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View Full Version : Started winterizing and already problems! I'm frustrated!


TEAL98
10-25-2009, 10:00 PM
Ok, some of you might already know how my process is coming along on winterizing my boat, "yeah, thats the idiot that freaked out about his prop turning", and so forth, yeah, thats me:o

THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT PICTURES!!! I KNOW... but anyways, I pull the boat out of my buddys garage today, unbolted the first drain plug (was already fitted with a 3/4" brass plug), and hardly any water came out, just enough for a little stream. I pull the knock sensor off the starboard side and water came gushing out, so I'm thinking, well ok, that's good. Whats next?

Problem #1: I need to pull the plugs on the exhaust manifolds, so I go to the starboard side and from what I could tell, it's on the bottom backside, and it's a "hard plastic" with 1 of the 4 sides for the ratchet to go into, already broke off!:mad: And the other side? Well, I tried it, but the plug just flexes, so I guess the dealer that worked on it last, really wrenched them in there.

Problem #2: I take the "sweet looking" cover off the flame arrestor, and take the 2 bolts off that hold the PCM bracket onto the Tstat housing. I take off the Tstat housing, and whaddya know?! No thermostat and nasty looking water just sitting in the intake.

So about at that point, I lost daylight and just wanted to get home, to save the rest for tomorrow. I still need to take off the top pulley so I can access the water pump and take the impeller out. I'm so damn frustrated with this freakin' thing, I don't even know if I'm asking questions or just b!tch!ng. I guess I'll just have to get some new plugs for the exhaust manifolds and try to drill and tap the plastic ones off? Any suggestions? And as for the water sitting on top of the intake, do you think something is blocked in one or more passages in the block and thats why the one side didn't drain??? I'm halfway thinking about taking the entire intake off, and putting in a new gasket along with a new water pump, impeller, and thermostat. I figured if it's gunna be put away all winter and there's some nasty looking stuff up in there, I'd rather point and shoot while it's down than to shrug it off and have a problem in the middle of the lake next summer? Anyways, if you guys have any advice, name calling, or jokes, I'll take it all like a man:D

~Jon

Oh and I thought about bring my digicam, but didn't and just KNEW I was gunna need it, so tomorrow I will take pictures and upload them so I can show you fellas what I'm referring to

JimN
10-25-2009, 10:14 PM
Ok, some of you might already know how my process is coming along on winterizing my boat, "yeah, thats the idiot that freaked out about his prop turning", and so forth, yeah, thats me:o

THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT PICTURES!!! I KNOW... but anyways, I pull the boat out of my buddys garage today, unbolted the first drain plug (was already fitted with a 3/4" brass plug), and hardly any water came out, just enough for a little stream. I pull the knock sensor off the starboard side and water came gushing out, so I'm thinking, well ok, that's good. Whats next?

Problem #1: I need to pull the plugs on the exhaust manifolds, so I go to the starboard side and from what I could tell, it's on the bottom backside, and it's a "hard plastic" with 1 of the 4 sides for the ratchet to go into, already broke off!:mad: And the other side? Well, I tried it, but the plug just flexes, so I guess the dealer that worked on it last, really wrenched them in there.

Problem #2: I take the "sweet looking" cover off the flame arrestor, and take the 2 bolts off that hold the PCM bracket onto the Tstat housing. I take off the Tstat housing, and whaddya know?! No thermostat and nasty looking water just sitting in the intake.

