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1970RSZ28
09-25-2009, 03:35 PM
Im installing a new sound system in my X45. Dont get me wrong, the stock system rocks pretty loud and clear but I NEED MORE! Im going to run some Rubicon 450s on the tower. I know everyone loves WetSounds but I like to looks of the Rubicon 450s and they crank loud enough for me. I havent decided what sub and amps to use. Im looking at the Zapco digital series. 1000 watts to the towers, 1000 watts to the sub and the interiors will get about 150 watts to each corner. Im selling the stock JL Audio M6450 to anyone interested - Check out the parts/ accessories section in the Market classifieds. What set-up are you guys running? I was told the stock interiors will come to life with some clean power so for now Ill wait to see how they sound with the Zapco. Has anyone tried the Zapco gear?

btriantos
09-26-2009, 09:51 AM
I can't remember the part number. Is this the 500w six channel or four? What are you asking for it?

east tx skier
09-26-2009, 10:11 AM
It's a six channel.

JimN
09-26-2009, 10:29 AM
Im installing a new sound system in my X45. Dont get me wrong, the stock system rocks pretty loud and clear but I NEED MORE! Im going to run some Rubicon 450s on the tower. I know everyone loves WetSounds but I like to looks of the Rubicon 450s and they crank loud enough for me. I havent decided what sub and amps to use. Im looking at the Zapco digital series. 1000 watts to the towers, 1000 watts to the sub and the interiors will get about 150 watts to each corner. Im selling the stock JL Audio M6450 to anyone interested - Check out the parts/ accessories section in the Market classifieds. What set-up are you guys running? I was told the stock interiors will come to life with some clean power so for now Ill wait to see how they sound with the Zapco. Has anyone tried the Zapco gear?

You have clean power- set the levels correctly. Bridge it if you need to.

What is the power rating for the speakers? If it's nowhere near 1000W, and it's not, you run the risk of launching the crossover caps and every speaker in the system.

You'll have some serious power supply upgrades to do if you put amps in that put out that much power. The trouble with amp ratings is that they're usually very misleading unless they're spec'd with the whole audio bandwidth, power output- both channels driven and low distortion. Many are only rating it at 1KHz and when you need lots of grunt for the bass, that's a useless spec. Your power cable and ground will need to be heavier, your alternator will need to be able to supply more current and at 1000W, your speaker wires may not be sufficient.

FYI- 1000W is close to 1.5 HP (1HP=746W)

How loud do you need it to be, how fast do you want to go deaf and how many people are you trying to piss off at the lake?

I looked at the Zapco site- where is the Digital Series

http://www.zapco.com/prod/index.php

1970RSZ28
09-26-2009, 01:17 PM
If you check out the Zapco site, the DC Reference amps are the digital units. All parameters are set by laptop. Im asking for $450.00 obo for the JL Audio M6450. I believe they sell for about $800.00.

JimN
09-26-2009, 02:16 PM
If you check out the Zapco site, the DC Reference amps are the digital units. All parameters are set by laptop. Im asking for $450.00 obo for the JL Audio M6450. I believe they sell for about $800.00.

So why call the DC Reference amps 'Digital Series'?

OK, if you look at the specs, they're all rated at 1KHz, which is a pretty useless frequency when you want bass but if the marketing company of a manufacturer wants to get peoples' attention, bigger numbers is usually the way they do it (this applies to all electronics companies, not just these guys). I would find out what the full bandwidth power is because 1KW@1KHz doesn't always end up being 1KW@40Hz.

Also, read their pdf where they go into the power requirements- that's extremely important.

Wake2004
09-27-2009, 03:00 AM
First let me give you some credentials, I have been in the audio industry for over 18 years. I was mobile electronics installer of the year back in 2000 and I was a master certified mobile electronics installer (sales rep for past 8 years). Ok now that the bragging is done I agree with JimN that the 1k rating is a way to cheat the system but when compared to some of the max power rating that are out there this is a measurement that we have to use. As long as we now supply voltage and what impedance load and the resulting THD %, we can come to a good conclusion on the performance of the amplifier. With that said I do believe that the Zapco amps are good amps, the THD spec is a little high at 2 ohms but it is not excessive. Since I am a rep for brands: Orion, Rockford Fosgate, and Kenwood I am biased to those brands.

I am currently running a Rockford system in my boat that I am very pleased with.

Tower configuration- T600-2 (300 x 2 at 2 ohms) to 4 M262 (6.5”) in the stock MC (JL) cans
Cabin speakers- T400-4 (60 x 4 at 4 ohms) to 4 M262 (2 in bow and 2 in rear cabin)
Subwoofer- T1000-1BD (1000 x 1 at 2ohms) to 2 M212S4 (12”)

I will add pictures in my profile

I do not agree with JimN that you already have clean power, a multi amp system will generate a lot more power and cleaner sound that one single multi channel amplifier because the sub or subs will draw much more current than the mids and highs so in a single amp system the mids and highs will starve for power during heavy bass notes because they share a single power supply. At the same time if you are thinking of a 1000 watts to a single sub I think it would be over kill and the sub unless it is a very heavy duty high dollar sub it will probably fail. In my system I use 1000 watts but to 2 subs so it is 500watts per sub which is about the limit for these subs. I always suggest more subs if you are looking for more bass than trying to get more bass with too much power. The system will be much more reliable if you do not over power the speakers and you gain volume by adding cone area i.e. more speakers.

