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liquidforceb069
03-09-2010, 12:39 PM
Wheres a good place to buy a water pump for a 89 prostar 190??

coz
03-09-2010, 12:59 PM
Wheres a good place to buy a water pump for a 89 prostar 190??

http://www.skidim.com/products.asp?dept=1094

TMCNo1
03-09-2010, 01:10 PM
Wheres a good place to buy a water pump for a 89 prostar 190??
Engine water circulating pump like this, http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RA057004 or the raw water pump like Coz posted???

liquidforceb069
03-09-2010, 01:32 PM
It actually looks more like it's coming out of the pump crank... Like there's thoughs four screws and ones missing...

bigmac
03-09-2010, 01:46 PM
Communication issue here, maybe. Not sure what a "pump crank" is. Maybe you mean the pump that's attached to the crankshaft pully at the bottom of the engine?

Sounds like you're raw water pump cover plate is missing a bolt and is leaking. Maybe all you need is a new gasket and a replacement brass bolt (http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=68-5005). OTOH, if it's leaking from behind the raw water pump, it might be the pump seal and likely the whole pump needs to be either rebuilt or replaced.

As to the gasket, I'd be inclined to just replace the impeller (http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RP061018). New gasket is included.

Does this look like the offending component ? (may be painted black)

http://www.skidim.com/images/68-5013.jpg




If so, it's missing one of the bolts and you need one of these? (I'd be inclined to use brass, not steel)

http://www.skidim.com/images/68-5005.jpg

liquidforceb069
03-11-2010, 12:15 PM
Communication issue here, maybe. Not sure what a "pump crank" is. Maybe you mean the pump that's attached to the crankshaft pully at the bottom of the engine?

Sounds like you're raw water pump cover plate is missing a bolt and is leaking. Maybe all you need is a new gasket and a replacement brass bolt (http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=68-5005). OTOH, if it's leaking from behind the raw water pump, it might be the pump seal and likely the whole pump needs to be either rebuilt or replaced.

As to the gasket, I'd be inclined to just replace the impeller (http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RP061018). New gasket is included.

Does this look like the offending component ? (may be painted black)

http://www.skidim.com/images/68-5013.jpg




If so, it's missing one of the bolts and you need one of these? (I'd be inclined to use brass, not steel)

http://www.skidim.com/images/68-5005.jpg


this link.. the top part that says pump crank

http://www.skidim.com/products.asp?dept=1094

heres my photos..
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c153/liquidforceb069/290.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c153/liquidforceb069/289edited.jpg


so could that whole thing be bad or just the seal and impellar?

mayo93prostar
03-11-2010, 12:30 PM
lf069, the impeller will not cause the leak. the leak is either from the front white gasket or the shaft seal on the rear of the pump. big difference in price to fix. you need to look under the pump when it leaks and see if it is coming from the front or the rear. if front, get a new gasket and screw from skidim. less than $5. If coming from rear, you need to get whole new pump from skidim at a price of over $100. some people will suggest you just replace the rear seal but this is more work and requires a press to install the bearing. surest answer is to get a whole new pump and it comes with new impeller, gasket, and all 4 screws! Really easy to replace.

JJMorris3
03-11-2010, 01:14 PM
I just went through this. I thought I needed just an impeller. Replaced it and read more on the forum. These TT guys know their stuff! Turns out I had a worn pump. I took the replace the pump strategy because replacing the bearings took special tools, time, and talent.

You can use skidim as suggested. I called Jack at JA Chamberlain (www.marineexhaustmanifolds.com). The Johnson pump you need is a Johnson Pump, F6B9 and i got mine from him for $159 plus 11 bucks shipping. I installed it myself. It was a piece of cake.

To share a little more, once my pump was replaced my engine started running VERY cool. After more consulting from TT I chedked my thermostat and sure enough it was corroded and stuck open. I again called Jack, got a 15 dollar replacement thermostat, installed it myself, and was good go to. Depending on your motor, you will have a 143 degree or 160 degree thermostat. There is debate over which is best, but I went with the oem recommended 143 and with my pump and new thermo, my engine runs very close to that temp all the time now.

