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redrobster78
10-06-2009, 08:54 PM
So heres my question... my MC is up on a lift in central MI. For various reasons we haven't been up there in the past month and can't get up there for another week to take it out and winterize it. Should I be concerned that this Friday to next Tuesday is suppose to have night time lows around 30's? I just want to make sure that I won't be cracking the block or anything with it getting that cold out.

Thanks!

JimN
10-06-2009, 09:00 PM
I would have someone drain the block, remove the hoses from the raw water pump, drain the exhaust manifolds and crank it over to clear out the water in the raw water pump. Just to be safe.

Is it in the water or on a lift? If it's in the water, it's safer than being on a lift because the water won't cool as fast as the air.

Ryan
10-06-2009, 09:00 PM
I wouldn't be too worried if it's in the 30's for the low. Getting into the high 20's at night I'd start getting concerned.

redrobster78
10-06-2009, 09:02 PM
Its sitting up on a lift.

trickskier
10-06-2009, 09:10 PM
It really depends on how long it stays below 32 degrees. But to be safe I would do as JimN has recommended.

redrobster78
10-06-2009, 09:17 PM
I guess the main problem is I can't get up there to do any of these things and when I do get up there I'll just take it out.

Would it be better if I could get someone to run it a few days before I can get it out or just let it be on the lift?

trickskier
10-06-2009, 09:23 PM
Do you know anyone close that can do the things JimN has recommended?

trickskier
10-06-2009, 09:25 PM
It's pretty simple to drain the manifolds & take the drain plug out of the block.

3event
10-06-2009, 09:31 PM
Don't forget ballast lines/pumps/tanks if you have them.

Ben
10-06-2009, 09:48 PM
Running it won't help much, unless they are running it at 2 in the morning. If you can have someone run it, can said person instead drain the block & hoses? Low 30's you probably don't have to worry about the hoses, just the block & manifolds - 4 locations. If that is too technical, another option would be to have them lower the lift such that the boat is partially in the water - maybe a few cranks up from floating. This way the 55 deg (or so) water keeps the boat warm from the bottom up. I would think this would allow for high 20's for air temp, but I have no such data points.

Thrall
10-07-2009, 12:32 AM
Or have someone throw a couple halogen lights in under the cover. One under the engine hatch (V drive) or a trouble light under a DD engine box and another light in the boat to keep the heater and or ballast from freezing. Pull up the seat(s) or whatever to get teh warmer air to the hidden stuff. Make sure they're smaert enough to keep from burning the boat down.
I'd be a bit nervous, but if they're only predicting low 30's avg for the area, it'll still be a little warmer right on the water. Around here, in the mtns, the temps vary widely from what's predicted. Not so much in the midwest unless you get a clear night when the weatherman thinks it'll be cloudy.

thatsmrmastercraft
10-07-2009, 01:08 AM
Whatever you do, don't put halogen lights in an enclosed area like that. They get way too hot and are likely to at best melt something, and at worst burn the whole thing down.

Putting it in the water is probably the simplest thing to do. The other simple thing would be to use a magnetic block heater. If you have someone who can lower the boat, you might be better served if they can pick up a heater and whack it on the side of the block.

The old dipstick heater will work too if you have a straight stick and can find one.

Witness140
10-07-2009, 04:01 AM
It takes more than a couple hours in the low 30's to freeze stuff. If you don't think it's true, leave a bottled water outside for a couple nights where it dips from highs of the day around 50 to the low 30's at night. It won't be an ice cube in the morning at 6 am. And lets go worst case and say it started to freeze - the bottle won't be a solid chunk of expanded ice that would break stuff.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be cautious and at least try to drain everything, but let's be a little bit realistic here and not get you all frieked out.

