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View Full Version : Why health care cost are so expensive.....


Jerseydave
11-09-2009, 10:52 AM
About 1 month ago my 6 y.o. daughter split her chin open on the coffee table. It was a sunday night so we had no choice but to take her to the ER since it looked like she would need stitches to reduce the size of the scar.

They used dermabond instead of stitches........took about 1 hour......$3,200! (lucky for us our out-of-pocket was just $100)

And we wonder why the cost of health insurance is so high! (I pay around $1000/month for my family of 4)

bigmac
11-09-2009, 11:05 AM
Those cyanoacrylate glues cost the hospital about $35 per vial. Typical markup would be a charge of about $110 to the patient.

Mag_Red
11-09-2009, 11:30 AM
Those cyanoacrylate glues cost the hospital about $35 per vial. Typical markup would be a charge of about $110 to the patient.well that explains the $3200 bill:rolleyes:

bigmac
11-09-2009, 11:38 AM
$110 for parts. Labor is additional.

flipper
11-09-2009, 12:04 PM
well that explains the $3200 bill:rolleyes:

That's what I was thinking. I can't believe the cost of health care, and hospitals around here are going broke? How?

bigmac
11-09-2009, 12:21 PM
That's what I was thinking. I can't believe the cost of health care, and hospitals around here are going broke? How?
When costs exceed revenue, companies go broke.

Do you guys really think that that hospital has a hope in hell of actually getting $3200 for that ER visit?:rolleyes:

mcdoon
11-09-2009, 12:26 PM
Layer upon layer of bureaucracy, most of which is no doubt there to manage governmental regulations. Add to that the cost of liability insurance and avoidance and it's no wonder you get a hefty bill for such simple things like taking care of a cut.

Jorski
11-09-2009, 12:30 PM
Luckily you have competition keeping things efficient!;)

flipper
11-09-2009, 12:58 PM
When costs exceed revenue, companies go broke.

Do you guys really think that that hospital has a hope in hell of actually getting $3200 for that ER visit?:rolleyes:
really?:rolleyes:

No, they probably got closer to 1500 or so. It really cost even say $500 to spend 5 minutes to slop a $35 tube glue on her chin?

bcampbe7
11-09-2009, 12:59 PM
Luckily you have competition keeping things efficient!;)

Not for long

Skipper
11-09-2009, 12:59 PM
Luckily you have competition keeping things efficient!;)

If the same thing happened under a socialist government run health care system, then first the little girl and her parents would have waited six hours in the ER before ever being seen. Then, they would have been ushered to a room where some incompetent, government employee stumbled through taking her vital signs. Two hours later they would have seen a government health care excuse for a doctor. He would have a 15 minute limit per patient. Then he would have done a piss poor job of stitching up her chin. He would not have treated to prevent infection. The cut would turn into a horrible scar. And under the government run health care system, she would not be able to get the scar removed.

But, this is not Canada! 8p

Jesus_Freak
11-09-2009, 01:01 PM
About 1 month ago my 6 y.o. daughter split her chin open on the coffee table. It was a sunday night so we had no choice but to take her to the ER since it looked like she would need stitches to reduce the size of the scar.

They used dermabond instead of stitches........took about 1 hour......$3,200! (lucky for us our out-of-pocket was just $100)

And we wonder why the cost of health insurance is so high! (I pay around $1000/month for my family of 4)

Ouch!

Be glad that this happened before the US government gets their tentacles wrapped around the system. Costs will only increase.

bcampbe7
11-09-2009, 01:03 PM
Ouch!

Be glad that this happened before the US government gets their tentacles wrapped around the system. Costs will only increase.

Nooooooooooo, Nancy Pelosi said it won't so...

Jesus_Freak
11-09-2009, 01:04 PM
Nooooooooooo, Nancy Pelosi said it won't so...

