PDA

View Full Version : More Fake a Lake/Intake and Perko Q's


Archimedes
10-08-2009, 09:12 PM
So I tried to use a Fake a Lake for the first time in 15 years tonight. Makes me nervous starting my boat out of water. I understand my raw water intake is the flat brass intake towards the mid-back on my X-1, not the semicircular one towards the front (ballasts I understand). Hook the Fake a Lake up, start her up, let her run about 15 seconds, a bit of water is leaking around the FAL but I'm pretty sure a lot is going in, but nothing is coming out the back. Shut her down. Check everything, do it again, same thing. Eventually some water comes out one of the port side drain holes (***?)

What am I doing wrong? Does it take longer than 30 seconds for water to pump through and out the exhaust? I used to run my 190 on a FAL every week and never had a problem, but I can't recall how long it took for water to cycle through.

Thinking I need to just do an inline Perko flush. Can anyone confirm the size diameter I need?

Hrkdrivr
10-08-2009, 09:16 PM
Sounds like you might have filled a ballast tank instead of running water through your engine?

Archimedes
10-08-2009, 09:18 PM
If so, the intake is not the flat one...

I'm 99.9% sure the rear fitting is the raw water intake, as I followed the hose inside the boat, but there is still a small chance I got it wrong.

I posted a question last week and the answer everyone gave was that it was the back one, not the semicircular one.

Hrkdrivr
10-08-2009, 09:25 PM
If you followed the hose from the raw-water impeller to the thru-hull fitting, you should have the right spot. I'm not familiar with your boat, but I know some boats' raw-water intake fittings are hidden by the bunks when on the trailer.

Do you have two thru-hull fittings (visible from inside the boat) near each other in the same area? If so, your raw-water intake might be hidden.

What's got me confused is the water coming out the side-discharge holes if it's not overflow from a ballast tank. Did you turn the key to ON to see if your ballast gauges show any water onboard?

JimN
10-08-2009, 10:16 PM
So I tried to use a Fake a Lake for the first time in 15 years tonight. Makes me nervous starting my boat out of water. I understand my raw water intake is the flat brass intake towards the mid-back on my X-1, not the semicircular one towards the front (ballasts I understand). Hook the Fake a Lake up, start her up, let her run about 15 seconds, a bit of water is leaking around the FAL but I'm pretty sure a lot is going in, but nothing is coming out the back. Shut her down. Check everything, do it again, same thing. Eventually some water comes out one of the port side drain holes (***?)

What am I doing wrong? Does it take longer than 30 seconds for water to pump through and out the exhaust? I used to run my 190 on a FAL every week and never had a problem, but I can't recall how long it took for water to cycle through.

Thinking I need to just do an inline Perko flush. Can anyone confirm the size diameter I need?

Look at the raw water intake from the inside of the boat and where the hose for the motor is located. Make note of where it is in relation to the rudder. The others are farther forward.

IMO, the FAL is useless and I never trusted them. I would rather connect it to a hose than trust the FAL to stay in place or make a good seal.

Archimedes
10-08-2009, 10:31 PM
Look at the raw water intake from the inside of the boat and where the hose for the motor is located. Make note of where it is in relation to the rudder. The others are farther forward.

IMO, the FAL is useless and I never trusted them. I would rather connect it to a hose than trust the FAL to stay in place or make a good seal.

I have three things on the bottom of my boat. Port side I have what I assume is the speedo pickup. Starboard side I have two through hull intakes about 8 inches apart. Forward one is dome shaped and slits, the rear one is flat with lots of holes in it. I was under the impression that the forward one was the ballast intake and the rearward one was the raw water intake for the motor. Best I can tell from looking in the engine box is that the rear one attaches to a hose that travels to the stern under the motor, I assume to the water pump.

JimN
10-08-2009, 11:13 PM
I have three things on the bottom of my boat. Port side I have what I assume is the speedo pickup. Starboard side I have two through hull intakes about 8 inches apart. Forward one is dome shaped and slits, the rear one is flat with lots of holes in it. I was under the impression that the forward one was the ballast intake and the rearward one was the raw water intake for the motor. Best I can tell from looking in the engine box is that the rear one attaches to a hose that travels to the stern under the motor, I assume to the water pump.

