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AUFan
04-13-2010, 12:23 AM
Greetings everyone, I am a TT noob and apologize if this has already been answered, but I can't find exactly the information I am looking for.

Here is the situation: I have a 1999 Mastercraft Maristar 210 VRS w/ LT1 motor. I went through and winterized it this past year. I pulled both port and starboard block plugs, disconnected manifold hoses on front and back of manifolds, emptied impeller housing, disconnected raw water line on both sides of trans cooler. It is hard from memory, but I remember at least 2-4 gallons of water coming out of the motor. I did all of this while the boat was sitting level in my storage unit (uncovered.) I did not fog the motor. I did not put antifreeze in the motor. I did not button the motor back up. I closed the hatch, put all the spare parts into a Ziploc bag and the boat was left in this condition for 6 mos.

I was changing the oil today and, when i pulled the plug out of the drain line, water was the first thing I saw. :eek: I went ahead and changed the oil and oil filter. I checked the fluids and everything looked ok. dipstick was nothing but oil. Fired up the motor on fake a lake. Let the motor come up to temp,pulled the dipstick, and chocolate milk...:confused: I will look in better light tomorrow, but I can't find any visible cracks on the block, the motor doesn't miss or knock, and the oil pressure responds quickly and appropriately when engine is revved (~80 psi for ~4K RPM).

My next steps: Run a pressure test on all cylinders, check to make sure freeze plugs are still intact, and make sure no water is visibly leaking down the block.

Possible Problems???: Exhaust Manifold Leak?, Timing is off?(i.e. exhaust valve open at same time as intake.), Bad Head Gasket?, Cracked Head?, Condensation from leaving block open to elements? (We did have one of our worst winters in Northern AL in 10+yrs )

Oh and my wife will kill me if it's a busted block. :cry:

thatsmrmastercraft
04-13-2010, 12:40 AM
Sounds like you missed filling that engine up with RV antifreeze.

Before you go any farther, did you turn on the water to the fake-a-lake before the engine was running? If you did, that is possibly where the water came from (backing up into the exhaust manifold and in through open exhaust valves).

I am a fresh convert to not using a fake-a-lake. See this and several other threads : http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=34750

AUFan
04-13-2010, 12:45 AM
I thought the RV antifreeze tore up aluminum blocks?

Yes. I turned the water on before i turned the motor on. Should I drain oil and try again...in a lake?

CruisinGA
04-13-2010, 12:48 AM
I thought the RV antifreeze tore up aluminum blocks?

Yes. I turned the water on before i turned the motor on. Should I drain oil and try again...in a lake?

Right- you should use automotive antifreeze, not RV. However, you shouldn't have to use antifreeze, it's an option.

You should change your oil until it no longer shows any sign of water, click the link MrMC posted, and run your boat using the bucket-o-water method.

AUFan
04-13-2010, 12:54 AM
just finished the bucket-o-water post, very interesting! I would never have thought of that. Does it matter if I "flush" the system with cheap, out of spec oil? I would then finish the job with some Rotella, but would like to keep this as economical as possible. I just dropped $800 in parts on the truck (2 tires, half shaft, and a wheel hub assy)

thatsmrmastercraft
04-13-2010, 12:55 AM
Don't have the answer about RV antifreeze and aluminum blocks.

If you do a search or look at the thread in my previous post, it will explain how to run in your driveway using a 5 gallon pail, a garden hose, and your raw water pump feed hose in the pail. Better water supply and you won't risk forcing water into your engine. I did that two times before I learned the right way to do it.

You want to get that oil/water mixture out ASAP. Then flush with 5 quarts of cheap oil. The fill with good oil. Then check your compression. Then run it in the driveway with the 5 gallon pail method.

AUFan
04-13-2010, 01:00 AM
I understand how water could get into the motor on the fake-a-lake..any thoughts on the water in the system before i hooked it up

Kyle
04-13-2010, 01:46 AM
I really dont understand how water could get into the crank case with the fake a lake.

