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wpstevenson
10-20-2009, 04:58 PM
I recived an email the first of sep talking about the new items for 2010, one of them was plug and play ballast. Here is part of the email i recieved from mc.

"Also, see the stunning new billet-aluminum dash with intricate bezel double-black, red-lit gauges with aircraft-style cargo switches. And, get a load of our super-convenient Plug n' Play ballast system or new surf tabs for even more amazing custom wake contours. In addition, crank it up a few notches with our 2010 killer Clarion CMD6 sound or CMV1 DVD upgrade."

Here is my question the email says "super-convenient Plug n' Play ballast system" I don't see plug n play as a option to check on build a boat and my dealer has a 2010 x15 in the shop and it looks like the 09 ballast set up. The rear tanks did look deeper and the back pumps are located behind the engine out in the open instead of behind each rear panel.

Anyone seen the plug and play ballast? How do you order it or when will it be available?

Jim@BAWS
10-20-2009, 06:22 PM
I recived an email the first of sep talking about the new items for 2010, one of them was plug and play ballast. Here is part of the email i recieved from mc.

"Also, see the stunning new billet-aluminum dash with intricate bezel double-black, red-lit gauges with aircraft-style cargo switches. And, get a load of our super-convenient Plug n' Play ballast system or new surf tabs for even more amazing custom wake contours. In addition, crank it up a few notches with our 2010 killer Clarion CMD6 sound or CMV1 DVD upgrade."

Here is my question the email says "super-convenient Plug n' Play ballast system" I don't see plug n play as a option to check on build a boat and my dealer has a 2010 x15 in the shop and it looks like the 09 ballast set up. The rear tanks did look deeper and the back pumps are located behind the engine out in the open instead of behind each rear panel.

Anyone seen the plug and play ballast? How do you order it or when will it be available?

You can take a small memory stick and plug it into V-dig and download your ballast setting PP setting etc. Take that stick to another 2010 and load those settings in

Pretty Cool even if Dr. Brainey doesnt think so

Jim@BAWS

corey
10-20-2009, 06:27 PM
Our first 2010's don't arrive till later this month so I'm not sure but my understanding is that the plug and play is standard on most of the boats (my guess is boats with the BIG display only) The system should be like the previous Fly High upgrade system. I do not know if it is integrated into the rear tanks only or if they will have a plug and play for the KGB.

Perhaps your dealer got an early 2010 that didnt get the system installed, I know that since production started MC has made speed based volume standard on boats with BIG.

wpstevenson
10-21-2009, 10:39 AM
That is what I thought plug and play ballast was, the connections for fly high bags already installed. I'm sure Jim is right, plug and play is settings you can transfer.

SaltwaterMC
10-21-2009, 11:04 AM
You are correct, they are going to have the boats set up for the additional Fly High ballast system but they are just now finishing up testing and validation for all of the boats. Thus the earlier 2010 MCs did not have the option since MC had not completed all of the different configurations for each of the boats. You just have to purchase the bags as they are not going to be available from MC due to the USCG capacities. The only reason I know this is because I thought I remembered hearing something about this plug and play additional ballast system in our 2010 dealer meeting but noticed that our 2010s did not come plumbed for the Fly High system. So I called our regional rep and he basically told me what I explained above. However, Jim is correct in that you can load all of your rider settings (including speed, ballast configuration, and tab positions) onto a thumb drive and plug it in and recall your settings on any 2010 MC with the BIG system and it will automatically adjust everything accordingly.

wpstevenson
10-21-2009, 11:36 AM
that is great. Do you know if will be standard on all x boats or will it be an option?

Prostar19
10-21-2009, 11:48 AM
Option on X Boats

MCOC
01-13-2010, 02:44 PM
Just in case anyone was still wondering about the 2010 Plug and Play ballast option. We just received the 2010 X-2 that MasterCraft used to test the system. It has 4 additional sacs installed two in the front bow and two in the rear compartments. You have 2 switches by the driver side cup holder that you can switch to the factory ballast or plug and play ballast, one switch for the front sacs and the other for the rear sacs. This switch is wired to an auto valve that automaticity flips the directional valve. You can fill and drain “all” ballast from the driver seat. The additional ballast does not show up on the big system only the factory does. We have not tested it yet but thought some of you might find this interesting.
54784

54788
54785

54786

54787
The auto valves are located in the engine compartment above the CAT sensors. It is my understanding when you order the system it does not come with the bags.

