Orbital Buffer

[LaRue]

been doing some research on TT concerning an orbital buffer. Gel coat on boat is in great shape, no oxidation only a few marks from fenders, and normal use that i would like to buff out. If boat is not suffering from oxidation and shine is excellent, what would you guys recommended for a medium priced buffer? Should i still go with an orbital and circular for the long haul? Not going to spend the $$ for a Makita BO6040 at this point. Is the Porter Cable still a good choice? thoughts?

[Thrall]

Don't waste your money on an orbital polisher. They're not good for anything except taking wax off.
Get a rotary polisher, any brand will do. For more than minor work, good quality buffing and polishing pads, like 3M makes are worth it.

[CantRepeat]

Don't waste your money on an orbital polisher. They're not good for anything except taking wax off.
Get a rotary polisher, any brand will do. For more than minor work, good quality buffing and polishing pads, like 3M makes are worth it.


Yup, I've never had any luck with those types of polishers.

[bcampbe7]

Random orbitals can be used for getting minor scratches and swirls out, but take a good bit of effort.

Look to Adam's Polishes for supplies. They have a great forum and many videos that will help you along the way.

www.adamspolishes.com


Having said that, you can buy a rotary for under $100 that will do everything you need to do. You do not need to spend the big bucks on a Makita or Flex. Your local Napa or Advanced Auto may even have a rotary buffer. They do around here and it is priced around $75. I would still buy the pads and supplies from Adams or other reputable place. Chemical Guys is another great source for supplies.

[Sodar]

Yup... Orbitals suck. :rolleyes:

If you are wetsanding and polishing the sand marks out, the orbital will take a lot of time to cut through them... if ever. Circulars are best left for the heavy stuff.

If you are doing light polishing or waxing, the orbital is irreplaceable. It works great for getting rid of any swirls left behind by the circular.

I personally went cheap on a $40Harbor Freight circular (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92623) they had on special.

My orbital is a Porter Cable 7424, since I rarely do any heavy polishing. I did have to wetsand some scratches and polish some heavy swirls out of my boat after it was shipped out from Illinois and the Porter Cable had no problems meeting the challenge.


P.S.- Don't let your friends or neighbors know you have one! I was going through pads like crazy, so now I buy pads in bulk and they pay me as they use it.

[bcampbe7]

Yup... Orbitals suck. :rolleyes:

If you are wetsanding and polishing the sand marks out, the orbital will take a lot of time to cut through them... if ever. Circulars are best left for the heavy stuff.

If you are doing light polishing or waxing, the orbital is irreplaceable. It works great for getting rid of any swirls left behind by the circular.

I personally went cheap on a $40Harbor Freight circular (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92623) they had on special.

My orbital is a Porter Cable 7424, since I rarely do any heavy polishing. I did have to wetsand some scratches and polish some heavy swirls out of my boat after it was shipped out from Illinois and the Porter Cable had no problems meeting the challenge.


P.S.- Don't let your friends or neighbors know you have one! I was going through pads like crazy, so now I buy pads in bulk and they pay me as they use it.

Same here... Great ROB to have!

[Sodar]

Just to pull my foot out of my mouth a bit, there are 3 types of polishers, right?

Orbitals (Cheesy Checker Auto Style)
Random Orbitals (PC, Cyclo, etc.)
Circulars (PC, Dewalt & Mikita)

[Forrest-X45]

I have tried a lot of other orbital buffers and I gave up on them because I didn't like using them. I finally broke down and purchased one from Griots Garage. http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/car+care/car+polishing/orbitals+and+car+polishing+tools/griot%27s+garage+random+orbital.do?search=basic&keyword=random+orbital+buffer&sortby=newArrivals&page=1

They make is stupid easy to use and you can't screw it up. It is impossible to burn your paint or gelcoat. They even send a DVD with how to steps.....
Yes - it is more expensive but you get what you pay for and all of Griot's products have a lifetime guarantee, if you burn up the motor send it back and they will send you brand new one. Not a reman one but a brand new one. Their customer service and support is beyond compare. I was willing to pay a little more to get the amazing service and local support. http://griotsgarage.com

On a side note - I am sure you all have seen internet threads with dream garages, well one of those pics is of Richard Griot's garage. It is truely a dream garage as I was able to tour it last year. Plus he lives on a private lake with a ski boat. I was there in the winter and didn't see his boat and didn't get a chance to ask him what it is. I was focused on getting new garage ideas....... ;)

[Forrest-X45]

I personally went cheap on a $40Harbor Freight circular (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92623) they had on special.