The water can only enter through the inlet hose and go to raw pump with an impeller in it restricting flow somewhat. Then it will go out of the raw pump and to a thermostat housing and start flowing through water jackets in the engine. Once the Tstat opens it will recirculate water through engine to keep things at 160 or 180. There is not a way to get water into the exhaust valves even if you are filling up the manifolds and it starts draining out the pipes. Water doesnt mix with the exhaust until the bottom of the riser and it cant go back up the pipe because gravity will not let it run bacwards into the exhaust manifold. If it did the valves would bend and engine would not run correctly.

If you look under the boat the inlet is facing forward. If you are running 45 then water is being ram rodded or forced up into the water inlet. This would be a LOT more pressure that any house hose could put into the water inlet. Its not like you are using high pressure like driving 45.

If you put a fake a lake on and left the water running for an hour and came back to start the boat there should not be any damage done from the fake a lake. Just a hours long of wasted water.

I bet you have some kind of other issue. I would do a compression test first and test for leak down. If I were to place a bet you have either cracked something obvioiusly not good or have a blown head gasket. Its weird because you say the engine runs smooth and a head gasket would probably show some kind of running issue. Not to be negative but you may have cracked the block from the inside where the cylinder wall and the water jacket runs. If this is the case you will not find an external crack and keep wasting money on new oil changes.

Please keep us in the loop on what you find, as I am curious. Good Luck

hkallestad
04-13-2010, 03:51 AM
I have freshwater cooling and it seem's that the raw water pump sucks up even more water with this because of less resistance in the system(not having to pump water through the engine, only the heat exchanger). I have a good water supply but it can't keep up with the thirsty engine at idle.

AUFan
04-13-2010, 08:55 AM
Not to be negative but you may have cracked the block from the inside where the cylinder wall and the water jacket runs.

I'll be honest, this is what scares me the most. I will run a compression test later today. Only way to see if this is the problem though is to tear the motor down. :(

I guess this is also the reason you change the oil at the end of the season. This could have been a problem that manifested last season, but because I didn't take the time to do things right the first time it is now biting me in the butt. live and learn. here's to hoping it is not a terribly expensive mistake.

JimN
04-13-2010, 09:25 AM
Greetings everyone, I am a TT noob and apologize if this has already been answered, but I can't find exactly the information I am looking for.

Here is the situation: I have a 1999 Mastercraft Maristar 210 VRS w/ LT1 motor. I went through and winterized it this past year. I pulled both port and starboard block plugs, disconnected manifold hoses on front and back of manifolds, emptied impeller housing, disconnected raw water line on both sides of trans cooler. It is hard from memory, but I remember at least 2-4 gallons of water coming out of the motor. I did all of this while the boat was sitting level in my storage unit (uncovered.) I did not fog the motor. I did not put antifreeze in the motor. I did not button the motor back up. I closed the hatch, put all the spare parts into a Ziploc bag and the boat was left in this condition for 6 mos.

I was changing the oil today and, when i pulled the plug out of the drain line, water was the first thing I saw. :eek: I went ahead and changed the oil and oil filter. I checked the fluids and everything looked ok. dipstick was nothing but oil. Fired up the motor on fake a lake. Let the motor come up to temp,pulled the dipstick, and chocolate milk...:confused: I will look in better light tomorrow, but I can't find any visible cracks on the block, the motor doesn't miss or knock, and the oil pressure responds quickly and appropriately when engine is revved (~80 psi for ~4K RPM).

My next steps: Run a pressure test on all cylinders, check to make sure freeze plugs are still intact, and make sure no water is visibly leaking down the block.

Possible Problems???: Exhaust Manifold Leak?, Timing is off?(i.e. exhaust valve open at same time as intake.), Bad Head Gasket?, Cracked Head?, Condensation from leaving block open to elements? (We did have one of our worst winters in Northern AL in 10+yrs )

Oh and my wife will kill me if it's a busted block. :cry:

How milky is it? Post a photo of the oil. If it's dark brown and a little milky, change it, start it and change it again, with a new filter. Use cheap oil since you'll be discarding it. If it becomes milky immediately, shut it off and find out why it happened.

