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stevo137
08-17-2004, 06:45 PM
Does anyone like the American made metal wagons? Most of us have probably had one in our lifetime. If you want an American made unit, you had better buy it soon. They will not produce them here in Chicago again. They will cease operations in Sept. and have them made in China! :mad:
They have been a good customer of mine and I hate to see this business go but what can you do? 85% of all toys are made in China.
OBTW, if anyone has a Radio Flyer sled they could part with let me know.

MarkP
08-17-2004, 09:25 PM
Boy Stevo I had some good times on one of those when I was a kid. When I was a YOUNGER kid..

stevo137
08-17-2004, 09:55 PM
I keep telling my kids how great that sled was. I need to get one to prove it to them. You need to be creative when you have cabin fever during the dog days of winter. Another great thing about having kids, even though you are grown, you can still have some fun like when you were a kid once in awhile and not look too silly doing it! (as long as you are with the kids!) You may think I'm crazy but I can't find one of those sleds anywhere including Ebay.

lakes Rick
08-18-2004, 11:36 AM
Just a couple more nukes in 45 and we wouldn't be having these problems.....

Knoxes
08-18-2004, 12:09 PM
Rick, I really don't find that funny at all.

lakes Rick
08-18-2004, 04:10 PM
Your sure welcome to your opinion...

Knoxes
08-18-2004, 04:18 PM
So you hate Asian people and you'd prefer them dead?

H20skeefreek
08-18-2004, 04:21 PM
Rick, while extinguishing human lives isn't funny, may I point out that your theory is wrong anyway?

Our government would have still paid to rebuild the country, and allowed an unequal balance of trade, regardless of how many implements of Mass Destruction we used.

lakes Rick
08-18-2004, 06:51 PM
So you hate Asian people and you'd prefer them dead?

Is this what I said??

lakes Rick
08-18-2004, 06:53 PM
Rick, while extinguishing human lives isn't funny, may I point out that your theory is wrong anyway?

Our government would have still paid to rebuild the country, and allowed an unequal balance of trade, regardless of how many implements of Mass Destruction we used.

You make a good point here.. My comments are always Economically directed..

bradamerry
08-18-2004, 07:22 PM
Ok guys, we do have alot of American companies leaving the US and I believe that was Rick's point. It has nothing to do with any Asian people today, but we did lose alot of good men in WW2. My great uncle spent 3 yrs. in a Jap prison camp and help build that damn railroad. And please remember, THEY DID START IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Knoxes
08-18-2004, 08:11 PM
Is this what I said??

Well, yeah. Rick, it's easy to be passe and make idle comments, but what you've posted is that two nuclear bombs wasn't enough, even though it killed over 200,000 people and stopped the war. Maybe you should clarify.

Brad - the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor in retaliation for trade sanctions imposed by Roosevelt, and fiscal and military support to China to fight the Japanese, among other things. A few months prior to the attack, he froze of all Japan's assets in the US, which stopped their oil supply. Please understand that I'm not justifying the attack (that would be ridiculous), but I am pointing out that it wasn't completely unprovoked. This really isn't any different from our action against Iraq in response to the Kuwait invasion. Do you really think the administration gave a crap about the Kuwati's? Our oil supply was at risk and we took action.


<thinking.... how am I gonna work Hasselhof into this...>

bradamerry
08-18-2004, 08:36 PM
I work in the oilfield and don't believe we have to have their oil. It would mean the US drilling companies would have to open alot of new areas, but the government knows they are there. Another countries oil problems are their problems, not ours. Not a good reason to start a war. Maybe they should have kept their assests in Japan. The Japs boomed Pearl Harbor to cripple the US navy, so they could take over the Far East. And the Carriers were out to sea and that blow their plans. War is never good and the effects last a lifetime, but Rick was talking about companies leaving the US and nobody wants people to die.

Knoxes
08-18-2004, 09:21 PM
But what he said was:

Just a couple more nukes in 45 and we wouldn't be having these problems.....


Now, maybe I'm wrong, but what can that mean other than: If we had continued to drop nuclear bombs on Japan in 1945, we would have completely destroyed everyone and we wouldn't be losing jobs to Japan because there wouldn't be any Japanese there to take our jobs. Maybe he was just stating it as fact, in which case, he's quite right, but we'd still be losing jobs to Malaysia, China, Indonesia, Korea, India, Pakistan, etc.... So the elimination of one country is quite inconsequential. Maybe it was regret, I don't know.

