Slalom / Wakeboarding etiquette [Archive]

cbaird

06-23-2005, 02:31 PM

I have a group of wakeboarders and we have been going at 6am in the morning 2-3 times a week and we are running into a slew of slalom skiers who always seem upset that we are out wakeboarding. They tend to get close to us in the middle of our run and wait (sometimes we have to alter our course). When we switch riders we let them run a set and then when they are done they load up a new rider so on so forth. They always seem really pissed though.

The frustrating thing is we try to accomodate them and it seems we will be in one spot and go to another area and run for an hour or so. Then someone comes right where we are at and then expects us to move to the other area. Whats up with this? Why can't they go to the other area?

From a slalom skiers perspective why does this occur? It looks as though the slalom guys alternate when there are other slalomers. It's not like we are bunch of punks either, we are aged from 30 - 50 and are all professionals.

Any perspective would help, especially on the etiquette side since I've never experienced this high anxiety space issue.

rodltg2

06-23-2005, 02:38 PM

they are probably pissed at the huge rollers your sending throughout the lake. also wakeboarders fall alot and when you turn back to pick up your rider , bring the boat down to idle before turning so you dont send rollers everywhere. either way fair is fair and you both should get your turn.

John B

06-23-2005, 02:45 PM

Talk to them, let them know that you are trying to work with them. If they are in a MasterCrart it should go well, but if they are in one of those other boat I don't know.

ktn_cmu

06-23-2005, 02:49 PM

cbaird

06-23-2005, 02:50 PM

John B,

They are ALL smug malibu riders!

rodltg2,

I hear yah, all of them so far don't even attempt to ride. They just wait. The problem is that we will go to another spot where they aren't. Then they leave and another boat comes to where we are even when the other part is open. Shouldn't it be that whoever is there first should stay? As long as there is another open spot? When I say open spot, our lake has two bodies that are isolated so our rollers on one
lake don't effect the other.

We just feel we are being nice and taken advantage of.

jmac197

06-23-2005, 02:50 PM

We have a group of wakeboards that share the lake where our course is. Like you, we alternate between sets. What I have noticed is that the wakeboarders sets tend to be longer in time than the skiers. I know I'm only good for about 6 passes per set. That equals, what, no more than 5 or 6 minutes with the turn around and maybe a fall. The wakeboards run for 10+ minutes at a time, and like Rod said, the wakes take much longer to disipate.

We all get along fine though.....next time offer to give them a pull. I cross sides every now and then, just enough to catch an edge, smash my face, and remind myself why I prefer to ski.

Later
Jim

Flatwaterfooter

06-23-2005, 02:56 PM

cbaird

06-23-2005, 02:58 PM

As a slalom skier I know that wakeboarders in general bother me, however, if they were trying as you are I'd be ok with it probably. My big problem is with stupid tubers rippin up the glass for me. Get your butt over to the wavy side of the lake. But for your situation, I am not sure how to fix it, seems they could be a little more considerate. Do keep in mind however, one slalom skier doesn't do a whole lot to a wakeboarders game...but one wakeboarder can kill a whole lake for a slalom skier...and then the tubers come out...

Without having much slalom experience I'll ask this question. What happens when you encounter a roller? Can you ski over it or do you just have to stop?

I think the other thing going on is wakeboarding is catching up to slalom skiing in that more people are doing it and it isn't just punks anymore. I think in the next few years they will see more wakeboarding groups and early morning people and that probably doesn't sit well either.

cbaird

06-23-2005, 03:04 PM

Are they sking a course of just free skiing. We have had a problem where people want to wakeboard and tube around our course when there is a whole lot of water out there for them to ride away from us. Its not that I don't think they should be out there, but it is the only place we are allowed to put the course and would like the calm water just like everyone else. We have talk to the people the move on, and more often then not they just want a crack at the course.

Thats what I would think also. One lake has a course and one doesn't. But for some reason they like to freeride on the one without the course so we are forced to the lake with the course out of curtosy. Then we ride for a bit and sure enough now someone wants to use the course and they are pissed we are there. Of course they probably don't know we just came over there because we where respecting someone else.

We get frustrating after a bit of this and sometimes just say screw it. Either we finish or just keep going and avoid there waving and crap. You can only be so nice within reason. And if you ever talk to them they have no problem telling you to go somewhere else. Alot of balls. Now I'm starting to re-live it and am getting upset...

Granite_33

06-23-2005, 03:08 PM

Sounds like they free ski? True?

I do about 50/50 board and ski. Ski in the AM when its calm, Ski later in the PM when its calm. All other times I board. Of course I want smooth water, who doesn't?

The reality of it is that about 1 out of every 4 sets for me is less than ideal......meaning I hit rollers from other (not just wakeboard) boats throughout my run. (free ski) Like the good and the bad, I take it because I understand that it is a public lake, for public use.

Sounds like you are trying to do the right thing by going to other parts of the lake and at least being aware of those around you.

