to any diesel engine. You can get any 350 block for $500. Add another zero to that and you can get a diesel engine. Just think about when you shop for a truck, diesel is a 10-15K upgrade...

The diesel option from MC is a few multiples of $10-15k.

ShamrockIV
05-25-2010, 09:18 PM
i agree it woul dbe much more expensive to have it added and then to get worked on. on our lake only one dock has diesel!! so that would be an issue

kgrove
05-26-2010, 01:30 AM
All good info - as always.

I had always heard diesel engines were simpler than gas engines and therefore should be less expensive... go figure. Probably economies of scale in building them as well as availability/competition. As for weight, most of us have ****loads of ballast in our boats anyway... makes sense skiers wouldn't want one, but wakeboarders should welcome the iron. Clearly I won't be going diesel anytime soon if it is a $10K option for MC.

Diddy_Funk
05-26-2010, 03:10 AM
Let me lay some of these diesel myths to rest.
I have a 2006 X-Star with a 315 hp turbo charged Yanmar diesel engine. It is absolutely incredible!
This boat was originally part of a test program with MC and due to some failed negotiations between Yanmar and MC, the deal never happened. The boat was fully tested against a gas powered, big block x-star, with pro tour ballast. The diesel out performed the gas engine in EVERY category. That is low end, mid, and high end power. It accelerated faster, and killed the gas engine in fuel economy (gas 15gph, diesel 6gph).
Some of the other myths I have heard are about weight and smell (fumes) . The diesel engine is actually only around 70 pounds heavier than the big block MC offers. It actually hooks up to the same tranny as the big block and uses the same motor mounts. As for the fumes, diesel fumes are actually non harmful as they do not carry the amounts of carbon monoxide that gasoline exhaust carries. Also, the there is almost no odor in the exhaust.

As for price, from what I have heard, to upgrade to diesel from the big block is between 10-15 thousand dollars. IF you use the boat enough, you could make that back in saved fuel money, or consider the boost in lifetime expectancy and re-sale value. These diesel engines run FOREVER! The warranty alone is up to 2,000 hours and I have seen this engine run in Par-a-sail boats over 10,000 hours. Pretty incredible.

Overall, I am in love with this boat/motor package and I won't even think about selling it until MC offers a boat with something comparable! Let me know if you have any more questions.

thatsmrmastercraft
05-26-2010, 08:46 AM
Diesel engine manufacturing costs are higher due to the higher compression ratio. You certainly need a stronger assembly at 22:1 vs. 9:1 Not sure that makes the difference for the huge difference between the two though.

timvan
05-26-2010, 11:30 AM
A LARGE part of the cost is that all internals on a diesel need to be forged for the higher compression, The block is also a lot thincker. Then add Injectors that are capable of 22k psi or more and a pump to supply that fuel pressure.... ita all adds up $$ quickly!

Age Fighter
05-26-2010, 03:17 PM
Let me lay some of these diesel myths to rest.
I have a 2006 X-Star with a 315 hp turbo charged Yanmar diesel engine. It is absolutely incredible!
This boat was originally part of a test program with MC and due to some failed negotiations between Yanmar and MC, the deal never happened. The boat was fully tested against a gas powered, big block x-star, with pro tour ballast. The diesel out performed the gas engine in EVERY category. That is low end, mid, and high end power. It accelerated faster, and killed the gas engine in fuel economy (gas 15gph, diesel 6gph).
Some of the other myths I have heard are about weight and smell (fumes) . The diesel engine is actually only around 70 pounds heavier than the big block MC offers. It actually hooks up to the same tranny as the big block and uses the same motor mounts. As for the fumes, diesel fumes are actually non harmful as they do not carry the amounts of carbon monoxide that gasoline exhaust carries. Also, the there is almost no odor in the exhaust.

As for price, from what I have heard, to upgrade to diesel from the big block is between 10-15 thousand dollars. IF you use the boat enough, you could make that back in saved fuel money, or consider the boost in lifetime expectancy and re-sale value. These diesel engines run FOREVER! The warranty alone is up to 2,000 hours and I have seen this engine run in Par-a-sail boats over 10,000 hours. Pretty incredible.