Regarding the US natural resources, I've heard, in casual conversation, the same thing, but I wonder if we could be self-sufficient. Surely it would take some fairly drastic measures that the general population wouldn't find too agreeable. Frankly, if we're still talking about jobs, I think we have the intelligence, resources and ingenuity to whip about anybody's *** in the proper markets - one of which is development of better, more efficient and renewable energy sources.

lakes Rick
08-18-2004, 09:50 PM
Toss out a little bait and you usually can hook a large mouth bass or carp......

JimN
08-18-2004, 10:03 PM
Japan was in cahoots with Germany and Italy in '39 and they were already duking it out with China in about the same time period, and that was a big factor in the trade sanctions against them.

One of the first "efficiency experts" in the US tried to talk to the Big 3 and a lot of other companies about the benefits of analysing their manufacturing processes. Couldn't get arrested. He went to Japan and they listened, big time. Then they started kicking our butts in a lot of ways, mostly quality. It took a long time to catch up to them, but the car industry has come a long way here. One thing auto makers look at is how many hours a car is in the shop in the first 6-12 months. American cars are now very close to being even with the Japanese car makers, and I think I read that US are slightly better in that respect.

Knoxes
08-18-2004, 10:47 PM
Toss out a little bait and you usually can hook a large mouth bass or carp......


hehe. I've been called worse.... :D

JimN- I don't begrudge Roosevelt's sanctions, since Japan's expansion activities at the time were ambitious at best and downright hostile and greedy at worst. However, the US's occupation and involvement in the Phillipines surely was a big middle finger parked on their front lawn. Both countries took actions that were passively aggressive in their nature, which led to Japan taking the first strike initiative.

That's a good point, Jim. Generally I'd say we need to get out of industries where we're being handed our asses - like the auto industry 20 years ago. But, assuming you're right, there probably are more markets where we could be competitive with introductions of technologies or efficiencies. Some though, I'm afraid, we'll never be able to compete and we need to admit defeat, retrain workers and focus our efforts in another direction. I think any labor-intesive industry is a good example of this. We just can't compete with third-world wages. But they can't build a talking car, either, can they, Mr. Hasselhof.

<booyah!!>

bradamerry
08-18-2004, 11:13 PM
Knoxes, as for as the oil, we are just using the oversea oil and natural gas first, so we americans don't have to change our lifestyles! Oil campanies have not even start tipping into Alaska, Arkansas,Wyoming, North and South Dakota, and that is not talking about the resources off the west coast and mid-Atlantic. We can still get some from Mexico and Canada has some as well. As for the oil fields that drilling is ongoing, Texas, New Mexico, Louisiana, and the Gulf of Mexico, we can still go much deeper to find more. When I started my career 7 yrs. ago, an average well was about 9500' deep, now it is around 11,500'. We have alittle oil here. If we just used the resources under our land, the price at the pump might be around $6.00 a gallon on average. There are probably about 850 drilling rigs running in the US and Canada at this moment and there are still some where around 500 sitting in the grass(oilfield term) not drilling. The cost would be the problem, not the resources. Or that is what I understand?? As for WW2, I'm 30 yrs. old, what do I know.

stevo137
08-18-2004, 11:29 PM
Gent's,
I posted this as a silly reference to a toy! I face the "China" challenge almost every day in my industry. We are already seeing "some" products returning because of the poor quality that China produces but still many others are leaving.
As of now, the best that we can do as consumers, is to try to spend a little more and buy USA. I know it's tough in these economic times.
As hard as I try, I probably bought something that was made in China today.
(The plastic wagons are still made in Wisconsin!!!) If you are looking for a wagon, buy one of those. They even have a cooler!

H20skeefreek
08-19-2004, 05:44 AM
Japan was in cahoots with Germany and Italy in '39 and they were already duking it out with China in about the same time period, and that was a big factor in the trade sanctions against them.

One of the first "efficiency experts" in the US tried to talk to the Big 3 and a lot of other companies about the benefits of analysing their manufacturing processes. Couldn't get arrested. He went to Japan and they listened, big time. Then they started kicking our butts in a lot of ways, mostly quality. It took a long time to catch up to them, but the car industry has come a long way here. One thing auto makers look at is how many hours a car is in the shop in the first 6-12 months. American cars are now very close to being even with the Japanese car makers, and I think I read that US are slightly better in that respect.