Since they are in Bu's, most likely its boat envy.............

You should not be worrying about this so much.........if its flat water they want, they should come and ask you to sit tight for a few while they take their runs.

cbaird

06-23-2005, 03:13 PM

Granite 33,

I hear what your saying and agree. I would just like one of them to go to the other open lake like we do. I always feel pressured to move - like I'm doing something wrong and that sucks to feel like that when your out to have fun and you got $60K invensted in this fun.

Scot

06-23-2005, 03:14 PM

well,as an example. I was sitting there trying to get a new skier up, young kid, and along comes jaws, plowing through the water, came too close IMO, and then comes the wake.... the roller was huge! it darn near swamped me, and my skier.... I just ask the wakeboat drivers understand, as it states in the laws,.... you are responsible for your wake and are liable for any death or destruction the wake causes.... I'm learning to hate wakeboats as much as jet skiis and tubers.... even though I do all of the above!

however the worse offenders are the fiberglass deckboats pulling little johnny in the tube with about 15 peeps on board...

east tx skier

06-23-2005, 03:22 PM

But for being nice and communicating with them, I don't think that there's a lot more you can do. Sounds to me like you guys are handling it the right way.

I had a similar situation with a wakeboard boat (I'm a slalom skier) about a year ago. We were in the cove where our club's ski course was located. When we arrived, there was a wakeboard boat taking sets in circles around the course. At this point, it bears mentioning that our club leases this cove from the city and only club members are permitted.

They asked if we were going to use the cove. I told them that if they wanted to take another set, that would be fine, but we were going to be using the course and informed them of our club's lease.

They took another set ... for the next 20 minutes. I tried to be patient and friendly, but it got to a point where they were just taking advantage our our being nice.

Again, sounds like you guys are handling it the right way. I don't think what you're experiencing is specific to slalom skiers. Some wakeboarders are inconsiderate, too. Such is life I suppose.

As for the question about rollers and skiing. If I'm free skiing, I can usually ski over normal cruising rollers assuming I stay behind the boat. If I'm in a course, and there're huge rollers, I might as well drop becuase you don't have time to return to the middle and wait for them to pass. The answer is, it just depends.

cbaird

06-23-2005, 03:42 PM

scot,
Let me guess, jaws was probably some young weekenders (non-lake resident) or young punks who park their boat at their parents place and they where out with 5-7 buddies and drinking like mad man.

The other group of people whom I dislike the most are the weekenders who have little boating experience (both yound and old) who live in their own world and don't think about anyone else. These people scare me, especially when I'm out with my kids. I don't know if they are paying attention and going to end up running into me. And my god most of the people on the jet skis have no clue what they are doing and have more power than they can handle. I never let anyone take my jet skis out unless I'm with them so they don't do the stupid crap I see everyone else doing.

tpttool

06-23-2005, 03:57 PM

dmac

06-23-2005, 04:08 PM

however the worse offenders are the fiberglass deckboats pulling little johnny in the tube with about 15 peeps on board...The Hurricane deck boat puts out the heaviest wake I have come across, regardless of the number of peeps on it. It will rattle your teeth if you hit that roller with any kind of speed.

USC8791

06-23-2005, 04:39 PM

Federal law requires that any/all wakeboarders immediately leave the lake when slalom skiers are present. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere.

AirJunky

06-23-2005, 04:47 PM

I think you read that right here...... right after you wrote it. :uglyhammer

Dooker

06-23-2005, 04:55 PM

yep, me an dooker experincin the same bull ****.
we get out to the river, you know and i start blowin dooker's. take a few minutes but i gets it there, the tube is ready to go. by din all the morons chop up my glass water. i cant get up to 40 when its all bumpy. dang ! its good though evrybody starts waving at us they love the sho. i know im really good thats why all them onlookers stop there boats and watch me and wave to me. point up to the sky saying im number 1.

Preach on Toolman! I cant even get around the wun ball on the sumo tube when all them slalom boats comin' down the course the other way at us. Them fellas are so inconsid inconsid uh a$$holes. But if they wants a game of chicken, they got it. Us Arkansas boys don't flinch! :twocents:

east tx skier

06-23-2005, 05:02 PM

That's just wrong.

BriEOD

06-23-2005, 05:14 PM

Preach on Toolman! I cant even get around the wun ball on the sumo tube when all them slalom boats comin' down the course the other way at us. Them fellas are so inconsid inconsid uh a$$holes. But if they wants a game of chicken, they got it. Us Arkansas boys don't flinch! :twocents:

ROTFLMFAO!!! :purplaugh

Upper Michigan Prostar190

06-23-2005, 05:40 PM

Federal law requires that any/all wakeboarders immediately leave the lake when slalom skiers are present. I'm pretty sure I read that somewhere.

yep!!! I think thats the law alright!!!! :toast: Seems to me thats the way I remember reading it ;)

I realize we all need to be curteous on the water, but I have to admit that nothing more pisses me off than ANYONE with ANY watercraft ANYWHERE near where I am trying to slalom ski on some fine glass calm water thats localized. I am on Lake superior here, I mean come on people, its only the largest body of fresh water on the planet and some idiots always have to decide to troll for laketrout next to me, or tow a tube on the glass near me, or paddle their pedal boats near me,or jetski neaxt to me, or do a scenic cruise with their pontoon boat next to me. or whatever :( Sorry, didnt mean to rant, but that really strikes a nerve with me. I dont go harrassing other boaters. why do they insist on ruining my glass?

how do we work with this?? I dont have it happen often, but its still very rude when there is an entire lake for these other people to utilize when they dont NEED the glass calm water like slalom skiers do.

