PDA

View Full Version : age old question answered...


VOLFAN
01-15-2010, 09:58 AM
Now we know...

Mag_Red
01-15-2010, 10:47 AM
Now we know...now if we could only answer the question about the tree falling all would be good in the universe;)

aremsing
01-15-2010, 11:38 AM
hahaha thank you for that

bigmac
01-15-2010, 01:42 PM
whoa...!

Just a minute.....

http://mccollister.info/bear.jpg

M-Funf
01-15-2010, 02:19 PM
Check out the look on that bear's face :uglyhamme

Priceless!

Skipper
01-15-2010, 02:33 PM
Wow, internet porn fetishes are totally out of control these days!:D

TMCNo1
01-15-2010, 03:12 PM
If no none was around to hear sound, did it make a noise when it hit the ground?:rolleyes:

thatsmrmastercraft
01-15-2010, 03:14 PM
Now we know...

I suppose you have the answer to the whole chicken or the egg thing too.

VOLFAN
01-15-2010, 08:07 PM
I suppose you have the answer to the whole chicken or the egg thing too.


My thought is the chicken or bird like creature came first... The first bird was probably not much of a bird, but over many many years evolved

The chicken or the egg causality dilemma is commonly stated as "which came first, the chicken or the egg?"

Chickens hatch from eggs, but eggs are laid by chickens, making it difficult to say which originally gave rise to the other. To ancient philosophers, the question about the first chicken or egg also evoked the questions of how life and the universe in general began.

Cultural references to the chicken and egg intend to point out the futility of identifying the first case of a circular cause and consequence. It could be considered that in this approach lies the most fundamental nature of the question. A literal answer is somewhat obvious, as opposed to the logical fallacy of the metaphorical view, which sets a metaphysical ground on the dilemma. So, to understand its metaphorical meaning better, it could be reformulated as follows: "Which came first, X that can't come without Y, or Y that can't come without X?"

An equivalent situation arises in engineering and science known as circular reference, in which a parameter is required to calculate that parameter itself. Examples are Van der Waals equation and the famous Colebrook equation. Another example is the problem of calculating the required thickness of a roof -- we must first know the weight of the roof itself, which is possible only by already knowing its thickness. The problem is solved by initially assuming the parameter and by repeated iterations converging towards finer values.

Ancient references to the dilemma are found in the writings of classical philosophers. Their writings indicate that the proposed problem was perplexing to themselves and was commonly discussed by others of their time as well.

Aristotle (384-322 BC) was puzzled by the idea that there could be a first bird or egg and concluded that both the bird and egg must have always existed:

If there has been a first man he must have been born without father or mother which is repugnant to nature. For there could not have been a first egg to give a beginning to birds, or there should have been a first bird which gave a beginning to eggs; for a bird comes from an egg.

The same he held good for all species, believing, with Plato, that everything before it appeared on earth had first its being in spirit."

Plutarch (46-126 AD) referred to a hen rather than simply a bird. His is Moralia in the books titled "Table Talk" discussed a series of arguments based on questions posed in a symposium. Under the section entitled, "Whether the hen or the egg came first," the discussion is introduced in such a way suggesting that the origin of the dilemma was even older:

...the problem about the egg and the hen, which of them came first, was dragged into our talk, a difficult problem which gives investigators much trouble. And Sulla my comrade said that with a small problem, as with a tool, we were rocking loose a great and heavy one, that of the creation of the world..."

Macrobius (395423 AD), a Roman philosopher, found the problem to be interesting:

You jest about what you suppose to be a triviality, in asking whether the hen came first from an egg or the egg from a hen, but the point should be regarded as one of importance, one worthy of discussion, and careful discussion at that."

Stephen Hawking and Christopher Langan argue that the egg came before the chicken, though the real importance of the question has faded since Darwin's On the Origin of Species and the accompanying Theory of Evolution, under which the egg must have come first, assuming the question intended the egg to mean an egg in general or an egg that hatches into a chicken.