Jim interesting comments. I've never heard anyone theorize that Edwards W. Demming was the cause of WW2.

BriEOD
08-19-2004, 08:43 AM
:rolleyes:

JimN
08-19-2004, 10:03 AM
How did I theorize that he was the cause of WWII? Have you ever heard of Japanese products from the 1940's being in competition with American products or that American companies were suffering from the competition? The two paragraphs in my last post had nothing to do with each other, aside from Japan being mentioned in both.

Knoxes- I can't agree that we should get out of industries where we are having our asses handed to us, when it's because of inefficiency, greed and arrogance, like the auto industry in the 1970's. Those can be changed. When we can't come close in terms of labor costs, some of those jobs can be subbed out, but if there's going to be a big drop in the quality of materials, workmanship and end-product, it's justified from an accounting standpoint, but after a while the market will decide whether the products of reduced quality will be accepted in the long-term. Some people don't care how good it is, as long as it's cheap. Some people want the quality, even if it costs more. That won't change. Competition is vital to a free market economy but countries dumping their products elsewhere because they pay almost nothing in wages is hardly a good thing. If Slick Willie hadn't given China preferred nation status(even though the government still has a long way to go in the way they treat the people there), there wouldn't have been such a shift in manufacturing in the past few years.

One thing I have heard over the years that really bothers me is union members saying that we should all "Buy American" and then turn around and complain about how much everything costs. A lot of union workers make more in an hour than workers in a lot of countries make in a day, sometimes a week. Can't have it both ways. When someone makes $20 an hour sweeping floors in a factory or can't be fired for the reasons most people would be shoved out the door at their job(with a vapor trail coming out of their butt), just because they belong to a union, the cost of goods goes up. If any of you are in a union, that's nice for you, but I don't think anyone can justify making high wages and complaining about the high cost of US made goods.

Don't even get me started about the people making minimum wage who can't read at more than a fifth grade level, because they either slid through their school system or were just too busy cutting classes and getting wasted. Then they want the gov't to help them in every aspect of their existence. The US is dangerously close to a "Brain Drain" and not enough schools are teaching that math and science are absolutely necessary to the US staying on top in terms of innovation and technology. Some European countries teach the kids math in 3rd grade that we teach in early high school. We can't seem to teach people to stay in school and read a newspaper. Yes, I know this isn't every kid in American schools.

By the way, Nissan had cars that talked in the late '70's. Remember the Maxima and "The door is ajar"?

Knoxes
08-19-2004, 11:03 AM
Yabut, Jim, c'mon.

Micheal Knight in a Nissan??

Maxima = no street cred

JimN
08-19-2004, 11:46 AM
But it still talked.

lakes Rick
08-19-2004, 04:58 PM
When I was still in Hawaii, we would go by the USS Arizona Memorial a few times a year. People would come visit us, or their was some kind of function over there. Anyhow, their are/were Japanese people all over that memorial. They're taking photos smiling, etc. It bothered me to no end. A guy I worked with was out at Las Alamos and picked up this T-shirt: on the back a mushroom cloud with, "Made in America, tested in Japan." He would wear it to the memorial. After some of these Japanese tourists with their cameras and smiles read that they weren't smiling anymore...

I have that shirt... A true classic...

The worst thing about the Arizona memorial is MOST of the Japs on it never even knew about the Jap sneak attack on Pearl Harbor.. Japanese history lessons in school do NOT include it.. Bet you me the Atomic dome is shoved down there throat.....

bradamerry
08-19-2004, 05:06 PM
Rick it is amazing how history is taught by each country. My dad was born and rised in England and they did not learn about the American Rev. in english schools?? The settlers just revoked is how he learned it??

Knoxes
08-19-2004, 05:16 PM
Pearl Harbor death toll = 2403 soldier
Hiroshima death toll = ~140,000 men, women and children
Nagasaki death toll = ~70,000 men, women and children

Wonder why it would be so important to them? I think if somebody dropped a nuke on you, it'd be pretty hard to forget.

Here's a lovely image: she's too weak to even drink the water, and just lays there, waiting to die.

http://www.nvccom.co.jp/abomb/gisei22.gif

BriEOD
08-19-2004, 05:18 PM
:rolleyes:

BriEOD
08-19-2004, 05:22 PM
:rolleyes:

lakes Rick
08-19-2004, 05:27 PM
My biggest problem is with MONEY

When my family came to America there were no free handouts.. My Grandfather came from Germany in 1913.. He swept floors for 13 cents an hour or he didn't eat....