KnoxX2
01-13-2010, 02:52 PM
What if you only wanted to fill one side for surfin?

MCOC
01-13-2010, 03:03 PM
What if you only wanted to fill one side for surfin?

It is not set up to do that, your only choices are bow or stern factory or plug and play. It would be nice to fill port or stbd.

KnoxX2
01-13-2010, 03:10 PM
Based on that I would not want that option!!!!

MCOC
01-13-2010, 03:19 PM
I am guessing the system is a work in progress and will evolve with time.

KnoxX2
01-13-2010, 03:46 PM
It would not stop my from buying a boat, I would just not get that option.

I would think with 2 more switches it could be set up for a surf wake! That is if the switches control/select the pumps!

Prostar19
01-13-2010, 03:49 PM
Maybe I am missing something here:confused:. Ok if you fill the starboard factory ballast tank by turning on the starboard pump THEN you switch the valve to the extra bag would it not just fill the starboard bag:confused::confused:??? The starboard and port bags are not hooked together. This works just like the old Fly High System except this switches the vavle automatically instead of manually.

KnoxX2
01-13-2010, 03:51 PM
That would make sense!

KnoxX2
01-13-2010, 03:57 PM
Ijust don't know enought about the system to say how it works! However if I know MasterCraft thet thought of this and set it up so you could still use the surf wake!

MCOC
01-13-2010, 04:07 PM
Maybe I am missing something here:confused:. Ok if you fill the starboard factory ballast tank by turning on the starboard pump THEN you switch the valve to the extra bag would it not just fill the starboard bag:confused::confused:??? The starboard and port bags are not hooked together. This works just like the old Fly High System except this switches the vavle automatically instead of manually.

You might be right. We need to take the boat to the water and play with the system. I will let you know after we get some time to take it out.

Prostar19
01-13-2010, 04:15 PM
I have the regular fly high system in my xstar and that is how it works. The 2 front bags do both fill at the same time but the rear bags are independent. I am 100% sure MC's new system is the same and only the valve is different.

MYMC
01-13-2010, 04:19 PM
The "fill" switches are still the same..."STRB", "PORT" & "KGB" the plug-n-play adds "tank" or "bag". So you can fill strb or port tank and/or bag independently of the other side (for surfing or offsetting the weight of fat people).

You cannot (at least in the X2) fill the front bags on one side since they are connected to the KGB pump and only have 1 valve which cotrols flow to "tank" or "bag".

VOLFAN
01-13-2010, 04:44 PM
The "fill" switches are still the same..."STRB", "PORT" & "KGB" the plug-n-play adds "tank" or "bag". So you can fill strb or port tank and/or bag independently of the other side (for surfing or offsetting the weight of fat people).

You cannot (at least in the X2) fill the front bags on one side since they are connected to the KGB pump and only have 1 valve which cotrols flow to "tank" or "bag".

thanks for clarifying.. i figured this would be the case...

pretty much the same as if you was to add it after the fact in the past.

you can cut the hose going to the front bags and install a ball valve and after filling both front back clase the valve off on the bag you want to remain full and when you empty it will stay full so you can keep that weight to that one side. at least I think this will be the case and is going to be something I try.

Or
01-15-2010, 04:09 PM
when this option be available?

Prostar19
01-15-2010, 04:38 PM
it is available now

Or
01-16-2010, 02:48 PM
it's not on the "Built your boat" option list, and my dealer don't know about it, i sent him to call the factory and check it out. hope you right..

Or
01-21-2010, 10:18 AM
another one...
anyone know how much (approx) this option should cost?

is there a way to check all the options MSRP on the 2010 boats?

bwop
02-09-2010, 09:16 PM
plug n play ballast are now in the "Built your boat" option list
pricing anyone?

jason@wakemakers.com
03-09-2010, 03:04 PM
The Plug & Play option itself isn't too expensive, but remember that the bags and fittings are not included with the option, so you'll need to purchase those as well.

