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glassmaster
01-02-2010, 12:04 AM
I have a 87' 190 351 Windsor and did not know if these were stock motors or if they have had mild cams etc. The motor originally had a points distributor but I put a Mallory conversion kit in it to make it an electronic ignition.
So I was not sure what degree to set the timing at.
Thanks

TMCNo1
01-02-2010, 07:31 AM
I have a 87' 190 351 Windsor and did not know if these were stock motors or if they have had mild cams etc. The motor originally had a points distributor but I put a Mallory conversion kit in it to make it an electronic ignition.
So I was not sure what degree to set the timing at.
Thanks

Normally 10 degrees BTDC.

cordark615
01-12-2010, 05:13 PM
Where did you get the mallory kit at?

Chicago190
01-12-2010, 06:17 PM
Where did you get the mallory kit at?

http://skidim.com/products.asp?dept=1113 is one source. I don't know if dealers stock the conversion kits, but you could check with your local dealer.

cordark615
01-12-2010, 08:07 PM
Cool, im gonna give them a call.

glassmaster
01-13-2010, 07:54 PM
Where did you get the mallory kit at?


Here is where I got mine;
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00027H1I0/...SIN=B00027H1I0

ccowell
01-14-2010, 09:33 AM
I have a 79 S&S and it ran GREAT before i put this kit in my boat. I figured that the electronic would help out but it just made my engine run worse. I fought and fought all summer to get my boat running correctly. Countless hours with the timing gun and reading manuals on carb rebuilds, timing advancements EVERYTHING. Ended up getting the timing incorrect and ran the engine HOT and i think that I will be doing a head gasket this spring because of it. I still have not gotten my boat running correct. Wasted the whole summer because of it. Now i cant even get it within 20 deg of being in time. If anyone knows whats going on with mine i would love some advice as well.

glassmaster
01-14-2010, 11:41 AM
[QUOTE=ccowell;653543]I have a 79 S&S and it ran GREAT before i put this kit in my boat. I figured that the electronic would help out but it just made my engine run worse. I fought and fought all summer to get my boat running correctly. Countless hours with the timing gun and reading manuals on carb rebuilds, timing advancements EVERYTHING. Ended up getting the timing incorrect and ran the engine HOT and i think that I will be doing a head gasket this spring because of it. I still have not gotten my boat running correct. Wasted the whole summer because of it. Now i cant even get it within 20 deg of being in time. If anyone knows whats going on with mine i would love some advice as well.[/QUOTE

How did it make it run worse? Besides run hot. Did it have a pinging, no power, rough idle etc?
The owners manual says "duel points" 30-31 degrees in one column
and in another column it says "timing" 10 degrees @ 100 rpm.
I know I am probably comparing apples to oranges, points / electronic.
I don't have the paper anymore from the conversion kit, but I can't remember it saying anything about setting the timing. Did yours?
I don't want to have the same problem either.
I would like to know this as well.

I would like to know as well.

glassmaster
01-14-2010, 11:46 AM
sorry thats "timing" 10 degrees @ 1000 rpm. not 100 rpm

JLeuck64
01-14-2010, 11:50 AM
I have a 79 S&S and it ran GREAT before i put this kit in my boat. I figured that the electronic would help out but it just made my engine run worse. I fought and fought all summer to get my boat running correctly. Countless hours with the timing gun and reading manuals on carb rebuilds, timing advancements EVERYTHING. Ended up getting the timing incorrect and ran the engine HOT and i think that I will be doing a head gasket this spring because of it. I still have not gotten my boat running correct. Wasted the whole summer because of it. Now i cant even get it within 20 deg of being in time. If anyone knows whats going on with mine i would love some advice as well.

That's a darn shame.

Must not have been hooking up the timing light correctly...:(
It is pretty easy to cook a motor if you set the timing ATDC (after top dead center) It exposes more of the cylinder wall to the flame front. So less of the heat is being used to push the pistons down and now the cooling system has to deal with it, which it can't...

ccowell
01-14-2010, 01:53 PM
The light was deff hooked up correctly I had many people check it out and help me do it. After the first 8 times that I did it myself, and thought that i was doing it incorrectly, I called in the big guns that I know. The engine would run fine when it was not in gear but then when I put it in gear it would just die and stall out. So I messed with the linkage and rebuilt the carb and nothing worked. It would also jump time and be dead on one day and then the next it would be 20 deg off. It was awful because I couldn't pull a skier up all summer. I think that it is my carb still though, darn ethanol messing everything up.

thatsmrmastercraft
01-14-2010, 05:28 PM
I have a 79 S&S and it ran GREAT before i put this kit in my boat. I figured that the electronic would help out but it just made my engine run worse. I fought and fought all summer to get my boat running correctly. Countless hours with the timing gun and reading manuals on carb rebuilds, timing advancements EVERYTHING. Ended up getting the timing incorrect and ran the engine HOT and i think that I will be doing a head gasket this spring because of it. I still have not gotten my boat running correct. Wasted the whole summer because of it. Now i cant even get it within 20 deg of being in time. If anyone knows whats going on with mine i would love some advice as well.