NOW every Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Cuban, Mexican, Iranian, Arabian, Vietnamese knows exactly where to go for FREE food, Social Security, WELFARE, FREE housing, Free medical and on and on.. And then WE cater to these NON CITIZENS amending the AMERICAN language written or spoken.. How many jobs have you been turned down on because you are not BI lingual???

It sure isn't free to ME... And I have to pay for it.. I am sick and tired of it..

OUR tax dollars going to everybody else except the people who pay them???

I was at the supermarket the other day.. Russian family ahead of me with 3 carts of food.. 6 kids, oldest one is 6.. Guess who paid for that food.. YOU and ME baby.. FOOD STAMPS.. What happened to if you "can't feed em dont breed em"??? Problem is our chicken government can't say no with out some dogooder saying "racist or sexist" and those magic words keep the insanity just going....

I read in the parade Magazine about how some black girl, in AMERICA, has decided to only read about African history, she wasn't interested in American history.. Gosh maybe she is living in the WRONG country if she isnt interested in what America has done for her....

Two weeks ago, article about shipping 15,000 hmong ( cambodians) to the U.S.. Michigan I think... Feds were going to give 22.5 MILLION dollars to house them, feed them, child care and on and on and on and on... Local people said they had NO IDEA where these people were gonna work as there was NO WORK FOR THE CITIZENS!!!!!!! I guess they don't have to work, everything in America is FREE to all the aliens......

Is there something wrong with this picture..

And please don't tell me that America was built on this.. I am sure the founding fathers would be quite shocked at what the country they started has become...

Knoxes
08-19-2004, 05:31 PM
No country is beyond reproach, Brian.

But that's a little girl.

And those were nuclear weapons.

Again, I'm not justifying their actions, but let's just not forget that we used two NUCLEAR weapons on CIVILIANS.

lakes Rick
08-19-2004, 05:31 PM
Knoxes their are plenty of photos of American soldiers and sailors in the same shape from a surprise attack. Also, lets not forget that the Japanese were a close rival to the Germans in things they did to innocent people. Were not talking about Switzerland here. They did thousands of tests with Chemical and Biological weapons on innocent Chinese people. I'm sure they would have done them on Americans. Much of what we know about the effects of chem/bio weapons came at the hands of the Japanese. Nice, real nice!

I might be off a couple of percent but I am real close:

Allied prisoners killed or died in German POW camps: 3%
Allied prisoners killed or died in Japanese Pow camps 70%+...

lakes Rick
08-19-2004, 05:37 PM
No country is beyond reproach, Brian.

But that's a little girl.

And those were nuclear weapons.

Again, I'm not justifying their actions, but let's just not forget that we used two NUCLEAR weapons on CIVILIANS.

And you don't think that the Atomic weapons the Japs and Germans were developing would have been used on the US citizens??

BriEOD
08-19-2004, 05:38 PM
:rolleyes:

Knoxes
08-19-2004, 05:48 PM
And you don't think that the Atomic weapons the Japs and Germans were developing would have been used on the US citizens??

We'll never know. But if you are assuming that our use of nuclear weapons somehow prohibited their use, you're making a false assumption. There may well be a correlation, but a direct relationship is unprovable.

DanC
08-19-2004, 05:52 PM
Perhaps you all should do some more research

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/12.12.96/cover/china1-9650.html

:popcorn:

Knoxes
08-19-2004, 05:56 PM
Yeah, that's a little girl that died of radiation. How would you like to be a little girl that died because your lungs filled up with fluid cause all your aveouli burst, or your skin all turned into blisters, or your nervous system caused every cholinestrae in your body to contract every muscle in your body, or a chemical that causes your red blood cells not to transport 02 to your muscles, on and on. I don't know about you but I'll take the fallout, or the quick painless death. Don't keep me alive and give me doses and then record the results. They used them as human guinea pigs.

Brian, I don't want anybody to die. That's the whole point of my participation in this thread. If there's a theme for me here, it's that hate, racism and bigotry breed events just like Pearl Harbor and 9/11 - they also cause Japanese internment camps, GITMO, the American Indian genocide, Chilean death squads, etc.

It needs to stop. World peace is inevitable. We're just delaying it.

