Advice on Graduating out of a rear toe plate

[Upper Michigan Prostar190]

I have always used a rear toe plate ski as I was always a heavier skier and could never take off on one ski. Well, if you recall when I introduced myself here, I said that I lost 125 lbs. I am now 185 lbs and my summer goal is to be able to do deep water starts on one ski. Its a hassle to use a drop ski, and I am really wanting to go to a double high wrap contact binding on my O'brien siege. I assume double full bindings must be much more stable and comfortable to ski on. there must be a reason advance skiers use them!!! :cool: So I am all ears on this one people. I welcome any and all advice and input. AM I still too heavy to do a deep water start on one ski? or should I be able to do it? any advice on technique or tips on how to do it? :) :confused:

Please help, Thanks!!!!

[6ballsisall]

Wow! Kudos on the weight loss, that took some work and perserverance! :worthy: You weigh what I weigh now and I have no problems doing 2 in starts even behind my families 180hp I/O. These starts IMO really arent' that much different. Try using your current ski with back toe plate and start with your rear foot in the toe plate. If you have problems balancing the ski on the way up you could buy one of those Deep V handles that hold your ski straight on the way up and use it as a training device.

[MarkP]

Find someone willing to keep coming around and giving you another go after go after go. That 190 will pick you up just fine. Its just like riding a bicycle. Once you got it, you got it..

[BriEOD]

Keep that ski straight and put the weight on the back foot. They make training bridles that you slip over the ski to keep it straight. The thing people struggle with the most I've seen is keeping the ski straight.

[Flatwaterfooter]

I like to angle my ski a little forward so that it planes quicker. Make sure you do not keep the ski vertical to the water you just plow and it is tough to hold on to handle. When you start to get tired stop trying for a while you will only pick up bad habits and hurt yourself. Also be ready for a lot of water in your face

[Granite_33]

I am 6', 220. I was able to deepwater start behind my inlaws righteous Viking Deck boat.......(once we re-propped it for a bit better low end pull :D ) 4cyl. 135HP

At 185 if you cannot deepwater start, it has more to do with form and reps than weight. Repetitions will have a positive effect, so keep at it. It will come. Keep the ski straight.......

I remember dropping for about 2 summers and I know it was because I did not have the experience at deepwater starts that I needed, and dragging behind the deckboat definitely took its toll. Going to the MC popped me out of the water. At 185 you are a lightweight.

It can take a while.............And I can remember the first time I made it up on one. Great feeling, good luck :headbang:

[wakesport]

I weigh about as much as you and have no problem getting up in a double boot.

For left foot forawrd have the rope on the right side of the ski with your right hand on top.

Elbows close to the body with arms bent.

Bring your knees up close to your arms.

Stay crunched until you start to plane off.

If you are wearing a wet suit you need to stay crunched longer. The drag of the suit makes it harder to get up.

[LakePirate]

If you don't have an easy up rope then put the rope on the opposite side of the ski of your front foot... i.e. if you are right foot forward then put the rope on the left side.

Man if you are still to heavy to get up from a deep water start I am in serious trouble I got you by 35 lbs. HIT IT!!!

[Upper Michigan Prostar190]

OK, so are there any excercises I should do to help prevent pulled muscles and improve my chances?

How about the boat? whats the best way to take off? Full throttle? or slower take off?

Obviously I have to keep the ski straight. SO I read to keep some weight on my rear foot, and someone said not to keep the ski vertical. so any details here??

How bout the knees? straight, or bent?

Back arched or straight?

SOrry if these seem like dumb questions ,but I have tried this and failed alot before, so I want get as much good advice as I can before I give it a try with my "new" body.

Any more ideas? :confused:

[Brent]

If you have a boom , use it! first with hands on the boom to get a feel of what it is like , second with the 5ft extension (the ski handle). After you are able to get up that way go behind the boat with the full length of rope or if you have a tower it will help a little (don't use the tower to ski normally thou, it not made for that)!

Toe or highwrap is a personal preferance , Andy Mapple is toe wrap, Chris Parrish is double highwrap. A couple world records there!

[redmike]

i dropped for a couple of years due to lack of exp., then, i got a good deal on a connely shadow with double hi wraps; first time out, popped up with no trouble! have tried different guys skis with toe hoops since. but still like the doubles best :twocents:

[east tx skier]

I'm at 170 now, but could do deep water starts when I was closer to 200 lbs.