LakePirate

06-23-2005, 05:46 PM

I cant even get around the wun ball on the sumo tube when all them slalom boats comin' down the course the other way at us.

That is just too much.

LakePirate

06-23-2005, 05:54 PM

I don't want to go on a rant here ---But I don't care what you are doing on the lake, "toobin", slalom, footin, trickin, knuckle draggin it dosen't matter as long as you follow common sense laws. If I am driving my boat out for a cruise I should be aware of the size wake that I am kicking up. Amazing how that little mirror over there will show you that. However, due to some freak of nature I still manage to drive my vessel at the perfect speed to produce the largest wake possible. But hey I am being considerate because I am only running 12 mph. Since I am going sooo slow and being sooo conscience of my surroundings I am positive that these people on that dock won't care if I drive by about 8 foot from the end of it. Wow, they should really tie that float boat up better, it is hitting the dock really hard.

Sorry, I digress.

jayocheskey

06-23-2005, 05:57 PM

I do both, slalom and wakeboard, and smooth water is smooth water no matter what you're riding on. You have to remember, most people who actually still slalom are "old school." No offense to anyone here, but the older the crowd, the grumpier and more "territorial" they are. Some people seem to think that because they've been riding in a certain area for years, they own that spot.

If this group isn't willing to cooperate with you, screw 'em. After all your attempts to co-exist with them, what have they done for you in return? I say, ignore the jerks and ride where you want to because there is only so much you can try to do to accomodate them. Don't let anyone else ruin your time on the water. They'll either A) come to their senses and learn to share or B) find a new place to ride and get the heck out of the way.

Upper Michigan Prostar190

06-23-2005, 06:47 PM

Ya know, I am only 32 yrs old, and I guess I fall into the "old school" bracket. I was always a slalom skier, and just never had any desire to go barefoot , wakeboarding, or anthing else, but I do admit that hydrofoiling looks fun!!! I want to try that. SO I guess I can be a bit grumpy about this, but like I said, I am on the largest fresh water lake in the world and the two bays I ski on are huge, so I think its quite possible that other boaters who done require very clam water can find another place to do their boating for the 5-7 mintues I am on the ski. for about 2 to 3 times. Its not like I am out there all day hogging the lake. I apologize if I seem to be a jerk on this issue. Maybe I opened my mouth a bit too much. I was just lettin off steam. :o I dont mean any disrespect to wakeboarders, tubers, etc... they have just as much right to the lake as I do. I guess I would just appreciate a bit of common sense, and common curtesy as they can see what I am doing, and where I am doing it and to stay away to not create wakes.

anyway, I just wanted to clear the air and apologize if I offended anyone with my little rant. :o This board is a GREAT place to be on the web, I really value being here and I dont want to make enemies.

kpickett

06-23-2005, 07:03 PM

It sounds like the original poster is trying to be really courteous, but that certainly is not the norm for wakeboarders around here. The power turns, the rollers that never end, actually make it impossible to ski. It's not an inconvenience, it's actually not possible to ski with that level of chop. We've had times where we just have to pull the course up and go home. And, it's like upper michigan says - there's plenty of lake out there. Why do you have to come and mess up the water by me?

And - two more things. It really bugs me that I have to slow my boat down just to cross the wake of a wakeboard boat. I'm only 33, but I remember when the only things that put out waves that big were 45 foot motor yachts. No one has even mentioned the music pumping out of the tower speakers. I live on the lake. Do these people understand how sound travels across water? If I want to listen to your music, I'll come to your house, but I'd like you to keep it away from my house.

BRAZOS 205

06-23-2005, 07:03 PM

A Public lake is a Public lake. As much as wish I could shoot jet skiers and tubers on the river with a BB gun, I want to be able to board where slalom skiers are running, and Slalom where barefooters are running, and barefoot when no one else is around. It is hard and aggrevating, especially when you are the one driving and everyone else in the boat doesn't realize what you have to do to share the water and be respectful to the other boaters.

Cbaird,
I would give the other boat a friendly wave and tell them nicely that the slalom course is on the otherside of the lake and that you will be wakeboarding on your side of the lake and you will be happy to alternate. I know it is tough to hold back, but I think it makes the other boat look like a bunch of arses if you continue to be nice. That is just my $0.02.

mcprostar197

06-23-2005, 07:10 PM

Upper Michigan Prostar190

06-23-2005, 09:13 PM

yea, like cats and dogs.....always a conflict between them.....