I went cheap too and purchased the Harbor Freight one and didn't like it or the terry cloth bonnets. Returned it and got my money back. Granted I am rookie detailer so I needed something super easy to use and the foam pads and Griot's buffer are so easy and smooth to use.

Just my $.02.

[Sodar]

I did modification to mine and ripped the pad that came with it off, then installed a flexible backing pad and use good pads.

Griots is cool, but you pay a premium for it to say "Griots"... probably the reason he has a dream garage! :D

Check out these places....

http://www.properautocare.com/

http://www.properboatcare.com/

[bcampbe7]

I did modification to mine and ripped the pad that came with it off, then installed a flexible backing pad and use good pads.
Griots is cool, but you pay a premium for it to say "Griots"... probably the reason he has a dream garage! :D

Check out these places....

http://www.properautocare.com/

http://www.properboatcare.com/

Same here... Are you just trying to copy everything that I do? :D

Those "cheap" rotary buffers will work fine for the regular Joe that wants to buff a scratch out here and there. A PC random orbital is the go to ROB for the home owner that wants something much better than an auto parts cheapy orbital.

[Sodar]

Beau is my hero.

I want a Cyclo....

[JimN]

I went cheap too and purchased the Harbor Freight one and didn't like it or the terry cloth bonnets. Returned it and got my money back. Granted I am rookie detailer so I needed something super easy to use and the foam pads and Griot's buffer are so easy and smooth to use.

Just my $.02.

Use the foam pads with fingers. They should work with the HF polisher.

[bturner2]

I have a Porter Cable that I swear by. Again right tool for the right job. You're not going to do any serious scratch removal with the Porter but that's what I use a sanding block and wet sand paper for.

Go with a Velcro flexible pad and buy the full series of pads that have varying degrees of aggressiveness. I got mine from here about 5 years ago.

http://www.pinnaclewax.com/portercablekit.html

Still have it and use it on a regular basis on the boat and all the cars/truck. Detailers have been using this system for many years with great results. Best part is that you don't have to be a skilled painter to use them. There are even videos on the site to show you how to use everything the right way.

[nmcjr]

I use a Porter Cable DA for yearly "one step" polishing and sealing (along with GelCoat Labs products from properboatcare.com). You will need an upgraded velcro backing plate and pad(s) for the PC. The PC is nice to have for the yearly work because its much easier to use and produces a nice finish.

For heavier work you will likely need a rotary polisher. I bought the Vector (~$75 IIRC) on proper boat care's recommendation. You also need to buy an updgraded backing plate for this too. Obviously not as good as a DeWalt, but as infrequently as I use it I'm sure it will last just fine, and it functions just as well.

I might suggest you try the "One-Step" first on the whole boat with a PC, and then if you see spots that need additional attention decide if you want to go back and spot treat those areas with the rotary and a fine cut polish. You may well be totally satisfied with the results at that point and not need to spend the extra time and money. Two years ago I went over my whole boat with a rotary and polish (wool pad), and in retrospect all I needed to do was the one-step with the PC.

properboatcare.com has a lot of info on what pads to use for what etc. and I have had great luck with the GelCoat labs products. You can give them a call too, and they're very helpful.

[Loffgren]

Flex Tool Orbital, used it many many times...love it

[mtajpa]

Yup... Orbitals suck. :rolleyes:

If you are wetsanding and polishing the sand marks out, the orbital will take a lot of time to cut through them... if ever. Circulars are best left for the heavy stuff.

If you are doing light polishing or waxing, the orbital is irreplaceable. It works great for getting rid of any swirls left behind by the circular.

I personally went cheap on a $40Harbor Freight circular (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92623) they had on special.

My orbital is a Porter Cable 7424, since I rarely do any heavy polishing. I did have to wetsand some scratches and polish some heavy swirls out of my boat after it was shipped out from Illinois and the Porter Cable had no problems meeting the challenge.




P.S.- Don't let your friends or neighbors know you have one! I was going through pads like crazy, so now I buy pads in bulk and they pay me as they use it.


