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tocoldtorace
09-29-2009, 09:52 AM
I have a ps 190 that recently bought back last year. I am really looking to start slalom skiing and have a very good friend of mine that is willing to teach. the only problem is I have a spine coming up from the wake that is pretty tall. Didn't know how to fix this. It is not a problem at long line.

Miss Rita
09-29-2009, 10:12 AM
It's hard to imagine a novice slalom skier complaining about a ProStar wake. At what speed do you notice the problem? A newbie skier should be going 25-30 mph, depending on the ski. I'd recommend using full length rope (75') or 15 off (60') until your skill improves then start worrying about the wake.

You can't change the wake very easily, so I wouldn't worry about it.

canadianskier
09-29-2009, 10:47 AM
heres my 2 cents worth, I have a `92 190 and below 30mph there is a noticeabl bumpin the wake, but if you ski at 32mph it flattens out quite nice, and at 36 there is no bump at all.

tocoldtorace
09-29-2009, 10:55 AM
I am not complaining. I have several club members that love to ski behind my boat and was wanting to get it fixed for them. I am just learning and it makes no difference to me at all. Just want my boat to be right and didn't know if i might have something wrong causing a wake problem.

TMCNo1
09-29-2009, 12:03 PM
Are you refering to the roostertail in the middle of the wake?

Jesus_Freak
09-29-2009, 01:06 PM
I am not complaining. I have several club members that love to ski behind my boat and was wanting to get it fixed for them.

For those who want it "fixed", what speed and rope length were they trying? What year is the boat?

tocoldtorace
09-29-2009, 01:17 PM
93 prostar, yes the rooster tail, we have another boat but a 92 and it does not have the rooster tail at all. just wondering if the prop would be causing this or if i had something off-centered in the boat. the one guy that said something about it was at 28 off at 34 mph. he just said that he didn't think it should be there and i was wondering what to do to fix it.

ProStar Slalom
09-29-2009, 01:33 PM
A '93 wake is hard to beat. If you don't have the boat loaded down with a bunch of people or stuff, about the only other factor would be the prop. Stock props would be 13x13 for a standard transmission, or 14x18 for a powerslot trans. Either one will create a bit of a rooster tail at various speeds, and for most speeds would be most noticeable at 22' off, but shouldn't be anything too disturbing. Take a picture next time you're out and the folks here will tell you very quickly whether what you have is normal.

tocoldtorace
09-29-2009, 01:49 PM
it is not real bad i just wondering if i could make it better. is there a thread that i can look at or a way to search for wake pictures. It is flat a pancake behind this but it is just right at the point where the two sides come together. I was wondering if a little bow weight would help this thinking that the stern maybe sitting alittle low with a load of fuel.

DooSPX
09-29-2009, 02:04 PM
It sounds like to me that your 93 is a Powerslot 1.5:1 transmission so you have the 14X18 prop. the 92 most likely is not a powerslot and may even have a CNC prop because even the 1:1 with the 13X13 had a little bump.
If you keep your ski on edge the bump even on a 1.5:1 is not that bad to go through.
A CNC 4 blade if you indeed have a powerslot trans like knock down the roostertail a little bit.
BUT the 91-94 PS 190 are considered to have the BEST slalom wakes period.
every little bit of weight counts on the wake. I can notice a difference between fuel load and having the back bench in or out and its feather light.


93 prostar, yes the rooster tail, we have another boat but a 92 and it does not have the rooster tail at all. just wondering if the prop would be causing this or if i had something off-centered in the boat. the one guy that said something about it was at 28 off at 34 mph. he just said that he didn't think it should be there and i was wondering what to do to fix it.

rodltg2
09-29-2009, 02:16 PM
there is only one way to fix the bump... get a nautique! :D

DooSPX
09-29-2009, 02:18 PM
okay, besides what Ron said :rolleyes:

russlars
09-29-2009, 02:40 PM
My hunch is that you don't have a "wake problem" at all. All of these boats have a pretty noticeable rooster tail right behind the boat which gets taller at slower speeds. However, if the "bump" is farther back and is noticeable at 34 to 36 MPH you may be able to improve this with a different prop. I went through this process of improving the wake on my 205 at 15' off this last summer. Get a hold of Eric at OJ props and he will send you a bunch of props to try out until you find the one that works well for you. For my situation I was able to improve my wake with a 4 blade CNC Prop 12.5 X 12. :twocents:

tocoldtorace
09-29-2009, 03:36 PM
guys look I know it is not bad at all. I just want my stuff to be perfect. call me anal. It has a 1-1 trans. it has a 13x13 oj three blade. don't worry about it anymore i will play with it myself. I just thought with all the expertice on this site that someone might say "yeah i had that problem and i fixed it this way." and I would not give you all the money in the world for a nautique.