Good luck to you. Good news is this is a easy repair. Costs a few bucks, but better to fix it than to have your raw water pump fail completely and then have an overheat problem that costs more down the road - and worse of all could end up in lost lake time!

John

pkskier
03-11-2010, 01:59 PM
I have to agree, if the pump is leaking from the back, replace it. I replaced mine and it is easier and just a little more expensive.

TMCNo1
03-11-2010, 02:02 PM
this link.. the top part that says pump crank

http://www.skidim.com/products.asp?dept=1094

heres my photos..
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c153/liquidforceb069/290.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c153/liquidforceb069/289edited.jpg


so could that whole thing be bad or just the seal and impellar?


How are we to know, unless YOU put the 4th screw in it after replacing the gasket and or impeller, run the engine and see if it still leaks! We can't do it for you.

AZDave
03-11-2010, 02:10 PM
One last tip, I see that the anti-vibration bracket shows some rust. I also would not be surprised if the bushing is worn. I suggest that when you replace the pump, get a new bushing in there. You can make one out of heater hose material. Cheap. Make sure there is a snug fit, and you will be rewarded with a little less vibration from the Johnson pump.

bigmac
03-11-2010, 02:29 PM
The place to start is by putting the 4th bolt in there, of course. Be very careful with that - the pump body is brass and a steel bolt can strip that hole in a heartbeat. I strongly recommend the brass bolts referenced above. I see that one of the bolts is already steel.

While you're there, I'd recommend replacing the gasket under that cover. And given your lack of familiarity with the raw water cooling system, I presume you've never changed the impeller, so while you're changing the gasket, I'd change the impeller too.

If it still leaks after fixing the cover, then I'd recommend replacing the whole pump.

liquidforceb069
03-12-2010, 01:35 PM
K... Thanks guys you were a lot of help! Ill start there and hopefully that will solve the problem... If not im sure ill be getting a new pump and go from there..

Thanks again...

coz
03-12-2010, 02:04 PM
If coming from rear, you need to get whole new pump from skidim

Not so, mine was leaking from the rear seal and skidim has it for $18, that's alot less than a whole new pump and easy to replace. http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=68-5004

Thrall
03-12-2010, 03:04 PM
Not so, mine was leaking from the rear seal and skidim has it for $18, that's alot less than a whole new pump and easy to replace. http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=68-5004

Same here on my '96. New seal cured the leak. About a 2-3 beer job.

AussieMC
03-12-2010, 03:11 PM
I had a small leak coming from the rear of my pump, cost of a new pump and shipping to Aust was 5 times more than pulling pump apart, sourcing new bearings and seal, repaint and reinstall, about 3hrs labour plus chasing parts. If you have or now someone with any mechanical knowledge, it is quite easy.

macattack
03-21-2010, 07:11 PM
My 2005 PS197 water pump is also dripping from the rear pump area...since a new water pump is $165 vs a rear seal for $18, can someone who has replaced the rear seal provide some insight on exactly how to change it and any special tools required...tks, mac

hkallestad
03-22-2010, 04:51 PM
I've managed to replace the rear seal without taking the pump apart, not easy but possible, you need to be careful not to scratch the shaft this way. The best way would be to push the shaft out so you can get to the seal much easier. If you do that I would replace the bearings as well, you'll get quality bearings cheap, very common size.

macattack
03-22-2010, 11:03 PM
Any special tools needed to replace the seal? tks, mac

erkoehler
03-22-2010, 11:24 PM
The whole unit is usually replaced because at dealer labor rates you are better off getting a new pump than paying the labor to replace the seal.

CantRepeat
03-23-2010, 06:59 AM
$18 vs $165. I'm sure you could find a local machine shop that would press out the seal and bearing for less then $50 bucks.

erkoehler
03-23-2010, 08:37 AM
$18 vs $165. I'm sure you could find a local machine shop that would press out the seal and bearing for less then $50 bucks.