Re: your timing- that would be valve timing and of that's off enough to cause a problem, you'd know it. Look at your freeze plugs and if one or more has crept out, you may have a cracked block.

CruisinGA
04-13-2010, 09:38 AM
This old thread would have me convinced not to run RV antifreeze in an aluminum engine-
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/archive/index.php/t-19490.html

JLeuck64
04-13-2010, 09:55 AM
Ya I gots me an LT1 also. Never have filled it with anti-freeze during the lay up. I would think you are in no danger of cracked block or exhaust manifolds if you drained everything.

I replaced my exhaust manifold riser gaskets last summer since there were some rust stains going down the outside of the manifolds. Those little guys often get overlooked as the source of water entering the engine... Might want to swap yours out before you get to carried away looking inside the engine for the source!

AUFan
04-13-2010, 10:29 AM
How milky is it? Post a photo of the oil. If it's dark brown and a little milky, change it, start it and change it again, with a new filter. Use cheap oil since you'll be discarding it. If it becomes milky immediately, shut it off and find out why it happened.


OK, I will get a good photo of oil in present state, drain and replace, fire back up, and repost with pics of second batch of oil. I will not be able to get home until a bit later today. I can't thank everyone enough for the input. I was thinking of using some 10W-40 to do these tests with. anyone see a problem with that?

Jorski
04-13-2010, 10:37 AM
Here is the situation: I have a 1999 Mastercraft Maristar 210 VRS w/ LT1 motor. I went through and winterized it this past year. I pulled both port and starboard block plugs, disconnected manifold hoses on front and back of manifolds, emptied impeller housing, disconnected raw water line on both sides of trans cooler. It is hard from memory, but I remember at least 2-4 gallons of water coming out of the motor. I did all of this while the boat was sitting level in my storage unit (uncovered.) I did not fog the motor. I did not put antifreeze in the motor. I did not button the motor back up. I closed the hatch, put all the spare parts into a Ziploc bag and the boat was left in this condition for 6 mos.

Did you remember to remove the knock sensor on the driver's side? It is the lowest drain on an LT1 on that side of the block. One other possibility, I have had scale, rust and lake debris completely block one of the drain holes before. It took scratching around with an awl to free the debris so that the block would drain properly.

JimN
04-13-2010, 10:38 AM
OK, I will get a good photo of oil in present state, drain and replace, fire back up, and repost with pics of second batch of oil. I will not be able to get home until a bit later today. I can't thank everyone enough for the input. I was thinking of using some 10W-40 to do these tests with. anyone see a problem with that?

You won't be running it hard- the viscosity won't matter much. You're trying to eliminate the water, not get maximum performance.

Just as a general hint, is it like coffee with a lot of cream or just a splash? If it's just a splash, knowing that you're in the SE, where it can be very humid and you can have a lot of temperature inversions over the winter, this could be from condensation. If it's light, like a milk shake, it's not good. Still, it could be nothing worse than a bad intake or head gasket. The most expensive part of this will be the tear-down, cleaning/testing and reassembly. I would recommend having the block magna-fluxed and the heads pressure tested for cracks. DO NOT reuse the head bolts.

AUFan
04-13-2010, 10:49 AM
crap...it's coffee with a lot of cream...

AUFan
04-13-2010, 10:51 AM
Did you remember to remove the knock sensor on the driver's side? It is the lowest drain on an LT1 on that side of the block. One other possibility, I have had scale, rust and lake debris completely block one of the drain holes before. It took scratching around with an awl to free the debris so that the block would drain properly.

yes, i completely removed the knock sensor. I don't remember any blockages when i pulled the block plugs. The water flowed freely.

AUFan
04-13-2010, 11:01 AM
DO NOT reuse the head bolts.

Oh yeah... made that mistake on a car motor ONCE.

CantRepeat
04-13-2010, 11:02 AM
crap...it's coffee with a lot of cream...