DooSPX
09-29-2009, 03:53 PM
guys look I know it is not bad at all. I just want my stuff to be perfect. call me anal. It has a 1-1 trans. it has a 13x13 oj three blade. don't worry about it anymore i will play with it myself. I just thought with all the expertice on this site that someone might say "yeah i had that problem and i fixed it this way." and I would not give you all the money in the world for a nautique.

We are trying to help... well, most of us anyway.
I recommend you do two things. Take as much weight out of the boat. i.e. Rear seat (cant use it anyway when your skiing.) and call Eric from OJ props and talk to him. He will set you up with a prop that will give you more holeshot and flatten out the bump. East Texas Skier did a comparison with CNC vs Non CNC and the results on his 1:1 were almost NO bump.
Please call OJ, You WILL be happy I promise you. its the best money you can spend.

Skipper
09-29-2009, 04:08 PM
No reason to be frustrated. There have been a lot of good suggestions. The prop is the best place to start. Props can effect the size and shape of the rooster tail. The prop can also effect the dynamics of the rooster tail. If Eric would be willing to send you a number of props to try, I would jump all over it.

Weight distribution is next. I have a '95 Prostar. I never run with the back bench, keep the fuel tank below 1/2 full, and use ballast under the bow. However, too much weight in the bow is counter-productive. It is a balancing act.

Chicago190
09-29-2009, 04:18 PM
guys look I know it is not bad at all. I just want my stuff to be perfect. call me anal. It has a 1-1 trans. it has a 13x13 oj three blade. don't worry about it anymore i will play with it myself. I just thought with all the expertice on this site that someone might say "yeah i had that problem and i fixed it this way." and I would not give you all the money in the world for a nautique.

Yes, it is possible the prop is causing the problem. Different props will give different weight characteristics. There is no "fix". Wake characteristics are pretty subjective. If a new prop knocks the bump down at a certain speed/line length then it may make it worse somewhere else, widen the wake, or make the wake feel harder. It is entirely possible the guy complaining about your wake was just sking bad that day and wanted to blame it on something - I personally blame the driver but the boat and ski are 2 and 3 on the list. Other things that will generally change the wake are having less weight in the boat and putting some ballast and the very bow of the boat will tend to lift the stern a bit more.

The point is, on your boat you will be able to make small changes to the wake but:
A. wake qualities are subjective and mostly based on what you are used too. If you change it you may find you preferred the old wake.

B. your boat has one of the best wakes no matter what prop is on it. Whatever you do will probably have no effect on your ability to learn to ski.

Kevin 89MC
09-29-2009, 05:33 PM
Yep, just like what everone said, your hull is one of the best ever. All boats have a prop hump of some size somewhere, it just depends on boat speed, prop, weight, hull characteristics, transmission, etc. I ski behind a '92 once in a while, and I do notice a bump at 22 off. On my '89, it's a bit bigger, but one thing I did notice is it dropped off a fair amount when I switched from my original 3 blade to a standard 4 blade prop. I've heard a newer CNC prop would be even better yet.
Good advice on lowering the weight and re-propping, that should help an already great wake become even better. Also good advice to go long line or 15 off when free skiing and teaching, but if you're getting into slaloming, get that ski on edge through the wakes! :)
Good luck,
Kevin

Jesus_Freak
10-01-2009, 12:36 PM
My hunch is that you don't have a "wake problem" at all. All of these boats have a pretty noticeable rooster tail right behind the boat which gets taller at slower speeds. However, if the "bump" is farther back and is noticeable at 34 to 36 MPH you may be able to improve this with a different prop. I went through this process of improving the wake on my 205 at 15' off this last summer. Get a hold of Eric at OJ props and he will send you a bunch of props to try out until you find the one that works well for you. For my situation I was able to improve my wake with a 4 blade CNC Prop 12.5 X 12. :twocents:

What was your engine RPM (actual, not base) at 34.2 MPH with this prop?

russlars
10-01-2009, 01:42 PM
What was your engine RPM (actual, not base) at 34.2 MPH with this prop?
I didn't note the RPM's at that speed, but I did at 36 MPH which was around 3700 RPM if I remember correctly. It really smoothed out the wake nicely, but I lost around 2 MPH on the top end compared with my ACME 541. Ski season is probably over for us, but if I get a chance to get it out again I will let you know the exact numbers if you are interested.

tocoldtorace
10-01-2009, 04:06 PM
Thanks guys I really appreciate all the suggestions.

Jesus_Freak
10-02-2009, 01:07 PM
I didn't note the RPM's at that speed, but I did at 36 MPH which was around 3700 RPM if I remember correctly. It really smoothed out the wake nicely, but I lost around 2 MPH on the top end compared with my ACME 541. Ski season is probably over for us, but if I get a chance to get it out again I will let you know the exact numbers if you are interested.

Thank you. Yes, if you get a chance, please let me know. I estimate that a new prop is in my near future, and am eager to gauge what is going to happen without trying 1500 props. :)

carracer
10-02-2009, 02:03 PM
I am a twenty year owner of two of these models. You do not want to add bow weight MC has gone to alot of trouble to balance this boat. Probably you want to try and reduce aft weight, ( dont load the boat with to many observers) and speed up to 36 mph. At that speed it is the flatest wake out there.

Skipper
10-02-2009, 07:19 PM
I am a twenty year owner of two of these models. You do not want to add bow weight MC has gone to alot of trouble to balance this boat. Probably you want to try and reduce aft weight, ( dont load the boat with to many observers) and speed up to 36 mph. At that speed it is the flatest wake out there.

One concern in boat design is center of balance (COB). Engineers calculated the weight and placement of, literally, everything that makes up the boat, including the estimated weight of occupants. It is best to shift weight (redistribute) as apposed to adding weight. Like 'carracer' said, reduce the weight in the stern, ie. remove the rear bench seat, run half a tank of fuel or less, remove anything from storage compartments in the stern. Then, redistribute that weight to the bow.

In my '95 Prostar the rear bench seat is removed, I always run below half a tank of fuel, nothing is stored in the back of the boat. When it is just two of us in the boat, I add a ballast under the bow. I notice the subtle changes in the attitude of the boat with weight distribution.

As for running at 36mph...that is one of the advantages to mens 3, 34mph. Still a great wake:D

wakesurfer
10-02-2009, 10:58 PM
lets say I wanted a bigger wake is there a prop best suited for that?

Jesus_Freak
10-03-2009, 05:09 AM
lets say I wanted a bigger wake is there a prop best suited for that?

While I have never been interested in making wakes larger, I would make an educated guess that the effects of the prop become less important as the wake grows. A wakesurfing wake, for example, would be beyond the point of prop influence.

Skipper
10-03-2009, 09:59 AM
lets say I wanted a bigger wake is there a prop best suited for that?

A prop connected to the drive shaft of an MC 300...:D

Chicago190
10-03-2009, 11:31 AM
lets say I wanted a bigger wake is there a prop best suited for that?

Wake size pretty much depends on how much of the hull you sink into the water, i.e. how much weight is in the boat. The prop will not have a significant effect on the wake size, but if you run a lot of weight you may need to re-prop the boat to improve acceleration.

wakesurfer
10-28-2009, 08:04 PM
Thanks it makes sense what you guys are saying and I appreciate your time.

Panda Cub
10-29-2009, 12:28 PM
there is only one way to fix the bump... get a nautique! :D

I don't know about anyone else out there, but every tournament I've ever skied in I take the nautique for trick and jump; and the mastercraft for slalom.

If there is the option

TMCNo1
10-29-2009, 01:14 PM
I don't know about anyone else out there, but every tournament I've ever skied in I take the nautique for trick and jump; and the mastercraft for slalom.

If there is the option

Unless it has changed, Class C and above tournaments, tournament approved brands are available for use, slalom and jump are used as a result of a draw by the tournament director and each skier in the division has to be pulled by the same boat (example, no boat brand changing in the middle of Men's 1) or the whole division that had skied behind the first boat gets a re-ride with the new boat, but trick is skier's choice of all tournament approved boats available and both passes are made behind the same boat that round.