$50 to press in the seal, $10 in fuel each way to get to the machine shop, new impellar $40, plus labor/time for all that driving and removing and reinstalling the part.

So, $110 plus all the labor and you still have a used pump.....I'd rather spend a bit more and know that everything is brand new.

hkallestad
03-23-2010, 09:26 AM
Any special tools needed to replace the seal? tks, mac
To replace the seal without pressing the shaft out you need a thin plier or something, be aware that it's very easy to scrathc the shaft this way. If you press the shaft out, a workshop press is very handy, but a hammer would do as well I guess;-)

Rodney
03-23-2010, 01:13 PM
I am in the processing of replacing the entire pump. I removed the 3 machine screws that bolt to the flywheel and I cannot break the pump loose? Anybody else had this problem? if so, any ideas how to remove the pump?

JLeuck64
03-23-2010, 01:36 PM
You will need a BFH to remove that pump!

(lol... that stands for Big F ing Hammer)

Seriously, just give it a little tap tap and it should fall right off...

Rodney
03-23-2010, 01:37 PM
i tried that, i beat on it with a hammar. I dont want to knock the fly wheel out of alignment either. If I were to use a torch to heat it up to break the rust free, should I heat the fly wheel or the water pump base? its seized pretty good.

Kyle
03-23-2010, 08:59 PM
First of all the fly wheel is in the bell housing where the starter turns the engine over. The pump you are looking at has 3 hex hed or allen bolts that bolt through the crank shaft pulley. All three bolts are in the Harmonic balancer wich is pressed on to the crank shaft and has a really big bolt. You will not bend the pulley or the balancer or crank. If you look at the L shaped bracket that is bolted to your right with 2 bolts that are bolting the L shaped bracked on verticaly they are 5/8 bolts.

Follow the L shaped bracket to under the pump where there is another bolt that tightens the bracket to the pump. The bolt comes up into the bottom of the pump from the bilge side. If you cant get it loose take the 2 5/8 bolts out and remove the hoses.

IF YOU HAVE REMOVED THE 3 BOLTS THAT ARE CONNECTING THE PUMP TO THE CHROME PULLEY AND THE BOLT UNDER THE PUMP AND THE 2 5/8 BOLTS THAT HOLD ON THE L SHAPED BRACKET ALONG WITH THE 2 HOSES YOU CAN YANK THE HELL OUT OF IT. YOU WILL NOT HURT ANYTHING.

Dont use heat but get a hammer and tap on it. You probably did not have all of the bolts taken out of it.

Rodney
03-23-2010, 09:12 PM
thanks Kyle. I got it out tonight. I did have all the bolts removed. The pump sits recessed into the pulley and overtime, water must have sat in there, rusted, and eventually created a bond between the pump and pulley. I did have to use a bit of heat but it came out some prying. I took the pulley out as well and got it nice and cleaned up before reinstalling.

Thanks!

Kyle
03-23-2010, 09:16 PM
Oh

Buy a new pump.....

macattack
03-29-2010, 06:19 PM
I guess I'm a little slow on the pump removal steps...need pictures:)!

Here's a pic of my water pump. Looking at the front of the engine I removed the left bolt (#1) holding the L bracket. Not sure you need to remove the other bolt (#2) that holds the right side of the L bracket to the bottom of the pump if the pump just slides off the shaft? Or does the bottom bolt (#2) tighten against the shaft?

If I do not remove the bottom bolt (#2), should the pump slide off the shaft or do you have to remove that bolt and/or the 3 hex bolts that attach the pump to the pulley?

In the pic, I removed the left bracket bolt and pushed the left side of the bracket up towards the vertical to see if there were any other bolts except the one holding the bracket to the bottom of the pump. I gave the pump a tug, but nothing moved. Wanted to ask the all the questions above before I yanked any harder...tks, mac

Sodar
03-29-2010, 06:39 PM
You need to remove the 3 bolts on the crank pulley.

macattack
04-21-2010, 02:53 PM
Just FYI: I found this on the Indmar site under FAQ (http://www.indmar.com/About/ContactIndmar/faq.html) Apparently, a couple drips per 5-10 seconds is OK.