We just received our first shipment of bags for 2010 Mastercrafts, so they're available now, and once you have those, the system truly is plug and play.

ttu
03-09-2010, 03:46 PM
jason, do you carry the 20 minute timers for the pumps?

jason@wakemakers.com
03-09-2010, 05:30 PM
Yep, we've got 'em. Not sure if I can post a link here, but search for timer on our site and it will come up. Right now we've got four in stock.

Or
03-10-2010, 02:58 AM
The Plug & Play option itself isn't too expensive, but remember that the bags and fittings are not included with the option, so you'll need to purchase those as well.

We just received our first shipment of bags for 2010 Mastercrafts, so they're available now, and once you have those, the system truly is plug and play.

I'm not sure, but when i talked to my dealer he said 1500/2500... i don't remember wich one :)

johkur
07-05-2010, 08:19 PM
What if you only wanted to fill one side for surfin?

Each hose comes with a plug. So you simply disconnect the bag and reconnect the plug. it clamps in like the bag does. I've tested filling the front bags with the plugs in, and they hold. So you just set the kgb to fill the bags, but have only one bag connected, and you've got only one side filled.

But I also was talking with someone who's tested various methods, and his preference was to fill ALL the bags and tanks, and then put 1100 pounds on the rear seat (l-shaped bag), and gets the best wake. Port side is better wake on MC due to prop rotation.

wpstevenson
07-26-2010, 05:44 PM
I have the plug and play system in my 2010 x15. Last weekend I finally got the x15 bags from fly high. When you switch to fill bags you don't have overflow. Am I missing something, If you let the pump run it will bust something.

Prostar19
07-26-2010, 06:20 PM
the pumps are not supposed to push enough pressure to bust the bags is what I heard

wpstevenson
07-26-2010, 06:33 PM
They push enough to crush the gas shock on the hatch and start to open it.

Prostar19
07-26-2010, 06:47 PM
now that could be a problem

TallRedRider
07-26-2010, 06:48 PM
I have the plug and play system in my 2010 x15. Last weekend I finally got the x15 bags from fly high. When you switch to fill bags you don't have overflow. Am I missing something, If you let the pump run it will bust something.

They push enough to crush the gas shock on the hatch and start to open it.

The Jabsco pumps will put out enormous pressure if you let them. An overflow is a must. Be very careful until you figure out where the bag is supposed to overflow.

Sorry I can't help on how it is configured, but I do know there is no way they designed it to run until the pump can't push anymore water.

johkur
07-26-2010, 07:03 PM
I went through alot of analysis on the bags, considered getting Xstar bags for my X45, considered buying the T-fittings with the one-way valves to add the venting for the plug and play bags myself, and ended up just going with the regular plug and play bags custom made for the boat. Like you, the front bags can raise the seats if you want. According to the Fly high people, the bags are deliberately sized that way, and manufactured to Mastercraft specs.

According to a document I saw, the pumps can definitely suck more psi than the hard tanks can allow, and so the hard tanks NEED to be vented. But soft bags can just turn into raisins when they're not vented, and of course could still drain with vents (in my opinion). I still dont' understand why the plug and play didn't include the T-fittings and checkvalves for venting like most other bag systems utilize.

But I've used the system now without vents, and the bags do at least include the vent-caps. So we let it fill, keep our eye on it, and then open the vent cap to let the air out, and then close. And we let the front seats be raised up because the extra weight is necessary to get anything like a 60/40 ratio of rear/front, the front area is much smaller than the back compartments on at least my X45.

Although the pumps can't burst the bags on psi alone, if they're pushing on things like pistons, I can't believe that's good. According to FlyHigh, even if the psi isn't enough to burst the bag, the bag is more sensitive to rupture when its tight, versus when its sloshing (makes sense). so you probably want to keep your eye on it.

And fly high gave me the part #s to add venting into the boat's vents, but it didn't seem easy to find the ballast vents to T into, so I've backburnered the project for now, seeing how the included system works out, which so far is fine except for having to manually check all vents instead of just sitting in the drivers seat and filling the bags until you see them venting/overflowing outside the boat which is what I expected.