Good one. :D How could any sane being expect anything else based on decades of data?

coz
11-09-2009, 01:09 PM
I suggest a $5 box of these if you have kids.......would have saved you $100 + gas & time :rolleyes:

http://www.benmeadows.com/images/xl/Band-Aid-Butterfly-Bandage-BEN_i_LB9010_3.JPG

Jorski
11-09-2009, 01:13 PM
If the same thing happened under a socialist government run health care system, then first the little girl and her parents would have waited six hours in the ER before ever being seen. Then, they would have been ushered to a room where some incompetent, government employee stumbled through taking her vital signs. Two hours later they would have seen a government health care excuse for a doctor. He would have a 15 minute limit per patient. Then he would have done a piss poor job of stitching up her chin. He would not have treated to prevent infection. The cut would turn into a horrible scar. And under the government run health care system, she would not be able to get the scar removed.


Really? No qualified physicians in Canada huh? Just a bunch of government janitors with white coats on...sigh.

Don't be so silly. Remember, this was acomplaint about an occurence in the US system :)

Sodar
11-09-2009, 01:17 PM
This should be a fun thread. :rolleyes:

André
11-09-2009, 01:25 PM
This should be a fun thread. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't mess with jorski.
His Leafs won a hockey game this week end...8p

/Last post in this thread.Going back to Harold's teak advices...
// J/K jorski.I think they actually won 2 lately...

Swimmer
11-09-2009, 01:31 PM
A few problems here where I reside. Hispanics that rush to the hospital over any little thing. Homeless that hit the ER when it is cold so they have a gurney and a blanket. Peeps without any insurance at all or money to pay for services and ONLY go to the ER, not the walk in places we have available to them. It is just atrocious!

Jerseydave
11-09-2009, 01:33 PM
Those cyanoacrylate glues cost the hospital about $35 per vial. Typical markup would be a charge of about $110 to the patient.

Here's the breakdown:

Level 3 (whatever that means) $2067
Wound closure simple $1125
Dermabond $304

Total $3,496.00

Seems reasonable to me :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Jorski
11-09-2009, 01:33 PM
J/K jorski.I think they actually won 2 lately...

Not bad for a team that you "forgot" even existed eh Andre?

Unfortunatley, the last two games notwithstanding...they stink.

JimN
11-09-2009, 01:48 PM
Luckily you have competition keeping things efficient!;)

If you want to contribute something helpful, go ahead but if you want to keep dumping on us and our system, piss off.

JimN
11-09-2009, 01:50 PM
Good one. :D How could any sane being expect anything else based on decades of data?

You're assuming she's sane?

woftam
11-09-2009, 01:52 PM
If you want to contribute something helpful, go ahead but if you want to keep dumping on us and our system, piss off.

It goes both ways. His system (Canadian) was dumped on rather unfairly....
(gross exagerations....)

bigmac
11-09-2009, 02:30 PM
Here's the breakdown:

Level 3 (whatever that means) $2067
Wound closure simple $1125
Dermabond $304

Total $3,496.00

Seems reasonable to me :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

What are you using to define "reasonable"?...your experience with the plumber? Buying something at the hardware store? Your experience as a salesman for a large corporation? Getting your car fixed at the body shop? You think those are valid comparisons that allow you to judge "reasonable" relative to the functioning of the morass our health care system has become? Do you have any idea whatsoever of the complexity that it takes to run a hospital emergency room with its regulatory oversight by the state, the Feds, private regulatory agencies, liability insurance regulation, and trying to negotiate with dozens of insurance companies all with different paperwork requirements?

:rolleyes:

JimN
11-09-2009, 02:32 PM
It goes both ways. His system (Canadian) was dumped on rather unfairly....
(gross exagerations....)

That's true but it was after people said it was a great system, blah, blah, blah. They also have only about 10% of the US population, so they have no way to compare theirs to ours in terms of how it should be implemented or how to make it better. For that matter, as I have posted several times, we have more than half of the entire Canadian population here, in illegals. Even if they had a proportionate number up there, I'm pretty sure they'd tell anyone trying to cross their border to go back. They certainly wouldn't allow them in if they revealed any criminal history- I know someone who wanted to go to Vancouver to ski and they wouldn't allow him to go because he had 2 DUI.