Go into the bilge, remove the raw water hose and stick a wire through the hull fitting, so someone can look at it and tell you where it is.

thatsmrmastercraft
10-09-2009, 12:20 AM
Once you determine which intake to connect to, continue as you have with the exception of once you have the engine running and the water on, rev the engine up to 2000 - 2500 rpm once or twice. That should get you a healthy shot of water out the exhaust. Consider how much water is going into the engine and divide by two to figure how much water will come out each exhaust outlet. Use plenty of water once you have the engine running. Good luck.

MariStar-Man
10-09-2009, 01:08 AM
I always thought Archemedes was a Smart guy...:rolleyes:


hahah Just messin with ya...

http://numbers.computation.free.fr/Constants/Pi/archimedes.jpg

I used the Perko thingy...Now I just connect to this:

MariStar-Man
10-09-2009, 01:12 AM
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x203/DocHoliday1964/1999%20Maristar/Parts%20and%20Engine/DSC01138.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x203/DocHoliday1964/1999%20Maristar/Parts%20and%20Engine/DSC01145.jpg

From the PERKO, I ran a male hose to Female so don't have to open the engine compartment. I remove seat cushion and tray and connect here:


http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x203/DocHoliday1964/Pics%20as%20of%208-2009/DSC01315.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x203/DocHoliday1964/1999%20Maristar/Parts%20and%20Engine/DSC01149.jpg

jason@wakemakers.com
10-09-2009, 02:48 AM
You had the hose on the wrong thru-hull so it's a good thing you didn't run it for too long or rev it to 2500 RPM like an above poster suggested (which should never be done on a hose).

The intake for the raw water pump is a scupper type fitting and has a grate with straight lines in it. The intake for the ballast system is a mushroom type fitting and has a grate with multiple holes on it.

TMCNo1
10-09-2009, 05:53 AM
Forward one is dome shaped and slits, should be the one.

mayo93prostar
10-09-2009, 06:45 AM
heck, you tried the rear one, try the front one and see if water comes out the exhaust. it should take no more than about 30 seconds to get water out the exhaust. I use the perko flush tool because you can see the water going in through the clear tube.

Thrall
10-09-2009, 09:17 AM
Yeah, you got the wrong one. The grate with slotted holes is the engine raw water intake. The one that looks like a tub drain is the ballast, follow the hoses. The ballast hose should look corrugated. The rw hose is heavy duty rubber.
I wouldn't reccomend wasting your money on a Perko flush pro. I bought one and they look pretty cheesy. Furthermore, the little spring loaded one way valve looks like it could get stuck easily of you sucked up some cr@p in the intake. Either get a 1-1/4 hose barb tee that you can rig a garden hose fitting onto, or just pull the raw water line and stick a hose in it.
If you still want a flush pro, I'll sell you mine at a discount, seriously. I'm going to take it off before I run teh boat next year.

Thrall
10-09-2009, 09:19 AM
MS man,
Holy carp, $109.99 for the flush pro?? Skidim sells them for like $57 and that seems expensive. Find a new parts place!

thatsmrmastercraft
10-09-2009, 09:22 AM
You had the hose on the wrong thru-hull so it's a good thing you didn't run it for too long or rev it to 2500 RPM like an above poster suggested (which should never be done on a hose).

The intake for the raw water pump is a scupper type fitting and has a grate with straight lines in it. The intake for the ballast system is a mushroom type fitting and has a grate with multiple holes on it.

What possible reason could you come up with for not goosing the throttle once or twice while running on a hose?

MariStar-Man
10-09-2009, 09:24 AM
2500 RPM like an above poster suggested (which should never be done on a hose).

I read somewhere, where it said never go past 1100 RPM's on a Hose type device, whether it's Perko or Fake-a-Lake.

Also, Don't allow water from the hose to put pressure in Engine without it running. You know, like when you do connect hose to Engine and turn water on, and then walk to boat, hop in and get to seat, and finally start engine. It can damage something Big Time. I forgot exactly what it does... I only try to remember the important stuff...:D

I use this, so I don't have to run back and forth. It's better to Start engine, and within 3 seconds, flip switch for water

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41IqEeWaZbL._SL500_AA280_.jpg

MariStar-Man
10-09-2009, 09:28 AM
MS man,
Holy carp, $109.99 for the flush pro?? Skidim sells them for like $57 and that seems expensive. Find a new parts place! It was one of my NEWB moves...However, I had to return the first one because it had a small Stress Hole and leaked. So, it was nice to drive 5 miles to get another...


