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sgg
09-22-2009, 08:59 PM
I recently had work done to my 2004 Prostar 190. When it was returned I noticed that on occasion it would start surging -- during sets (when idling) or even idling along without skiing. It can be temporarily rectified by shutting off and starting the engine. The work performed was a new distributor cap and rotor, change of plugs and the jets were cleaned. Thoughts anyone?

Jim@BAWS
09-22-2009, 09:08 PM
I recently had work done to my 2004 Prostar 190. When it was returned I noticed that on occasion it would start surging -- during sets (when idling) or even idling along without skiing. It can be temporarily rectified by shutting off and starting the engine. The work performed was a new distributor cap and rotor, change of plugs and the jets were cleaned. Thoughts anyone?


Perfect Pass !!!

Jim@BAWS

sgg
09-22-2009, 09:13 PM
That was the first thing I thought of, but the surging only started a couple of weeks ago, again, once the dealer had it. The engine worked perfectly until then.

Jerseydave
09-22-2009, 09:20 PM
Just a guess, but check all the connections at the sensors. Maybe they knocked something loose? Wiggle test while the surging is happening, maybe a bad connection somewhere?

If it was perfect before the dealer touched it, chances are they disturbed something.

sgg
09-22-2009, 09:25 PM
That's a great idea, but I am not exactly certain what you mean by "connections at the sensors" (I am not the most mechanically inclined fellow you will ever meet). The PP sensors, perhaps?

JimN
09-22-2009, 09:26 PM
I recently had work done to my 2004 Prostar 190. When it was returned I noticed that on occasion it would start surging -- during sets (when idling) or even idling along without skiing. It can be temporarily rectified by shutting off and starting the engine. The work performed was a new distributor cap and rotor, change of plugs and the jets were cleaned. Thoughts anyone?

My thought- call whoever worked on it and tell them that it's doing something that it didn't before they worked on it. If they're worth anything, they should have taken it out and run it the way it would be normally. You can't do a tuneup and expect to know if it's running right.

FYI- you don't have jets, you have injectors and if it didn't surge before you took it in, there was no reason to clean them.

sgg
09-22-2009, 09:34 PM
I did have it back to the dealer and not only did they not fix the surging, now the water temperature gauge is malfunctioning. I figure if there is any more damage to be done, I will do it myself. It's cheaper that way.

Jerseydave
09-22-2009, 09:55 PM
I did have it back to the dealer and not only did they not fix the surging, now the water temperature gauge is malfunctioning. I figure if there is any more damage to be done, I will do it myself. It's cheaper that way.

Hmmm, sounds like maybe the wire is off the coolant temp sensor. JimN would know exactly where this it located, but my guess is near the front of engine somewhere near the thermostat housing? I can't look at my MCX right now to help you locate it.

I noticed your in the northeast.......anywhere near me? I'm in NJ.

sgg
09-22-2009, 10:20 PM
Thanks. I will check for that wire.

JimN
09-22-2009, 11:24 PM
I did have it back to the dealer and not only did they not fix the surging, now the water temperature gauge is malfunctioning. I figure if there is any more damage to be done, I will do it myself. It's cheaper that way.

When someone performs repair services for someone, there's an implied agreement between the servicer and customer- the servicer will repair whatever is needed, using the correct parts. Which parts are needed is a matter of proper diagnosis, not using the shotgun method. Which parts are correct is extremely easy to verify. If the wrong parts are used, the servicer is responsible. Whether you will now do the work yourself or not, they still have a responsibility to you and they have yet to fulfill this. You also have legal rights in this case, not that a lawsuit is a desired outcome. Go to the Better Business Bureau website and look for this dealer's record- if it'a bad, print it out and use it for leverage. If you have a consumer advocate at a local TV station, contact them. If any damage was caused by their "service", they should be on the hook if they used incorrect parts and practices.

Your gauge is separate from the coolant temperature sensor that reports to the ECM but I agree that doing a visual inspection is a good idea. If you see any loose plugs, chafed or cut wires or any other damage, make sure you can prove when it happened.

Jim@BAWS
09-23-2009, 08:30 AM
When someone performs repair services for someone, there's an implied agreement between the servicer and customer- the servicer will repair whatever is needed, using the correct parts. Which parts are needed is a matter of proper diagnosis, not using the shotgun method. Which parts are correct is extremely easy to verify. If the wrong parts are used, the servicer is responsible. Whether you will now do the work yourself or not, they still have a responsibility to you and they have yet to fulfill this. You also have legal rights in this case, not that a lawsuit is a desired outcome. Go to the Better Business Bureau website and look for this dealer's record- if it'a bad, print it out and use it for leverage. If you have a consumer advocate at a local TV station, contact them. If any damage was caused by their "service", they should be on the hook if they used incorrect parts and practices.

Your gauge is separate from the coolant temperature sensor that reports to the ECM but I agree that doing a visual inspection is a good idea. If you see any loose plugs, chafed or cut wires or any other damage, make sure you can prove when it happened.