Also - someone mentioned that running it won't do much good. If you took that same bottle of water and heated it to about 150 degrees around 8 pm - and then left it outside all night as the temp dropped from 50 to the low 30's briefly....let's really be realistic and say that yes - it will help a whole bunch. It takes much longer to cool something from being heat soaked than it does from being 'cold' soaked in the 50's or even 60's. The bottle of water is probably more representative of something like a cold water shower feed line, certainly not a passageway through an engine block that is warmed around it. Then there is the entire discussion about radiational cooling, and wind, etc. Well, that's also worst case, but let's consider the lake that is less than 4 feet under the hull - still well above freezing. And then the fact that when the weathermen say the temps are in the 30's at night - they aren't talking about the temps within 4 feet vertically of a lake that is still 55 degrees. Then the fact that the engine sits inside the hull, inside an insulated motor box, underneath vinyl. Yeah - if it's windy it will cool down fast, but I wouldn't have a heart attack unless it was gusting to 25 and the ambient temp was in the 20's for hours.

A friend of mine that bought my old CC left his boat in the driveway un-winterized one fall/winter. It took nights that dipped into the teens from daytime highs of 35 to destroy that engine. Although the destruction was complete and devastating.

Tend to it, and run it if possible, but don't have a heart attack, get speeding tickets, cause a divorce, lose a job, etc in the process. It will be ok.

kkkeating
10-07-2009, 09:25 AM
The cost of having the block freeze is not worth the cost of not doing anything. Predicting what will happen temperature wise next Tuesday is a reach, and the weather could change such that the temps could drop low enough to cause problems. I'd hate to see the weather report change on Monday and predict the lows to be in the teens on Tuesday. As you have electricity at the lift, I'd purchase a magnetic block heater(around $50.00) and an extension cord , ship it overnight and have someone attached it to the block and plug it in. Or try to contact a local mechanic and pay to have it done.

wiltok
10-07-2009, 07:57 PM
I wouldn't worry about it - my boat has been on a lift for years late into the fall (I live in SouthWest Michigan). Look at it this way - the water temperature is still around 58 degrees. Voila - there is your heater. Even though your boat is not literally in the water it is probably only a foot or two above. The temperature in the boat is moderated by the water. I did some experiments years ago - put a temperature gauge in the engine compartment during cold nights and it never got close to freezing. DISCLAIMER: I am not advising you to not drain your block - just telling you my experience. If your block cracks don't blame me! :)

Cloaked
10-07-2009, 08:06 PM
A 100w light bulb under the engine cover will raise the temp enough to keep it above 32 deg F, if the low 30s is all it is predicted. That said, I'd still not worry about low 30s for one night.

If someone is around, an extension cord on a timer is all it takes, or a few trips back and forth.

However, the other suggestions of draining is a better-safe-than-sorry idea. At 30 - 32 with a good bit of room for expansion, it's a good chance it won't freeze much at all.

$0.02


I too have used a wireless temp sensor under the engine cover (thus the insight of the 100w bulb). It shouldn't freeze.

TX.X-30 fan
10-07-2009, 08:53 PM
Takes extended hours below 20, no way it will freeze at freezing.

JimN
10-07-2009, 09:04 PM
Takes extended hours below 20, no way it will freeze at freezing.

How could it not freeze at freezing? Ice crystals start to form at 39F. Unless there's something in the water that changes the freezing point, it will freeze at about 32F.

After working on many boats that were stored without draining, with the best of intentions, they froze anyway. I wouldn't trust an electrical solution 100% and I definitely wouldn't trust the meteorologists on TV. Things happen and if a sudden cold snap shows up, it's gonna be toast.

TX.X-30 fan
10-07-2009, 09:06 PM
How could it not freeze at freezing? Ice crystals start to form at 39F. Unless there's something in the water that changes the freezing point, it will freeze at about 32F.



The little amout of water in the blocks water jacket will freeze at 32 outside air temp??

SunCoast 83
10-07-2009, 09:16 PM
Dont know...live in Florida. My parents live in Midland, I know it gets brutally cold. Been there for many of them.....

Would running it that evening, heating up the block and putting a cover on the boat in the lift help to create a warm greenhouse to get it through one night?

JimN
10-07-2009, 09:20 PM
The little amout of water in the blocks water jacket will freeze at 32 outside air temp??

