laser alcohol detector?

[Ric]

I have no idea if this is valid, but I received an email from a local group about it and thought I'd post it
Sorry if it turns out to be a hoax.

"I was on Clear Lake this weekend and I was boarded by the USCG for a
random equipment check. They were looking to issue fines for missing
or faulty equipment such as expired registration stickers, life vest
shortage per person and the fire extinguisher. I checked out okay
but others weren't so lucky. He estimated to me that they had issued
over 10 thousand dollars in fines over the weekend.

I was amazed by a new toy they would soon have to play with and that
is why I wanted to post this. He said that they will soon be
receiving a laser gadget that can detect mouth alcohol from up to 50
yards. When alcohol is detected on the operator of the vessel a
boarding will be initiated. I couldn't believe all the secrets he
was telling me about this device but apparently it is a very narrow
beam that can focus on the mouth and nose. If that wasn't bad enough
he told me that it could also pick it up if you are sweating. Now I
have never heard of this particular device but I do know that the
technology exist and is currently being used in law enforcement to
detect alcohol in a closed area such as a car. Those devices mount
to a flashlight and I have actually seen them in action in Florida.

I wanted to pass this along to my fellow boaters to be careful. The
law in Texas is you can have open containers aboard a boat and
passengers can drink while underway. However the operator CAN NOT
drink while operating the vessel and must have a blood alcohol
of .08 or less. Boating while intoxicated is the same or worse than
a DWI. When your boat gets impounded they charge for towing and
impounding fees are per foot of the boat per day.

Have a fun and safe summer
Roby
roby@houston.rr.com"

:eek:

[BriEOD]

I throw up the BS flag. That's illegal under laws of search and seizure. What's the probable cause etc. You can create a road block on the side of the road and check for insurance, etc. But, you can't stop people and check them for BAC. The same thing here law enforcement has no legal right to just on a whim perform a search from 50 feet away. The ACLU will have a field day with that one. Why don't I just sit outside of your house with a thermal imager and if I see something light up and insert to someones mouth assume it's drugs and bust in. I'm not flaming you Ric but I don't buy that for a second. Someone has to much free time.

[JEREMY79]

I know in a vehicle they cannot search on the smell of alcohol, they can on the smell of marijuana (not speaking from experiance :rolleyes: )alcohol has to fall under the plain sight thing. In Kentucky anyway

[Cary K.]

I throw up the BS flag. That's illegal under laws of search and seizure. What's the probable cause etc. You can create a road block on the side of the road and check for insurance, etc. But, you can't stop people and check them for BAC. The same thing here law enforcement has no legal right to just on a whim perform a search from 50 feet away. The ACLU will have a field day with that one. Why don't I just sit outside of your house with a thermal imager and if I see something light up and insert to someones mouth assume it's drugs and bust in. I'm not flaming you Ric but I don't buy that for a second. Someone has to much free time.


In NC, they have DWI/DUI roadside checkpoints ALL the time, not looking for anything else other than this.

[east tx skier]

I throw up the BS flag. That's illegal under laws of search and seizure. What's the probable cause etc. You can create a road block on the side of the road and check for insurance, etc. But, you can't stop people and check them for BAC. The same thing here law enforcement has no legal right to just on a whim perform a search from 50 feet away. The ACLU will have a field day with that one. Why don't I just sit outside of your house with a thermal imager and if I see something light up and insert to someones mouth assume it's drugs and bust in. I'm not flaming you Ric but I don't buy that for a second. Someone has to much free time.

What about the dog sniff tests for drugs? They've been upheld. Not saying this would pass Constitutional muster, just playing devil's advocate for a second.

/edit. Having given this more thought, I've determined that it was a poor analogy.

[east tx skier]

I know in a vehicle they cannot search on the smell of alcohol, they can on the smell of marijuana (not speaking from experiance :rolleyes: )alcohol has to fall under the plain sight thing. In Kentucky anyway

If they smell alcohol, or even suspect it for other reasons, i.e., weaving, they can try to make you take the FS test. If you refuse, they can arrest you. They can then do an inventory search of the vehicle pursuant to the arrest. I don't think it's so much a state-to-state thing, but rather, a 4th Amendment issue. Just sayin'.