I went with the cheapo from Harbor Freight and thats what I got the speed control does what ever it wants. Ya get what ya pay for.

[NoSubstitute]

I've used the Porter Cable 7424 for years on my cars and the boat. Griot's used to sell it as part of a kit for a couple years until they got someone to private label one for them. I agree with the other comments about it not working on bad scratches, but keep in mind that the pad makes a big difference on how aggressive you are trying to get.

[LaRue]

wow! Just got home from my son's school event and was somewhat blown away by the info and feedback. Thanks a bunch. For general waxing, i have always found satisfaction in putting wax on by hand and buffing out by hand. More work, but i rather enjoy the task. But i most likely should get something that can take out a few scuffs. Thanks again!!:D

[brucemac]

Same here... Are you just trying to copy everything that I do? :D

Those "cheap" rotary buffers will work fine for the regular Joe that wants to buff a scratch out here and there. A PC random orbital is the go to ROB for the home owner that wants something much better than an auto parts cheapy orbital.

hey, i bought a cheapo random oribtal from costco a couple years back. i have not used it once. :)

i don't think it has any variable speed control, it's just 3200 random orbits per minute.

in all honestly, i've been a little scared after reading some of the other threads. i've just been polishing and waxing by hand.

can i use this sucker to polish with without harm as long as i stay away from edges/corners, etc and keep her moving? i've got couple spots with some light swirl marks i have not been able to get out by hand, although i haven't tried anything but light polish with terry cloth, polish pad and microfiber.

i'd really like to give it a go before my shakedown cruise, but i don't want to hassle with it if it's not worth it or if i'm going to do more harm than good.

can't go wrong with polish by hand and a good wax, but i can't seem to get it perfect either.

thanks for the adams link, there were some good tips in there that i did not know about; i.e. being able to go right over your previous work and material with the next.

[MariStar-Man]

Hey LaRue

I have found this type to work pretty well. One has to be careful not to burn the paint, but when handled properly, and on low speeds, provides the user with a great shine.

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x203/DocHoliday1964/1999%20Maristar/Decals/DSC01459.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x203/DocHoliday1964/1999%20Maristar/Decals/DSC01455.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x203/DocHoliday1964/1999%20Maristar/Decals/DSC01460.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x203/DocHoliday1964/1999%20Maristar/Decals/DSC01461.jpg

[brucemac]

why are these boat pics dif than the one with the chopped bimini in the pro x tower thread?

did i miss something

:guitar:

/edit

nevermind. carry on. lol i was confusing boats, pictures and threads.

my bad

carry on

:cheers:

:D

[brucemac]

here's the shot i was confusing. my bad mm. nice detail.

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=34394&page=2

:p

[bcampbe7]

hey, i bought a cheapo random oribtal from costco a couple years back. i have not used it once. :)

i don't think it has any variable speed control, it's just 3200 random orbits per minute.

in all honestly, i've been a little scared after reading some of the other threads. i've just been polishing and waxing by hand.

can i use this sucker to polish with without harm as long as i stay away from edges/corners, etc and keep her moving? i've got couple spots with some light swirl marks i have not been able to get out by hand, although i haven't tried anything but light polish with terry cloth, polish pad and microfiber.

i'd really like to give it a go before my shakedown cruise, but i don't want to hassle with it if it's not worth it or if i'm going to do more harm than good.

can't go wrong with polish by hand and a good wax, but i can't seem to get it perfect either.

thanks for the adams link, there were some good tips in there that i did not know about; i.e. being able to go right over your previous work and material with the next.


If it is a random orbital buffer like the Porter Cable 7424 is and are using the proper pad and polish you will not burn the paint, edges or not. If it a true rotary buffer, you can most certainly burn the paint and quick.

[Tomsinamerica]

i have a Milwakee variable speed rotary polisher and it's awesome although heavy... it's quite a workout cleaning and polishing a boat. The nice thing about the variable speed is that there's less of a concern about burning etc.

Having said that, I think there's more to be said for the pads you use. I bought 3M pads and was amazed at the results when compared to crappy Craftsman things.

Anyway.. work beckons...
T

[bturner2]

I have an old Craftsman rotary that I use in the rare cases I can't use a series for wet sand paper and aggressive pads on the PC. The Craftsmans is loud and heavy but will get aggressive if that's what you're looking for. Most of us without professional training will be much better off with an orbital. It will save you tons of cash should you burn through your gel coat and need to go to the fiberglass shop. A trip there is never cheap.