Patience is the key. You're not trying to stand up.

1. Knees bent. You want them pulled into your chest.
2. Arms Straight
3. Ski Tip up. Just make sure it stays out of the water. A lot of time, when people don't get up it's because as soon as they say "hit it," that ski tip drops. This is where those deep-vee handles really help out.
4. Let the boat pull you up. You gotta be patient and let the ski boat do the work. When you're up on that ski, you'll know it. Until then, just keep doing 1 through 3.

Just remember, knees bent, arms straight, ski tip up, let the boat pull you out of the water.

[Granite_33]

Excercises........
Arms, upper and lower back, definitely. Stretching's good too. Be sure the lower back and hammys are loosened.

As for throttle.... Idle forward, give it a bit of gas so you can feel the drag and control yourself in it. Then HIT IT!!!!!

Bend the knees!!!!!!!(I see a hyperextension coming on otherwise)

You can start with your back straight, but its going to bend due to the pull.


I'm not sure about putting too much weight on the rear, though. My wife learned to slalom at about 10 and she learned using a boot and RTP. She actually dragged the rear foot in the water and used it to help guide herself.......so that tells you how much pressure "needs" to be put on the RTP.
:wavey:

[LakePirate]

Hey ETS if you still have that 2 handle rope you could send it over to him.

[Upper Michigan Prostar190]

Andy Mapple uses a rear toe plate...?? No $hit?? :confused: WOW, I never knew that. so it must be subject to personal style then I guess. Interesting.

Thanks to all that posted!!! :D I will be trying it and I will let you all know how it goes.

Thanks again!!!

[east tx skier]

Hey ETS if you still have that 2 handle rope you could send it over to him.

Sorry, wasn't mine to begin with. I didn't grow up with boats and skis. Had to mooch!

[east tx skier]

Andy Mapple uses a rear toe plate...?? No $hit?? :confused: WOW, I never knew that. so it must be subject to personal style then I guess. Interesting.

Thanks to all that posted!!! :D I will be trying it and I will let you all know how it goes.

Thanks again!!!

Yeah, that guy that used to hold the world record! ;)

But seriously, you might find you like it better or you might not. Andre's tried and tried, but, last I checked, keeps going back to the rtp. Preference issue for sure.

[parks_jr_55]

I am 6'3"-200 lbs. and have no trouble getting up.

I have not skiied very much on a double boot but when i used a rear toe plate, i would have it in. The only advice i can offer is keep your weight over the ski because once you throw off your balance, its a roller coaster trying to get up --or at least for me it is--

[Thrall]

Last thing you need is more advice, but myself at 6-1 and 210lbs, I can deepwater start easily, so your weight is no problem.
Doug's 1-3 list is right on. You'll find yourself trying to extend too soon and that will hamper getting up. Keep crouched up,knees tight to chest until you'er totally out of the water. You'll know when to stand up.
Some people drag their rear foot/leg. Doesn't work for me. I keep both feet in, even w/ a RTP.
You don't need full throttle to get up. After you're comfortable w/ the process you can get up "quicker."
A trainer rope, deep V will help steady you as well.

[DanC]

Along with the great advice above
- Keep your knees together. Some people hear "bend your knees" and forget to keep the knees TOGETHER, thus creating a great big sea anchor in their crotch. Folks in the boat can't see if you are letting your back foot's knee swing out.
- For the first 2 seconds, slower is better, no matter how many people tell you differently. Water sticks to you and it helps to get the water around your body moving with you before the driver hammers the throttle and breaks you loose.

There are as many different ways to do this as there are types of golf swings. Some people stomp on the back foot and almost pop straight up. Usually the lighter, stronger folks. Others lean over the front foot (similar to those who drag their rear foot) to plane faster. Usually the larger folks or those with less horsepower.
:twocents:

[MarkP]

Don’t we have a local chapter of Team Talk up in Michigan that we could send over to his lake to get him up and runnin??

[BriEOD]

Along with the great advice above
- Keep your knees together. Some people hear "bend your knees" and forget to keep the knees TOGETHER, thus creating a great big sea anchor in their crotch. Folks in the boat can't see if you are letting your back foot's knee swing out.

Some people stomp on the back foot and almost pop straight up.

Dan has an excellent point here. A good was to visualize this is to pretend your back knee has to push your front knee forward. Try and stay relaxed until the slack is out and then get the ski straight and go.

