Riddle Me This ....

[Skipper]

I have been struggling with 22 off at 34 mph. Stuck at 2.5 to 3 balls. At 32 mph I make almost every 22 off pass. (175lbs, 67 Inch D3)

To work on my technique, I headed into the open water. I discovered that at 32 mph I was making tight turns and getting great angle across the wakes. At 34 mph, I was struggling to turn the ski.

I forced myself to thrust my hips forward. I practically was squatting on the ski. Planted my outbound hand on my buttocks to generate a good arc. No matter what I did, I could not turn the ski. Seemed like I was skimming across the top of the water and could not get a grip.

Just to confirm, I slowed back down to 32 mph. Could have run at 41 off. Back to 34 mph, same issue.

So ... what gives? :confused:

[mig]

My two cents; watch a segment of "West Coast Slalom" repeatedly - really listen and watch the graphics - until you can pick out a couple of things to work on. Think about yourself skiing that way. Do it with every segment until your brain wants to make your body ski that way. Sounds too easy but it really changed the way I ski. Good luck!

[cdstukey]

The is no rule that says you have to jump the whole 2 mph at once, try a smaller speed increase and see if you are still having issues.

[Jorski]

Get someone who knows a lot about ski set-up to take a look at what the ski is doing...sometimes, it can really have a terrific impact.

[Jesus_Freak]

I have been struggling with 22 off at 34 mph. Stuck at 2.5 to 3 balls. At 32 mph I make almost every 22 off pass. (175lbs, 67 Inch D3)...

I am exactly where you are. I made that 34/22 pass only twice this year. Most of the time I eat ski or water or both.

I found that the difference between my makies and my breakies was simply my hips after the turn. Even if I wheelied the ski, I could recover with post-turn hip adjustments. That doesnt really help you any except to say that I feel your pain. :)

[beef]

I'm sure you'll get a lot of varied options here with what you've posted, but I think it would be most helpful to see a video.

My gut reaction (not always the right one) is that the ski is probably not engaging along it's length at the higher speed. The ski rides higher in the water & you may need to work on getting your weight forward by exaggerating your ankle bend forward coming into the turns. Think about keeping weight on your front foot a bit. Hope this helps!

[Skipper]

Thank you all for the input. I have been able to creep up on it 50 rpm at a time. I figure it has something to do with the hips but I also suspect ski setup. I went through a stage with my phantom where I tweeked the fin constantly. I got really good then one change set me back drastically. I have not touched the fin on the D3. Thanks again.

[Jesus_Freak]

I have not touched the fin on the D3.

Good, leave it alone! 8p

[Kevin 89MC]

I'm also in a similar place, same ski too. Is this ski new to you? This summer I switched from my old KD7000 to a 67" Nomad RCX, and the first few times I couldn't get it to turn at all either. It took a handful of sessions to get used to it, but by the end of the summer I had it figured out. It takes more body movement on my part, which I like because it geves me more room to adjust my position. I tried a shorter ski and felt like I could do a 360 at the ball if I wanted to. You're right though, at 32 mph I need to be careful to not over-turn the ski.

In the spring, I start my sets at 15 off/32 mph, then bump up to 34 and leave it there. My 22's are usually pretty late toward the end gates when I get them. Occasionally I do try 33 mph, that does help sometimes, but I don't like getting too comfortable running "slow". By the end of the summer, I'm usually able to start at 15 off/34 mph, and I think it helps my consistentcy when I'm not having to adjust the speed during every set.

One thing that helped me was spending more time at 34 mph. I used to do a lot of free skiing and course skiing at 32 mph, and always felt that 34 seemed so fast. But now I do all my free skiing at 34, and try to get there ASAP in the course. I free ski at 22 and 28 off, so I get used to the shorter rope lengths too. I find now that I ski better at 34 than at 32, before it used to be the opposite.

I also don't have much other advice other than play with the ski settings, but make sure you use a caliper and measure all your benchmarks, so you can always go back if things get worse. I'd try "shortening" the ski by bringing the fin forward, or moving the bindings forward one hole to get the ski to "bite" more. If you have the ability, watch yourself on video, it's helped me out a ton. By far the biggest help for me was skiing with someone better than me.