I saw an article last week about the nearly 1 Billion people who would rather live in another country. Guess where ~65% want to live.

JimN
11-09-2009, 02:34 PM
What are you using to define "reasonable"?...your experience with the plumber? Buying something at the hardware store? Your experience as a salesman for a large corporation? Getting your car fixed at the body shop? You think those are valid comparisons that allow you to judge "reasonable" relative to the functioning of the morass our health care system has become? Do you have any idea whatsoever of the complexity that it takes to run a hospital emergency room with its regulatory oversight by the state, the Feds, private regulatory agencies, liability insurance regulation, and trying to negotiate with dozens of insurance companies all with different paperwork requirements?

:rolleyes:

You missed the three icons with the eyes rolled, didn't you.

JimN
11-09-2009, 02:37 PM
What are you using to define "reasonable"?...your experience with the plumber? Buying something at the hardware store? Your experience as a salesman for a large corporation? Getting your car fixed at the body shop? You think those are valid comparisons that allow you to judge "reasonable" relative to the functioning of the morass our health care system has become? Do you have any idea whatsoever of the complexity that it takes to run a hospital emergency room with its regulatory oversight by the state, the Feds, private regulatory agencies, liability insurance regulation, and trying to negotiate with dozens of insurance companies all with different paperwork requirements?

:rolleyes:

I don't know how long you have been practicing but are you able to provide some kind of time line for the increase in paperwork that you have been required to deal with? Did it become increasingly complex and burdensome in the '60s, '70s , or before? I don't know how much admin you have to do but I'm just curious to know when it all became such a gigantic mess if you have some insight.

bigmac
11-09-2009, 03:46 PM
I've been practicing medicine since 1982. I'm not sure that there has been a discreet break point, rather it's been a continual evolution. If there has been one index event in the last 50 years, it certainly is likely to have been the creation of Medicare. As only the government can, the level of bureaucracy took a definite turn at that point and it has become increasingly complex. And it's getting worse, and will continue to get worse, as the elderly population increases. Currently, about 60% of our patients in this area are Medicare.

Doctors are easy targets for creeping bureaucracy. Most doctors simply don't have the time, the education, or the temperament for dealing with that crap. We have to hire people to do that for us. Of the 120 people that my partners and I employ, more than 40% are there solely to help unwind the incredible volume of paperwork necessary to get the reimbursement from third party payers necessary to provide the revenue that keeps the business afloat. We have far more coders and billing people than we have nurses and techs who actually deliver health care.

But I'm not worried. I have no doubt that it will all get much simpler once BHO's grand design unfolds.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

coz
11-09-2009, 04:06 PM
Of the 120 people that my partners and I employ, more than 40% are there solely to help unwind the incredible volume of paperwork necessary to get the reimbursement from third party payers necessary to provide the revenue that keeps the business afloat. We have far more coders and billing people than we have nurses and techs who actually deliver health care.

But I'm not worried. I have no doubt that it will all get much simpler once BHO's grand design unfolds.



So in other words.......your're letting other people do all the work while you goof off on TT? :confused: Is this part of your overhead? :D

bobx1
11-09-2009, 04:45 PM
njskier...I have two buddies that are Plastic Surgeons (and their group is on call 24x7) and they are happy to take care if issues like that (usually at their office - after hours) and do it for a lot less PLUS their scars are a lot smaller. Hopefully there will not be a next time but if so, get out the yellow pages and make a few calls before heading to the ER.

bigmac
11-09-2009, 04:56 PM
So in other words.......your're letting other people do all the work while you goof off on TT?


That would be great, but none of those people can generate any revenue. For me...no work = no money, and that in the face of fixed (and increasing) expenses.

bcampbe7
11-09-2009, 05:02 PM
That's what I was thinking. I can't believe the cost of health care, and hospitals around here are going broke? How?

Dealing with insurance companies can be a pain, but nothing like trying to get paid by the [insert name here]care programs.

Waiting 10 months to get paid is not unheard of. Not many businesses could go 10 months without getting paid.