GregS
07-26-2010, 08:19 PM
We have the plug and play in our 2010 X-Star...we just watch the bags and cut off the switch when they are full. Smart Call by Mastercraft to have this option in the boat.

wpstevenson
07-27-2010, 03:16 PM
seems pretty easy to cause damage. they need to have overflows. If they would have just teed into the factory system the tank would fill first then the bag. Then the the over flow on the tank would work. I did this on my 2008 and 2009. I guess I will tie the bags into the tank over flow. Has anyone tried moving the ball to the middle so the tanks and bag get filled together, just thought of it. You have to hold the switch long enough for the ball valve to move and make the contacts. if you held it so it got half way it might work.

edge0
07-27-2010, 04:10 PM
I have the plug and play system in my 2010 x15. Last weekend I finally got the x15 bags from fly high. When you switch to fill bags you don't have overflow. Am I missing something, If you let the pump run it will bust something.

Does Fly High make custom bags for the X15? Do you know the dimensions? Did you order these? Thanks

wpstevenson
07-27-2010, 04:58 PM
Yes, thats what I ordered the special x15 bags. I don't know the deminions they seem small but fill the space. I got mine from Bobby at maxwake.com

Captain Fronk
08-12-2010, 03:59 PM
Plug & Play System has lot of disadvantages .. in my opinion a major show stopper is that you cant control Starboard and Port independently

Check my solution .. works perfect ... http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?p=679250#post679250

Bye Captain Fronk

Or
12-09-2010, 06:18 AM
aomeone can explain me how the front bags works? mybe some pictures?

jason@wakemakers.com
12-14-2010, 06:51 PM
The Plug & Play option is exactly the same as the Fly High Additional Ballast System that has been offered for years with the addition of electronic solenoid valves that are controlled from the dash.

So that means the bow bags are setup exactly the same as they are in the Fly High kit. For boats with Plug & Play options that have two bow bags (X-2, X-15, X35, X45, X-Star and Maristar versions) the pump that fills and drains the KGB tank is what controls the bow bags, and they're connected in parallel, so both bow bags will fill at the same time when using the Plug & Play option.

There's a diagram of the setup on our website under the Fly High Additional Ballast system if you want to see how they're actually connected.

johkur
12-19-2010, 10:28 PM
Actually, didn't your flyhigh system normally vent? the plug & play uses the little hand-vents, that you must open to release the air, and then close again. Didnt the fly-high vent to outside the boat?

I've found that the 2 front bags don't fill at exactly the same rate, and so I have to open one vent and let it spill water into the boat while the other bag catches up. I've been told that is possible, since its not going to be exact.

What I'm planning to do, and maybe you can make it easier, is now buy the connectors that would replace the little vents to instead connect to hosing that then T's off to the tank overflows. Between the 2 front bags would be another hose, so that both front bags will balance out and then continue out to the regular overflow.

The challenge I'm having is that my understanding is that the pumps will implode the hard tanks if you're emptying and they can't get air in them, so I can't use the T-assembly check valve (#558031) to prevent the water from going into the hard tank as the bags overflow, only use the T-fitting check valve to avoid tank overflow from going into the bags. so i've got to get fancy with how the bag-overflow and tank-overflow merge, to allow me to fill the bags without overflow going back into the tanks.

someone asked me why I care about that, rather than only filling bags rather than tanks, but if that wasn't desirable, then wouldn't it be easier to just have the bags fill from the tank overflow like the flyhigh system did in the first place? For wakesurfing, there's times we like to fill the bag without the tank in the rear.

So my theory is that to make the Plug & Play be more like the flyhigh system you mention, but use the relays of the plug & play for filling, but also have some overflow out of the boat rather than having to work the mini-airvents that come with the plug & Play, we need to order 4 W743 connectors, a T-fitting for one of the front bags, and 3 558031 T-assemblies with check valves (to tie into the tank overflows), plus about 20' of 1" hose. I'm about to order those to have the flyhigh type overflow system, so since you mentioned that plug and play is already like the flyhigh, maybe you can confirm what that difference is?

Also by the way, the plug & play also replaces the timers with relays, which means that the switches don't light and you don't have the overheat protection, the flashing lite codes, or the ability to set the timers with the DIG, etc. Or are they going back to leaving the timers in boats that get the plug & play? rumor was that they took out the timers because they were too hard to set when you had bags, but I still think that was more of an issue before the Big Dig, which then made it that you don't have to toggle timer settings, but simply enter it right into the display. (new in 2010 models).