A little freezes faster than a lot. Once the cast iron loses enough heat, the water will have lost enough to assume the same temperature. It depends on the temperature differential and the time allowed at the low temperature.

redrobster78
10-08-2009, 12:16 PM
So if I can get someone to do the bare min. what would that be? Draining the block? I've never done that so could someone run me thru that on an 07 x2...

Thanks!

bigmac
10-08-2009, 12:35 PM
So if I can get someone to do the bare min. what would that be? Draining the block? I've never done that so could someone run me thru that on an 07 x2...

Thanks!

Drain the block, drain the exhaust manifolds, detach the lower raw water hose (the one between transmission cooler and raw water pump and let it drain. Don't forget to blow out all the water from the heater core, if you have one.

carracer
10-08-2009, 12:46 PM
get this someone to wrap the engine with a electric blanket turn on low

redrobster78
10-08-2009, 03:22 PM
I know it sounds simple but to someone who has never done it before how do you drain the manifolds & take the drain plug out of the block? Anyone have pictures to go along with "how to drain your block for dummbies?" My brother will be up there for the weekend and he has a bit of car experience so I think he can do it but he hasn't ever worked on boats. So any pictures will help!

Thanks yet again!

JimN
10-08-2009, 03:49 PM
I know it sounds simple but to someone who has never done it before how do you drain the manifolds & take the drain plug out of the block? Anyone have pictures to go along with "how to drain your block for dummbies?" My brother will be up there for the weekend and he has a bit of car experience so I think he can do it but he hasn't ever worked on boats. So any pictures will help!

Thanks yet again!

It's a car motor- it drains the same as a regular motor. One side has a petcock and the other has a knock sensor with a wire on it. The wire comes off and a 3/4" wrench will remove the sensor. When it goes back in, it needs to be finger tight and then tighten it another 3/4 turn- that's all. Over-tightening the knock sensor will damage it and it will cause a code. The exhaust manifolds will have either a plug at the rear (rear of the manifold is the same as the rear of the motor)- these need to come out and if it has a hose with a coupler in the middle, it needs to come apart. The oil cooler has two lines attached, which go to the transmission. The large hose that needs to come off is on the end that's physically lower than the other. The cooler should also have a drain plug which can be removed but any time the hull end can be removed, it's a good time to look for debris that could restrict the raw water flow, so I'd remove the large hose. The hoses at the front of the motor can be removed at their lowest end, too. Then, crank the motor over for a few seconds to remove the water from the raw water and circulating pumps.

I don't remember seeing the model or year- that will determine what needs to be done.

redrobster78
10-08-2009, 03:53 PM
Thanks Jim, she's a 2007 x2.

Thrall
10-08-2009, 04:48 PM
Check your owners manual. My 06 owners manual has a good step by step winterization procedure for the engine and ballast.
Read the FAQ up top, couple winteriaztion procedures there and I just posted one in the $torage and Winterization thread.
What engine do you have? They're all pretty similar wrt winterizing anyway.
Your boat will have a sensor in both of the block drains. Disconnect the wires and unscrew them, use some teflon tape when you reinstall. There's a quick disconnect hose from exh manifold to exh manifold. Open that up to drain the exhaust. I didn't remove the plugs on teh bottom of the manifold, as the hose connection is just as low. If you have a heater, disconnect those lines and blow the water out. Add some antifreeze to this, some residual water may be trapped in the heater core. + what JimN said.
If you study the coolant water hoses, it will be apparent what needs to be disconnected to drain water out of low spots.
Make sure your brother cares about the boat, miss a spot and you could crack something expensive.

Just a question, unless I missed it. Is your boat going to sit on the lift all winter??? Why not have bro pull it out of the lake?
If you drain everything, you're just going to have to do it again after you pull it off the lake.

JimN
10-08-2009, 05:23 PM
FYI- it was snowing in Minnesota this morning and it's supposed to get down to 23 in the Benedict, MN area tonight.

thatsmrmastercraft
10-08-2009, 06:14 PM
Well, it is October. I had the boat out yesterday and had a hard time getting it up to 150 degrees.