JimN
11-09-2009, 05:16 PM
I've been practicing medicine since 1982. I'm not sure that there has been a discreet break point, rather it's been a continual evolution. If there has been one index event in the last 50 years, it certainly is likely to have been the creation of Medicare. As only the government can, the level of bureaucracy took a definite turn at that point and it has become increasingly complex. And it's getting worse, and will continue to get worse, as the elderly population increases. Currently, about 60% of our patients in this area are Medicare.

But I'm not worried. I have no doubt that it will all get much simpler once BHO's grand design unfolds.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure the paperwork nightmare began when the glut of lawyers came and everyone decided that if ANYTHING goes wrong, someone's gonna pay big money.

Is the new form going to be like the two-line IRS tax form?

Line 1- What is your adjusted gross income for last year?
Line 2- Send it to the IRS.

Jorski
11-09-2009, 05:37 PM
If you want to contribute something helpful, go ahead but if you want to keep dumping on us and our system, piss off.

Go back and re-read this thread and see who is "dumping on" who's system. Further, I have heard countless rants on this very board about the superiority of your market based system and how that makes it more efficient.

Then, if I point out the irony that the very things that you say your system should prevent in fact occur (actually it's you guys that point it out); well, then you get all pissy.

Think about it for a minute. You have tons of bureaucracy in your system in dealing with insurance companies and the legal system, yet, out of the other side of your mouth you will scream from the roof tops that a single payer system can't possibly function.

Anywho, doesn't matter about the size of the two countries; similar systems function all over the western world.

Not that it matters, but either your system should be acknowledged for its' strengths and its' flaws or why bother discussing it at all?

Thrall
11-09-2009, 05:43 PM
It probably was only a $115 visit, but you have insurance and someone has to pay for the last 10 people with no insurance that brought their kids to the ER for a runny nose!

TX.X-30 fan
11-09-2009, 06:02 PM
Go back and re-read this thread and see who is "dumping on" who's system. Further, I have heard countless rants on this very board about the superiority of your market based system and how that makes it more efficient.

Then, if I point out the irony that the very things that you say your system should prevent in fact occur (actually it's you guys that point it out); well, then you get all pissy.

Think about it for a minute. You have tons of bureaucracy in your system in dealing with insurance companies and the legal system, yet, out of the other side of your mouth you will scream from the roof tops that a single payer system can't possibly function.

Anywho, doesn't matter about the size of the two countries; similar systems function all over the western world.

Not that it matters, but either your system should be acknowledged for its' strengths and its' flaws or why bother discussing it at all?




What does govt do better than the private sector.................... take any government? I asked and gave examples of the abomination of various activities govt here tries to do and never got one example of what govt does better.


I f we plan to pull the plug an granny, lets get it out in the open now. I still say the world would rather be sick here than Canada or great Britain.

Jorski
11-09-2009, 06:46 PM
If we plan to pull the plug an granny, lets get it out in the open now. I still say the world would rather be sick here than Canada or great Britain.

I forgot...we kill grandparents up here in Canada.

Actually we make a nice day out of it. A family time, have a bit of a picnic. We try to honour grandma's heritage while we are at it...you know, if you're nordic, we send you out to sea on a boat etc.

So strange that we have a long average lifespan in Canada, even though we kill the old people.

Weird!:confused:

Skipper
11-09-2009, 06:50 PM
It probably was only a $115 visit, but you have insurance and someone has to pay for the last 10 people with no insurance that brought their kids to the ER for a runny nose!

That probably explains it!

Jorski
11-09-2009, 06:50 PM
What does govt do better than the private sector.................... take any government?

Things that the private sector won't do. You might like parks, and going to the library. I know you like to point out what is wrong with things Tx:x-30, but, there are many parts of education that the private sector is simply unwilling to do. Same thing with large portions of medical care, firefighters, police, the forst service, public transportation, sewage treatment etc.

You should be sick in whatever country you wish to be sick in, but, honestly why make so much stuff up about other systems?

