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h2oskifreak
11-19-2009, 12:17 PM
I need to upgrade my ski machine. Currently skiing a 1975 stars and stripes and I love how cool she is, but my skiing is starting to surpass the boat. I love older stuff and it's been relatively problem free since I've owner her (4 seasons) but it is a matter of time till she leave me high and dry (old stuff just does that from time to time). Here's my situation; I will be 44 y/o next ski season and am a course skier. I made 5 full passes at 35 off, 34 mph last year, yet to try 38 off. I open at 28 and ski 2-3 times a week on a very private lake and got out 40 some times last season. I need a boat with speed control to take my skiing to the next level. I also have a 19 ft. Four Winns w/ an 305 V-8 and an open bow that I take to Powell a time or two each year to compliment a larger boat that stays at Powell. I am thinking that it would simplify things to maybe go to a 205 and get rid of the Four Winns but don't know enough about them to know for sure. Obviously they are longer/heavier but how it the wake for my skiing and will it be good for the occasional Lake Powell venture? What else is a pro or con for my situation? Any and all comments welcomed.

east tx skier
11-19-2009, 12:36 PM
I pulled a skier into 35 off with my old 205. Spray wasn't an issue on that windless day, but would have been at 38 off. To rule out spray at the shorter line lengths, I'd say go for a 95--97 hulled 190. With the 2nd generation 205, while spray is not an issue, the wake is less comparable to that era of 190 and would be fairly large compared to that which you've grown accustomed behind your older, smaller ski specific hull.

Just one guy, who is not a short line skier, but has pulled a few's opinion.

h2oskifreak
11-19-2009, 01:18 PM
I pulled a skier into 35 off with my old 205. Spray wasn't an issue on that windless day, but would have been at 38 off. To rule out spray at the shorter line lengths, I'd say go for a 95--97 hulled 190. With the 2nd generation 205, while spray is not an issue, the wake is less comparable to that era of 190 and would be fairly large compared to that which you've grown accustomed behind your older, smaller ski specific hull.

Just one guy, who is not a short line skier, but has pulled a few's opinion.

Thanks East Tx. I should also mention in these tough times price is an issue also. I think 95-97 190's will be about at the top of my range, especially if I don't get rid of the other open bow boat. Why do you say 95-97? I have heard good things about the 93-95's????

flipper
11-19-2009, 01:21 PM
Thanks East Tx. I should also mention in these tough times price is an issue also. I think 95-97 190's will be about at the top of my range, especially if I don't get rid of the other open bow boat. Why do you say 95-97? I have heard good things about the 93-95's????
You mean 91-94? They are great and people will argue the best wake ever. But at shorter lengths they have a spary issue. I have never skied close enough for it to be an issue for me. 95-97 fixed the problem with the spray

Edit: I'm talking 190's not 205's

etduc
11-19-2009, 02:01 PM
I need to upgrade my ski machine. Currently skiing a 1975 stars and stripes and I love how cool she is, but my skiing is starting to surpass the boat. I love older stuff and it's been relatively problem free since I've owner her (4 seasons) but it is a matter of time till she leave me high and dry (old stuff just does that from time to time). Here's my situation; I will be 44 y/o next ski season and am a course skier. I made 5 full passes at 35 off, 34 mph last year, yet to try 38 off. I open at 28 and ski 2-3 times a week on a very private lake and got out 40 some times last season. I need a boat with speed control to take my skiing to the next level. I also have a 19 ft. Four Winns w/ an 305 V-8 and an open bow that I take to Powell a time or two each year to compliment a larger boat that stays at Powell. I am thinking that it would simplify things to maybe go to a 205 and get rid of the Four Winns but don't know enough about them to know for sure. Obviously they are longer/heavier but how it the wake for my skiing and will it be good for the occasional Lake Powell venture? What else is a pro or con for my situation? Any and all comments welcomed.

Pre 95 205 wake, is not too far away from 190 of that period. The 205 has a little more edge, to the lip of the wake, but at 34mph it's pretty darn flat. (Probably, because of the additional weight.) search for "show us your wake" thread. Doug (Eastie) documented the 205 wake pretty good, on his prop test thread.

Neither one, is a great big water boat. The pre 95 205, while having more seating room, doesn't have alot of storage. (Adding a tower, for ski racks, helps.)

oldriver
11-19-2009, 02:52 PM
just for fun everyone is always referencing the older boats.How does the 2001 thru current PS190 hull compare to the wake and spray of these older boats?Just dont hear anything about them and want to upgrade to one myself sometime.Please chime in anyone who has skied these current hulls at short line and the older ones as well

JohnE
11-19-2009, 05:47 PM
just for fun everyone is always referencing the older boats.How does the 2001 thru current PS190 hull compare to the wake and spray of these older boats?Just dont hear anything about them and want to upgrade to one myself sometime.Please chime in anyone who has skied these current hulls at short line and the older ones as well

From what I've read and heard the evo hull of 2001 - present is way better than the 91 - 94. Both in terms of tracking and skiing. Though a lot of people will disagree with that statement. The exception might be longer lengths in which case the 91 - 94 might have an edge. Though the early evo hulls didn't have a hook in the hull which can be added and possibly and allegedly suffered from chine lock due to being symmetrical.