Well, when you change the oil and run the motor again get down next to the motor and look for water come out from just below heads on the block and around where the heads bolt on.

Hopefully it's nothing or at worse a blown head gasket and not a block.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, good luck.

JimN
04-13-2010, 12:03 PM
crap...it's coffee with a lot of cream...

Pull your spark plugs and look for the same stuff. If you see any, it's likely that you have a bad head gasket. Not a good thing, but if that's the cause, it's not the worst.

Do a compression test. Put something on the carpet and gunwales to avoid staining and crank it with the key with the plugs out- you may see some stuff come out of the spark plug holes.

Thrall
04-13-2010, 03:08 PM
If your old oil from last season had water in it like you said, at least it's not likely a winterization issue (cracked block or something like that).
Boat ran fine when you put it up in the fall I presume?
I'd do a couple more el cheapo oil changes first just to rule out some major condensation in the engine, maybe even pull the impeller and run the engine dry for a minute or 2 at a time, pay attention to the exhaust hoses and mufflers so not to cook those, but the engine will be fine running a couple minutes at a time starting cold. Start, run for a min, let it cool for a while, restart, etc. If the oil comes out clean like this, you have problems elsewhere, been discussed. If it's a blown intake manifold gasket or head gasket, the cyl that it's leaking into should be apparent by comparing sparkplugs. Compression/leakdown test would tell you the same.
I think it's unlikely that the block cracked since you siad everything drained out in the fall.
Good luck

Kyle
04-13-2010, 03:57 PM
Inspect your plugs and see if there is a noticable bad cylinder as mentioned above. Turning engine over without plugs to see if you get junk flying out of the plug hole is a good idea too. I bet the removal of the plulgs will give you a good start.

I winterize the same way that you do and I have never had a problem. I winterize my boat several time bc I use mine in the winter. I also winterize about 6 other boats the same way as you have done and have never had any problems.

You may have had this issue last year and just now found it. Do you ever beach your boat and run it to charge the battery like at an island or sandbar party area....and answer honestly? My buddy has a Baja and the outdrive sucked up little pebbles and sand that got stuck in the water jacket. We removed the engine to bore it out and add a super charger along with the freshen up and noticed the sand. If you had a spot that did not flow right or trash is in a jacket, the cylinder could run too hot last year possibly cracking it or not drain over the winter also cracking the wall to the jacket. If it was running hot your temp guage would be off because that cylinder would be the only one hot. This may have caused a head gasket issue as well.

Please show compression test results cranking without any plugs and throttle wide open and show results per cylinder. Pics of the oil would be nice. Pics of the plugs would be nice.

If you are getting water in the oil I sure would not run the engine too long. Oil gets up by the valves and you sure dont want to risk bending them.

This brings up another point. Water does not compress and your compression test could be off. I would change the oil and crank it over a few times without plugs and do the test with clean oil. Then start it chasing down the what iffs after you put the plugs back in and have it running.

ahhudgins
04-13-2010, 05:37 PM
I really dont understand how water could get into the crank case with the fake a lake.

The water can only enter through the inlet hose and go to raw pump with an impeller in it restricting flow somewhat. Then it will go out of the raw pump and to a thermostat housing and start flowing through water jackets in the engine. Once the Tstat opens it will recirculate water through engine to keep things at 160 or 180. There is not a way to get water into the exhaust valves even if you are filling up the manifolds and it starts draining out the pipes. Water doesnt mix with the exhaust until the bottom of the riser and it cant go back up the pipe because gravity will not let it run bacwards into the exhaust manifold. If it did the valves would bend and engine would not run correctly.

If you look under the boat the inlet is facing forward. If you are running 45 then water is being ram rodded or forced up into the water inlet. This would be a LOT more pressure that any house hose could put into the water inlet. Its not like you are using high pressure like driving 45.

If you put a fake a lake on and left the water running for an hour and came back to start the boat there should not be any damage done from the fake a lake. Just a hours long of wasted water.