SunCoast 83
10-08-2009, 07:05 PM
Ouch....89 here today. It will start cooling off in November.

justinglow
10-08-2009, 07:32 PM
It was 60 yesterday in DFW almost 90 today and now suppose to be around 58 tomorrow. Only in Texas!!!

jipster43
10-08-2009, 08:05 PM
Last Tuesday it was 82 degrees. The following Wednesday it snowed. Only in Montana!

JP :)

FamilyX2
10-08-2009, 08:22 PM
currently 23 degrees & white stuff on the ground.
:(

Age Fighter
10-08-2009, 08:37 PM
Easiest thing to do: put it in the water. Don't have to let it float free, just drop it low enough so it is in the water some. That can be done in five minutes if you or someone you know can make a quick run. That will buy you time to fully winterize it later.

cdm
10-08-2009, 09:25 PM
I was told today by my MC dealer, Action Water Sports in Hudsonville, MI that if the temp drops to 28 deg for more than 8.5 hours you should be worried. Put a drop light in the engine compartment or an electric blanket over the engine until you can get it winterized. That's what I do for that warm and fuzzy feeling this time of year!

sand2snow22
10-09-2009, 01:08 AM
Ironically I was at the lake last night to take the boat out today. Took her for a quick spin to make sure she was all charged up. Put her on the lift, with cover. It snowed a bit on the way up to the lake so I checked the weather on my blackberry. Overnight low 30 degrees. Then I saw this thread. I thought about lowering it into the water, but I didn't want the boat to float away if something went wrong with the lift. Plus, it was cloudy, so I thought the clouds would keep some heat.

Woke up this morning, 25 degrees, frost everywhere, including on the cover. Leaping from an icy dock to a frosty lift is not fun. Lowered her down, wouldn't start. I could not believe this was happening to me. I was looking at an 8 hour drive home and paddling the boat a good mile before I could start that drive.

I knew the fuel pump wasn't kicking on. I tried unplugging the ECM a couple times. I then realized the gauges weren't firing up, too. After 20 Minutes, it hit me, KILL SWITCH. I have not idea how I disturbed it, but I did. Fired right up, no sign of freeze damage. Good thing we got it out of there because tonight and tomorrow night look brutally cold........

JimN
10-09-2009, 08:33 AM
Ironically I was at the lake last night to take the boat out today. Took her for a quick spin to make sure she was all charged up. Put her on the lift, with cover. It snowed a bit on the way up to the lake so I checked the weather on my blackberry. Overnight low 30 degrees. Then I saw this thread. I thought about lowering it into the water, but I didn't want the boat to float away if something went wrong with the lift. Plus, it was cloudy, so I thought the clouds would keep some heat.

Woke up this morning, 25 degrees, frost everywhere, including on the cover. Leaping from an icy dock to a frosty lift is not fun. Lowered her down, wouldn't start. I could not believe this was happening to me. I was looking at an 8 hour drive home and paddling the boat a good mile before I could start that drive.

I knew the fuel pump wasn't kicking on. I tried unplugging the ECM a couple times. I then realized the gauges weren't firing up, too. After 20 Minutes, it hit me, KILL SWITCH. I have not idea how I disturbed it, but I did. Fired right up, no sign of freeze damage. Good thing we got it out of there because tonight and tomorrow night look brutally cold........

I hope you disconnected the battery before unplugging the ECM. NEVER unplug that with the battery connected.

Jesus_Freak
10-12-2009, 06:07 AM
...I did some experiments years ago - put a temperature gauge in the engine compartment during cold nights and it never got close to freezing....

Interesting....How cold did it get in your area, how windy did it get, and how did you monitor the gauge reading?

Jesus_Freak
10-12-2009, 06:32 AM
A little freezes faster than a lot. Once the cast iron loses enough heat, the water will have lost enough to assume the same temperature. It depends on the temperature differential and the time allowed at the low temperature.

Agreed. Just want to clarify that the "water" here is the water immediately adjacent to the cast iron walls. Depending on the size of each water cavity, the water still has some cooling to do.