So about at that point, I lost daylight and just wanted to get home, to save the rest for tomorrow. I still need to take off the top pulley so I can access the water pump and take the impeller out. I'm so damn frustrated with this freakin' thing, I don't even know if I'm asking questions or just b!tch!ng. I guess I'll just have to get some new plugs for the exhaust manifolds and try to drill and tap the plastic ones off? Any suggestions? And as for the water sitting on top of the intake, do you think something is blocked in one or more passages in the block and thats why the one side didn't drain??? I'm halfway thinking about taking the entire intake off, and putting in a new gasket along with a new water pump, impeller, and thermostat. I figured if it's gunna be put away all winter and there's some nasty looking stuff up in there, I'd rather point and shoot while it's down than to shrug it off and have a problem in the middle of the lake next summer? Anyways, if you guys have any advice, name calling, or jokes, I'll take it all like a man:D

~Jon

Oh and I thought about bring my digicam, but didn't and just KNEW I was gunna need it, so tomorrow I will take pictures and upload them so I can show you fellas what I'm referring to

Send a wire into the drain plug hole that didn't have much water coming out. It may have sand or silt lodged there. If you have had any thermal issues, this can affect cooling, too. Better yet, get some brass fittings that will allow you to connect your garden hose and back-flush it. Replace the plastic plugs with brass and put anti-seize compound on them. Snug and not leaking is sufficient.

Your motor needs a thermostat. Use a 160 degree, stainless is better. I forgot which motor you have and you only show that it's a 350- if it's not an LT-1, you'll only have the one but it's still necessary for the motor to reach a higher temperature so it can run more efficiently.

TMCNo1
10-25-2009, 10:15 PM
Ok, some of you might already know how my process is coming along on winterizing my boat, "yeah, thats the idiot that freaked out about his prop turning", and so forth, yeah, thats me:o

THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT PICTURES!!! I KNOW... but anyways, I pull the boat out of my buddys garage today, unbolted the first drain plug (was already fitted with a 3/4" brass plug), and hardly any water came out, just enough for a little stream. I pull the knock sensor off the starboard side and water came gushing out, so I'm thinking, well ok, that's good. Whats next?

Problem #1: I need to pull the plugs on the exhaust manifolds, so I go to the starboard side and from what I could tell, it's on the bottom backside, and it's a "hard plastic" with 1 of the 4 sides for the ratchet to go into, already broke off!:mad: And the other side? Well, I tried it, but the plug just flexes, so I guess the dealer that worked on it last, really wrenched them in there.

Problem #2: I take the "sweet looking" cover off the flame arrestor, and take the 2 bolts off that hold the PCM bracket onto the Tstat housing. I take off the Tstat housing, and whaddya know?! No thermostat and nasty looking water just sitting in the intake.

So about at that point, I lost daylight and just wanted to get home, to save the rest for tomorrow. I still need to take off the top pulley so I can access the water pump and take the impeller out. I'm so damn frustrated with this freakin' thing, I don't even know if I'm asking questions or just b!tch!ng. I guess I'll just have to get some new plugs for the exhaust manifolds and try to drill and tap the plastic ones off? Any suggestions? And as for the water sitting on top of the intake, do you think something is blocked in one or more passages in the block and thats why the one side didn't drain??? I'm halfway thinking about taking the entire intake off, and putting in a new gasket along with a new water pump, impeller, and thermostat. I figured if it's gunna be put away all winter and there's some nasty looking stuff up in there, I'd rather point and shoot while it's down than to shrug it off and have a problem in the middle of the lake next summer? Anyways, if you guys have any advice, name calling, or jokes, I'll take it all like a man:D

~Jon

Oh and I thought about bring my digicam, but didn't and just KNEW I was gunna need it, so tomorrow I will take pictures and upload them so I can show you fellas what I'm referring to


You have a Indmar engine, what are you referring to about a PCM bracket onto the thermostat housing?:confused:


Woooooooooooooah, don't remove any freakin' pulleys!
You need to remove the 4 screws, cover and gasket off the raw water pump to remove the impeller and not take anything off or out of your circulation pump. Your raw water pump is in front of and bolted to the bottom pulley and looks like this,
52686

bigmac
10-26-2009, 07:48 AM
I still need to take off the top pulley so I can access the water pump and take the impeller out.