And that picture was taken about 2 weeks after the actual dropping of the bomb, so there was nothing quick or painless about it.

Knoxes
08-19-2004, 06:00 PM
Perhaps you all should do some more research

http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/12.12.96/cover/china1-9650.html

:popcorn:


Yeah, I knew somthing of that. Nauseating. <shaking head>. It's unbelievable what humans are capable of.

BriEOD
08-19-2004, 06:05 PM
:rolleyes:

bradamerry
08-19-2004, 06:14 PM
Ok Guys, I have been as much apart of this thread than anybody, but we sure stole Steve0137's thread. Sorry. Those sure are some great sleds.

Knoxes
08-19-2004, 06:17 PM
You mis-understood me or I wasn't clear. I didn't mean that "fall-out" (the alpha radiation that comes out of the atmosphere and covers the earths surface after a nuclear yield and can be inhaled, ingested or absorbed into the human body), I meant that a nuclear yield in which someone was exposed to would be a quick and painless death as compared to bio/chem weapons physiological affects on the human body.

With the exception of this past year I have spent my ENTIRE adult life in the military dealing with conventional, bio/chem, nuclear and IED ordnance, training, learning, disposing. No one is going to convince me that fallout or direct exposure to a nuclear yield is as traumatic as exposure to chem/bio weapons.

World peace will never happen. Just look at history. People will always fight. Look at N. Ireland or the Gaza Strip. Those people don't even know what they are fighting for anymore, just that they've always done it. We don't have the IRA anymore, now we have the RIRA. Who is going to create the peace? Who's going to protect it? And the Japanese entering the war was about Oil, resources and money as our many wars, and many more to come I am quite certain. Plenty of job security in the military proffesion.

heh. well, honestly, I had no idea what you were talking about in that post, so I went with the only thing that I thought I understood. Obviously, I misunderstood, and I hope I didn't mis-represent you because I still don't understand quite what you're saying. I don't know... <shrug>... it seems to me that dying either way sucks and is aviodable.

I guess I should be more specific about why and how I believe peace is inevitable.

BriEOD
08-19-2004, 06:22 PM
ahhh whatever...let's agree to disagree on this one. ;) Where's the beer? :toast:

Knoxes
08-19-2004, 06:37 PM
ahhh whatever...let's agree to disagree on this one. ;) Where's the beer? :toast:


You bet! (atleast till next time ;) ). And I'll buy the first round.

Lemme open the bar in the morning and we'll get to drinkin'...

NeilM
08-23-2004, 02:06 AM
wow. we need to open the bar.

Rick, I agree - I don't understand how the politicians arrive at the conclusion that giving jobs away is a good thing.

Brian, as a Canadian, I wouldn't have the balls to wear the 'tested in Japan' T-shirt at the Arizona Memorial, but I know I would be uncomfortable as hell standing next to them reading all those names.

What amazed me is that the USA recently apologized for dropping the bombs:confused:

Jobs in my industry (IT) are going to Hungary, India, Singapore, and soon to China, faster than you can say "unemployed"... Communications costs used to make it unfeasible, but these days, international bandwidth is so cheap, there is a strong economic incentive to employ an equally-skilled, highly educated resource for one-tenth the salary and way fewer benefits than what we demand..

Like it or not, the world is changing.:twocents:

JimN
08-23-2004, 10:16 AM
IT jobs are being lost to those other countries, but have you tried calling the customer service line for a big company lately? First, they're usually not even on the same continent, and they barely speak the same language. Which means that they don't understand half of the questions, won't give the right answers and customer service then becomes just the name of their department.

Rick- almost all of the freebie programs have come in the last century. How do you think the people felt when they first started paying income tax?

This country started because of Manifest Destiny(God wants us to have this, be happy and prosper) and as a business venture(the colonies with the system of management that was used at the time). Some people were managers and the others worked. Not all of the servents were slaves from Africa, there were auditors from the English companies that sponsored the various colonies who would come over and make sure it was working as a business and if it wasn't turning a profit, managers were removed with new ones installed or they would disband the whole colony if it was bad enough. There were high taxes paid to the Crown and in the late 1600's, there were tax revolts and squabbles. In the late 1700's, there were still Loyalists who, after the fighting started, really couldn't live in the same area where they had been and in a lot of cases they either went back to England, Canada or some other place where they were with others like them.