Skipper
11-09-2009, 07:01 PM
It goes both ways. His system (Canadian) was dumped on rather unfairly....
(gross exagerations....)

It was not a "gross exaggeration". I have been in the military for the last 14 years. My family is subject to government run health care. I described a typical visit to a military hospital for a family member. Probably exaggerated, a little bit, but who really gives a care.

If you want to hear about some really crappy government run health care, ask a soldier. My buddy died from cancer because for six months of visits to the aid station nobody ever did anything but prescribe Ibuprofin for knee pain. A visit to a civilian ER revealed that he had bone cancer. Four months later, he was dead.

woftam
11-09-2009, 07:47 PM
It was not a "gross exaggeration". I have been in the military for the last 14 years. My family is subject to government run health care. I described a typical visit to a military hospital for a family member. Probably exaggerated, a little bit, but who really gives a care.

If you want to hear about some really crappy government run health care, ask a soldier. My buddy died from cancer because for six months of visits to the aid station nobody ever did anything but prescribe Ibuprofin for knee pain. A visit to a civilian ER revealed that he had bone cancer. Four months later, he was dead.

The gross exaggerations I wrote about were contained in a post I assumed were attacking the Canadian public health care system. Imagine my embarrassment that I wasn’t intuitive enough to be able to understand your post was referring to U.S. military care, or lack thereof.

Bad stuff happens in both kinds of systems. Your friend died due to lack of proper care from a government run system. That’s terrible. My sister lived a short life due to not being correctly diagnosed with leukemia due to a simple botched blood test and her pediatrician ignoring here symptoms and attributing them to being attention seeking during one of many visits. This was in a private system with a doctor with a good reputation and a lab without reports of mismanagement or a history of botched tests. Sensing something wasn’t right, my parents took her to Johns Hopkins where she was correctly diagnosed, but too late to do much good. That’s terrible too

Jorski
11-09-2009, 07:52 PM
The way the Canadian health care system has been characterized on this board has been more than a gross exaggeration; it has been laughable.

Skipper, what does your friend's story about substandard care by your military have to do with health care in Canada, or Germany or France or...

Woftam...the post that you referred to (Jimn's post telling me to "piss off") was attacking the Canadian system; not the US military health care system. Skipper is somehow equating his friend's US military health care error with all government systems. Sad to say thatmistakes happen in ALL systems.

Skipper
11-09-2009, 08:25 PM
The correlation is simple. The military health care system is government run health care. That's okay, find out for yourselves thanks to that female dog Pelosi and Hussain. Unless you live in Canada. Then you can just sit back and chuckle.

bbymgr
11-09-2009, 08:33 PM
My experiences with the Military Health Care System have all been positive. No matter what the system.......you are going to have positive stories and negative stories.

shepherd
11-10-2009, 10:45 AM
My buddy died from cancer because for six months of visits to the aid station nobody ever did anything but prescribe Ibuprofin for knee pain. A visit to a civilian ER revealed that he had bone cancer. Four months later, he was dead.


Oh ****. My knee has been sore lately...

shepherd
11-10-2009, 10:46 AM
What does govt do better than the private sector.................... take any government?

Design and build warships.

Dbuck
11-10-2009, 12:13 PM
Here's the breakdown:

Level 3 (whatever that means) $2067
Wound closure simple $1125
Dermabond $304

Total $3,496.00

Seems reasonable to me

Actually, if it includes the ER physician component, it is not that bad. If the ER physician is an additional charge, then it would be a little pricey for the deep south where I am; maybe not for NJ if you are in an urban area.

First off as someone else mentioned, the hospital charge has little or no relationship to what they actually get paid. Governmental payors TELL the hospital what they will pay, and commercial or employer paid plans usually negotiate for significant discounts. The published bill however, has to be the same for all patients if the facility accepts Medicare.