I have switched to more of a "West Coast" style, trying to counter rotate before the turn. When I remember to do it, it helps a ton. Now if I could just get hooked back up with the proper angle and load, this course skiing stuff would be much easier!
Good luck, and keep us posted! Post some video if you get the chance too. Course skiing sure is addicting...
Kevin

[Skipper]

Thanks Kevin,
This was my first season on the D3. I switched over from a Phantom. I felt great on the first set! It only took a few passes to get dialed in on 34 mph at 15 off. I shortened the rope and found myself making rough turns and stumbling across course. Tried running the 22's at 32mph. Very smooth, fluid turns with great angle. Back to 34 mph and I was getting rocked again.

Crept up on it 50 rpm at a time. I am pretty consistent at 33mph. But I get behind as I get faster.

That's why I headed out into the open water. That's when I noticed the total difference in my ability to turn the ski from 32 mph to 34 mph.

I am already one hole forward with my binding setup. I think I'll try just not running less than 34 mph until I "figure it out".

Thanks again.

[MYMC]

If the ski wont turn you are not getting free of the boat.

[h2oskifreak]

I didn't see your age mentioned in the thread. Speed is the one constant I always try to keep. I will ski 32 mph for the first time or two of the season and then 34 mph for the rest of the season. If your "old enough" that you won't have to ski 36mph (thank god, I'm there), I suggest staying with 34 once you get your 22 down. If you ever want to ski tournements, speed is so important to your training. Just my opinion but the less variables you "mess with" the better and then you can work on what you are doing right and wrong if the boat is a constant. Seems fast right now but it will get comfortable the more you do it.

[Skipper]

I am 42 years old. So I am a 34mph skier. Would like to be anyhow.

So if I am not getting free of the boat....do I need more angle across the wake? I run into a slack problem on my 22 off 34mph passes. I have been told that is pulling too long.

[MYMC]

I am 42 years old. So I am a 34mph skier. Would like to be anyhow.

So if I am not getting free of the boat....do I need more angle across the wake? I run into a slack problem on my 22 off 34mph passes. I have been told that is pulling too long.
Since I cannot see you ski I dont know if you are pulling too long or pulling twice (i.e. after the 2nd wake) if you have slack it is due to you out running the boat (at the wrong time) or giving the handle away...but you have noticed you cannot turn on a slack line.

In order for a modern ski like your D3 to work correctly you need weight on that front foot, much more so than the Phantom which was an archaic design when new...

Think about getting the work done behind the boat...rope tension through your down shoulder, think front foot front foot front foot as you are coming off the 2nd wake, let the boat take the rope from you...DON'T GIVE IT AWAY...by this I mean don't go sticking your arm and hand out (thus creating slack) make the boat take it from you, and finally ski back to the handle...then lather rise and repeat.:D

Hope that helps...

[macattack]

Agree w/the "need to see a video" inputs...it's the best way to receive some great tips/critiques. Would also post the video link on the Water Skier forum...

http://thewaterskiforum.com/forum.html

How many buoys were you consistently running on the Phantom?

Also, if you are on a D3 Z7, based on your 175lb's and 34 mph it appears you should be on a 66" vs 67" model???

http://store.d3skis.com/product-p/d3z7.htm

Keep it fun, it is addicting!! Good luck...mac

[Jesus_Freak]

Since I cannot see you ski I dont know if you are pulling too long or pulling twice (i.e. after the 2nd wake) if you have slack it is due to you out running the boat (at the wrong time) or giving the handle away...but you have noticed you cannot turn on a slack line.

In order for a modern ski like your D3 to work correctly you need weight on that front foot, much more so than the Phantom which was an archaic design when new...

Think about getting the work done behind the boat...rope tension through your down shoulder, think front foot front foot front foot as you are coming off the 2nd wake, let the boat take the rope from you...DON'T GIVE IT AWAY...by this I mean don't go sticking your arm and hand out (thus creating slack) make the boat take it from you, and finally ski back to the handle...then lather rise and repeat.:D

Hope that helps...

Of course this is great advice, but in the 14 nanoseconds it takes me to carry out my edge change I continue to forget all of this. :)

[shepherd]

Don't put too much weight on that forward foot or you may quickly go from WT F to OTF. 8p

I'm not much on the West Coast style stuff; got the video, didn't help me. A great website to go to for technique tips is proskicoach.com. I like the style they (Chris Rossi, Wade Williams) teach there: Try to stay light on the rope, let the ski turn itself, don't try to fight the boat.