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy". Benjamin Franklin

BriEOD
08-23-2004, 02:07 PM
:rolleyes:

captkidd
08-23-2004, 06:08 PM
Japan bombed Pearl Harbor? I thought I read on another thread that the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? ;)

lakes Rick
08-23-2004, 06:33 PM
It has been said over and over again, that when they decided to pull the trigger and drop Fat Man and Little Boy they had know fathom as to what the desired affects of the weapons would be. Furthermore, they knew even less about things like fall out etc. Japan was a guinea pig for the world nuclear powers. Very sad, I have mixed feelings about it.

Saved over a million American lives by dropping the bombs on our ENEMIES.... Sorry our ENEMIES, who started the darn thing, had to die to save AMERICANS..

Also saved thousands of POW's ( you know the guys who weighed about 49 pounds and looked like a bag of sticks cause the ENEMY tortured and didn't feed em) by ending the war early... Maybe some of you can dig up these pictures....

You can monday quarterback this all you want.. It save MILLIONS of American lives by dropping the bombs......

lakes Rick
08-23-2004, 06:39 PM
It has been said over and over again, that when they decided to pull the trigger and drop Fat Man and Little Boy they had know fathom as to what the desired affects of the weapons would be. Furthermore, they knew even less about things like fall out etc. Japan was a guinea pig for the world nuclear powers. Very sad, I have mixed feelings about it.

What do they teach you younger people in school anymore..

Japan the Germany were both trying to build ATOMIC bombs. The Brits lost many men bombing Germany's "heavy water" plants, which were producing this product strictly for ATOMIC weapons....

AGAIN, I am sure glad it wasn't america that was the "guinea pigs for testing"... It sure could have and WOULD have if everybody sat around then, LIKE NOW, with their heads in the sand SCARED to DEATH someone might call them SEXIST or RACIST.......

jimmer2880
08-23-2004, 07:12 PM
One of my favorite shirts:

Peace

Through superior firepower!

When you get right down to it - throughout history - Peace has only ever been realized when someone was afraid to pick a fight.

You're absolutely right - Those A-bombs saved millions of non-Enemy lives - period.

Leroy
08-23-2004, 08:53 PM
Ok, takes awhile to read this! WWII was won through a technology race, we won, and are still way ahead, Germany, Japan, lost or we would be reading this in another language and poor Russia (remember Russia before they melted down, I still remember the stop, drop and cover drill under my desk cause the Russian's were coming). There is power and strength that keeps countries on top, and when it crumbles its bad, has been that way forever, remember the Roman empire.

I have no problem of exporting many of the jobs we have exported. I have been in the consumer electronics business (RCA) for the past 23 years so I can tell you about exporting jobs for the past 23 years. I would put all of the nut on bolt turn 3 times jobs in low cost countries and we have highly educated, skilled jobs. That's the country I want to be in. However, the Asians are starting to do the thinking jobs also. We do have to improve our country and that is the present problem. I loved Bill Cosby's last speech. He was right on. We need to make sure we are at the top of the technology race and we are smarter, better educated, and not dealing with social diseases. I was impressed in EUrope, almost all countries have free university and it is paying off for them. I also love immigration into our country and in general we manage pretty well, we take the cream, both financially and brains from other countries. Having Einstein here means we are better off and Germany wasn't. I'm not racist, but would rather America be strong and us enjoying our MC's instead of putting nuts on bolts for 10cents per hour.

Remember late 1800's, 90%+ of people were in agricultural, now it is less than 2%, the came the manufacturing/industrial phase and we are leaving that and have become more technology I believe, and I think the next phase is global management. Look at Walmart, what will stop them? The big automotive are already competing globally. :twocents: ANy comments?

stevo137
08-23-2004, 09:08 PM
Leroy,
No doubt they (China) are raising the bar but we must answer or else.

BriEOD
08-23-2004, 09:49 PM
:rolleyes:

BriEOD
08-23-2004, 09:54 PM
:rolleyes:

JimN
08-23-2004, 10:10 PM
Leroy- the free universities obviously come at a pretty high price, though. The obstical being the fact that we don't want to pay high taxes here in the US. Look at the tax rates in countries with socialized medicine, free schools and the "dole" system like the UK.

Brian- everyone should have the right to their opinion. However, it should at least be an informed opinion. When the children of "peaceniks" are running the country, look out! Peace(in it's truest sense) is always preferable to war. I didn't serve(probably should have) but not everyone can or will serve, either. With the way people have treated others throughout history, the willingness to fight/fight back is the only way to not be a doormat. If the people who want to decimate the military have their way, we're screwed!