Ryan

06-24-2005, 01:22 AM

New batch adapts to existing culture - both change to form something new. It's very similar to the snow thing. I had a guy board over the top of my skis once, talk about coming close. :mad: But I got over it - over time. I think the mass of new snowboarders learned some manners and the peer pressure for even behavior balanced it all out, so those who continue to enter the sport model the new behavior - now we've got skiers in half pipes. Maybe we'll see someone do a slalom tick-tock up onto a rail as respect balances out on the water.

I think we all owe it to ourselves to establish some norms now on our local spots so the new wakeboarders will be more prone to follow suit - because more are coming whether we like it or not.

Since many won't like it, I project private lakes to increase by 20-25% in the next 5 years due to crouding waterways and frustration.

skisix@38

06-24-2005, 09:05 AM

John B,

They are ALL smug malibu riders!

.

John B : "If they are in a MasterCrart it should go well, but if they are in one of those other boat I don't know."

I can feel your pain but, would like to remind you that all it takes to buy any brand of boat is $$$. There is no requirement to have a consience or personality to buy or ride in ANY boat.

Upper Michigan Prostar190

06-24-2005, 09:07 AM

Heres a side note: Now I realize all things change, and things evolve, but it seems nobody of the newer generation of "skiers" are into slalom skiing. Maybe this is a geographical thing and its just that I am not exposed to any. All there are around here are wakeboarders. I have a few buddies that ski with me, we are all in our early to to late 30's. We all slalom ski. I am the youngest of all the slalom skiers in this area. SO I feel like I am the last of a dying breed in this area. There used to be ALOT of guys that slalom skied around here. The newer generation just has no interest in it. The thing that gets me is, how? I mean, I just didnt grab a set of skis one day and head to the lake and say "IM gonna learn to ski today". I was taught by my parents. They skied, and their friends all skied. My buddies all learned to ski from my parents, from their parents, or from me. It was passed down to another generation. so was the slalom skiing. I would be happy to teach younger kids to slalom. but they have no interest in it. They all want to wakeboard. It just seems to me that slalom skiing is more of an art than a sport at times. Just look at it, its graceful, elegant, yet aggresive. Wakeboarding looks exciting, the tricks are quite spectacular, but it seems to lack finess that slaloming has. Why dont the younger crowd have any interest in slaloming? I am not dissing wakeboarding, just promoting slaloming. I just hate to see slaloming fade away do to lack of interest. So am I the only one that thinks this way?

H2OGirl

06-24-2005, 09:26 AM

I feel everyone's pain here, but as a wakeboarder myself, not all of us are ***holes and rude. Remember we need glass too, it is really tough to ride in rough waters. We get out of bed early too and hit the water as early as possible to find the glass, if it is public water I say do your best to co-exist, but as long as you aren't violating any rules or laws don't give up your run. I like to ski too and I realize that skiing is definitely more fun and easier in glass water, but you skiers have to realize that the water is public and learn to adapt to the changes. I would be p'd off is some wakeboarder was too close to the course if there was a whole lake they could use, then I would have no problems asking if they would mind moving to another area.

One thing about the size of a wakeboats wake. Yes they may be large, but do you know how many times I have seen boats try to cross our wake and cross it at full speed, you can see the wake is big, why not slow down a bit before you try to jump your boat over my wake. Common sense. Oh and we do throttle down before we turn to pick up our boarder, we try not to create huge rollers.

cbaird

06-24-2005, 09:37 AM

New batch adapts to existing culture - both change to form something new. It's very similar to the snow thing. I had a guy board over the top of my skis once, talk about coming close. :mad: But I got over it - over time.

...Since many won't like it, I project private lakes to increase by 20-25% in the next 5 years due to crouding waterways and frustration.

Ryan, it's funny you mention the ski thing. On the flip side I always have skiers running over my snowboard at the lift, sometimes they say sorry and sometimes they just ignore it even when I'm watching them in their eyes while it goes on. Aftwards you get a nice scratch.

Our lake is private also, I think this adds to the situation since they have been used to having no other wakeboarders out in the am.

cbaird

06-24-2005, 09:45 AM

Upper Michigan Prostar190,

I hear what you are saying about slalom skiing, I really don't understand the fun factor (lack of being really interested in it is probably why). It looks like a good workout, but short of that what makes it fun? Seeing how fast you can go back and forth? I've slalom skied a few times and would rather wakeboard. As far as grace, i've seen tons more grace in skilled boarders that I have with skiiers. It takes alot of hand eye foot coordintation to do inverts, 360's, and so on. What new tricks to skiers do? Or do you just hone the skill.