VOLFAN
01-15-2010, 08:24 PM
If no none was around to hear sound, did it make a noise when it hit the ground?:rolleyes:

I did a study on this and my findings was that that yes they do make a noice...

I walked five miles into a forest of pine trees after the pine beetles moved into this area years ago and setup a recorder. I went back a two weeks later and recoverd the recorder and after reviewing I found that they do make noise when no one is around.

thatsmrmastercraft
01-15-2010, 09:00 PM
My thought is the chicken or bird like creature came first... The first bird was probably not much of a bird, but over many many years evolved

The chicken or the egg causality dilemma is commonly stated as "which came first, the chicken or the egg?"

Chickens hatch from eggs, but eggs are laid by chickens, making it difficult to say which originally gave rise to the other. To ancient philosophers, the question about the first chicken or egg also evoked the questions of how life and the universe in general began.

Cultural references to the chicken and egg intend to point out the futility of identifying the first case of a circular cause and consequence. It could be considered that in this approach lies the most fundamental nature of the question. A literal answer is somewhat obvious, as opposed to the logical fallacy of the metaphorical view, which sets a metaphysical ground on the dilemma. So, to understand its metaphorical meaning better, it could be reformulated as follows: "Which came first, X that can't come without Y, or Y that can't come without X?"

An equivalent situation arises in engineering and science known as circular reference, in which a parameter is required to calculate that parameter itself. Examples are Van der Waals equation and the famous Colebrook equation. Another example is the problem of calculating the required thickness of a roof -- we must first know the weight of the roof itself, which is possible only by already knowing its thickness. The problem is solved by initially assuming the parameter and by repeated iterations converging towards finer values.

Ancient references to the dilemma are found in the writings of classical philosophers. Their writings indicate that the proposed problem was perplexing to themselves and was commonly discussed by others of their time as well.

Aristotle (384-322 BC) was puzzled by the idea that there could be a first bird or egg and concluded that both the bird and egg must have always existed:

If there has been a first man he must have been born without father or mother which is repugnant to nature. For there could not have been a first egg to give a beginning to birds, or there should have been a first bird which gave a beginning to eggs; for a bird comes from an egg.

The same he held good for all species, believing, with Plato, that everything before it appeared on earth had first its being in spirit."

Plutarch (46-126 AD) referred to a hen rather than simply a bird. His is Moralia in the books titled "Table Talk" discussed a series of arguments based on questions posed in a symposium. Under the section entitled, "Whether the hen or the egg came first," the discussion is introduced in such a way suggesting that the origin of the dilemma was even older:

...the problem about the egg and the hen, which of them came first, was dragged into our talk, a difficult problem which gives investigators much trouble. And Sulla my comrade said that with a small problem, as with a tool, we were rocking loose a great and heavy one, that of the creation of the world..."

Macrobius (395423 AD), a Roman philosopher, found the problem to be interesting:

You jest about what you suppose to be a triviality, in asking whether the hen came first from an egg or the egg from a hen, but the point should be regarded as one of importance, one worthy of discussion, and careful discussion at that."

Stephen Hawking and Christopher Langan argue that the egg came before the chicken, though the real importance of the question has faded since Darwin's On the Origin of Species and the accompanying Theory of Evolution, under which the egg must have come first, assuming the question intended the egg to mean an egg in general or an egg that hatches into a chicken.

Whew! Can we go back to a bear pooping in the woods?

ski_king
01-15-2010, 09:29 PM
I suppose you have the answer to the whole chicken or the egg thing too.

Egg for breakfast
Chicken for lunch

thatsmrmastercraft
01-15-2010, 09:40 PM
Egg for breakfast
Chicken for lunch

Thats it !

VOLFAN
01-15-2010, 10:07 PM
Egg for breakfast
Chicken for lunch

I do not eat breakfast, but I do however eat breakfast at dinner....

starman205
01-15-2010, 10:30 PM
If a husband has an argument with his wife and she tells him that she was wrong and he was right but nobody else hears this is the husband really right?

06' X-2 R8R H8R
01-16-2010, 01:50 AM
Classic........