[JEREMY79]

Hey you are the lawyer right??

[east tx skier]

Yeah, and I could've sworn that I'd read that the DWI road blocks had some con-law problems. Could be completely wrong on that one. Brian's probably more up to date with the 4th Amendment stuff than I am though.

[JEREMY79]

Is there not some sort of law enforcement on here that can clarify

[erkoehler]

I have seen sobriety check points in IL.

[LakePirate]

while I am no expert, I am pretty sure that they can't just call it a sobriety check point in Georgia. They can call it an insurance/drivers liscense check point, or if they are looking for someone. But if it quacks like a duck...

My college town has the highest per capita DUI rates of anywhere in the nation and they don't deploy this tactic.

However, that being said in GA the DNR who patrols the lakes has more power than god. If they think you are driving too fast they can impound your truck and arrest you for reckless driving. They generally don't do that but they can.

[BriEOD]

In NC, they have DWI/DUI roadside checkpoints ALL the time, not looking for anything else other than this.

Off the record they may be looking for DUI/DWI, however LEGALLY as per the 4th amendment which governs search and seizure in all 50 states, law enforcement cannot stop a car using a road block just to check for DUI. If they are following you and you're swerving, etc they can stop you. But, I'll bet the farm that they justify those road blocks on New Years, etc as safety check points. The media however calls them DUI checkpoints. On the record they are looking for insurance cards, registration and if you just so happen to smell like a brewery well then gravy. You can run a search on landmark Supreme Court cases and see what I'm talking about. See what kind of worthless trivial BS you know about when you major in Criminal Justice.

[Ric]

Is there not some sort of law enforcement on here that can clarify
TEX :D

[tex]

TEX :D
I'm not law enforcement. They will find a way. On the road here, we see alot of dui's that started off as, no turn signal used. Back in the day, i was pulled over sober and the officer tried to tell me that i had changed lanes 11 times without using a turn signal. I had just pulled out and not even gone a mile! Where theres a will....

[BriEOD]

Is there not some sort of law enforcement on here that can clarify

Laws vary from state to state. The Federal Criminal Justice system parallels each state's CJ system. But, Constitutional Law trumps all. Search and seizure is a big deal. I mean cops can stop you and do whatever, but if they don't do it by the book it leads to things being dismissed in court. As for DNR, it's the same thing they can stop you for being reckless or ask you to show safety gear but without some sort of probable cause or you consenting they can't force you to submit to "blow in there face."

[Brn85ss]

We have them in CA all the time.They label them as" Sobriety check points".

[AirJunky]

Where theres a will....
Ain't that the truth. I got a DUI a couple years ago while I was not in the truck. The keys were in my pocket & they claimed that was intent to drive. I fought it & won but it cost a pretty penny.

[rodltg2]

speaking of lasers, my laser went out on my bridge saw. replacemnet one out of italy $2300. anyone know of a company here in the USA that may make somethiong like this.

[Cary K.]

http://forums.wakeboarder.com/viewtopic.php?t=43661

Basically all of it, but especially 4th paragraph

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/outreach/safesobr/16qp/checkpoint.html

Full article

Here was my google search:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=north+carolina+highway+patrol+sobriety+checkpoin ts&btnG=Search


Not trying to start anything here, but this has been going on here for a while, clearly labeled Sobriety Checkpoints, looking solely for DWI/DUI. We even have labeled mobile command RV's with holding facilities inside specifically for these checkpoints.

[Tom023]

What's a bridge saw? And how much does it cost if the laser is $2300 :eek:

[rodltg2]

the saw was about 50K, i use it to cut granite slabs for countertops.

[jayocheskey]

In any situation -- better safe than sorry. I won't ever feel like risking my boat being impounded and paying a stiff fine to drive slightly annebriated (sp?) If you HAVE to drink while you are on the water - go anchor somewhere and plan on staying for a while and let (or make) someone else drive.