Knowing the parts to give overflow to outside of boat from the bags would be helpful (rather than manually opening the front vent to allow one bag to overflow into boat while other bag catches up), do you think its the part #s I listed above?

jason@wakemakers.com
12-21-2010, 06:47 PM
Actually, didn't your flyhigh system normally vent? the plug & play uses the little hand-vents, that you must open to release the air, and then close again. Didnt the fly-high vent to outside the boat?
You're absolutely right, and I suppose I should have been more careful with my response. I was referring to how the bow bags are setup for filling, which is identical between the two systems.

FYI, those Air Release plugs are only for purging air from the system, and should only need to be used once after you connect the bags to the system. According to Mastercraft you do not need to worry about venting the system, as the Jabsco pumps do not generate enough pressure to damage the bags in the system.

I've found that the 2 front bags don't fill at exactly the same rate, and so I have to open one vent and let it spill water into the boat while the other bag catches up. I've been told that is possible, since its not going to be exact.
They should fill at close to the same rate, but because of the difference between the hose lengths and routing to reach the bags, it won't be perfect. Again, according to Mastercraft directly you can just let the system fill until both bags are maxed out without any damage.

What I'm planning to do, and maybe you can make it easier, is now buy the connectors that would replace the little vents to instead connect to hosing that then T's off to the tank overflows. Between the 2 front bags would be another hose, so that both front bags will balance out and then continue out to the regular overflow.

The challenge I'm having is that my understanding is that the pumps will implode the hard tanks if you're emptying and they can't get air in them, so I can't use the T-assembly check valve (#558031) to prevent the water from going into the hard tank as the bags overflow, only use the T-fitting check valve to avoid tank overflow from going into the bags. so i've got to get fancy with how the bag-overflow and tank-overflow merge, to allow me to fill the bags without overflow going back into the tanks.
That's all accurate, and makes perfect sense. An easier solution would be to install dedicated vents for the Plug & Play system, but that obviously involves drilling additional holes in the boat, which some people aren't will to do.

someone asked me why I care about that, rather than only filling bags rather than tanks, but if that wasn't desirable, then wouldn't it be easier to just have the bags fill from the tank overflow like the flyhigh system did in the first place? For wakesurfing, there's times we like to fill the bag without the tank in the rear.
I can honestly say we've never found it desirable, from a wake quality or performance perspective, to be able to fill the bag without first filling the hard tank. That's why the add on system works the way it does with the check valves. If being able to fill the bag without the tank full is important to you, then you're correct, you will have to get more creative with the implementation of the system. Let me know if that's critical and we can come up with a solution for you.

So my theory is that to make the Plug & Play be more like the flyhigh system you mention, but use the relays of the plug & play for filling, but also have some overflow out of the boat rather than having to work the mini-airvents that come with the plug & Play, we need to order 4 W743 connectors, a T-fitting for one of the front bags, and 3 558031 T-assemblies with check valves (to tie into the tank overflows), plus about 20' of 1" hose. I'm about to order those to have the flyhigh type overflow system, so since you mentioned that plug and play is already like the flyhigh, maybe you can confirm what that difference is?
Correct, in order for the Plug & Play system to vent like the Fly High Add On you would need to order the following:

- 4x W743
- 4x W746
- 1x 1" Hose Barb Tee
- 3x T-Assembly Check Valves (these aren't listed on our site, but we do have them, they're $19.95)
- 20x 1" hose
- 8x 1" hose clamps

Of course that's still going to leave you with the issue you mentioned above for draining, so you probably don't want to go that route if being able to fill the bag and not the tank is important.

Also by the way, the plug & play also replaces the timers with relays, which means that the switches don't light and you don't have the overheat protection, the flashing lite codes, or the ability to set the timers with the DIG, etc. Or are they going back to leaving the timers in boats that get the plug & play? rumor was that they took out the timers because they were too hard to set when you had bags, but I still think that was more of an issue before the Big Dig, which then made it that you don't have to toggle timer settings, but simply enter it right into the display. (new in 2010 models).
Timers are be replaced on all boats with a new system that I can't publicly talk about yet, but it will be much more functional, and will encompass a number of significant changes to the ballast system.

