Constant Power to Bilge Pumps with Perko Switch

[rgardjr1]

I noticed something today when I was messing around in my boat. I've got a dual battery setup with a Perko Off, 1, 2, Both switch. In the Off position I have no power to my bilge pumps. I have been leaving the switch in the Off position to recharge the batteries while floating in my slip-no boat lift. I think I would like to change this. Do the bilge pumps run off a relay like the ballast pumps? Is it as simple running constant power to the switch on the dash? My boat is a 2006 Maristar 200.
Thanks-
Rick

[CruisinGA]

Why not just leave one battery on for the bilge pumps? - This is what I do.

If you have chargers hooked up, then there's not much to worry about regarding draining a battery.

[TayMC190]

I would suggest leaving a battery on. You can also run the bilge direct. I suggest leaving a battery on. You have a float switch that kicks on when it detects enough water. Also if the switch sticks it could create a problem. Thankfully it won't kill your battery if you catch it within a day or so but it will probably burn the pump up. I let my boat set in the lake for 2 months last winter while I refurbished the trailer and I didn't acquire enough water to even kick on the bilge. So honestly leaving one battery on should hurt anything. I don't leave mine unattended in the water anymore so I don't have to worry about it. Also you could have a set in pump and switch that you run from you dock for that purpose. when you park it over night just open you hatch and set it in with a hose running out into the water.. Just suggestions but don't feel you have a major problem.

[rgardjr1]

Leaving a battery on sounds reasonable and will save me some work to boot. I guess I was just surprised that I had been turning off the bilge pumps inadvertently all last summer. I started looking at the breakers and switches after I posted and I certainly was not looking forward to trying to figure out how the bilges are wired.

[TayMC190]

Also might want to run the constant wire for your stereo head unit to a battery, it sucks losing all the memory when you kill the switches...

[rgardjr1]

Also might want to run the constant wire for your stereo head unit to a battery, it sucks losing all the memory when you kill the switches...

That's on the list. Easy enough that I shouldn't have to ask for help.

[TallRedRider]

I have brought this up before. I know of at least one other manufacturer that wires the bilge pump right to the battery. In theory, the bilge pump will not draw anything unless it gets kicked on somehow.

I think it is poor design on MC's part. I brought it up when a well known member here had his boat sink at the dock during a heavy rainstorm. There were likely waves involved too, so a functioning bilge pump may not have helped. But I can guarantee that once there was an extra 1500 pounds of rain water in the boat, it didn't stand a chance against the waves.

So I wired one of my bilge pumps right to the battery. The bilge pumps that came on my X-45 have 2 power leads, one for the switch and one for the float switch. I still have perfect control on the switch and the automatic bilge will come on when the perko switch is off.

Sorry about the long post, but I feel pretty strong about this, and it still surprises me that others don't feel the same way.

Or just leave the switch on. In theory, the electrical draw is so small it should take quite a while to drain a battery. the problem being that boats are famous for something accidentally being left on. Many guys have the batteries on for very long times without problems, but some boats just seem to have an invisible gremlin somewhere that sucks more power than it should, and tracking it down can be very hard.

[rgardjr1]

So I wired one of my bilge pumps right to the battery. The bilge pumps that came on my X-45 have 2 power leads, one for the switch and one for the float switch. I still have perfect control on the switch and the automatic bilge will come on when the perko switch is off.

When you wired yours did you just run a wire from the battery to the float power lead on the pump? I never thought about doing it that way-I was going to run power to the switch on the dash and/or to the relay (if there was one involved). I'll take a look tomorrow at my bilge pump and see what's involved.
Thanks-
Rick

[Shaun315]

Don't the newer boats with the blue seas dual battery setup have the bilge and radio memory on the 24-hour always on circuits?

[rgardjr1]

Don't the newer boats with the blue seas dual battery setup have the bilge and radio memory on the 24-hour always on circuits?

I think they should. When I figured out that my bilge pumps didn't have constant power run to them I was remembering seeing venetrex's post about relocating the batteries to the rear lockers and he was using blue seas setup like the new boats receive:

http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=663155&postcount=3

[Shaun315]

I think they should. When I figured out that my bilge pumps didn't have constant power run to them I was remembering seeing venetrex's post about relocating the batteries to the rear lockers and he was using blue seas setup like the new boats receive:

http://mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showpost.php?p=663155&postcount=3

From the schematic venetrex posted they do (at least if wired correctly to the switch), but the 24-hour circuits are thermal fuses, which means they can only be reset once tripped. As mentioned above some boats do have a leakage path somewhere that drains the batteries when the switch is off (leaving only the 24hour circuits on). I'm going to try to do a dual battery install, but replace the thermal fuses with the rocker type, so I can cut the 24hour circuits for the bilge when the boat is out of the water.

Rick, shoot me a PM if you want help chasing wires sometime, I bet I live about 10 minutes from you...

[TayMC190]

Sadly, the reason most boats have sank isn't becuase of a failed bilge. They were full ballast during storms, crack in hull and didn't know it, didn't put the plug in, etc. Like I said earlier, I left my boat in at stall floating for 2 months with zero power, and when I came to check it I'd say it had about an inch of water in the boat, not even close to even kicking the bilge on. Honestly I don't think mastercraft had poor design behind it, I assume they think the same as me, its not a problem. The things that have caused boats to actually sink are issues the bilge couldn't have solved. They are very few instances where the bilge has probably failed but I know of none and haven't heard of any.

Just do as I did, I ran the automatic positive to battery 1(primary battery for all issues) and left the positive to the manual switch active on the dash. Just make sure your girlfriend isn't standing next to the boat when your washing it out... it'll get her and piss her off.