I bet you have some kind of other issue. I would do a compression test first and test for leak down. If I were to place a bet you have either cracked something obvioiusly not good or have a blown head gasket. Its weird because you say the engine runs smooth and a head gasket would probably show some kind of running issue. Not to be negative but you may have cracked the block from the inside where the cylinder wall and the water jacket runs. If this is the case you will not find an external crack and keep wasting money on new oil changes.

Please keep us in the loop on what you find, as I am curious. Good Luck

I've often thought the same thing, but I'll let you be first out of the gate. I've used the garden hose to the transmission cooler method for over 20 years and I've never had a problem leaving the water on....it just flows out of the mufflers. The only way I could get water to backup into my riser would be to hold the exhaust flap shut. You would either have to have a bad riser gasket or the trailer tilted so far that the exhaust flaps were above the risers.

AUFan
04-13-2010, 06:24 PM
Here are some pics of the oil....it's a lot worse in daylight than it looked at twilight last night.

Update: All freeze plugs are intact. Some of the spark plugs look a little burned on the threads, but i've seen worse. The gaps look good and the electrodes not misshapen and are white. Going to put fresh oil in the system and drain it. Going to put another batch of oil in the system and run it dry with no plugs. If that pans out, I'll run it dry and do compression test.

I will say, my header gaskets look terrible, i will post some pics in a minute.

JimN
04-13-2010, 07:52 PM
If the plugs are white, it's running lean and that indicates excessive heat. They should be tan or light brown in most cases or darker if the boat is idled a lot.

One thing about a bad head or intake gasket is that it doesn't necessarily leak into the cylinder- it can easily leak into the oil galley or the oil passages adjacent to the water passages. Most of the time, water won't go into the cylinder and if it does, you'll see a lot of steam when it runs. If you have a way to look into each cylinder, look at the tops of the pistons- if one or more is exceptionally clean, it could be that water is getting in. If they all look normal (black with a bit of carbon), it could be a gasket leak.

AUFan
04-13-2010, 09:40 PM
sorry for the delay in information. the wife put the kibosh on my plans tonight....I did however flush the motor with more oil. It is now dripping fresh, clean, water-free oil. I am going to drain the block, exhaust, intakes of water so that i can get a better baseline, but that will have to wait until tomorrow. Thanks again for the input. I will post pics/updates as I work.

Kyle
04-14-2010, 03:57 AM
AUFan

Thats a LOT of water and not condensation. Please let us know how it runs and if it has power or lack of power. I would see if you could go to Home Depot or Auto Zone and pick up a light that is on the end of a snake or a snake screw driver. I have seen some small lights that have a bendable shaft were you can angle it. They have an led on the end and I would stick it into the spark plug hole and inspect it, looking at the top of the piston and the cylinder walls. See if you have a clean cylinder or a few of them. JIM has a very good idea here. You may need to turn the engine over to make every piston top dead center and inspect every one of them. I bet since you are running your engine without a load it will be hard to see if it runs right or not. If you have a few spark plugs that are white and the cylinders have been lean or running hot that is another concern. If you have a blown head gasket something may have caused it. We may need to see if you are getting water through the block properly or if you have some obstruction, check this later not now. You may also need to see if your heads are warped or the block is not square too.

Did you keep the spark plugs in order so you will know were or what hole they came out of. I would check all of the holes but the white plugs may be where your problem lies.

Dont panic we are all here for you...

Kyle
04-14-2010, 04:07 AM
Tomorrow when you run it and check the oil make sure that you are not burning oil and look to see if you have blue smoke comming from the exhaust without water attached to the boat. This will indicate that your are burining it through the combustion chamber and it is going through the exhaust manifold and out the back. I would also check your dip stick to see if you are burning it slowly and see if you are consuming oil. Do all of your test and then run it again on the water. Watch for a oily slick in the drive way where water and oil have been running through the exhaust. This will indicate that you are getting oil into water stream and it is running through the riser and out the back.

kbhtjc
04-14-2010, 10:10 AM
Late to the thread, but here is my 2 cents. On the LT1 do not use auto antifreeze. Automotive is salt based and your LT1 has aluminum heads with a cast block. Salt can corrode the aluminum. RV antifreeze is Alcohol based and will not effect your heads.
As for the water in oil, sounds like cracked head or gasket to me.
The exhaust manifolds are designed to crack out if there is water. The exhaust portion is thicker than the water jacket portion, therefore cracking the thinner wall first.