I supposed I'm a lighter/stronger stlye. I'm about 5'10 185. I basically sit on my back foot and come right up. Becareful trying to pop up to soon or you'll come right over the front of the ski.

[LakePirate]

2 things
one make sure you are not wearing a bathing suit that acts like a parachute....not good on junior and the twins

two if you want to try and stall the boat drop down on your back foot. It it's not an MC you have a chance at stalling it out. :D

[Dan K]

He's in da U.P. probably could find some of the Wisconsin folk to help him as well. I'm in the Norther Lower this weekend if he wants to stop by, I gaurantee I'll get him up, My fovorite thing to do is get kid's up for the first time. They never forget it.

[MarkP]

Did ya hear that upper Michigan??? Dan K, don’t forget the camera..

[mgurley]

I am 6'3 265 and I am able to do deep water starts behind my buddy's 89 190. Which he just sold yesterday :( . We have got many people up for their first time using a Mid ski (sometime's on the boom first) then letting them graduate to a smaller ski.

[Upper Michigan Prostar190]

Mucho thanks for all the great advice. I can see where I was making some erros before. The concept of starting slow before you nail it seems to be smart, I never did that. I always tried to stand up too soon I think too. I think with being armed with this information, I will be much more able to do it. I do appreciate Dan K offering to help me. :D Problem is, I am about 4 hrs from the Mackinac Bridge before I even start going south, so I am most likely about 6 hours from anywhere in the northern lower. But I appreciate the thought! I am going to give this a try here soon.

Thanks again for all the advice and I welcome any other advice anyone has. as one of you said, its like a golf swing, there are alot of ways to do it, but some work better for certain people. SO I just may need to find the combination that works for me. :)

[BrianM]

One thing we used to do when teaching a deep water start from someone that was used to dropping a ski is what we call sinking. Get up and drop or get up with your foot out. Once you are skiing with your foot in the plate have your driver slow down and sink you a bit and then pull you back up to speed. Do this several times having the driver slow down even more and sinking you deeper into the water. We used to get the kids to do this until you had the boat at near idle speed then pulled them back out of the hole. If you can get down progressively slower when you try a full deep water start with your foot in it should be a piece of cake.

Lots of other good advice above just thought I would give you a stepping stone approach.

[MarkP]

I have always used a rear toe plate ski as I was always a heavier skier and could never take off on one ski. Well, if you recall when I introduced myself here, I said that I lost 125 lbs. I am now 185 lbs and my summer goal is to be able to do deep water starts on one ski. Its a hassle to use a drop ski, and I am really wanting to go to a double high wrap contact binding on my O'brien siege. I assume double full bindings must be much more stable and comfortable to ski on. there must be a reason advance skiers use them!!! So I am all ears on this one people. I welcome any and all advice and input. AM I still too heavy to do a deep water start on one ski? or should I be able to do it? any advice on technique or tips on how to do it?

Please help, Thanks!!!!
UMP

One more thing, Out of a Large Medium or Small, you are now a Medium.:cool: Start thinking like it. You are not too heavy!! Congrats on that.:toast:

And I think soon we will be saying congrats on the deepwater starts:cool:

[jclose8]

I'm in the Michigan chapter of Team Talk....... C'mon over to Marquette this weekend and I'll get ya up and runnin'

[east tx skier]

I supposed I'm a lighter/stronger stlye. I'm about 5'10 185. I basically sit on my back foot and come right up. Becareful trying to pop up to soon or you'll come right over the front of the ski.

I think once you get really comfortable with deep water starts, you realize how to make the ski do what it needs to do right away. I do the same thing you do, Brian. Once I know the ski's under me and I'm moving, I stomp the tail and pop right up.

When I was learning though, I was on the receiving end of the 4 part instructional chant referenced above. Just a real easy thing to remember when you're frustrated and sitting in the water after your fifteenth lake guzzle trying to get up.

The knees together thing is pretty key (especially us guys). Eliminating very specific drag elements is the key to comfort. :banana:

What's really interesting is that while everyone will tell you how to get up, nobody ever mentions what you're supposed to do once you're up. That's my favorite thing to watch. They finally get up on long line and then, suddenly, they have this look of, "Oh crap, now what am I supposed to do." Then they swerve, left, then right, then left, then fall. The second time up, it usually takes pretty easily.