My guess is you have the dist. in wrong or you have the firing order off. I had my dist out last summer and put it in one tooth off. Gave me grief for an hour trying to set the timing until I started from scratch and got everything correct in ten minutes.

ccowell
01-15-2010, 09:37 AM
I didn't ever remove the dist. The only thing that could have been a cause was the springs in the dist. They broke due to the fact that they were 30 years old. I bought new ones from skidim and put them in. How many other people here have older MC's with the springs broken? Im getting to the point were im going to just get a new dist, take my carb to someone and redo the head gasket. If that doesn't work Crate 454 :D haha

thatsmrmastercraft
01-15-2010, 09:54 AM
I didn't ever remove the dist. The only thing that could have been a cause was the springs in the dist. They broke due to the fact that they were 30 years old. I bought new ones from skidim and put them in. How many other people here have older MC's with the springs broken? Im getting to the point were im going to just get a new dist, take my carb to someone and redo the head gasket. If that doesn't work Crate 454 :D haha

I think you need to start from scratch to find out where something went wrong. I would attack in this order:

1. Check to make sure the firing order is correct. Follow each plug wire to proper spark plug. Follow firing order stamped on front of intake manifold.

2. Before removing the dist cap, verify that it is located properly.

3. Remove Dist cap and verify rotor is on properly. Check underside of rotor to verify not broken or missing correct index tab. I have done this.

4. Check to see that springs are installed correctly and returning all the way.

5. Make sure the new electronic ignition is located and adjusted properly in the dist.

If it ran fine before you started with replacing the ign. and springs, then somewhere along the path of replacing parts should be the solution. One thing to remember, new doesn't always mean good. Sometimes new parts are defective - not very often, but always a possibility. Keep poking around. You will find what went wrong eventually.

mbeach
01-19-2010, 09:35 AM
jimN has posted that something needs to be disabled/disconnected before setting timing. suggest you do a search and see what he was talking about. i remember in the old days of setting timing in my old tr3, you had to disconnect the vaccum advance before setting the timing.

TMCNo1
01-19-2010, 09:38 AM
jimN has posted that something needs to be disabled/disconnected before setting timing. suggest you do a search and see what he was talking about. i remember in the old days of setting timing in my old tr3, you had to disconnect the vaccum advance before setting the timing.

Since there is no vacuum advance on the marine distributors, nothing needs to be done other than checking it and setting it at 600 rpm in gear on the water for best results.

mbeach
01-19-2010, 10:03 AM
tmc -- i am aware that that a marine distributor does not have a vacuum advance. i was merely using the tr3 as an example that this may be more complicated than just hooking up a light and setting the timimg but i am not sure it applies in this case. it probably does not apply since the 79ss does not have efi.

this is the jimN post i was referring to which implies my point: Base timing advance is 10 BTDC but the ECM needs to be out into diagnostic mode and the RPM increased to 1000 before setting it. If you have a scan tool, it may have a button for this mode.

JimN
01-19-2010, 10:23 AM
jimN has posted that something needs to be disabled/disconnected before setting timing. suggest you do a search and see what he was talking about. i remember in the old days of setting timing in my old tr3, you had to disconnect the vaccum advance before setting the timing.

That's only in injected motors- the ECM needs to be in diagnostic mode, which disables spark stabilization.

glassmaster
01-19-2010, 06:57 PM
tmc -- i am aware that that a marine distributor does not have a vacuum advance. i was merely using the tr3 as an example that this may be more complicated than just hooking up a light and setting the timimg but i am not sure it applies in this case. it probably does not apply since the 79ss does not have efi.

this is the jimN post i was referring to which implies my point: Base timing advance is 10 BTDC but the ECM needs to be out into diagnostic mode and the RPM increased to 1000 before setting it. If you have a scan tool, it may have a button for this mode.

That's only in injected motors- the ECM needs to be in diagnostic mode, which disables spark stabilization.

So I can not just hook up a basic timing light and set the timing at 10 BTDC and the timing is correct.
What RPM do I set the timing at and do I have to set it in the water with the tranny in gear?
What exactly is diagnostic mode.

TMCNo1
01-19-2010, 07:25 PM
So I can not just hook up a basic timing light and set the timing at 10 BTDC and the timing is correct.
What RPM do I set the timing at and do I have to set it in the water with the tranny in gear?
What exactly is diagnostic mode.


Post #16 for timing info and diagnostic mode only applies to EFI engines which does not apply to you as previously posted.

JimN
01-19-2010, 07:49 PM
So I can not just hook up a basic timing light and set the timing at 10 BTDC and the timing is correct.
What RPM do I set the timing at and do I have to set it in the water with the tranny in gear?
What exactly is diagnostic mode.

Your valve cover may have had a decal with engine specs- it should be either 6 or 10 BTDC. Either will work and neither will damage the engine if you set it to one and not the other. If you re-use the old distributor, make sure you service the centrifugal advance weights and springs. IIRC, Doug posted a list of tune-up specs and I think the RPM was listed. If not, the difference between idling at 650-750RPM and revving it to 1000 RPM isn't that great (I have seen both as the recommended RPM). If you set it at 1000 in neutral and it hesitates out of the hole, set it at idle, in gear.