AUFan
04-14-2010, 07:41 PM
update: drained the boat of all water and oil. replaced oil. Ran boat dry 3 different times for intervals of approximately 15-20 seconds. no smoke, no water on dipstick :rolleyes:, boat sounds great....so good that my wife said..."Sounds like you fixed it. When are we going out?"

Also, I noticed that my impeller doesn't sit in the center of the impeller housing. Is this normal?

Footin
04-14-2010, 07:45 PM
Yes that is normal for the impeller to be off center.

JimN
04-14-2010, 07:54 PM
update: drained the boat of all water and oil. replaced oil. Ran boat dry 3 different times for intervals of approximately 15-20 seconds. no smoke, no water on dipstick :rolleyes:, boat sounds great....so good that my wife said..."Sounds like you fixed it. When are we going out?"

Also, I noticed that my impeller doesn't sit in the center of the impeller housing. Is this normal?

Now, you need to run it with water. Before you run it, connect the water to the hose from the raw water pump outlet and just let the water go where it will. After about 5 minutes, pull the dipstick and look for water. If you see any, you'll know it still has a problem.

AUFan
04-14-2010, 08:55 PM
Yes that is normal for the impeller to be off center.

Good, because I still haven't found the finesse that it takes to remove my impeller without destroying it...oh well.

Compression Test Parameters:
I let the cylinder go through two compression cycles and measured the second one. I tried to measure the compression spike rather than the final needle resting position. All cylinders on the first compression cycle hit in the 125-140psi range.

Results:
Cylinder (in order of sampling) PSI
2 160
4 155
6 160
8 160
1 160
3 160
5 160
7 165
I would give my margin of error +/- 5 psi (10 psi total range)

Chicago190
04-14-2010, 09:02 PM
Well your compression test looks like good news, at least you know the head gasket is intact. On the other hand, if you find water in the oil, then you know that you have a cracked block. Hope it works out.

Marky-mark
04-15-2010, 04:07 PM
I know its a different engine - but I had all the problems you describe a couple of years ago on a Mercruiser 3.0 ltr with just as much water in the oil. After changing the head gasket for no reason it finally turned out to be a leak in the exhaust manifold casting. It was only 4 years old too. Maybe it would be worth getting the manifolds pressure tested. That's what found the fault for me.

AUFan
04-15-2010, 04:39 PM
I know its a different engine - but I had all the problems you describe a couple of years ago on a Mercruiser 3.0 ltr with just as much water in the oil. After changing the head gasket for no reason it finally turned out to be a leak in the exhaust manifold casting. It was only 4 years old too. Maybe it would be worth getting the manifolds pressure tested. That's what found the fault for me.

I am still hoping that it is a manifold. I was very cautious when i winterized it this year. Plus after I winterized it I then had to tow it to the lot for storage. I am still skeptical that enough water remained in the block to crack it.

Here's to hoping for the best.

Marky-mark
04-15-2010, 05:09 PM
My boat filled the oil with water in mid summer. Only found it when I checked the oil level. No idea why it happened. The guy who found the fault said he thought the casting was faulty. Shouldn't have rusted through so quick. Maybe this happened on your boat at the end of the season without you knowing about it? As I said though - its just a theory.

AUFan
04-15-2010, 09:03 PM
update:
I hooked up a hosepipe to the raw water feed. I let the water run for ~10 minutes. After i shut off the water, and checked the dipstick: no water. I am going to let it sit overnight and check it again tomorrow.

Plans for tomorrow:
If it doesn't show any signs of water, I am going to let the motor run and check it at ~1 minute intervals. Will also try to correlate the water temp in the motor with the condition of the oil. If it gets really bad again, I will start tearing down the top of the motor.