Secondly, if you divide all the costs of the facility by all the patients seen, that $3,400 charge is likely less than cost. I realize that is lumping heart transplants in with patients who got a band aid, but I am illustrating that it costs a lot to run a hospital on a daily basis. Obviously, your stay cost less than 3,400. There was no itemized charge on your bill for nursing care at 25-35/hour plus benefits, for the monthly utility bill that would take your breath, or for depreciation on a 2 million dollar MRI that has a useful life of 5 years.

Not preaching at you, just explaining.

TX.X-30 fan
11-10-2009, 12:58 PM
Things that the private sector won't do. You might like parks, and going to the library. I know you like to point out what is wrong with things Tx:x-30, but, there are many parts of education that the private sector is simply unwilling to do. Same thing with large portions of medical care, firefighters, police, the forst service, public transportation, sewage treatment etc.

You should be sick in whatever country you wish to be sick in, but, honestly why make so much stuff up about other systems?




I disagree with all of those, I think Carnage got the whole library thing going. Public transportation........................ ???? Really????????? You must be joking. Public trans is one of the most inefficient



OK I'm in a good mood here is a freebee............... Air traffic control. :D

TX.X-30 fan
11-10-2009, 12:59 PM
Design and build warships.




Do they do that or private contractors??

Jorski
11-10-2009, 01:49 PM
Of course you would privatize the army, navy and marines???

I think the thing that gets missed is that in many areas you need both piblic and private participation.

There is no doubt that at the low volume/high end of services such as education and medicine that private providers deliver an excellent product. They don't do so well at the high volume/low end of services where margins are thin or non-existant.

Often the public sector is required to fill in where the private sector is disinterested in providing these sevices.

My contention in education would be that the system is better in total, with both the private system and the public system in place. Further that it would be worse off without either one. It makes little difference to this argument that a private school is better than a public school if your goal is education for all.

Monte
11-10-2009, 02:22 PM
When government gets involved (has a hand in the cookie jar) the cost WILL rise. It is that simple. We already pay administrative costs right? OK now not only will there be the usual admin charges, now we will have created an entire govermnet entity to administer, administration.

I cannot understand Jorski, what is your dog in this fight? Why do you care what the US does? You live in Canada and love your system. GREAT! Stay there and enjoy it. I am beginning to believe it is more of a situation where misery loves company...

shepherd
11-10-2009, 02:42 PM
Do they do that or private contractors??

Private contractors typically do that at the direction and under the supervision of the government. They tried it the other way recently, but it didn't work out too good (Littoral Combat Ship).

bigmac
11-10-2009, 02:45 PM
I cannot understand Jorski, what is your dog in this fight? Why do you care what the US does? You live in Canada and love your system. GREAT! Stay there and enjoy it. I am beginning to believe it is more of a situation where misery loves company...Jorski can't resist a thread about US health care. I've always been puzzled by that too. His contributions and observations would be more relevant if a single-payer system were on the table here in the US, but it's not.

Of course, I'm always puzzled too by the BTFS that want to post their current weather everytime a northerner asks a question about winterizing. I guess it's human nature for people to just want to tout what they believe to be the superiority of their own situation.

Jorski
11-10-2009, 02:47 PM
I cannot understand Jorski, what is your dog in this fight? Why do you care what the US does? You live in Canada and love your system. GREAT! Stay there and enjoy it. I am beginning to believe it is more of a situation where misery loves company...

I don't have a dog in this fight, other than enjoying the debate. Really, the only things that I pointed out, were when our system was portrayed incorrectly; and that certainly was the case.

I can honestly tell you that no one pulled the plug on my grandmothers;)

Bigmac...I have said many times that your system would never look like ours anyhow. That's why I always find it so strange that you and many others continually (and often innaccurately) point to our system as the reason that you are against changes in your system. It's just as logical to say:

His contributions and observations would be more relevant if a single-payer system were on the table here in the US, but it's not.

as it is to say: pointing out flaws in the Canadian health care system would be more relevant if a single-payer system were on the table here in the US, but it's not.

shepherd
11-10-2009, 02:48 PM
It's 75 degrees today, the lake is at 68 degrees, and the surf is up! :D

bigmac
11-10-2009, 03:03 PM
Bigmac...I have said many times that your system would never look like ours anyhow. That's why I always find it so strange that you and many others continually (and often innaccurately) point to our system as the reason that you are against changes in your system.