My intention isn't to piss anyone off, just trying to understand. Been getting alot of good feedback from this thread!

jraben8

06-24-2005, 09:54 AM

Yes, this one is interesting since I can relate to both sides. I have friends that are exceptional at both skiing and boarding and will go out of their way to accommodate the other sport within reason. I will still go out before you can actually see the sun to get my sets in. At least then if I run into another they are usually very considerate because they want it nice as much as I do.

Now later in the day when my 5 year old and his friends want to sit in the tube, I'm as far away from either group as I can get (wait, maybe I just don't want them to see me pulling a tube).

stevo137

06-24-2005, 10:01 AM

This is a good subject to discuss. As I mentioned in the Lets see your X boats thread, there are many X boats and wakeboard boats on my lake. I enjoy looking at these nice machines but sometimes it is a problem.
The main problem that I deal with is that we tend to get a north wind leaving the north cove to be the best water on the lake and so we all go there for some decent water.
Most of the boarders seem to fall quite a bit and these boats send MASSIVE rollers.
I actually enjoy watching the skilled boarders but don't think that most of them have an understanding of our sport "slalom" in general.
All I'm looking for is some decent water for about three sets, that's it and I'm happy. Takes about 20 minutes and I'm good. They seem to stay stay out there for a very long time and there are quite a few of them in one boat.
I have come to terms with the fact that unless I get out there very early or on a weekday afternoon, I'm not even thinking about skiing.
In general, I think that boarding has been very good for our sport and especially it is very good clean fun for kids. I would rather see them out there than than doing other things that teens do.
One more thing, It seems like most of the boarders out there are teens and young adults and in general they are courteous and practice good safety.

east tx skier

06-24-2005, 10:15 AM

Maybe its the same thing that a lot of snow skiers think snowboarders are all a bunch of inconsiderate dicks, which some of us are but definetley not all of us. I mean, there are plenty of skiers who do stuff to piss snowboarders off all the time even if the snowboarders havent done anything. This is just my view, but i think it could be the same thing with water skiers and wakeboarders.

I've finally reconciled my snowboarder theory from a 28 year snow skier's perspective. I don't mind the ones who know what they're doing. It's the ones who are hacks and ride out of control and create near collision situations with whom I have a problem. The same goes for snow skiers.

/threadjack off.

FrankSchwab

06-24-2005, 10:23 AM

UMP -
I agree with what you said; no one seems to want to slalom. Everyone wants to wakeboard. It's rare when we see another slalom skier out on the lake - and most of the time that we do, it's a beginner on doubles.

But, it's not that different in a different hobby of mine. There are no young Hang Glider pilots either; everyone who enters the sport these days wants to Paraglide. It's kinda entertaining going to a Hang Gliding club meeting, thinking of the reputation it has in the general community, and looking around at all the greybeards talking about the same issues that they've been talking about for the last 20 years. Going to a Paragliding meeting, there's far more energy, a bunch of fresh, eager faces, and lots of stories of new things that have been accomplished. And a lot more women.

sigh.

/frank

east tx skier

06-24-2005, 10:23 AM

Why dont the younger crowd have any interest in slaloming? I am not dissing wakeboarding, just promoting slaloming. I just hate to see slaloming fade away do to lack of interest.

My theory on this is, first, because the initial task of getting up on a wakeboard and becoming a novice rider is easier than getting up on a slalom. Now before somebody thinks I'm saying that wakeboarding, overall, is easy, please don't misunderstand me. I'm just talking about the initial getting up and crossing the wakes part. Second, wakeboarding has gotten a lot of TV exposure over the last ten years. Third, between slalom-specific boats and wakeboard-specific boats, the wakeboard boats appear much better to just hang out on between sets. They have more room and aren't as tossed about by the chop. But for my love of slalom skiing, I wouldn't have much reason to buy a direct drive boat and sacrifice the interior room and the discomfort when approaching and crossing 6" rollers. So the parents of this upcoming generation, who are buying the boats, unless they are die-hard slalom skiers, will probably more easily rationalize getting a v-drive.

Just a theory.

Upper Michigan Prostar190

06-24-2005, 10:43 AM

;) Upper Michigan Prostar190,

I hear what you are saying about slalom skiing, I really don't understand the fun factor (lack of being really interested in it is probably why). It looks like a good workout, but short of that what makes it fun? Seeing how fast you can go back and forth? I've slalom skied a few times and would rather wakeboard. As far as grace, i've seen tons more grace in skilled boarders that I have with skiiers. It takes alot of hand eye foot coordintation to do inverts, 360's, and so on. What new tricks to skiers do? Or do you just hone the skill.

My intention isn't to piss anyone off, just trying to understand. Been getting alot of good feedback from this thread!