CantRepeat
04-15-2010, 09:09 PM
Good, because I still haven't found the finesse that it takes to remove my impeller without destroying it...oh well.



I had the same issue with impellers but then read on here about spraying them with WD-40 while turning the motor over with out the kill switch in. Then just grab it with pliers and it pulls right out!!!

Kyle
04-16-2010, 03:20 AM
That compression is good news.... I still would like to know where the water came from. Good luck and keep informing us.

AUFan
04-16-2010, 10:56 AM
After sitting all night, the dipstick still shows no water. I will pull the block plugs to see how much water actually made it in the block, but I will fire it up after I get my chores done. The lovely wife decided to host a party tonight so it might be tomorrow before I can actually get a chance to work on it.

CantRepeat
04-16-2010, 10:58 AM
After sitting all night, the dipstick still shows no water. I will pull the block plugs to see how much water actually made it in the block, but I will fire it up after I get my chores done. The lovely wife decided to host a party tonight so it might be tomorrow before I can actually get a chance to work on it.

I'm glad it seems to working out in your favor!

Now, you said lovely wife and a party, it goes without saying the board will need proof of such party! :D

AZDave
04-16-2010, 12:13 PM
Needle nose Vise Grips work also.

AUFan
04-18-2010, 04:53 PM
alright...I am now totally confused.....Ok so no water in the oil after 2 days of a block full of water. I fired up the boat with water going to the raw feed and the oil immediately became a little milky. Not surprising considering how much water was in the oil just a few days earlier. I continued to let it run, and the oil actually cleared up as the motor came up to operating temp. now the oil is basically clear with a few small bubbles. :huh:

JimN
04-18-2010, 05:09 PM
alright...I am now totally confused.....Ok so no water in the oil after 2 days of a block full of water. I fired up the boat with water going to the raw feed and the oil immediately became a little milky. Not surprising considering how much water was in the oil just a few days earlier. I continued to let it run, and the oil actually cleared up as the motor came up to operating temp. now the oil is basically clear with a few small bubbles. :huh:

Next time you let it sit, remove the spark plugs and crank it before starting it. If water sprays out, you'll know something is going on.

slickwater1
04-18-2010, 08:43 PM
sounds like air in the oil, instead of water. don't know what would cause that or if that is even an option. just sounds crazy.

AUFan
04-18-2010, 10:26 PM
Next time you let it sit, remove the spark plugs and crank it before starting it. If water sprays out, you'll know something is going on.

Roger that. It will be a couple of days before I can check for this anyways. I was crawling around the block looking for leaks and actually found a couple of leaks in my quiet exhaust system. Pulled the fiberglass unit out and am going to patch it. I will need to let the patches set before I can fire it back up.

sounds like air in the oil, instead of water. don't know what would cause that or if that is even an option. just sounds crazy.
I personally think the bubbles were emulsified water. We'll see.

I will post again when I am able to patch the exhaust

AUFan
04-21-2010, 11:42 PM
Update: Still no water on dipstick and on a side note it took me a while to patch my exhaust. The dealer I bought my boat from took a few liberties that were unnoticed at the time of purchase. i.e. They admittedly already patched a few holes in the exhaust and swore to me they used fiberglass to do so. Wrong. They used epoxy, and a lot of it. It took me a while to sand the dang thing down (no power sander) so i could apply some fresh fiberglass to the exhaust. Next is to hook it all back up and remove the spark plugs so that I can try to see water coming out of the combustion chambers. As usual, this is light complaining. For a computer geek, I really enjoy getting up to my elbows in a motor. :D

AUFan
04-25-2010, 08:56 PM
Alrighty guys. Pulled the spark plugs out and turned the motor over. Let it run through three compression cycles. no water came out of the cylinder chambers. Still no water in the oil.

OK I am going to throw something totally crazy out there. The CTE of aluminum (engine heads) is 2x that of cast iron (engine block). I know that the gasket will make up most, if not all of the difference in expansion, but is it possible that a quick drop in temp could have created a gap?