Speaking for myself, I'm not resistant to changes in our health care system. I'm resistant to changes in our health care system that don't make sense, and any modeling of a US system that has any basis in Canada's falls into that category IMHO.

JimN
11-10-2009, 03:11 PM
Design and build warships.

They contract the hardware to private companies. The military just specs it out and pays them for it.

JimN
11-10-2009, 03:20 PM
Of course you would privatize the army, navy and marines???

I think the thing that gets missed is that in many areas you need both piblic and private participation.

There is no doubt that at the low volume/high end of services such as education and medicine that private delivers an excellent product. They don't do so well at the high volume/low end of services where margins are thin or non-existant.

Often the public sector is required to fill in where the private sector is disinterested in providing these sevices.

My contention in education would be that the system is better in total, with both the private system and the public system in place. Further that it would be worse off without either one. It makes little difference to this argument that a private school is better than a public school if your goal is education for all.

Military is one of the things our Federal government is supposed to do for the whole country- being involved in every aspect of our daily lives is not. They want to tell us what we can have, where to get it and what the price will be, after regulating the manufacturers into making an inferior product that has to conform to certain requirements and then tell the manufacturers how much to pay their executives. The bailouts are at taxpayer expense and only about 55% of the adult population pays taxes, so the other 45% benefits at someone elses' expense.

RE: education- I don't care so much if it's public AND private but I would like the public school systems to be more responsive to what interests the kids. Bored students seldom try hard and that means they learn little of what is presented. They tend to have discipline problems and that doesn't bode well for their future. Teachers who just "put in their time until retirement or something better comes along" need to be weeded out, too.

Jerseydave
11-10-2009, 04:38 PM
Here's the breakdown:

Level 3 (whatever that means) $2067
Wound closure simple $1125
Dermabond $304

Total $3,496.00

Seems reasonable to me

Actually, if it includes the ER physician component, it is not that bad. If the ER physician is an additional charge, then it would be a little pricey for the deep south where I am; maybe not for NJ if you are in an urban area.

First off as someone else mentioned, the hospital charge has little or no relationship to what they actually get paid. Governmental payors TELL the hospital what they will pay, and commercial or employer paid plans usually negotiate for significant discounts. The published bill however, has to be the same for all patients if the facility accepts Medicare.

Secondly, if you divide all the costs of the facility by all the patients seen, that $3,400 charge is likely less than cost. I realize that is lumping heart transplants in with patients who got a band aid, but I am illustrating that it costs a lot to run a hospital on a daily basis. Obviously, your stay cost less than 3,400. There was no itemized charge on your bill for nursing care at 25-35/hour plus benefits, for the monthly utility bill that would take your breath, or for depreciation on a 2 million dollar MRI that has a useful life of 5 years.

Not preaching at you, just explaining.

Thanks Dbuck for the explaination. Maybe the charge is not as far out in left field as I thought. Thank god for insurance though.

Dbuck
11-10-2009, 04:51 PM
Thank god for insurance though


Amen to that!

TX.X-30 fan
11-10-2009, 05:23 PM
Of course you would privatize the army, navy and marines???

I think the thing that gets missed is that in many areas you need both piblic and private participation.

There is no doubt that at the low volume/high end of services such as education and medicine that private delivers an excellent product. They don't do so well at the high volume/low end of services where margins are thin or non-existant.

Often the public sector is required to fill in where the private sector is disinterested in providing these sevices.

My contention in education would be that the system is better in total, with both the private system and the public system in place. Further that it would be worse off without either one. It makes little difference to this argument that a private school is better than a public school if your goal is education for all.





I WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK AND ALLOW THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO DO WHAT IS SPECIFIACLLY SET FORTH IN THE CONSTITUTION, and have the states do all the rest as was intended. Doctors nurses and health care in a local concern not the federal govt.