To help me think through this, I am going to outline the cooling process below:

1. Depending on wind speed, cloud cover, and air temps around the boat, the boat cover (if applicable) cools in 3 dimensions at rate "R1".

2. Depending on natural convection currents under the boat cover, the engine cover outer vinyl cools in 3D at R2.

3. Depending on the thicknesses and thermal conductivities of the vinyl, foam, cover substrate, glues, and insulation, the temperature at the inner surface of the insulation cools in 3D at R3.

4. Depending on natural convection currents inside the engine cover, the outer surfaces of the engine cool in 3D at R4.

5. Depending on the thicknesses, thermal conductivities, and rust levels of various engine components, the block inner surfaces cool in 3D at R5.

6. Depending on natural convection currents inside the water cavities, the water cools in 3D at R6. Then, we have crystal formation, expansion, and damage.

I am sure I left out something here, but work with me. Although energy is conserved (despite what the media would have us believe), the rates, at any instant in time, can be large or small relative to one another. They feed forward and backward, as each one affects the others. If the wind speed and ambient temp would reach a constant value, then the rates would eventually equal one another until all water reached the ambient temp (minus a little for radiation losses). That rarely happens at contiguous US latitudes, because the ambient temp starts rising before the entire engine equilibrates.

TMCNo1
10-12-2009, 09:18 AM
Agreed. Just want to clarify that the "water" here is the water immediately adjacent to the cast iron walls. Depending on the size of each water cavity, the water still has some cooling to do.

To help me think through this, I am going to outline the cooling process below:

1. Depending on wind speed, cloud cover, and air temps around the boat, the boat cover (if applicable) cools in 3 dimensions at rate "R1".

2. Depending on natural convection currents under the boat cover, the engine cover outer vinyl cools in 3D at R2.

3. Depending on the thicknesses and thermal conductivities of the vinyl, foam, cover substrate, glues, and insulation, the temperature at the inner surface of the insulation cools in 3D at R3.

4. Depending on natural convection currents inside the engine cover, the outer surfaces of the engine cool in 3D at R4.

5. Depending on the thicknesses, thermal conductivities, and rust levels of various engine components, the block inner surfaces cool in 3D at R5.

6. Depending on natural convection currents inside the water cavities, the water cools in 3D at R6. Then, we have crystal formation, expansion, and damage.

I am sure I left out something here, but work with me. Although energy is conserved (despite what the media would have us believe), the rates, at any instant in time, can be large or small relative to one another. They feed forward and backward, as each one affects the others. If the wind speed and ambient temp would reach a constant value, then the rates would eventually equal one another until all water reached the ambient temp (minus a little for radiation losses). That rarely happens at contiguous US latitudes, because the ambient temp starts rising before the entire engine equilibrates.


Do what? You lost me at "Agreed"!

Algore says the planet is burning to a crisp, so no need to winterize anything, anywhere!:rolleyes:

Build a hot water/electric solar panel storage building to drive a electric motor for a pump to circulate hot water thru the engine and you've got a oyster steamer year around! Yea, I know, I'm nuts!:D

JimN
10-12-2009, 09:42 AM
I was just thinking that if the boat is on a lift, have it lowered into the water, run it to normal operating temperature, shut it off and raise it again. The engine compartment will be warmer, the motor will be a lot warmer and while the temperature differential is greater, it will take longer to lose that much heat. If some kind of blanket can be placed over the motor cover (like moving blankets), that should help, too.

JimN
10-12-2009, 09:46 AM
Do what? You lost me at "Agreed"!

Algore says the planet is burning to a crisp, so no need to winterize anything, anywhere!:rolleyes:

Build a hot water/electric solar panel storage building to drive a electric motor for a pump to circulate hot water thru the engine and you've got a oyster steamer year around! Yea, I know, I'm nuts!:D

Algore's opinion must be the reason the playoff game started at 32 degrees and dipped into the upper 20s last night. If he was right, it would have been short-sleeve weather all night. :rolleyes:

We it was 27F here last night and that's about 20 degrees below normal.

thatsmrmastercraft
10-12-2009, 10:24 AM
I was just thinking that if the boat is on a lift, have it lowered into the water, run it to normal operating temperature, shut it off and raise it again. The engine compartment will be warmer, the motor will be a lot warmer and while the temperature differential is greater, it will take longer to lose that much heat. If some kind of blanket can be placed over the motor cover (like moving blankets), that should help, too.