Panda Cub
10-29-2009, 01:39 PM
Unless it has changed, Class C and above tournaments, tournament approved brands are available for use, slalom and jump are used as a result of a draw by the tournament director and each skier in the division has to be pulled by the same boat (example, no boat brand changing in the middle of Men's 1) or the whole division that had skied behind the first boat gets a re-ride with the new boat, but trick is skier's choice of all tournament approved boats available and both passes are made behind the same boat that round.

Well I am thinking of collegiate tournaments

TMCNo1
10-29-2009, 01:42 PM
Well I am thinking of collegiate tournaments


Should be the same rules.

Panda Cub
10-29-2009, 01:46 PM
Should be the same rules.

Maybe it's just the midwest league tournaments, but all the tournaments I've been in they gave me an option of a nautique or mastercraft. One tournament even had a malibu; I told them I'd rather swim.

woftam
10-29-2009, 04:25 PM
Should be the same rules.

They are, unless it's some wierd/casual outlaw tournament where they go out of their way to make things complicated and uneven just for the heck of it.

NCWSA tourn recently held in CA had MC's and CC's available. They ran two divisions on two ~side by side lakes. Towboat for each division was pre-selected, at least for slalom and jump. Might have had a boat choice for tricks?

Collegiate rules are available on NCWSA website and are AWSA rules with only a few changes:
*Slalom is exactly the same. (metric ~of 36mph-men, 34mph-women)
*Jump-height and max speed are specific to collegiate tournaments.
*Trick-One trick pass, not two.

TMCNo1
10-29-2009, 07:32 PM
They are, unless it's some wierd/casual outlaw tournament where they go out of their way to make things complicated and uneven just for the heck of it.

NCWSA tourn recently held in CA had MC's and CC's available. They ran two divisions on two ~side by side lakes. Towboat for each division was pre-selected, at least for slalom and jump. Might have had a boat choice for tricks?

Collegiate rules are available on NCWSA website and are AWSA rules with only a few changes:
*Slalom is exactly the same. (metric ~of 36mph-men, 34mph-women)
*Jump-height and max speed are specific to collegiate tournaments.
*Trick-One trick pass, not two.

Come to think about it, your right about the one trick pass in Collegiate tournaments. Our daughter would do her hand tricks on the first pass, then her toehold tricks on the second pass in a regular Class C or R tournament, but at a Collegiate tourney, she did her toeholds first, then filled in the rest of the pass with as many hand held tricks as she could till the time was up, it just rushed everything so much more by having to cram everything so tight so quick in one 20 second pass.

Panda Cub
10-29-2009, 09:32 PM
They are, unless it's some wierd/casual outlaw tournament where they go out of their way to make things complicated and uneven just for the heck of it.

NCWSA tourn recently held in CA had MC's and CC's available. They ran two divisions on two ~side by side lakes. Towboat for each division was pre-selected, at least for slalom and jump. Might have had a boat choice for tricks?

Collegiate rules are available on NCWSA website and are AWSA rules with only a few changes:
*Slalom is exactly the same. (metric ~of 36mph-men, 34mph-women)
*Jump-height and max speed are specific to collegiate tournaments.
*Trick-One trick pass, not two.

I guess they went out of their way to make it way more complicated and ran a CC and a MC at the same time.

PPPAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNAAAAAAAAAMMMAAAHHAAHAHAAAA

Jim@BAWS
10-29-2009, 10:25 PM
I have a ps 190 that recently bought back last year. I am really looking to start slalom skiing and have a very good friend of mine that is willing to teach. the only problem is I have a spine coming up from the wake that is pretty tall. Didn't know how to fix this. It is not a problem at long line.


This thread is out of wack !!!

Jim@BAWS
10-29-2009, 10:29 PM
I don't know about anyone else out there, but every tournament I've ever skied in I take the nautique for trick and jump; and the mastercraft for slalom.

If there is the option


What???? A Nautique for Jump??? The Current MC PS 197 HOLDS all records in 3 event
Slalom, LD Jump and trick The trick guys love the ramp off the 197 hull

Are you a CC owner or something??

Jim@BAWS

TMCNo1
10-29-2009, 10:46 PM
Sounds like rodltg2 has a new screen name!