What possible reason could you come up with for not goosing the throttle once or twice while running on a hose?

I have done it a couple of times. I think it's because your on limited pressure from the house, and if while revving, the High Performance Top Of The Line Engine(:D) could possibly suck more water than the hose can provide...I wanted to use my intelligent and professional words today.

By the way, My Hose did stay Fat...

thatsmrmastercraft
10-09-2009, 09:28 AM
The water pressure will fill the exhaust manifolds and force some water past open exhaust valves into the oil pan.

If you have ever had a carb rebuilt and/or tuned, don't think that the person doing the carb work never exceeded 1100 rpm. Certainly not for a long period of time, but with ample water supply, there is nothing wrong with a couple bumps of the throttle.

thatsmrmastercraft
10-09-2009, 09:31 AM
I have done it a couple of times. I think it's because your on limited pressure from the house, and if while revving, the High Performance Top Of The Line Engine(:D) could possibly suck more water than the hose can provide...I wanted to use my intelligent and professional words today.

By the way, My Hose did stay Fat...

I am very impressed by intelligent and professional words.

sebita
10-09-2009, 10:25 AM
Hello,
how about setting a BIG bucket of water outside of the boat and just let the intake hose (previously extended) do its job of sucking the water/anti-freeze?
Would this work?
Cheers
Seb

Archimedes
10-09-2009, 10:27 AM
Forward one is dome shaped and slits, should be the one.

Good thing I only ran it for about 20 seconds. Funny thing is I researched this and it seems 65% of the people think it's the back one and 35% of the people think it's the front one. By looking inside the engine box and lining it up, I'd swear the heavy duty hose that runs to the motor is coming off the back intake (flat one, not the domed).

JimN
10-09-2009, 10:50 AM
Good thing I only ran it for about 20 seconds. Funny thing is I researched this and it seems 65% of the people think it's the back one and 35% of the people think it's the front one. By looking inside the engine box and lining it up, I'd swear the heavy duty hose that runs to the motor is coming off the back intake (flat one, not the domed).

It's hard to get a bead on what's where from the inside when one or the other may be hidden by the motor. That's why I recommended removing the hose and sticking something out so it can be seen from outside. The raw water pickup should be domed with slits.

A garden hose will be OK to run it on at idle but no higher RPM- the raw water pump can move more water than the hose can supply. I used a 5 gallon drinking water bottle at the first dealer and had a larger container at the second. That way, I was able to rev it higher without starving the motor. 1-1/4" hose isn't terribly expensive and after setting it up a few times, it becomes a faster process.

Archimedes
10-09-2009, 11:44 AM
Now my question is, could I have done any damage to my ballast pump/impeller by running water in that intake without the pumps on...

TMCNo1
10-09-2009, 12:01 PM
Now my question is, could I have done any damage to my ballast pump/impeller by running water in that intake without the pumps on...


My question would be, what shape is the raw water pump impeller in now that it has been run even for 15 seconds w/o water.

Archimedes
10-09-2009, 12:43 PM
Yeah, that's concern #2. I'm gonna have a quick chat with my service manager today before I try the front intake.

EDIT: Just spoke to my SM. Said my impeller should be fine, as should the ballast tanks. Confirmed the front intake was the correct one. We'll see how it pumps water later today.

DooSPX
10-09-2009, 01:31 PM
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x203/DocHoliday1964/1999%20Maristar/Parts%20and%20Engine/DSC01138.jpg

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x203/DocHoliday1964/1999%20Maristar/Parts%20and%20Engine/DSC01145.jpg

From the PERKO, I ran a male hose to Female so don't have to open the engine compartment. I remove seat cushion and tray and connect here:





I made something like that many moons ago for my 91. a valve before the trans cooler with a hose connection with a cap. works great!!!

TallRedRider
10-09-2009, 01:39 PM
Good thing I only ran it for about 20 seconds. Funny thing is I researched this and it seems 65% of the people think it's the back one and 35% of the people think it's the front one. By looking inside the engine box and lining it up, I'd swear the heavy duty hose that runs to the motor is coming off the back intake (flat one, not the domed).