[TallRedRider]

When you wired yours did you just run a wire from the battery to the float power lead on the pump? I never thought about doing it that way-I was going to run power to the switch on the dash and/or to the relay (if there was one involved). I'll take a look tomorrow at my bilge pump and see what's involved.
Thanks-
Rick

IIRC, there are 3 wires on the Rule 750 GPH pumps. They are the ground, switch and automatic. I ran the automatic straight to the battery. I hook up a charger periodically to the batteries during the winter, and noticed that they seemed to be low this last time. I don't know if maybe the pump is doing some drain on the system (I don't think so) but that might be a downside. My batteries are due to be replaced anyway, as they are the original with the 2006 model boat I have.

[TallRedRider]

Sadly, the reason most boats have sank isn't becuase of a failed bilge. They were full ballast during storms, crack in hull and didn't know it, didn't put the plug in, etc.

The storm I was referring to was 10 inches of rain over a day or so. 10 inches of water in a smaller boat is going to be tough. I think that one of our bilge pumps could easily pump out 10 inches of water over several hours. Like I said, there were waves involved too, but this boat stood no chance of withstanding the waves once it had that much water in it. Might not have made any difference, but I am sure it did not have a chance without a bilge pump. The owner was out of town, IIRC.

If you don't think it was a poor design, then why did you swap your wiring?

[Ole Miss Rebels]

i have a 2008 xstar. i have two (2) blue-top optima batteries. if i turn the battery switch to off the batteries run down really low over the course of a couple of weeks. however, if i take the cables off of the batteries then the batteries stay charged almost fully. that tells me that something is constantly drawing the batteries down. i have always heard that the memory for the radio stays powered up and that the two bilge pupms stay powered up. i do know that when the battery switch is in the "off" position that i still have three LED lights on the switch panel that stay lit up. some juice is going somewhere even if it is just to light up those three little bulbs. again, i was told by my dealer, however, that teh radio memory and the two bilge pumps stay "hot". i would like to know the facts regarding this scenario too. where is MYMC, Jim at BAWS or Erik at Chicago MC?

[rgardjr1]

Rick, shoot me a PM if you want help chasing wires sometime, I bet I live about 10 minutes from you...

I really appreciate the offer. I'll let you know if I get going and need a hand.

[TallRedRider]

i have a 2008 xstar. i have two (2) blue-top optima batteries. if i turn the battery switch to off the batteries run down really low over the course of a couple of weeks. however, if i take the cables off of the batteries then the batteries stay charged almost fully. that tells me that something is constantly drawing the batteries down. i have always heard that the memory for the radio stays powered up and that the two bilge pupms stay powered up. i do know that when the battery switch is in the "off" position that i still have three LED lights on the switch panel that stay lit up. some juice is going somewhere even if it is just to light up those three little bulbs. again, i was told by my dealer, however, that teh radio memory and the two bilge pumps stay "hot". i would like to know the facts regarding this scenario too. where is MYMC, Jim at BAWS or Erik at Chicago MC?

On my 2006, the ballast pumps are wired straight to the batteries also. But they should not be drawing any power either when off.

I think there is some battery draw in the isolator, because a small light bulb is on there, even when the perko switch is off sometimes.

[TayMC190]

The storm I was referring to was 10 inches of rain over a day or so. 10 inches of water in a smaller boat is going to be tough. I think that one of our bilge pumps could easily pump out 10 inches of water over several hours. Like I said, there were waves involved too, but this boat stood no chance of withstanding the waves once it had that much water in it. Might not have made any difference, but I am sure it did not have a chance without a bilge pump. The owner was out of town, IIRC.

If you don't think it was a poor design, then why did you swap your wiring?

Not because of design but when I'm at a party island I kill my batteries. Low and behold some 19 yr old in daddys boat sends rollers over the back of 3 boats. Mine included and as a safety I wired it seperately. I cover my boat when I leave it setting over night. Just common sense. In this cases incase a seal failed... Whammy I got fire to the bilge to maintain till morning. Leaving the boat floating and leaving town isn't smart. IMO I checked mine everyday I guess cause I'm anal about something going wrong. I have bad luck.

[Shaun315]

i have a 2008 xstar. i have two (2) blue-top optima batteries. if i turn the battery switch to off the batteries run down really low over the course of a couple of weeks. however, if i take the cables off of the batteries then the batteries stay charged almost fully. that tells me that something is constantly drawing the batteries down. i have always heard that the memory for the radio stays powered up and that the two bilge pupms stay powered up. i do know that when the battery switch is in the "off" position that i still have three LED lights on the switch panel that stay lit up. some juice is going somewhere even if it is just to light up those three little bulbs. again, i was told by my dealer, however, that teh radio memory and the two bilge pumps stay "hot". i would like to know the facts regarding this scenario too. where is MYMC, Jim at BAWS or Erik at Chicago MC?

From the schematic on Blue Seas website, the 24hour circuits for bilge and radio do not run through the main ON/OFF switch. If you really want control on those 24hour circuits, replace the thermal fuse with a rocker type (Blue Seas p/n 7403 for the 15A) you can turn off. I haven't ordered my switch panel or replacement breakers yet, but from the pics I've seen the panel looks modular and this should be possible. I'll post pics as soon as I modify a switch panel.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_m9Xf16c4ewI/S4g0lUrWGsI/AAAAAAAABos/D8GYwW2uQYo/switch%20panel.JPG

[bobx1]

My X1 (2007) has the radio and bilge wired direct to the battery. Not sure if the dealer took it upon himself to prep the boat that way or not.

FWIW....If the auto-float switch on the bilge gets stuck, be prepared for the low voltage warning alarm to activate when you go to crank it up again (mine stuck overnight and the engine started fine the next morning but an audible alarm was going off and I had no idea what was wrong - figured it out the hard way).