Jim this is all true...In this case maybe a little extreme wouldnt you say? It is possible that both this problem and the other temp guage issue (Which is probably a bad ground or something simple) did start after he picked it up

The perfect pass cable, the short one maybe on the fritz. I hope this guy gets his issues resolved ASAP. Set up an appointment at the dealer and have them take care of the problem w/ the customer right there. Easy fix. Threatening sometimes makes the problem worse...unless the dealer does not want to help. Then use leverage

Jim@BAWS

JimN
09-23-2009, 09:33 AM
Jim this is all true...In this case maybe a little extreme wouldnt you say? It is possible that both this problem and the other temp guage issue (Which is probably a bad ground or something simple) did start after he picked it up

The perfect pass cable, the short one maybe on the fritz. I hope this guy gets his issues resolved ASAP. Set up an appointment at the dealer and have them take care of the problem w/ the customer right there. Easy fix. Threatening sometimes makes the problem worse...unless the dealer does not want to help. Then use leverage

Jim@BAWS

Extreme? I don't think so. If it didn't do this before the dealer worked on it, the dealer didn't take it out and run it because it would have shown up then. If it's the sensor to the gauge, it only has one wire going to it, right? I don't see how that would be a bad ground unless the sensor was disturbed.

As I posted, lawsuits aren't the preferred outcome but I meant that he should have something tangible to prove that previous problems may exist as far as the dealer's performance is concerned and this falls under 'leverage'.

We don't know the tech's procedures, knowledge, training or if they took it out on the water but having done this for a living, i think they should have noticed something before the OP took it home. Also, I mentioned PP in my first post so we're in agreement that it should be checked out.

What would you do if this was your boat and, not that we know it happened but I thought it necessary to raise the possibility, you learned that the wrong parts were used (he asked about the wrong plugs) and something on the motor was damaged by the tech but you weren't notified?

Also, what would you do if you were that tech's employer?

JohnE
09-23-2009, 09:45 AM
I'd be calling the dealer and asking him to look at it again and fix whatever is wrong. Sure they should have ran it to check it all out before giving it back. But since they didn't I'd just be looking to get it fixed right. JimN - I don't disagree with all you posted that the dealer should have done. he just needs another chance to make right.

JimN
09-23-2009, 11:17 AM
I'd be calling the dealer and asking him to look at it again and fix whatever is wrong. Sure they should have ran it to check it all out before giving it back. But since they didn't I'd just be looking to get it fixed right. JimN - I don't disagree with all you posted that the dealer should have done. he just needs another chance to make right.

I absolutely think the dealer should make it right. I just think they should have run it on the water before letting it leave and I don't think they did that. Any work done to the motor necessitates running it on the water. Sure, it takes time and costs the dealer time and money but for what they charge, it really needs to be done right the first time. There should be an expectation of this, but I don't see that when I read all of the posts about failed service trips and I completely understand that most successful ones are never mentioned.

sgg
09-23-2009, 09:14 PM
Well guys, I wasn't about to go down this path regarding the dealer, but we seem to be heading in that direction.

Said dealer, in not so many words, pretty much called me a liar with respects to these issues as well as a couple of others I have not mentioned, and said I should take my business elsewhere. Shocking, I know. In my estimation anyone who would do more damage than good and take money for it, at the very least, is not worth their salt. Especially someone who went ahead and replaced parts that were in perfectly good working order -- which is another story. The boat was not in for a tune up. Suffice it to say that this experience has been tantamount to a nightmare. I do plan to take action, the course of which will be dictated by what I can figure out regarding the extent of the damage is that they've done. I really don't like to burn bridges. That said, I may be stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place on this one.

The whole purpose of this post was to get a sense of what to look for so that I don't have to pay another mechanic to diagnose the problems. You have given me a few good ideas and I thank you for that. If anyone else would like to weigh in I would appreciate that as well.

sgg
05-31-2010, 08:44 AM
Well, I am back on the water again for another season of frustration as the surging persists. I found another mechanic who thought it may be the throttle position sensor, which made sense to me. Unfortunately that was not it. So, I am back at square one. To recap, the engine starts to surge when idling along and now often soon after start up. Again, I can temporarily rectify the surging by turning the engine off and on.

I am wondering if it were a computer problem would this not trigger a code?

JimN
05-31-2010, 11:36 AM
Well, I am back on the water again for another season of frustration as the surging persists. I found another mechanic who thought it may be the throttle position sensor, which made sense to me. Unfortunately that was not it. So, I am back at square one. To recap, the engine starts to surge when idling along and now often soon after start up. Again, I can temporarily rectify the surging by turning the engine off and on.

I am wondering if it were a computer problem would this not trigger a code?

Has anyone checked for codes? A bad TPS would cause one of two to be stored and if parts are being thrown at it without proper diagnostics procedures, you'll never have a motor that runs properly, unless it's by chance.

If they're not taking it out and running it on the water, it's clear that they don't care about doing the repairs correctly, as I have posted before. At MC training, they made the point on several occasions that the goal of training MC techs is to keep people on the water with their boats. Nobody wins if the boat is sitting on the trailer for long periods of time and when that happens, it's just a waste of money. A lot of money.

AFAIK, a bad computer will only show a code if the EEPROM goes bad and at that point, it often won't run. If you haven't contacted MC about this, do so, ASAP. They, or Indmar, can check an ECM.