On my 06 X45 the ballast is in front of the raw water intake. But it is easier to tell since they are like 3 feet apart.

But my ballast is the more flat one with round holes in it and the raw water intake is the one with the slits, just like others have chimed in.

BTW, don't foget to empty the ballast tanks, now that you have them filled up. ;)

Archimedes
10-09-2009, 04:54 PM
How much water should be coming out your prop shaft when you've got the boat on a hose? I thought it was a drip seal and only minimal water got through, but I had a steady stream coming out. Not a gusher, but far from a drip.

Hrkdrivr
10-09-2009, 05:14 PM
How much water should be coming out your prop shaft when you've got the boat on a hose? I thought it was a drip seal and only minimal water got through, but I had a steady stream coming out. Not a gusher, but far from a drip.

Quite a bit comes out of mine too. I had this happen too and it worried me but it's normal. Some of the water is routed there for lubrication and is dumped overboard.

Hrkdrivr
10-09-2009, 05:16 PM
The water pressure will fill the exhaust manifolds and force some water past open exhaust valves into the oil pan.

Now this is something I wish I had known before. I never read anything about this; I'm glad you brought this up.

TMCNo1
10-09-2009, 05:24 PM
The water pressure will fill the exhaust manifolds and force some water past open exhaust valves into the oil pan.

Now this is something I wish I had known before. I never read anything about this; I'm glad you brought this up.


I'm still trying to figure it out???????????:confused::rolleyes:

Hrkdrivr
10-09-2009, 05:27 PM
I'm still trying to figure it out???????????:confused::rolleyes:

Yeah...it seems like the water would just drain out the mufflers, but I guess since they are RISERS, the water could flow downhill towards the valves instead of downhill out the mufflers. I'm not familiar with where the water enters the exhaust system.

88 PS190
10-09-2009, 05:30 PM
I've always placed a 5 gallon bucket in the open engine box behind the engine, put the hose into it, removed the hose from the transmission cooler, put a peice of radiator hose from it into the bucket, start hose, prime engine by aiming into hose till hose overflows (not under pressure) then hose into bucket and engine start. You can rev if you want because you can watch your water level in the bucket. At full idle on our hose the bucket slowly fills, so I hang around and give it a little throttle so it doesn't overfill, and back off so it doesn't run dry.

And you have to pull that hose anyhow to check for junk on the strainer in the cooler.

JimN
10-09-2009, 05:49 PM
My question would be, what shape is the raw water pump impeller in now that it has been run even for 15 seconds w/o water.

15 seconds shouldn't do much to it unless it was revved up.

bobx1
10-09-2009, 05:55 PM
Now this is something I wish I had known before. I never read anything about this; I'm glad you brought this up.

Last time I dropped my boat off for an oil change, one of the MC Techs had just put a fake-a-lake on a boat, walked over to the water source, turned it on, walked back to the boat, got in the boat, then cranked - he was moving at Rosie O'Donnel speed and all the while, the water was pouring into the boat. I know the guy that has the boat and he has never had any engine issues.

If you are not supposed to turn the water on until the engine is cranked, then I assume you better be careful towing it with the engine off.

My Jet Ski manual says to make sure you do not turn on the water until the engine has been cranked.

JimN
10-09-2009, 06:10 PM
Last time I dropped my boat off for an oil change, one of the MC Techs had just put a fake-a-lake on a boat, walked over to the water source, turned it on, walked back to the boat, got in the boat, then cranked - he was moving at Rosie O'Donnel speed and all the while, the water was pouring into the boat. I know the guy that has the boat and he has never had any engine issues.

If you are not supposed to turn the water on until the engine is cranked, then I assume you better be careful towing it with the engine off.

My Jet Ski manual says to make sure you do not turn on the water until the engine has been cranked.

I can't think of a single place water could have used to exit the motor and go into the boat from having a FAL on it. If the petcock/knock sensor weren't installed or the hoses were off, yes but if everything is in place, you should have had zero water going in. The boat can be towed or sitting in place and it should have no water coming in and it can be started with the FAL hose running. A Sea Doo or other PWC can ingest water when the hose is connected but on the water, it doesn't have enough positive hydraulic pressure to do the same thing. An inboard doesn't care if it's in the water- it should have no water getting into the boat.