Let the stoning begin.

east tx skier
11-19-2009, 06:39 PM
Thanks East Tx. I should also mention in these tough times price is an issue also. I think 95-97 190's will be about at the top of my range, especially if I don't get rid of the other open bow boat. Why do you say 95-97? I have heard good things about the 93-95's????

Hull change was 95. 91--94 has a great wake, but the spray will be a factor at the line length you mention.

From what I've read and heard the evo hull of 2001 - present is way better than the 91 - 94. Both in terms of tracking and skiing. Though a lot of people will disagree with that statement. The exception might be longer lengths in which case the 91 - 94 might have an edge. Though the early evo hulls didn't have a hook in the hull which can be added and possibly and allegedly suffered from chine lock due to being symmetrical.

Let the stoning begin.

My take (on the longer line lengths and slower speeds) was that the wake was better on the 197 than my 93 205, but not $20K better. The 91--94 190's wake is smaller than the EVO's, but a bit narrower and firmer than the EVO 2002 TT and forward. So at long line, you're getting a little jolt on both boats. Kind of a wash. The real difference in the newer boats is inside the rooster tail. That, and the price tag.

BriEOD
11-19-2009, 08:35 PM
94' 205 and be done with it. Great wake, plus EFI over a carb.

BrianM
11-20-2009, 09:22 AM
Shoot me a PM I have a line on a very clean low hour '96 190 at a very reasonable price.

macattack
11-20-2009, 09:39 AM
Ref your "I need a boat with speed control to take my skiing to the next level." All MCs earlier than 2007 can be fitted Perfect Pass/Stargazer. Just be aware the newer boats/tournaments use Zero Off...big difference in pulls. That being said, I ski behind a 2005 MC w/SG and most of the time ski better in tournaments behind ZO; you just have to try different ZO settings to find the one that matches the pull you are used to...mac

ProStar Slalom
11-20-2009, 11:41 AM
I'd vote for '95-'97 190. At your skiing level, I wouldn't recommend compromising with a larger boat. If you need to bring a ski boat to Powell, the 95-97 has more freeboard than the 91-94 hull to deal with the rough water/waves you experience there. If you're going to sell your existing MasterCraft, you can probably get a '95-'97 with perfect pass for about 6-8K above what you sell yours for.

shepherd
11-20-2009, 11:42 AM
I regularly ski behind a '93 PS 205 from 22 off into 32 off (34 mph) (including last night :D). IMO the wake is comparable to, if not better than, my 2003 PS 197. Really, any difference is negligible. The boat's owner regularly skis into 38 off. Spray is not an issue at all.

The '93 era PS 205 boat is an excellent option for a course skier who doesn't want to spend the money on a newer 197 but wants more room than the older model 190/197 gives.

Witness140
11-20-2009, 12:40 PM
Are you currently or do you plan on becoming a tournament skier? 35 and 38 are very respectable. Are you running any segment timing now to see how good your driver(s) are?

If you are running 35's behind that boat with a hand driver, don't ever do anything to upset that driver or drivers. They are worth their weight in gold. Running 35 or 38 is as much about the driver as it is about the skier - and you are talking hand driving as well. Just centerline deviation with speed control is critical at those line lengths, especially 38.

If you are passionate about chasing bouys and plan on going to the next level - tournaments etc, then your purchase satisfaction with a boat of the vintage you are considering - will only yield short term happiness.

Can you find a partner and grab an 05 and up 197? There are some higher time 07's I've seen lately under 30K. I know where there is an 08' with ZO that might be had for 30 or better as well. About 500 hrs.

2 really happy bouy chasers spending 14K each on a boat that gets them both exactly what they need/want vs 1 bouy chaser spending 14K on an older boat....not sure it will take you to the level you want to go - at least happily.

Good luck!

ProStar Slalom
11-20-2009, 02:01 PM
If you are passionate about chasing bouys and plan on going to the next level - tournaments etc, then your purchase satisfaction with a boat of the vintage you are considering - will only yield short term happiness.


2 really happy bouy chasers spending 14K each on a boat that gets them both exactly what they need/want vs 1 bouy chaser spending 14K on an older boat....not sure it will take you to the level you want to go - at least happily.

Good luck![/QUOTE]


Witness, what makes you say this? The new EVO boats are nice, but strictly from a skiability perspective I haven't noticed anything that would justify the upgrade, with the exception of maybe having ZO to match what is being used in tournaments. I'm not a '38 off skier, but I have pulled plenty behind my '01 19Skier (95-97 hull), and no complaints from them.

h2oskifreak
11-21-2009, 07:05 PM
As usual the comments here are well thought out and helpful. I don't plan on skiing in tournaments and if I do it will be 1-2 a year. I just want to progress, and enjoy myself and be on the water. My business and income is off a lot this last year (Real Estate) so I have got to keep the price reasonable. So the early 90's prostar seems like a good start. I believe if I shop carefully the value shouldn't change dramatically if I want to go newer when my business comes back. I am doing spilt timing and some are in and some out. The speed control is a must for that reason and I also want to make it easier for the drivers.

Jesus_Freak
11-22-2009, 05:51 PM
I regularly ski behind a '93 PS 205 from 22 off into 32 off (34 mph) (including last night :D). IMO the wake is comparable to, if not better than, my 2003 PS 197. Really, any difference is negligible....

The '93 205 wake is, without question, smaller than the 197.:)