"7.4 There is a small amount of water dripping from the water-circulating pump on the front of my engine. Is this normal?

Yes, it is not unusual for a small amount of water to drip from the weep hole on the underside of the water-circulating pump. The seal in this pump is cooled and lubricated with water so a small amount of water leaking from the pump is possible. Leak rates of a drop of two every 5-10 seconds is not excessive. Leak rates higher than that or a steady stream of water indicated that the seal has been damaged and the pump should be replaced with a new or remanufactured marine circulating pump.

If you run your boat in extremely shallow water or run it aground, it is possible to draw sand or other debris into the engine, which could damage the circulating pump as well as the seawater pump."

87PS190
09-23-2010, 05:52 PM
I found this thread on replacing the rear seal on a Johnson pump http://www.mastercraftboats.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=8020
There is a pretty good manual there also on this project too: http://www.mastercraftboats.com/teamtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=8512&d=1143811308

The shaft side of my seal was completely worn down and there was a brass ring that pressed down into the seal. I was able to pop the ring and the seal out pretty easily. Now I'm not sure if the ring or washer isn't also worn.
Can someone tell me what you think here and is there also supposed to be a brass flat washer that goes onto the shaft before slipping the impeller in or is that what this ring is...only worn?

87PS190
09-23-2010, 06:25 PM
Well here is a schematic of the F6B-9 pump if anyone wants it.
doesn't seem to have the metal or brass ring that mine did???

Cloaked
09-23-2010, 09:01 PM
On the Sherwood pump, yes, there is a brass plate (thrust washer). Call skidim.com tomorrow and ask them precisely what you need. That's the nice thing about those fine folks. They will hook you up.

thatsmrmastercraft
09-23-2010, 10:03 PM
On the Sherwood pump, yes, there is a brass plate (thrust washer). Call skidim.com tomorrow and ask them precisely what you need. That's the nice thing about those fine folks. They will hook you up.

Your friendly local Mastercraft dealer should have that on hand as well.

87PS190
09-24-2010, 06:26 AM
This is a Johnson pump though!

Cloaked
09-24-2010, 07:08 AM
This is a Johnson pump though!
Indeed. For an expert answer, call the man at Skidim, is all I was saying... Or not.

Jaysonsmith
11-24-2010, 06:57 AM
Is this the right part for a '98 Prostar 205 LT1?

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=68-5020

If so, does anyone have instruction on replacing it? My main concern is alignment in the belt series.

Should I consider replacing the hoses? They are originals.
Anything else? Thermostats, etc. I should think about replacing at this time?
Any other advice. I have read this thread and it has been very helpful.

bkehrer
06-11-2013, 10:33 PM
My raw water pump is leaking. I have removed the three screws and the bracket, plus the screw on top of the housing the impeller. I still cannot get the pump off. Suggestions? Can you use a puller on it?

I have it soaking in wd40 adn PB blaster. I welcome suggestions.
Thanks.

billr
06-11-2013, 11:26 PM
Tap it with a hammer!

CantRepeat
06-12-2013, 08:12 AM
Does anyone sell a pre-packaged rebuild kit for either of the pumps?

jjbulla
07-08-2013, 09:10 AM
I just bought a 1990 prostar 190 that has a leak coming from the back of the pump. From what I've read on this thread it looks like I need to just go ahead and replace the pump. Does anyone know where I can get a pump for less than $200 now? I guess it's been a few years since this thread was active and it seems prices have nearly doubled. The cheapest I've been able to find is $206. Also, any tips or advice for the actual replacement will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

etduc
07-08-2013, 09:30 AM
For repair parts Discount Inboard Marine. (It is rebuildable.)
For Johnson raw water pump, Ebasicpower. ($179.00)

Cloaked
07-08-2013, 09:34 AM
I just bought a 1990 prostar 190 that has a leak coming from the back of the pump. From what I've read on this thread it looks like I need to just go ahead and replace the pump. Does anyone know where I can get a pump for less than $200 now? I guess it's been a few years since this thread was active and it seems prices have nearly doubled. The cheapest I've been able to find is $206. Also, any tips or advice for the actual replacement will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!Are you referring to the raw water pump or the recirculating water pump?