[LaRue]

so if i understand this correctly...

1. orbital- for general polishing and waxing, taking out of swirl marks
(will this create a better shine than by hand?)

2. Circular- for removing scuffs, scratches etc.

[bcampbe7]

so if i understand this correctly...

1. Random orbital- for general polishing and waxing, taking out of swirl marks
(will this create a better shine than by hand?)

2. Rotary (Circular)- for removing scuffs, scratches etc.

My inputs are in red...

Random orbital spins but the rotation stops if enough pressure is applied. Prevents damage to the paint. Rotary stops spinning when you turn it off or pull power. Cannot be stopped by pressure and will burn thru clearcoat or paint in no time.

[MariStar-Man]

my bad

carry on

:cheers:

It takes a Big Man to admit it. But it might have been confusing because I was in the process of replacing the stickers, and the bimini top wasn't installed at that time...

I wish some other people in my life would admit things when they are wrong...
:o

LaRue here are some links to help you:

How to Master Rotary Buffer (http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=68)

Meguiars Site Marine RV care (http://marinerv.meguiars.com/faq/)

What's the difference between?
*Dual-Action polisher
*Orbital buffer
*Rotary buffer (http://www.meguiars.com/faq/index.cfm?faqCat=Working+with+a+machine+versus+wor king+with+your+hands&faqQuestionID=62&section=_62)

[CantRepeat]

I pick up a Vector VEC236 model for cheap. Does all the work for you.

[brucemac]

If it is a random orbital buffer like the Porter Cable 7424 is and are using the proper pad and polish you will not burn the paint, edges or not. If it a true rotary buffer, you can most certainly burn the paint and quick.

hey one more question on this bcampbe7. the sucker has a 10in foam pad on it and then it comes with these 10in elastic bonnets you slap on. there's a few terry cloth bonnets for application and then a few of these "synthetic lambs wool bonnets". the fake wool seems soft enough and all, but can i use these for wax and polish removal on my gel or are they intended more for auto?

[Thrall]

With a rotary polisher I wouldn't even touch an outside edge or corner on car paint (maybe very lightly on final polish if you have a heavy clearcoat. Factory paint is real bad, thin. Go lightly on OEM atuo finishes with a rotary.
Gelcoat on the other hand is much thicker than paint applications.
I wouldn't be afraid to take out minor scuffs with a med grit rubbing compound and a rotary on an outside corner, but make sure you're comfortable with operating it first. I for one have learned the hard way a couple times on cars. Haven't been able to mess up bad enough to burn thru gelcoat though. It's thick and tough.

[bcampbe7]

hey one more question on this bcampbe7. the sucker has a 10in foam pad on it and then it comes with these 10in elastic bonnets you slap on. there's a few terry cloth bonnets for application and then a few of these "synthetic lambs wool bonnets". the fake wool seems soft enough and all, but can i use these for wax and polish removal on my gel or are they intended more for auto?


The wool pad is actually a cutting pad.

Are you trying to take some scratches or oxidation out? In all honesty, those auto store random orbitals are really not good for much more than removing the wax. The auto stores around here sell a cheap random orbital as well as a cheap rotary. The random orbital they sell is nothing more than a wax remover.

If you want to remove small scratches and oxidation you should look for a Porter Cable 7424.

[brucemac]

no, i just want to polish and wax is all. i've got a few swirl marks up near the gunwal by the port side window that need some love, but other than that, i just want to make her sparkle.

[bcampbe7]

no, i just want to polish and wax is all. i've got a few swirl marks up near the gunwal by the port side window that need some love, but other than that, i just want to make her sparkle.

You should be fine with what you have. If I could make one recomendation with the tools you have is to use a micro fiber bonnet for the removal of wax. If you are polishing, work in 2' by 2' section and work the polish with the machine until it disappears. Then remove dust/residual polish with micro fiber cloth by hand. Or bring it by my house and I will show you how to do it. :)

[piper_chuck]

I wish this thread had been here before I spent all that time polishing and waxing my boat by hand a few weeks ago. :huh:

I completely forgot about the PC random orbit sander I've got somewhere in my garage. I've even got a variety of buffing pads for it. I remember using it on past boats and it worked quite well. Right now it, along with most of the rest of my tools, is packed away in a box until we move from this dreadful rental to the house we're building. Guess I'll get it out later in the season...