Yeh, I'm pretty puzzled by this statement too. Are you confusing the circulating pump on the front of the engine (leave this item alone unless it's squealing or leaking) with the crankshaft-driven raw water pump? The latter is the device that contains the impeller you need to replace.

TEAL98
10-27-2009, 01:13 PM
Yeah, I'm an idiot and totally overlooked the crank-driven housing containing the impeller:D So I've taken pictures and here they are

TEAL98
10-27-2009, 01:18 PM
And some more

TEAL98
10-27-2009, 01:41 PM
Alrite well I didn't know how to caption each picture so here goes

Picture #1 & 2- Conclusion: I'm an idiot and overlooked it. Pulled access cover and VOILA... the impeller! With the housing being shaped like it is on the inside diameter where the impeller is seated and rotates, I'm assuming that it's fine being "binded" on one side (if that's the word for it?)

Picture #3 - Looks as if it's a little jagged around the one side but I think it's just the camera taking a picture too close with the flash on. But anyways, there's the inside

Picture #4 - The front of the intake where the thermostat housing bolts on... water just sitting there even after I poked around with a wire coat hanger. I went 5-6 inches up in there and hadn't hit anything, but how far do I have to go, really? Guess I'll try a little further tonight after I get the manifold plugs taken care of

Picture #5 & 6 - Back manifold plugs already screwed up. Last night I took a drill and tried to do a line so I could stick a flathead screwdriver in and turn it, but that didn't work out too well. So did what I could with a drill on the rest of it and will take a tap and dye to it this evening.

Picture #7 - Could've sworn I had to do something these two smaller hoses, but they run to the trans:confused:

Picture #8 - Here's what I was referring to when I talked about the PCM being bracketed to the top of the thermostat housing. I've taken all hoses off with the exception of the ones towards the backside of the engine, as pictured in # 7.

So this evening I will be drilling out the rest of the plastic out of the exhaust manifolds to put the new brass ones in, and hopefully I'll be able to poke around to get the rest of the water out of the manifold. So that's it right?!?! After I've done this, I'm done? I can just let everything sit loose and free till spring? When I took the access plate off the impeller, no water came out, so whats the point in doing that? Am I supposed to lubricate something? Thanks for dealing with the village idiot but hey I ain't proud. I don't want any expensive repairs this spring.:rolleyes:

bigmac
10-27-2009, 02:31 PM
#7 - leave those hoses alone. They carry transmission oil from the tranny to the tranny cooler.

The only reason to pull the cover off the raw water pump is if you're going to replace the impeller. As long as you have it off now, you might as well replace it for $35. It should be replace periodically anyway. Some people here think it should be replaced every year. Others think that's silly. Indmar thinks it should be replaced about every two years.

russlars
10-27-2009, 02:32 PM
When I took the access plate off the impeller, no water came out, so whats the point in doing that? Am I supposed to lubricate something?

I can't answer most of your questions, but as far as the impeller goes I would recommend taking it out of the housing and then replacing it with a new one along with the gasket in the spring. Make this one your back-up spare. There is a tube of lubricant that you place in the housing that usually comes with a new one.

bigmac
10-27-2009, 02:38 PM
Are you sure you're trying to take the right plugs out of the manifolds? Looks to me like those are at the back of the manifold rather than on the underside. Your boat is likely different from mine, but usually the correct drain plugs are on the underside of the manifold.

TMCNo1
10-27-2009, 03:07 PM
That's the location I have always seen and pulled on that style manifold from Indmar, just like on our 351 ford, except our plugs are steel and I use teflon plumbers tape on them upon installation so they will not stick, but will seal.

bigmac
10-27-2009, 04:04 PM
That's the location I have always seen and pulled on that style manifold from Indmar, just like on our 351 ford, except our plugs are steel and I use teflon plumbers tape on them upon installation so they will not stick, but will seal.