JimN
04-25-2010, 09:03 PM
Alrighty guys. Pulled the spark plugs out and turned the motor over. Let it run through three compression cycles. no water came out of the cylinder chambers. Still no water in the oil.

OK I am going to throw something totally crazy out there. The CTE of aluminum (engine heads) is 2x that of cast iron (engine block). I know that the gasket will make up most, if not all of the difference in expansion, but is it possible that a quick drop in temp could have created a gap?

It's also possible that a head expanded because of high temperature and crushed the gasket. Is it possible that the motor needed head work and was disassembled improperly or the head bolts were re-used?

I would try to find out as much as I could about this boat from the original shop and owner. Uncertainty just wastes time, money and effort.

AUFan
04-26-2010, 09:42 AM
It's also possible that a head expanded because of high temperature and crushed the gasket. Is it possible that the motor needed head work and was disassembled improperly or the head bolts were re-used?

I would try to find out as much as I could about this boat from the original shop and owner. Uncertainty just wastes time, money and effort.

I would love to be able to do that, but unfortunately, I am going to continue to do this blind. I made the mistake that all Mastercraft dealers are the same. There were so many things that were wrong with this boat that, after two weeks of ownership, I tried to return it to the dealer. The best I got was $6K less for bringing them a "trade-in." I made Mastercraft aware of my experience and that was the end of the story.

My inclination is to take the boat out into a cove and get it up to speed and stress the motor. That will be able to tell me what's going on. If water gets in it. I will do a head gasket job and get the heads planed and tested. I think that I can officially eliminate the block! :toast:

billybostic
05-04-2010, 09:45 AM
AU fan,

Been following your post, I have a '96 Prostar LT1 and have done two oil changes. Still White dipstick and problem manifested itself yesterday. After running for about 20 mins, the engine bogged down and froze up. Bearings gave up I guess. So new engine block is what i'm facing. Hopefully that will be it.

AUFan
05-18-2010, 03:51 PM
Sorry for the long delay in updates, but this is the first weekend when I have been able to get the boat in the water. As far as I can tell, there is no longer any water in my oil. As long as it is running clean, I am going to let it run. I will wait until the offseason to do a top half rebuild of the motor. I personally agree with Jim and his gasket hypothesis.

I will keep my watersports to a minimum this year to keep as much strain off the motor as possible. The older I'm getting the more floatin' I like to do anyways! :cool:

I can't thank everyone enough for the help and advice. I have learned an immense amount of invaluable information about my boat.

:toast: :toast: :toast:

thatsmrmastercraft
05-18-2010, 04:01 PM
Sounds like the less is more plan. Just keep an eye on the oil level.

kkkeating
05-18-2010, 04:20 PM
Our 2001 X-9 had the same problem, water in the oil, almost two quarts worth. Changed the oil, then added Seafoam and ran it for 30 minutes to remove the gummy deposits, then did two more oil changes and the problem went away. Could never figure out if it was a problem with the engine or is someone intentionally poured water into the engine. I felt the Seafoad clean out the gummy deposits quite well. Now I check the oil after and before I take the boat out.

AUFan
05-18-2010, 04:21 PM
Sounds like the less is more plan. Just keep an eye on the oil level.

It's about all I have to go on right now. My only symptom of a problem just went away. The oil is clean, and I don't appear to be losing oil. No smoke is coming out of the exhaust. Oil pressures look good; The motor thermostats read normal temps, and the motor doesn't bog, knock, or stutter under load. I got nothin' right now. Here's to hoping it'll make it the whole season.

AUFan
05-18-2010, 04:22 PM
Our 2001 X-9 had the same problem, water in the oil, almost two quarts worth. Changed the oil, then added Seafoam and ran it for 30 minutes to remove the gummy deposits, then did two more oil changes and the problem went away. Could never figure out if it was a problem with the engine or is someone intentionally poured water into the engine. I felt the Seafoad clean out the gummy deposits quite well. Now I check the oil after and before I take the boat out.

That is EXACTLY what happened to mine.