I dont know quite how to explain it cbaird....I just find slaloming fun. I guess its like Rock music vs. country music. I absolutley LOVE to rock music, and I despise and even hate country music. But to other people its very personal, and deeply moving. How, I will never understand. but thats just "different strokes for different folks". people just like different things, thats all. Those people that love country music usually despise rock and roll just as much. anyway, back to skiing....
so For me its about pushing it as much as I can on a slalom ski. so yes, for me its all about honing the skill. I want to get better and faster every trip. Its the pursuit of improvement that fuels me. I want to be as good as I can be. I want to have excellent form, have wicked turns, and create beautiful sprays. I realize it may seem boring to a wake boarder, all we slalom skiers do is go back and forth, there are no tricks. I have no desire to do tricks. its just a personal prefernce thing. But just the same as you dont see the fun in slalom skiing, I dont see the attraction of wake boarding, it doesnt appeal to me at all. Yes, its fun to watch and there is a great level of talent and skill involved in the sport, but its just not my "cup of tea". as slalom isnt yours. Its difficult to put into words how slalom skiing drives me and makes me feel. It just moves me. I wish I could describe it better. I guess the best way to look at it is: different strokes. we all like different things. you made a comment that your just trying to understand, well I am too. I wish I could offer better words to help you see slalom skiers viewpoints. but its all good, we are all skiers in one form or another. we just have to be curteous and considerate.

There are jerks, a$$holes, saints, and generally nice people from all walks of life. there are slalom skiers that are total jerks, and ones that are great people. same with anything else in life. good and bad is everywhere, we just have to find a way to deal with it the best we can. Its all good. I am just trying to get out there and have a good time. :wavey: :D

Davo

06-24-2005, 10:45 AM

cbaird, maybe I can help shed some light on the slalom fun factor. I'm not an avid slalom skier, but have gotten back into it recently.

I grew up on the water before the advent of the Skurfer so we did some slalom, some trick, tons of barefooting and alot of flipping out on the kneeboard. It was different and fun to be able to get inverted and do spins on the kneeboard. Barefooting was my next favorite due to the speed and rush that you would get. Plus, it was a great challenge. Trick skiing was kind of blah because you go slow and it was too technical for our patience level at the time. We did try to flip on the trick and that kept it semi-interesting.

As for slalom - it is somewhat of an art I guess. Sort of like in racing, choosing your "lines" is very important. Also, the speed you can generate coming out of a turn and crossing the wake when the boat alone is going 32+ mph is a rush. It could be well over 40mph - if I had to guess. Other than that, it is an insane back workout. You might think wakeboarders pull going into a raley - uh, nothing like a slalom skier pulls on a turn.

All that being said, when the Skurfer came to be we jumped on it and never looked back - until recently that is. Now I'm in my early 30's and have been barefooting and slalom skiing again on a regular basis, but I still wakeboard and wakeskate mostly because I have been doing it for so long and the possibilities are endless it seems. There is endless room for creativity in wakeboarding that you don't really find in the other water sports in my opinion. Two people can do the same move and it will look totally different. I'm not sure that can be said about slalom.

Anyways, with regards to your situation on the lake with the slalom skiiers - you are being considerate and have made an effort and that's all you can do. Try and communicate out there on the water. If more people did this our lakes would be a lot better off!

east tx skier

06-24-2005, 10:48 AM

Slalom is just wonderful. Just something you can only truly understand by experiencing it when it comes together. Sort of like hitting that perfect golf shot. I mean look at golf. Does it look fun if you've never hit that perfect ice cream ball.

Davo

06-24-2005, 10:51 AM

Definitely. There is a pursuit of perfection with slalom very similair to golf...good analogy.

LakePirate

06-24-2005, 11:00 AM

What new tricks to skiers do?

See Chris Parrish 2 @ 43 off.

I recently read somewhere (probably waterskimag) that slalom skiing is making a resurgance. The fan base that supported Tournament skiing in the 80's are now raising kids. Kids that ski. While often younger kids/teenagers/teenagers at heart want to wakeboard they are learning the art of slalom. While it is exciting to see the big air tricks, it is also exciting watch a good skier tear up some glass.

Respect for all of the activities on the lake is needed. I feel that we base our opinions on events that have happened to us on the lake. Often times it is not a fair representation of all that are there.

The real problem is inexperienced boat drivers. With the advent of PP it makes it easier for average joe to give a good pull. (and saved a few marriages, or so I am told.) Wakeboarding has given a different population a reason to buy a boat and take to the water. I for one think that is great. However, they are new to the lake so they don't understand/know what the correct protocol is. As much as I wish it did, giving someone the finger and cussing them as they speed by doesn't work.

"Why can't we all get along?" :D

cbaird

06-24-2005, 11:21 AM

I agree with the real problem of inexperienced boat drivers - they drive me CRAZY!

I hate to go the route of more burocracy, but I think everyone should have a endoresment on your drivers license to operate a boat. Just like you do when you ride a motorcycle. This way at least people will have had the laws explained to them and general navigation. Rather than people who buy a boat and just launch it and go any which way out of control. I've known people like this and see it alot. These are the guys going all balls out with their kids on their jet skis going in the opposite direction of flow, cutting over everyones wakes with a GIANT grin on their faces. They have no clue about anyone else besides themselves.