We have the ability to vote into office, those who have the best interest of the country at heart. If, and only if, we take the time to find out what they say their position is, then verify it and make sure accurate information is available to everyone so they can make their choice based on fact, not just reacting to what someone said. I would like to see the media start to report and stop opinionating on every little thing under the Sun. If someone wants to hear the opinions, they should be available elsewhere. I'm so f'ing tired of the slant applied to the news. I also don't like career politicians, but it takes time to make enough connections to really influence things.

I think it's time for a cold one.

People who constantly biatch about how things are/were/will be in the future but don't vote have no right to tell anyone else who should be elected.

NeilM
08-23-2004, 10:19 PM
So, as they say... "put that in your little red wagon"..


:friday: .. time for a beer... a good Canadian (!) Coors or something

stevo137
08-23-2004, 10:21 PM
Yea, the little red wagon that is now made in China, and you can get a great deal on it at wal-mart.

JimN
08-23-2004, 10:28 PM
Neil- c'mon! I live in Milwaukee. Not that Canadian beer is bad at all(as opposed to a lot of the American domestic stuff), but we have some really good micros here in town.

Is the plastic Radio Flyer made by Flambeau Plastics?

stevo137
08-23-2004, 10:43 PM
Jim, I could tell you some good stories about Flambeau! You amaze me!
You know, I worked on a project with them to make duck decoys in a prison.
I'm not sure if the wagons are made by Flambeau but will find out and let you know.
Interesting thought, when we manufacture in prisons, we are competitive with the Chinese. More of a level playing field.

JimN
08-23-2004, 10:47 PM
Nice thing about having prisoners do things, they don't have labor unions fighting for them. Oddly enough, the factory workers and prisoners here are working in similar situations- neither can do much about theirs.

Does Flambeau still make Duncan Yo-Yo's?

BriEOD
08-23-2004, 10:49 PM
I hear ya JimN.

You know I saw Neil's "I'm back post" today and his comment about you being the mystery man. You're kind of like Tom Hanks' character Capt John Miller in Saving Private Ryan. What's the pool up to? :uglyhamme

JimN
08-23-2004, 10:51 PM
Pool? If there's a pool, I want in! :D

BriEOD
08-23-2004, 10:54 PM
Well we haven't started a pool on who you actually are. But, maybe I'll start it in a new thread.

Knoxes
08-24-2004, 12:26 AM
Lots of interesting things in this thread.

One point - we can't definitively state that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki caused the surrender of Japan. It's likely, but there were certainly other factors, i.e. the Soviet Union declaring war against Japan. We'll never know whether or not another single American life would have been lost or saved if we had not used nuclear weapons. You can't say that it saved any lives, because we'll never know what might have happened if we didn't drop those two. And saying that it saved a million American soldiers is a ridiculous figure since the American death toll for the entire war was only ~300,000 (I say "only" purely as comparative - trust me, I do NOT take the loss of 300,000 people lightly). It's speculative at best and realistically only propoganda. What we do know is that ~240,000 Japanese civilians were killed in indiscriminate bombings by Americans, nearly equalling the death toll for the entire war for American troops. McNamara was quoted later as saying that he and LaMay (sp?) would have been tried as war criminals if the Allies had lost the war. If there ever was integrity in war, we abandoned it then.

JimN
08-24-2004, 01:36 AM
I don't know if any of you have seen the total killed in WWII, but Russia alone lost ~26,000,000.

BriEOD
08-24-2004, 08:11 AM
I've seen that figure before and it is astounding. Between those troops and the cold winter that really helped shut down the Germans...

east tx skier
08-27-2004, 01:13 PM
Way late on this one, but not too late to try to cap it.

Take that intelligent discussion!

captkidd
08-27-2004, 03:42 PM
The original black Trans Am:

east tx skier
08-27-2004, 06:02 PM
"Junior, when I get home, I'm gonna smack your mama square in the mouth."

-B.T. Justice

lakes Rick
08-27-2004, 09:53 PM
"Junior, when I get home, I'm gonna smack your mama square in the mouth."

-B.T. Justice

" I know you aint from my loins".......

I hate to admit I just bought this at the Video store.. Not very politically correct... I like it.....Now I need to find the uncut version of Blazing Saddles.........................