Alrighty, then....never mind.

mark g
10-27-2009, 04:38 PM
did you drain the petcocks (drains) on each side of the block, if not much water came out i would poke them when they are open with a coat hanger,have seen them with bits of rust etc clogging up.

shunra
10-27-2009, 05:30 PM
Problem #2: I take off the Tstat housing, and whaddya know?! No thermostat and nasty looking water just sitting in the intake.



Just to be sure. Are you looking inside the triangular shaped piece for the thermostat? The triangle shaped piece I am talking about is in your picture #8. That is where mine lives. I origianally thought it would be right in the manifold but it wasn't. The reason I ask is b/c in your picture #4 it looks like there is only 2 bolts holding down the housing you removed. My thermostat lives under the housing that is held on by 3 bolts.

mark g
10-27-2009, 06:01 PM
shunra got to agree it doesnt look like thermostat housing, i cant think what that picture is of, could do with zooming out a little to try to place it.

Chicago190
10-27-2009, 06:05 PM
Just to be sure. Are you looking inside the triangular shaped piece for the thermostat? The triangle shaped piece I am talking about is in your picture #8. That is where mine lives. I origianally thought it would be right in the manifold but it wasn't. The reason I ask is b/c in your picture #4 it looks like there is only 2 bolts holding down the housing you removed. My thermostat lives under the housing that is held on by 3 bolts.

I think it was a weird angle. It looks like the bolts have been removed from the Thermostat housing

shunra
10-28-2009, 11:41 AM
I think it was a weird angle. It looks like the bolts have been removed from the Thermostat housing

Yeah I noticed the bolts were removed too, but in his picture #4 it is clear that there are 2 bolts holes across from each other, not 3 in a triangle arangment. Also you can tell that the gasket in his picture would be a round one not triangle shaped.

Here is two pictures of mine.

First one - No thermostat.
http://usera.imagecave.com/shunra/Themostatsmall.jpg

Second one - Here it is.
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=47580&stc=1&d=1242705625

My first picture looks alot like Teal98s picture #4. I think his picture is looking in where the thermostat housing bolts to the manifold, not inside the housing itself.

Chicago190
10-28-2009, 02:39 PM
Yeah I noticed the bolts were removed too, but in his picture #4 it is clear that there are 2 bolts holes across from each other, not 3 in a triangle arangment. Also you can tell that the gasket in his picture would be a round one not triangle shaped.

Here is two pictures of mine.

First one - No thermostat.
http://usera.imagecave.com/shunra/Themostatsmall.jpg

Second one - Here it is.
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=47580&stc=1&d=1242705625

My first picture looks alot like Teal98s picture #4. I think his picture is looking in where the thermostat housing bolts to the manifold, not inside the housing itself.

Good eye, his picture is definitely where the housing attaches to the manifold.

Abe
10-29-2009, 06:02 PM
I would drain the block by opening the petcocks one on each side, Uncouple The hose that links to the Exhaust manifolds (ford 351). Take out The Impeller and and any hoses that hold water. I would not touch anything else. Before That I would change oil and filter, tranny oil, Fuel additives and fogging oil. Grease all nipples and tend to the trailer. anything else. ?

uncleboo
10-30-2009, 01:27 AM
change that thermostat--it looks rusty.

TEAL98
11-02-2009, 08:38 PM
Ok, so after work today, I went by my buddy's and tried getting those damn plastic plugs out of the back by drilling them out, but to no avail. However, I have drilled some good size holes in them, and a considerable amount of water has drained out, so I beleive they're good to go. In any event, since I have the day off tomorrow, I will be using a tap and dye set on it, so i can get the plastic out of the threads and install some brass plugs. Onto my next point...

So tomorrow afternoon I'm going to Napa to purchase a new impeller and thermostat (more than likely will have to order, but whatever). I plan on also getting two brass plugs for the back of the manifolds for both sides. If they have to order the new Tstat and impeller, no big deal. I'm going to take care of the manifolds, put the plugs in, VERY lightly grease the impeller housing, re-install my existing impeller, since nothing is wrong with it, take my Tstat out, and re-connect all the hoses and both block drain plugs.