Besides this group the next one in line is those dam pontooners. Can they please stay close to shore and not go in the middle of the lake or float in the middle of the runs. These guys can clog a small lake when they are in numbers.

Upper Michigan Prostar190

06-24-2005, 11:23 AM

Slalom is just wonderful. Just something you can only truly understand by experiencing it when it comes together.

Well said. Very well said.

Speaking of new and old.....does anyone here remember saucers?? I still have my dad's old saucer. He went on it about 10 years ago. He used to have a blast on that thing. Just curious if anyone ever used one.....?? or even heard of them :confused: they were used in the 70's and very early 80's

Upper Michigan Prostar190

06-24-2005, 11:28 AM

[QUOTE=cbaird]

I hate to go the route of more burocracy, but I think everyone should have a endoresment on your drivers license to operate a boat. [QUOTE]

YOU SAID IT MY FRIEND!!!! :toast:

People think they can write a check, and they are automatically a boat driver. NOT!

We really do need some training, education, and standards implemented there. and I am NOT one to want more laws..... but we need better trained boaters out there. there are FAR too many idiots on the water...

Davo

06-24-2005, 11:31 AM

Drawing a blank on that one, UMP.

Enlighten us...what does this "saucer" resemble? My guess would be a kneeboard.

east tx skier

06-24-2005, 11:35 AM

Speaking of new and old.....does anyone here remember saucers?? I still have my dad's old saucer. He went on it about 10 years ago. He used to have a blast on that thing. Just curious if anyone ever used one.....?? or even heard of them :confused: they were used in the 70's and very early 80's

I'm imagining those dish-style snow sleds? We've still got a working "zip sled" from the 70s/80s.

AirJunky

06-24-2005, 11:43 AM

I've been into slalom, wakeboard & hydrofoil over the last 14 yrs or so of owning boats. Of the 3 discipilines, I definitely had a LOT more fun in the newest one of the time. Slalom was very limiting & one dimensional, cut back & forth over & over. Yes there is the "perfection" aspect of it, but I never got too hung up in that.... plus it's applies to all discipilines anyway. I wish I had gotten into hot dog skiing back then.
Wakeboard offers the ability to jump the wake & do tons of tricks, only limited by the rider's imagination. But with bigger wakes & getting older, I had problems with my knees after a few years.
Hydrofoil offers even more air. Plus there is a certain high tech aspect of it, understanding how it flies & how you ride it to your advantage. More tricks still & appears to be riden more & more by old barefooters, slalom skiers, & wakeboarders. Riding styles on a foil come from all the dicipilines & can be very apparant as you watch various riders..... cutting in a slalom style, body slides like a hot dog skiers, inverts & spins like a wakeboarders, even skidders like a barefooter. To me, after 14 yrs of trying them all, it just seems like the epitome of all the discipilines.

cbaird

06-24-2005, 11:53 AM

Hyrdrofoil looks like fun (always wanted to try it), I used to watch them do that when back in the 80's on my grandparents lake. I haven't seen anyone do it in the past ten years or so. It must be vary limited crowd who currently does it.

Davo

06-24-2005, 12:01 PM

Airjunky, we rented one for the day back when they first hit the shops (I think in the late eighties) and I couldn't do squat on it and never tried it again. It was hard for me to keep it "level" since you're not really riding on the surface. It's definitely different and actually, I can't recall one time since then where I've seen someone riding one in Florida...I guess I haven't been exposed to current day airchair riding.

At this point though, I'm somewhat curious. Wait, no I'm not. I will never come over to the dark side! Never! :D

Upper Michigan Prostar190

06-24-2005, 12:23 PM

the saucer is just that, a saucer. Its a circular piece of wood, slightly concave. you kneel on it to start and hold the edge of the saucer with the ski rope, the boat starts you off and you plane out instantly. then you get up and stand, you can do 180's 360's and ifyour good 540's. you can cross the wake, but its a challenge. the speed is very slow, so it enables some fun things. my dad used to have the driver go very close to shore, and my mom would hand him props every time he went by. He would get a lawn chair on there, sit on it with a beer, sunglasses, a baseball cap, and a lit cigar just to be goofy and show off. one time he had a bit too much courage....there was a step ladder in his buddies truck on shore.....yea, you guess it, he stood the step ladder up on the saucer and climbed it to the top and sat there. I swear to god on this. we even have pictures of it somewhere. I am gonna have to ask my mom to dig those up, I know she has them somewhere at their house. I still have that "ski-torture" device as my buddy used to refer to it. :purplaugh that thing was a hoot. My dad taught my buddy to ride it about 15 years ago.

My dad also had this thing called an "aqua plane" which you towed. it was basically a 6 ft peice of plywood with a rope for a handle. You stood on it and got towed. that thing was WICKED!! corners were evil as it built speed at a crazy rate. the wipe outs were devastating. I never rode that, but I watched it plenty as a child. I dont know what happened to that.....

I may just have to dig that saucer out and try it.....