Sorry this is very long winded.

Trent 197
09-27-2009, 08:55 AM
I can attest for mpabreo that you're gonna need some killer wattage to have the appropriate amount of bass for a boat as large as the X45. He's got a 1000W W7 under the observer seat. It definitely slams, but to be honest, he could stand a little more. More than that, however, and you start having space problems, and you need to upgrade your alternator.

btriantos
09-27-2009, 10:14 AM
If you check out the Zapco site, the DC Reference amps are the digital units. All parameters are set by laptop. Im asking for $450.00 obo for the JL Audio M6450. I believe they sell for about $800.00.

don't get too crazy. I can buy one out of the factory box for $358.00 online...don't care if it's not an authorized dealer or not.

Ski-me
09-27-2009, 10:54 AM
The system will be much more reliable if you do not over power the speakers and you gain volume by adding cone area i.e. more speakers.

Sorry this is very long winded.

Thread jack on this topic......I have a question on my truck and will post in the "off-topics" section.:)

JimN
09-27-2009, 11:04 AM
"Quote" First let me give you some credentials, I have been in the audio industry for over 18 years. I was mobile electronics installer of the year back in 2000 and I was a master certified mobile electronics installer (sales rep for past 8 years). I agree with JimN that the 1k rating is a way to cheat the system but when compared to some of the max power rating that are out there this is a measurement that we have to use. As long as we know supply voltage and what impedance load and the resulting THD %, we can come to a good conclusion on the performance of the amplifier. With that said I do believe that the Zapco amps are good amps, the THD spec is a little high at 2 ohms but it is not excessive. Since I am a rep for brands: Orion, Rockford Fosgate, and Kenwood I am biased to those brands."Quote"

I was already out of mobile audio in 2000, or I would know who you are because I used to get the trade magazines.I did the MECP 1st Class in '94 and late '96 or early '97 but by '95, I was running the shop and the company didn't care if someone was Master (as evidenced by one of the installers who made it to that but got absolutely nothing for it), and I couldn't see staying there much longer than I did. That said, I've been in audio for over 30 years and got into it not long after the FCC came up with the rules for rating amps using bandwidth, load, THD (TIM if desired) and both/all channels driven. Mobile was specifically excepted from this because at the time, it didn't matter (1973). They should have seen into the future just a little, IMO. As I posted, using 1K as a test for a subwoofer amp is useless and won't guarantee anything as far as how well it will do that particular job. Do you remember the Alpine amp that had an output transformer (I think it came out on about '96 and was gone the next year)? The damping factor and low frequency response was directly affected by the load. The industry needs to standardize its ratings to put everyone on a level field- the current methods only serve to confuse the customers. .2%THD @2Ω is never going to be audible and below a certain point, it's just a pizzing match, like the stereo receiver power war in the late '70s, even though I agree that someone has to be "State of the art". You know it and I know it. I absolutely agree that supply voltage is critical and that's why I mentioned cabling and charging system. If you weren't partial to your brands, you wouldn't be a good rep. :D

"Quote" I do not agree with JimN that you already have clean power, a multi amp system will generate a lot more power and cleaner sound that one single multi channel amplifier because the sub or subs will draw much more current than the mids and highs so in a single amp system the mids and highs will starve for power during heavy bass notes because they share a single power supply. At the same time if you are thinking of a 1000 watts to a single sub I think it would be over kill and the sub unless it is a very heavy duty high dollar sub it will probably fail. In my system I use 1000 watts but to 2 subs so it is 500watts per sub which is about the limit for these subs. I always suggest more subs if you are looking for more bass than trying to get more bass with too much power. The system will be much more reliable if you do not over power the speakers and you gain volume by adding cone area i.e. more speakers."Quote"

Its power is clean enough, there's just not a lot of it although rating them at 1% isn't particularly impressive. Also, 1%THD will never be heard as long as the motor is running, a bird is chirping nearby or the wind is blowing and 1% won't kill the tweeters- not setting the levels correctly will. I agree with the rest, though. Using high power into one or two drivers often results in thermal compression- as the voice coil heats up, its resistance increases which makes small, and in some cases moderate level changes, inaudible and that results in a loss of dynamics. Doubling the power results in a 3dB increase but doubling the power (maintaining the same impedance with more channels and using more power or halving it by using two woofers in parallel) and adding a driver adds 6dB, which equates to quadrupling the power. Too bad horn loading takes up so much real estate, eh?

Is New Horizons still around?

TX.X-30 fan
09-27-2009, 11:11 AM
Going to need more alternator. :D And batteries


52145

JimN
09-27-2009, 11:19 AM
don't get too crazy. I can buy one out of the factory box for $358.00 online...don't care if it's not an authorized dealer or not.

Then you obviously don't care that you won't get much, if any, warranty. Their website states that the three year warranty only applies if it's installed by a Zapco authorized shop. I didn't see it stated but many manufactures won't warranty their products in they're bought online.

TX.X-30 fan
09-27-2009, 11:21 AM
........................


52146

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1970RSZ28
09-27-2009, 06:42 PM
O.K. guys, $350.00 to the first taker.