THE REASON being as to why I'm doing this, is because I took a coat hanger to the side of the block that did not drain, and nothing is clogged. I got it WAY up in there too, maybe a little over a foot. So I took it to the side that DID drain and I got the same result. I didn't think anything was clogged anyways, because I never had an issue of the engine loading up on the lake. If anything it took a little longer than I expected to heat up, everytime I was on the lake. Anyways, I got to lookin at it, and it seems that even though the boat and trailer are sitting level, the motor seems to be tilted back at an angle (for good reason obviously), and maybe thats where my problem lies? I got to taking a good look at the top of the intake hole on the front, and I hardly have maybe an 1/8th inch of water sitting in the intake. Maybe it's because of the way the motor is sitting?:confused: THIS IS THE REASON why I'm going to "button-up" everything and put it all back together, to run anti-freeze through the motor with the T-stat out. Atleast then I know that no more water is in the engine, and I have the extra added "insurance policy" of AF throughout. I plan on taking a 1-2 foot hose section and a funnel at the top and pouring it in through my "fake-a-lake" hole in the transom of the boat. That way when it spits out the back, after a few seconds, I know everything is filled in the engine.

Am I wrong for doing this? Does this sound like a good plan? Any and all comments are appreciated. You guys have been alot of help and are DEFINATELY appreciated by this village idiot:D Just like has been said by newbies before, you guys are definately the reason why anything besides a MasterCraft just will not do:cool:

~Jon

TEAL98
11-02-2009, 08:47 PM
OH, and not like it matteres (or maybe it does?) when I put the coat hanger up into the drain hole on the port side of the boat, I pulled it back out, and there was a bunch of... not sludge but very similiar, almost something that looked similiar to what you would get with blow-by. What's up with that? It's not clogged, didn't get any chunks, and it was hardly enough to make a film over the metal, but it was pretty interesting I thought:confused: Like I said, I've never had an issue with keeping the motor cool, and it's operating temp is around 150 or so (can't really remember, but it was low), so... yeah...?

Chicago190
11-02-2009, 08:51 PM
No, it's fine. A lot of people antifreeze their engines, myself included. You are going to waste some antifreeze by going from underneath the boat. I prefer to use a 5 gallon bucket and a 2 ft. section of hose the same size as the the raw water intake hose, and then connect it the the input side of the transmission cooler. 5 gallons is enough to have antifreeze coming out of the exhaust that way.

Edit: If Napa doesn't have the exhaust manifold plugs, they are 3/4" NPT plugs and they should be available at Home Depot. I retapped my manifold last year, and it went fine. I used cutting fluid and just went really slowly. Also, if you don't have a 3/4" NPT tap already, I wouldn't count on finding it in a store, I had to order one on the internet.

TMCNo1
11-02-2009, 09:29 PM
This statement has me concerned, "I plan on taking a 1-2 foot hose section and a funnel at the top and pouring it in through my "fake-a-lake" hole in the transom of the boat."
What do you mean???????

TEAL98
11-02-2009, 09:36 PM
The input side of the tranny cooler would be where this "large diameter hose" goes into it on the bottom left corner of the picture, correct?

TEAL98
11-02-2009, 09:39 PM
This statement has me concerned, "I plan on taking a 1-2 foot hose section and a funnel at the top and pouring it in through my "fake-a-lake" hole in the transom of the boat."
What do you mean???????


well that's what I planned on doing, because I didn't know any other way of doing it before chicago190 suggested the above. You know, the hole where you hook your water hose up to in the back right corner of the boat to run the motor after you get home from a ski trip... but I guess the input side of the tranny cooler is a better idea

cbryan70
11-02-2009, 09:39 PM
could have a fake a lake on the boat with a hose always connected running to the back of the boat then whenever he starts it he just hooks the hose up to the back of the boat?