.

jjbulla
07-08-2013, 09:37 AM
The raw water pump.

Cloaked
07-08-2013, 09:44 AM
engine - year / make.....

Or better yet. look here ==> www.skidim.com (http://www.skidim.com)

They have parts for a rebuild. Typically a seal. Don't forget the thrust washer. If you need assistance, give them a call. Great customer service.

Also replace the impeller while you're there....

catamount
07-08-2013, 09:47 AM
I just bought a 1990 prostar 190 that has a leak coming from the back of the pump. From what I've read on this thread it looks like I need to just go ahead and replace the pump. Does anyone know where I can get a pump for less than $200 now? I guess it's been a few years since this thread was active and it seems prices have nearly doubled. The cheapest I've been able to find is $206. Also, any tips or advice for the actual replacement will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Do you have a socket and a dental pick? Would you like to save $175? If so, just replace the seal!

Mine was leaking a drop every 2 seconds. Now it doesn't leak at all.

I bought this seal. It lives directly behind the impeller. You will need to remove the pump to make it easier to work on but it's quite a simple task. I am always amused/confused when people suggest throwing away the entire pump when it is usually this wear item that just needs to be replaced.

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=68-5004

Did you see this thread?

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=2369&highlight=seal


As mentioned in this thread, the rubber bushing inside the bottom of the pump can also wear out, causing additional vibration and contributing to seal failure. I took up the slack but adding a piece of shrink tube to it. Now it's as good as new.

http://i.imgur.com/LsJSIob.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Gijtvg7.jpg

Cloaked
07-08-2013, 09:50 AM
Your 1990 engine may have a different pump that what Cat-daddy posted. And also mark the pump's orientation before you take it off. It does go back on in a certain orientation.

.

jjbulla
07-08-2013, 09:53 AM
It's a 1990 Ford 351. I just had the boat looked at by a mc dealer in the area. He said the impeller was good, but he somehow missed this leak... I'm trying to put a picture up, but it might be a few minutes. Replacing the seal requires special tools right?

Cloaked
07-08-2013, 09:54 AM
It's a 1990 Ford 351. I just had the boat looked at by a mc dealer in the area. He said the impeller was good, but he somehow missed this leak... I'm trying to put a picture up, but it might be a few minutes. Replacing the seal requires special tools right?
Attachments are not working right now.

You can do the job with a socket and a pick. No special tools of which I am aware.

You made me laugh about the MC dealer and missing the leak...... :D

.

jjbulla
07-08-2013, 10:00 AM
I mean come on they are professionals right? But what is the appeal to replacing the entire pump vs. just the seal? Also, how important is the replacement. In other words, if I don't get it replaced for two weeks and I'm running the boat a couple hours a day is that bad?

catamount
07-08-2013, 10:20 AM
I ran the boat all summer with a constant drip-drip-drip. The only problem is that you will slowly fill your bilge with drops of water (it takes a lot of "drops" to add up to anything meaningful though). Eventually it may harm the bearing behind it.

Anyway, you need the $18 seal, a dental pick ($4.00 at the hardware store) and a deep socket to press the new seal in with. These pumps are well made, do not throw them out because a piece of rubber is tired.

jjbulla
07-08-2013, 10:36 AM
My only concern is that my pump is a drip drip type leak. It's a pretty significant leak. I'd say it's more than a drop per second. Could that still be just a bad seal?

catamount
07-08-2013, 11:09 AM
My only concern is that my pump is a drip drip type leak. It's a pretty significant leak. I'd say it's more than a drop per second. Could that still be just a bad seal?

I'm telling you, mine was constant. At this point there is nothing more any of us can do to help. You're going to have to get your hands dirty and start throwing parts at it.