[east tx skier]

while I am no expert, I am pretty sure that they can't just call it a sobriety check point in Georgia. They can call it an insurance/drivers liscense check point, or if they are looking for someone. But if it quacks like a duck...

My college town has the highest per capita DUI rates of anywhere in the nation and they don't deploy this tactic.

However, that being said in GA the DNR who patrols the lakes has more power than god. If they think you are driving too fast they can impound your truck and arrest you for reckless driving. They generally don't do that but they can.

Refreshed my memory a little. I was sort of wrong earlier. There was a Michigan case that went up to the USSC. Rehnquist wrote the opinion basically saying that DWI checkpoints weren't unconsititutional under the US Constitution even though they were, technically, a "seizure." On remand, the Michigan SCT said that Michigan's state constitution could afford its citizenry greater protectioni than under the US Constitution and struck down the law again as to Michigan (I think).

As a general matter, that's true. State's can provide greater protection in so much as it doesn't conflict with the federales. Don't know what's become of the case since then.

Also, as a great generalization, the USSC has pretty much made it clear that a lot of the time, the cops won't have a hard time finding they have probable cause to perform a warrantless search during a routine traffic stop. There are, of course, arguments and exceptions.

Obviously, you shouldn't break the law. Still, it amazes me how often people seem to do it in their cars (or their boats).

[JEREMY79]

........Obviously, you shouldn't break the law. Still, it amazes me how often people seem to do it in their cars (or their boats).

You would be suprised how many DUI wrecks happen that dont get reported. I fix quite a few.

[Ric]

I've received a few more emails from that list today and they seem to be really cracking down on boaters at lake Conroe near Houston. I've not been out there in years (other than a lake test with a dealer) so I can only assume that it's gotten crazy enough there to call for some heavy handed policies

[east tx skier]

I tend to save my beers for the dock.

[JEREMY79]

we end up drinking most of ours cleaning the boat when we get back. Dont get me wrong. I like to drink, I like to drink on the lake, but not when I'm driving.

[Ric]

I tend to save my beers for the dock.
ya but dont you have those funny homemade beers that you have no way to properly seal into aluminum cans?

[lakes Rick]

Its all about money.. I stopped drinking in my boat years ago due to the gestapo tactics used by the local water sherriff... Just not worth it anymore.. And we know who the judge believes don't we....

Two years ago, water oinker pulled over some friends on Jet Ski's.. Made em walk a line IN A BOAT. NOBODY can do this.. Cited them for BWI, and took em to the shore to blow and .02.., legally drunk in Oregon is .08.. STILL gave him the citation as the cop said " once given I cannot take them back????

Cost him big bucks with a lawyer to get off...

Around the same time, person from another boat left an empty beer can in my boat.. Sherriff came along and was talking, very nice.. UNTIL he saw the beer can.. I told him I had no beer in the boat and that was from someone else.. Of course I was immediatly a liar... I finally told him to either write me up or get the fu-k gone.. Talk about harrassment.. But of course he saw dollar signs in that beer can...

All of the DORKS who got beat up in school became either COPS or purchasing agents for wobbly box plants ( mobile homes)......

[ChrisG]

I'm with you their. I tend to start my drinking once the boat is clean, safely parked in the garage, and the coals have been lit. :smile:

[Thrall]

Constitutional or not, New Mexico has DUI checkpoints, and they are advertised as such.

[tex]

I've received a few more emails from that list today and they seem to be really cracking down on boaters at lake Conroe near Houston. I've not been out there in years (other than a lake test with a dealer) so I can only assume that it's gotten crazy enough there to call for some heavy handed policies
Mother in law lives in Conroe. I also have a couple of conferences at Del Lago on Lake Conroe. They seem to be having some type of Poker Run w/cig. boats every time we are there. Something about 30-40 foot boats doing 70-90 mph w/no brakes seems dangerous. Add cocktails and I could see them cracking down. Leave us little guys alone!