Wouldn't there be more cooling effect from the bottom of the boat with only fiberglass and gelcoat vs.a padded engine cover?

thatsmrmastercraft
10-12-2009, 10:27 AM
Algore's opinion must be the reason the playoff game started at 32 degrees and dipped into the upper 20s last night. If he was right, it would have been short-sleeve weather all night. :rolleyes:

We it was 27F here last night and that's about 20 degrees below normal.

I still believe we were only one more warm year away from having that moron for president. Don't know if that would have been better or worse than than the Nobel Peace Prize winner we have now.

JimN
10-12-2009, 12:36 PM
Wouldn't there be more cooling effect from the bottom of the boat with only fiberglass and gelcoat vs.a padded engine cover?

Depends on how the air is moving and how close the hull is to the water. If the water temperature is 60 F and the hull in in the water, the only way the motor will freeze is if there's a stady supply of extremely cold air moving across it. If the air is calm, the heat will find cold, but if the water temperature never drops below 40, the chance of the motor freezing solid are very slim. Add a blankey and the extra insulation will keep it from losing more heat at the top, where the cold is. If the boat is suspended above the water and the water can't radiate much to the hull, it will lose heat to the air in the bilge, then to the hull, then to the air. Since warm air rises, keeping the top warm will reduce convection but the cold air in the hull will cool the motor from the bottom up.

JimN
10-12-2009, 12:38 PM
I still believe we were only one more warm year away from having that moron for president. Don't know if that would have been better or worse than than the Nobel Peace Prize winner we have now.

If they were to flip a coin, they'd say "Heads, I win and tails, you lose".

Let's burn Algore at the stake and see how much carbon is left over.

Jesus_Freak
10-12-2009, 12:44 PM
I was just thinking that if the boat is on a lift, have it lowered into the water, run it to normal operating temperature, shut it off and raise it again. The engine compartment will be warmer, the motor will be a lot warmer and while the temperature differential is greater, it will take longer to lose that much heat. If some kind of blanket can be placed over the motor cover (like moving blankets), that should help, too.

Agreed. Hotter = higher loss rates, but longer to cool overall. Good call.

The air cavity between the engine and engine cover is an excellent insulator. It would be even better if it could be kept from moving around (natural convection), kinda like a double-pane window. Same for the air cavity between the engine cover and boat cover (if applicable). So, if the boat is not covered, cover it, even if the air cannot be prevented from stirring.

And...as thatsmrmastercraft pointed out....maybe slap a nasty blanket under the engine to insulate the fiberglass. Maybe that is too risky, i.e. fire, forget to remove it before starting, etc.


EDIT: JimN brings up a great point about the water underneath (depending on how close) is a good source of heat. That says, keep it close (as others have pointed out).

JimN
10-12-2009, 12:50 PM
My original point being to drain it is due to the fact that if there's no water in the motor, manifolds, pumps and hoses, the only thing that expands enough to damage the motor during freeze/thaw cycles has been removed, so the problem would go with it. The coefficient of expansion for cast iron is so small that on its own, reaching 20 degrees F vs 40 degrees F is negligible but the same can't be said for water.

Hollywood
10-12-2009, 01:56 PM
I wonder at what temperatures it would be better to leave the boat low to the water or up in the canopy protected from the wind.

JimN
10-12-2009, 02:10 PM
I wonder at what temperatures it would be better to leave the boat low to the water or up in the canopy protected from the wind.

If the water is 40 with the boat in the water, your motor won't freeze unless the motor box is wide open and the wind is blowing hard. If the water temp is 50 the night before and the boat is in the water, as long as the motor box is closed, I seriously doubt it would freeze, especially if it was warmed up before covering it. Obviously, the boat needs to be tied to the lift but if the water temperature isn't too low, it'll survive.