Our country was founded with the idea of a limited federal govt., the states granted these limited powers to the federal govt, because they had just left a system of large govt and limited freedoms.

Canada is I'm sure a wonderful place, its not the US we are constitutionally different, and all I want to see are those bound to follow the constitution by oath do just that.

I need a beer................. :D

Jorski
11-10-2009, 08:36 PM
^^^we do like beer in Canada...tell 'em andre!

TX.X-30 fan
11-10-2009, 08:55 PM
We agree ........................ beer=good

pram
11-10-2009, 09:35 PM
whiskey is better though

shepherd
11-10-2009, 11:13 PM
They contract the hardware to private companies. The military just specs it out and pays them for it.

Right. The Navy "specs it out." In other words they design it. And any private shipyard that is building our major combatants has a SUPSHIP office that monitors everything the shipbuilder does every step of the way to make sure they build it right.

shepherd
11-10-2009, 11:14 PM
whiskey is better though

Whiskey causes health problems. Unless used for medicinal purposes of course...

Beer is nutritious.

Maristar210
11-10-2009, 11:55 PM
Please god let me be a mod on here so I can ban Jorski.

The garbage ewe spew makes me want to vomit violently.

I pray to god that you meet your maker and your membership is revoked.

I only fear and despise the devil, more than you.

bbymgr
11-11-2009, 04:11 AM
Please god let me be a mod on here so I can ban Jorski.

The garbage ewe spew makes me want to vomit violently.

I pray to god that you meet your maker and your membership is revoked.

I only fear and despise the devil, more than you.


Are you serious?

JimN
11-11-2009, 08:05 AM
Whiskey causes health problems. Unless used for medicinal purposes of course...

Beer is nutritious.

Beer is cereal in a bottle. Nothing like a big bowl of Cap'n Crunch and Old Style. Mmmm!.

Jorski
11-11-2009, 10:53 AM
Please god let me be a mod on here so I can ban Jorski.

The garbage ewe spew makes me want to vomit violently.

I pray to god that you meet your maker and your membership is revoked.

I only fear and despise the devil, more than you.


Maristar210...you need psychiatric help. Seriously you do.

Jesus_Freak
11-11-2009, 01:05 PM
Of course you would privatize the army, navy and marines???

I think the thing that gets missed is that in many areas you need both piblic and private participation.

There is no doubt that at the low volume/high end of services such as education and medicine that private providers deliver an excellent product. They don't do so well at the high volume/low end of services where margins are thin or non-existant.

Often the public sector is required to fill in where the private sector is disinterested in providing these sevices.

My contention in education would be that the system is better in total, with both the private system and the public system in place. Further that it would be worse off without either one. It makes little difference to this argument that a private school is better than a public school if your goal is education for all.

I would not argue that we need zero governmental participation, but with any governmental endeavor there is no inherent feedback loop. There is no drive to 1) please the "customer" or 2) control costs. As a result, they can do x, but probably not efficiently.

TX.X-30 fan
11-11-2009, 04:38 PM
Maristar210...you need psychiatric help. Seriously you do.




I have been doing some free-lance, internet based counseling with 210 for some time now, and I'm really seeing vast improvement. :)

The part about meeting your maker can be construed as a wish from 210 that you have a pleasant afterlife. :D

bbymgr
11-11-2009, 11:06 PM
I have been doing some free-lance, internet based counseling with 210 for some time now, and I'm really seeing vast improvement. :)

The part about meeting your maker can be construed as a wish from 210 that you have a pleasant afterlife. :D

That is a bunch of BS. He made the comment TX..............let him stand behind it.

Monte
11-12-2009, 08:32 AM
It has gotten cold outside. Hasn't it?

Maristar210
11-12-2009, 09:36 AM
Maristar210...you need psychiatric help. Seriously you do.

Thanks, that means a great deal coming from you

Maristar210
11-12-2009, 09:39 AM
That is a bunch of BS. He made the comment TX..............let him stand behind it.

What I meant Best Buy is that I hope one day he understands what he really says is crap. Not religous intentions...

Is that okay or are you going to question that too?