Cloaked
07-08-2013, 11:25 AM
My only concern is that my pump is a drip drip type leak. It's a pretty significant leak. I'd say it's more than a drop per second. Could that still be just a bad seal?
Place an order at www.skidim.com (http://www.skidim.com) for a seal, thrust washer, cover gasket, cover o-ring (if it has one), impeller (if yours is good, you'll have a spare), and fix the dang thing. You're stressing for nothing :D One can only make the call about the seal being the culprit, based on your posts, but unless it's a cracked pump casing, it has to be the seal.... That gets my vote.... a bad seal...

Visually inspect the pump casing to be sure.....

I'd also call Skidim and talk to them about the project to make sure you are not overlooking anything. Anyone who answers can assist you.

If you order by 2P (eastern) today it will be on its way. It's an easy job to rebuild the internals. ... be sure and scroll to the bottom of their front web page for a discount promo code....

Again, mark the orientation of the pump before you remove it.

.

jjbulla
07-08-2013, 11:57 AM
With my new knowledge I'm going to inspect the entire pump tonight and order the parts. I will post an update when I figure out what I'm going to do. Thanks for all the input.

Cloaked
07-08-2013, 12:04 PM
With my new knowledge I'm going to inspect the entire pump tonight and order the parts. I will post an update when I figure out what I'm going to do. Thanks for all the input.
10-4 good buddy.....

jjbulla
07-10-2013, 09:08 AM
I ordered a new seal and I'm gonna try to put it in this weekend. Hopefully it wont be too difficult.

CruisinGA
07-10-2013, 09:16 AM
When I pulled my pump to replace the seal (mine was also dripping) I found that the bearings were going bad.

Ordered new bearings, installed them and the seal and have put another 100 hrs on the boat.

Just wanted to mention this so that you knew all was not lost if you found the bearings were going bad. :)

BallBushing
07-10-2013, 12:08 PM
When I pulled my pump to replace the seal (mine was also dripping) I found that the bearings were going bad.

Ordered new bearings, installed them and the seal and have put another 100 hrs on the boat.

Just wanted to mention this so that you knew all was not lost if you found the bearings were going bad. :)

What p/n were the bearings? 6203 or 608 ? deep groove ball bearings (the two most common), were they sealed? would have "2RS" after the p/n

homer12
07-10-2013, 12:16 PM
I also replaced my seal this winter, no bearings - they were still very smooth. So far so good this year.

CruisinGA
07-10-2013, 01:31 PM
What p/n were the bearings? 6203 or 608 ? deep groove ball bearings (the two most common), were they sealed? would have "2RS" after the p/n

Here's my thread- http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=46684&highlight=bearing

Last post in the thread I commented on how the bearing looked like it was a 6203, but I don't remember for sure. They were sealed. I bought the indmar part # bearings just to be sure.

BallBushing
07-10-2013, 05:11 PM
6203 2RS The highest volume produced bearing in the world, in the millions. Cost to produce each is in the 50 cent area.

If anyone needs these, go to a bearing distributor like Motion Industries or Applied Industrial Technologies (AIT)

Don't fall for the sales tactic that you need to spend extra for an ABEC 5/7/9. ABEC 1 is fine.

Actually, in production all parts are produced to the tighter tolerance (ABEC9) then sorted out to the lower tolerances. Has nothing to do with performance, especially in a low load / low speed application like a water pump. A 6203 is rated for 17,000 rpm w/ grease lube.

FYI
6203 Commonly known as an electric motor bearing
If you skate board, get 608's, commonly known as skate board bearings. Again ABEC 1

jjbulla
07-19-2013, 04:00 PM
UPDATE: Ok I removed the pump yesterday and went to work on replacing the seal. My tool supply was pretty limited, so I just removed the impeller and tried to replace the seal from there. I got the seal in but I couldn't get it completely flush. I tried just about everything I could but nothing would work. I ended up putting everything back on the boat and testing it out. It still drips but it is less frequent then before. Do I need to get that seal completely flush or should it be ok?