Wind only takes it to the air temperature if the hull is dry. Only an extremely volatile liquid will make it colder than air temperature through evaporation. Also, surface area and air infiltration make a big difference.

sand2snow22
10-12-2009, 02:55 PM
Doesn't hot water freeze faster than cold water? Warming up the boat might not be a good idea. When I was a kid we used to throw hot water on the drive way for sledding because it would freeze faster than cold water.

JimN
10-12-2009, 06:03 PM
Doesn't hot water freeze faster than cold water? Warming up the boat might not be a good idea. When I was a kid we used to throw hot water on the drive way for sledding because it would freeze faster than cold water.

No, it loses heat faster because of the temperature differential and to a large extent, the surface area exposed to the hotter or colder air/liquid and the "thermal mass". Thermal mass is why it's cooler near a large body of water in summer and colder away from it in winter. Once it gets to a more "normal" temperature, the rate slows.

JimN
10-12-2009, 06:05 PM
Doesn't hot water freeze faster than cold water? Warming up the boat might not be a good idea. When I was a kid we used to throw hot water on the drive way for sledding because it would freeze faster than cold water.

That's also a thin layer, not a large volume of water with any depth.

Witness140
10-12-2009, 09:12 PM
So after all this talk....did the block crack or was it fine?

Jesus_Freak
10-13-2009, 12:18 PM
...Only an extremely volatile liquid will make it colder than air temperature through evaporation...

Minor correction....even water (not extremely volatile compared to things like Acetone and Isopropyl alcohol, but is extremely volatile compared to things like mercury and ethylene glycol) will drop the temperature of a surface. Consider meteorological measures...wet-bulb temperature is normally lower than dry-bulb temperature.

JimN
10-13-2009, 05:51 PM
Minor correction....even water (not extremely volatile compared to things like Acetone and Isopropyl alcohol, but is extremely volatile compared to things like mercury and ethylene glycol) will drop the temperature of a surface. Consider meteorological measures...wet-bulb temperature is normally lower than dry-bulb temperature.

I didn't think we needed to get into specifics that are as fine as wet bulb/dry bulb and liquids that are nearly non-volatile at normal air temperature.

Re: extremely volatile- NAPA carb cleaner is so volatile that on a hot summer day with moderate humidity, frost forms on an aluminum flame arrestor.

thatsmrmastercraft
10-13-2009, 11:33 PM
If they were to flip a coin, they'd say "Heads, I win and tails, you lose".

Let's burn Algore at the stake and see how much carbon is left over.

Thanks for the idea - I nearly spit out my cigar from laughing so hard at your response.

Talk about a carbon footprint!

redrobster78
10-15-2009, 12:08 AM
After everything, she's out if the water and everything is just fine. I just realized I've never put up a pic so I'll do that when I'm at a computer. A little to hard to do from my phone.

Thrall
10-15-2009, 09:17 AM
After everything, she's out if the water and everything is just fine. I just realized I've never put up a pic so I'll do that when I'm at a computer. A little to hard to do from my phone.

Pheww! After 59 posts on who's right or wrong about the freezzing temp of water (it's still 32 deg) glad to see your boat survived the ordeal!:rolleyes:

Jesus_Freak
10-15-2009, 12:43 PM
Pheww! After 59 posts on who's right or wrong about the freezzing temp of water (it's still 32 deg) glad to see your boat survived the ordeal!:rolleyes:

I dont think we were discussing the freezing point being 32F +/- or not....it was the water cavity cooling rate and how to mitigate that cooling that was of interest. Your post is still funny though. :)

redrobster78
10-16-2009, 01:34 AM
Well gents here she is... an 07 x2. I took off the graphics because I didn't like what they were and I'm wanting to add something before spring... any thoughts?

ntidsl
10-16-2009, 07:20 AM
how about "procrastinator" on the side.

Thrall
10-16-2009, 09:04 AM
how about "procrastinator" on the side.

Hahahahahaha!

Put a few more red stripes on the white part and a bunch of stars on the blue (about 50:D)!