Overall, I am in love with this boat/motor package and I won't even think about selling it until MC offers a boat with something comparable! Let me know if you have any more questions.

I would say DaddyFunk you laid nothing to rest -- you simply verified what everyone else said (more or less). Diesels are great engines, but only a small percentage of boaters will have the reason to pay 15K more on top of what is already a very expensive boat.

That and fuel avail on fresh water are the issues.

jipster43
05-26-2010, 10:36 PM
Buy a diesel, fill it with some homemade biofuel and you could pay the engine off in ten years.

JP :)

vision
05-26-2010, 10:51 PM
Let me lay some of these diesel myths to rest.
I have a 2006 X-Star with a 315 hp turbo charged Yanmar diesel engine. It is absolutely incredible!
This boat was originally part of a test program with MC and due to some failed negotiations between Yanmar and MC, the deal never happened. The boat was fully tested against a gas powered, big block x-star, with pro tour ballast. The diesel out performed the gas engine in EVERY category. That is low end, mid, and high end power. It accelerated faster, and killed the gas engine in fuel economy (gas 15gph, diesel 6gph).
Some of the other myths I have heard are about weight and smell (fumes) . The diesel engine is actually only around 70 pounds heavier than the big block MC offers. It actually hooks up to the same tranny as the big block and uses the same motor mounts. As for the fumes, diesel fumes are actually non harmful as they do not carry the amounts of carbon monoxide that gasoline exhaust carries. Also, the there is almost no odor in the exhaust.

As for price, from what I have heard, to upgrade to diesel from the big block is between 10-15 thousand dollars. IF you use the boat enough, you could make that back in saved fuel money, or consider the boost in lifetime expectancy and re-sale value. These diesel engines run FOREVER! The warranty alone is up to 2,000 hours and I have seen this engine run in Par-a-sail boats over 10,000 hours. Pretty incredible.

Overall, I am in love with this boat/motor package and I won't even think about selling it until MC offers a boat with something comparable! Let me know if you have any more questions.

Excellent Summary. Thanks. Out of curiosity, how many RPMs is your Yanmar putting out to run 25mph?

scott023
05-26-2010, 10:51 PM
I would say DaddyFunk you laid nothing to rest -- you simply verified what everyone else said (more or less). Diesels are great engines, but only a small percentage of boaters will have the reason to pay 15K more on top of what is already a very expensive boat.

That and fuel avail on fresh water are the issues.

Took the words out of my mouth... :D

Diddy_Funk
05-27-2010, 02:25 AM
Scott and Age: maybe you failed to read the earlier posts, but people said a few things like "they are too heavy" or "they smell bad"
That was what I was referring to when I said that.... real crazy riiight??

And Vision: Your welcome... I like to spread some positive light on the engines when the opportunity presents itself. They are sooo much more practical than gasoline engines for the application of wakeboarding. If this idea was pushed hard enough, prices would heavily fall as an option. As for RPMs... 25mph is around 2800 rpm.

scott023
05-27-2010, 08:56 AM
Scott and Age: maybe you failed to read the earlier posts, but people said a few things like "they are too heavy" or "they smell bad"
That was what I was referring to when I said that.... real crazy riiight??

And Vision: Your welcome... I like to spread some positive light on the engines when the opportunity presents itself. They are sooo much more practical than gasoline engines for the application of wakeboarding. If this idea was pushed hard enough, prices would heavily fall as an option. As for RPMs... 25mph is around 2800 rpm.

No, I read the earlier posts. To be frank, one persons opinion on the smell of diesel fuel is not going to change my opinion. The weight factor isn't an issue, as last time I checked a lot of us are trying to get more weight into our boats anyway.

Also, the big issue for me would be filling the tanks. Our lake isn't big enough for lagre boats, therefore we don't have diesel fuel available in the marinas. I really don't want to pull my boat out of the water everytime I need to fill up. I am sure that is an issue for many others as well.