AirJunky

06-24-2005, 12:29 PM

Hydrofoil is getting more exposure lately, especially in Florida. The Florida Flyin (http://www.floridaflyin.com) is in it's (I think) 7th year with more riders showing up every year. It's been on Lake Placid every year & will be moving next year to a new location. Geno Yauchler & the event organizers live near West Palm Beach, plus there is a big group riders in Tampa/St Pete.

This year, with the intro of US Hydrofoil Association (http://www.hydrofoil.org) to USA Waterski & the recognition of Hydrofoil as an official discipiline, we have more events in the US & abroad than ever before. And each of the older events is reporting more attendees than ever. This weekend is the Tennessee Flyin (http://www.tnflyin.com) ....... which is one of the most fun houseboat trips I've ever taken.
If anyone wants to meet riders in their area, drop me a line at bill@airjunky.com & I'll forward your contact info to someone in your area. Also, you can visit the Hydrofoil Yahoogroup (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hydrofoil), the largest organized group of riders on or off the net.

Ryan

06-24-2005, 12:33 PM

Air - You've done a body slide on a foil!?! I'd love to see that! Got any pics?

AirJunky

06-24-2005, 12:41 PM

Hey Ryan,
Heres a shot (http://www.cyber-sea.com/htmfiles/g15j.htm) of Ron Stack doing a body slide on a Sky Ski. Ron is the owner of AirBoom & a long time foil rider, boarder & surfer.

Ty 73

06-24-2005, 01:08 PM

UMP - If you find those pictures, I'd really like to see them. The saucer sounds bigger than I was first imagining. What can't you ride behind a boat? good stuff.

Ryan

06-24-2005, 01:12 PM

woops .

Ryan

06-24-2005, 01:26 PM

Wakeboarding spreads like drugs and AOL - social pressure and many opportunities for free trial. Part of the problem with Skiing's growth is the lack of direct exposure - and of course the lack of hype in media. Take more people skiing! Teach three people to ski a month and it could come back. I have my regulars but will be taking some newbies out this weekend.

Ryan

06-24-2005, 01:28 PM

Tod Ristorcelli intro to June, 2005 issue of WSMag.

"Load It Up And Go
Picture two scenarios. The first: Two skiers cautiously idle over to the slalom course so as not to disturb the glass-calm conditions. As one skier suits up for his run, the driver accurately positions a bucket of sand near the sidewall of the boat, evenly distributing the weight to provide optimum performance. Meanwhile, four of their friends are left at the dock in order to preserve the quality of the wake-small and soft as possible, right?
The second: Eight wakeboarders load the boat and cruise the lake to scope a sweet riding locale. As one of the riders gets dialed to session the wake, the thumping boat from the stereo enhances the vice in the boat. There’s laughter and camaraderie 0 the more heads, the more stoke. Welcome to the party on the water, right?
Although each lake outing has its merits, joining the crew of wakeboarders sounds more enticing to me – and I’m a skier. What’s wrong with this picture?
As Skiers, I think we’re all a little selfish of our time on the water. We want the fewest heads in the boat – the lightest boat crew – the best water. Heck, most of the time we’re off the lake by 11:00am because we don’t want to deal with other boaters. Yeah, there’s not a better feeling than cutting into that morning butter, but there’s plenty of stoke awaiting the crew that makes a day on the water. I know, I know – that slightly smaller wake may help you run your personal best, but that’s not the most important thing every day. Think about your friends on the dock and the isolation they’re dealing with because you chose and inch less wake over their company.
Sometimes you just have to load up the boat and go for it – and I’m not talking about ballast bags. Show your friends and your local lake community the thrill, speed and energy of water skiing. Who cares if the conditions are less than ideal? After all, it’s summer and you’re with your friends – not a bucket of sand."

stevo137

06-24-2005, 03:42 PM

This link might help explain. Check out the 197 vid.
Great swimsuit action too! :D
I'll take the 197 and some glass anyday!
All of us, boarders and skiers could have a blast with that machine!
Notice how well the boat tracks on the hardest cuts.
http://www.waterskimag.com/boat_search.do?product=boat&typeID=181%2C136%2C269%2C270&categoryID=112%2C115&specID=113&from=&to=&year=2005&manufacturerID=17146

Cheecher

06-24-2005, 04:02 PM

Ryan - Wow! What a way to put it. I guess sometimes I am guilty of making sure the wake is right, and the balance of the boat is perfect etc etc, and I overlook the fun of it. I guess sometimes we need to step back, and get a little perspective.

On the other hand, I will toss my vote in, on the driving. I make sure that any, and everyone who may possibly drive my boat understands, that you do not power turn for no reason. If its an emergency, then by all means do what you have to do, but I notice so many people really screwing up there own water power turning. Anyway this article sums it up pretty good for me. I read this a long while back, and ended up showing a few people how to drive their own boats........ http://www.wakeworld.com/articles/2003/thatboat.asp