cbryan70
11-02-2009, 09:40 PM
well that's what I planned on doing, because I didn't know any other way of doing it before chicago190 suggested the above. You know, the hole where you hook your water hose up to in the back right corner of the boat to run the motor after you get home from a ski trip... but I guess the input side of the tranny cooler is a better idea


thats not factory:cool:

TEAL98
11-02-2009, 09:55 PM
This is where I was going to put a small length hose and a funnel at the top of it, and run antifreeze through it. It's at the corner on the starboard side with a black cap on it and a tiny little chain like the lucky rabbit foots of the old days:D Should I go through here or the input side of the trans cooler? Or does it really matter?

Chicago190
11-02-2009, 10:12 PM
I can't tell exactly what your setup is because I've never seen it before. A fake-a-lake is a product that is essentially a plunger with a garden hose fitting that you attach to the underside of the hull over the raw water intake grate. Yours appears to be some sort of external connection, which I've never seen before. I think your method will work, but you'll be using extra anti-freeze to fill the hose all the way from the back of the boat to the engine. I only posted my method because it uses the least antifreeze possible.

TMCNo1
11-02-2009, 10:30 PM
This is where I was going to put a small length hose and a funnel at the top of it, and run antifreeze through it. It's at the corner on the starboard side with a black cap on it and a tiny little chain like the lucky rabbit foots of the old days:D Should I go through here or the input side of the trans cooler? Or does it really matter?

OK, that's a flushing connection to use with a water hose for flushing out salt water after use. I am not sure if it will suck water out of a bucket or not. Maybe someone can answer, but using the intake hose from the thru hull pickup would be the best bet.

cbryan70
11-03-2009, 01:43 AM
agree with TMC but that is a slick set up to use a hose. that would make my life easier when firing the boat up in the driveway

mayo93prostar
11-03-2009, 06:55 AM
And some more

teal, it appears you have a Perko flush kit with a hose running to the rear of the boat to connect to external garden hose. In the second picture on post 2, the perko adapter is shown under the exhaust manifold. there is a small black tube on the rubber strap holding the white cap. You should remove the black tube from the strap and insert the tube into the perko adapter to hold the ball valve in to suck in antifreeze. normally this ball valve is pushed forward by the pressure of the water from the garden hose but sucking from a funnel or bucket will not do it. You can insert the antifreeze right at the perko adapter with a funnel and hose also. but, you need to insert the black tube.

TEAL98
11-07-2009, 12:13 PM
So last night I worked and worked and worked at tapping ONE plastic plug out of the exhaust manifold, and after almost 3 hours, I got it (the drill died and couldn't find the charger). So I was on route to finishing everything, till I got my brass 3/4" NPT pluig that good ole' NAPA sold me and it the inside diameter almost covered my hole, it was so freakin' big. It would figure. So now I wouldn't be able to complete my winterization process like I wanted to, but I got what? One exhaust manifold hole drilled through??:rolleyes: One step ahead, two steps behind. So I decided to run some AF through the intake and noticed it leaking from my block. My starbord AND port side were clear, I didn't think the port side was clear originally because all the water drained out of the knock sensor pluig. So I figured hey, it's almost midnight, I need to get home, it's FREEZING (temp was 34 degrees dipping below freezing later on), and to give me re-assurance, I'm going to dump AF in the intake with both block plugs in. So I did, It took a little over 2 gallons after some leaked out of the raw water circulation pump where the hose attaches (didn't think about that one before it happened). I also dumped a tiny bit of AF in the exhaust manifolds where the hose hooks to the front and it ran out the back (just to give me re-assurance). So now I'm all plugged up with AF run through-out the block/heads/intake. Think I'm good to go, just need to go back tomorrow morning and squirt some oil in the cylinders and change the engine oil, and i guess I can leave it alone till march.:)