Knowing the parts to give overflow to outside of boat from the bags would be helpful (rather than manually opening the front vent to allow one bag to overflow into boat while other bag catches up), do you think its the part #s I listed above?
Review my responses and then let me know what you're thinking. The way I see it, here are your options:

- Do nothing and use the system like Mastercraft instructs (leaving the Air Release plugs closed during filling).
- Install the Fly High style overflows and live with always filling the tank before filling the rear bag (this is what I would do).
- Install the overflows without any check valves, which will work reasonably well most of the time.
- Install new dedicated thru-hulls in the boat for the bags to vent through.

Hopefully that helps,

Jason

vision
12-21-2010, 07:55 PM
Timers are be replaced on all boats with a new system that I can't publicly talk about yet, but it will be much more functional, and will encompass a number of significant changes to the ballast system.

Jason

New OEM equipment or aftermarket equipment, and can you suggest a time frame without violating your non-disclosure agreement? ;)

jason@wakemakers.com
12-21-2010, 08:10 PM
New OEM, and it will be installed in all boats made after 2010 but before before 2020. Does that help? ;)

ShawnB
12-22-2010, 12:22 AM
what about boats currently in production? If you can't answer, of course, I understand.

TallRedRider
12-22-2010, 12:49 AM
I can honestly say we've never found it desirable, from a wake quality or performance perspective, to be able to fill the bag without first filling the hard tank. That's why the add on system works the way it does with the check valves. If being able to fill the bag without the tank full is important to you, then...

I have heard some guys state that they like to do this on the Xstar because the rear tanks are too far to the rear and that by filling the sacks without the tanks, they can distribute the weight more forward.

But I agree with you, Jason. I would just plug things into the overflow and if the back were too heavy, I would fill the front with more weight.

jason@wakemakers.com
12-22-2010, 06:04 PM
what about boats currently in production? If you can't answer, of course, I understand.
No, current production will continue as is. Mastercraft will make the announcement as soon as they can. I think this is getting blown out of proportion though, the basic functionality will remain the same, so I certainly wouldn't hold off on ordering a boat just for these changes.

I have heard some guys state that they like to do this on the Xstar because the rear tanks are too far to the rear and that by filling the sacks without the tanks, they can distribute the weight more forward.
That makes sense, but I'm with you, start with weight as far back in the boat as you can, and then add whatever you need up front to lengthen the wake. There's no down side to having more weight for surfing. :)

Justjoe
12-22-2010, 08:34 PM
I would LOVE to can the hard bags and just have sacs that are shaped to FILL the back quarters. Emptying is a nightmare, the gauges are useless.

If it were a soft bag, I would be able to see just how much is left (way more manageable). Even better, if it was soft AND there was a top fitting, I could throw a tsunami pump on it and turbo unload.

Oh, oh, oh.... And I want low side fittings. I'm thinking an additional pump that would shift water from one side to the other would be T*TS!!

vision
12-22-2010, 08:45 PM
I would LOVE to can the hard bags and just have sacs that are shaped to FILL the back quarters. Emptying is a nightmare, the gauges are useless.

If it were a soft bag, I would be able to see just how much is left (way more manageable). Even better, if it was soft AND there was a top fitting, I could throw a tsunami pump on it and turbo unload.

Oh, oh, oh.... And I want low side fittings. I'm thinking an additional pump that would shift water from one side to the other would be T*TS!!

We disconnected the hoses from the rear ballast tanks in our 08 X-star and just have the pumps directly fill the fly high sacs. If you are not running slammed (not running 3K or more weight) then having the weight in the bags, which are centered much farther back than the tanks, gives you a better wake shape IMHO.

Justjoe
12-22-2010, 09:19 PM
I'm driving an X2 goofy side surf with the occasional idiot that wants the other side of the boat.

Oh heck, and since it's Christmas, I want to to change my tranny to spin the prop the other way (to clean it up a bit on the righteous side).

Lately, we are filling the starboard rear full plus mcx plus full integrated front plus an 800 on the seat behind the driver.