[JimN]

I wish this thread had been here before I spent all that time polishing and waxing my boat by hand a few weeks ago. :huh:

I completely forgot about the PC random orbit sander I've got somewhere in my garage. I've even got a variety of buffing pads for it. I remember using it on past boats and it worked quite well. Right now it, along with most of the rest of my tools, is packed away in a box until we move from this dreadful rental to the house we're building. Guess I'll get it out later in the season...

"Wax on, wax off." Mr Miyagi

[piper_chuck]

"Wax on, wax off." Mr Miyagi
I had exactly that thought more than once that day. :D

[kkkeating]

I’d recommend the Porter Cable Dual Action 7424 orbital polisher; it’ll remove swirls and scratches as well as fine polishing. You can purchase various pads and abrasive compounds/waxes from cutting to finessing depending what you want to accomplish. I use Lake Country CCS pads and they work great. The Autogeek website has very good descriptions of these products and how to use them.


http://www.autogeek.net/bupo.html

http://www.autogeek.net/lake-country-ccs-pack1.html

[MattsCraft]

Just got this from Boattest.com, looks like a good product and price.

http://shurhold.com/marine/dual-action-polisher

[thatsmrmastercraft]

Just got this from Boattest.com, looks like a good product and price.

http://shurhold.com/marine/dual-action-polisher

The 20' cord is a great feature. Don't have to be dealing with the cord ends right next to the boat.

[s_worty]

I have an '04 X10. Reading this thread it looks like purchasing the Porter Cable 7424XP is the way to go to get my hull looking like new. It has a few spots of oxidation.

This is what I am thinking:
1. Buy Porter Cable 7424XP (maybe part of a kit, maybe not)
2. Use Coarse Green (light oxidation) or Orange (scratch & defect removal) pad on oxidation spots with something like 3M Marine Restorer and Wax
3. Use a Red or Gold pad to apply a wax (any suggestions?)
4. Use Microfiber cloth to remove final wax

It looks like there is no way to damage your boat with the 7424XP, does that include the large decals on the side? Any help would be appreciated thanks!

[JimN]

I have an '04 X10. Reading this thread it looks like purchasing the Porter Cable 7424XP is the way to go to get my hull looking like new. It has a few spots of oxidation.

This is what I am thinking:
1. Buy Porter Cable 7424XP (maybe part of a kit, maybe not)
2. Use Coarse Green (light oxidation) or Orange (scratch & defect removal) pad on oxidation spots with something like 3M Marine Restorer and Wax
3. Use a Red or Gold pad to apply a wax (any suggestions?)
4. Use Microfiber cloth to remove final wax

It looks like there is no way to damage your boat with the 7424XP, does that include the large decals on the side? Any help would be appreciated thanks!

The easiest way to cause a problem is by thinking that it can't happen. Also, I wouldn't use a coarse pad unless you have just finished a repair. You're trying to restore the shine, not create it on a rough surface. Also, don't use a high speed. Polishing is done through friction and if it's excessive, you'll burn through the gel coat, especially on the breaks and edges.

The brand of polisher is far less important than the techniques used. If you have a friend with a boat and they never polish it, practice on that.

[MariStar-Man]

I have an '04 X10. Reading this thread it looks like purchasing the Porter Cable 7424XP is the way to go to get my hull looking like new. It has a few spots of oxidation.

This is what I am thinking:
1. Buy Porter Cable 7424XP (maybe part of a kit, maybe not)
2. Use Coarse Green (light oxidation) or Orange (scratch & defect removal) pad on oxidation spots with something like 3M Marine Restorer and Wax
3. Use a Red or Gold pad to apply a wax (any suggestions?)
4. Use Microfiber cloth to remove final wax

It looks like there is no way to damage your boat with the 7424XP, does that include the large decals on the side? Any help would be appreciated thanks!

Do you have pictures of the oxidation and a Far-Away shot?

[Kyle]

This is what I used.

Mine is electric and it is made by Snap On.

They are about $300.00 for the polisher.

you can also get polishing pads or cutting pads on their web site.

[s_worty]

I'll get some pics and get them posted thanks!