[Leroy]

In Belgium there were regular check points. I've never seen one, but heard about them in Indiana. On the topic I think it would take a mass spectrometer type device to detect alcohol based on light bands that would be present with alcohol, don't know of anything portable like that. BriEOD would probably like that to use to see if there were any bomb material fumes in Iraqi car's.


Off topic. Funny in Europe they never pull you over, mostly camera's that take picture of front of you car when radar detects speeding. They used to mail the picture with the ticket but too many times the wife opens the letter and there is a picture of her husband and his new lady speeding along. So now they send the ticket and tell you they have a picture if you want to see it. We got one ticket in the mail for driving with our fog lights on when there was no fog. One speeding ticket going 161kph in 140kph zone.

[east tx skier]

ya but dont you have those funny homemade beers that you have no way to properly seal into aluminum cans?

Those tend to be more 'round the house beers. As others can attest, they don't travel well due to natural carbonation. Plus, the lakehouse is in a normal community where you can actually buy beer.

[east tx skier]

Oh, and in case anyone is interested. The USSC case is called Michigan v. Sitz, 496 U.S. 444 (1990).

As Brian said, the US constitution trumps all, but individual states can provide its citizenry greater protection than afforded by Federal law so long as it does not conflict with Federal law.

/big states' rights guy.

[tanner]

Brian is right on track with the Con Law. As a third year law student who earns a living as a Cop, it works like this. Checkpoints are legitimate so long as all vehicles are stopped and there is not a selective process that would discriminate or profile against an individual. Dui's are made on probable cause and at checkpoints that probable cause is founded on the odor of alcohol in the vehicle and on the driver. That leads to further investigation such as field tests etc. You cannot just test people at random without this basis. Unfortunately, sometimes bad apple's leave people with bitter tastes. However I work with a very professional group of guys and we treat people as we would expect to be treated. I am new around here, so I won't disrespect lakesRick with his last sentence on this thread, but thats a big falsity that people with a bad taste seem to fallback on. I agree that it appears waterpatrol has unlimited reign over us boaters by selectively approaching any boat unlike a land checkpoint. I enjoy a drink as much as anyone but I don't want to test waterpatrol's methods on my dime in court.

[BriEOD]

Thanks for covering my 6 tanner and welcome to the board. I recall having this exact discussion in one of my CJ classes. The Professor was a retired federal judge. I distincly remember her saying in was an illegal search to stop someone solely to check for DUI. It would be the same as randomly stopping cars on the interstate and checking for drugs. Now if they are already stopped and there is some probable cause go for it.

[BriEOD]

Oh, and in case anyone is interested. The USSC case is called Michigan v. Sitz, 496 U.S. 444 (1990).

As Brian said, the US constitution trumps all, but individual states can provide its citizenry greater protection than afforded by Federal law so long as it does not conflict with Federal law.

/big states' rights guy.

Thanks for digging up that case Doug.

[Upper Michigan Prostar190]

...I guess I dont buy that story... that just sounds too "star wars fantasy technology" to be true. So if a cop tries that on me, I will just use the ol' Jedi mind trick on him and wave my hand and say, "We arent the drunks your looking for, we can go about our business....move along." ;) :purplaugh

Actually I dont drink when I boat, I leave that to my friends. there is plenty of time for beer when the boat is put away. :toast:

[east tx skier]

Hi, Tanner. Welcome. I realize that the smell of alcohol gives an officer probable cause to conduct a search and I realize that pursuant to the Sitz case, the checkpoints are okay under the US constitution (and probably under some, but not all state constitutions (see above). But what I'm pondering is what is the purpose of the stop? As Brian mentioned, and I'm sure you know, there has to be a reason for the stop, i.e., weaving, failure to signal, etc., and to check for the smell of alcohol seems unreasonable (although not to the USSC apparently).

Just sounds like a pretext stop to me.

Also, I didn't see in your profile where you're located, but in Texas, you can't force someone to take the field sobriety test or a breathalizer (but the person's license can be suspended and they'll go to jail). I recognize it might be different in other states. Just curious how things differ where you are? Where are you in law school?