Wheels/Hubs hot after towing [Archive]

nmcjr

08-31-2009, 06:18 PM

Hi,

After say an hour long tow in 95 degree heat, when I get home, there is a lot of heat coming off my trailer wheels and hubs. So much so, that I cannot hold my hand on the wheels. Is this normal?

Tire pressure good
Oil in hubs full
Brakes don't seem to be dragging (I hand push the boat into the garage)

It is the same on all four wheels, it just seems like a lot of heat so I wanted to make sure it is normal. Thanks.

Covi

08-31-2009, 06:24 PM

Wow, not sure of the answer myself. But hold on to your pants. I'm sure the answer is about to come. I'd like to know myself.

My tires and wheels / rims are touchable after any distance of travel.

Ray's Sportstar

08-31-2009, 07:42 PM

What's your tire pressure and what is the load (boat plus trailer)?

Jim@BAWS

08-31-2009, 08:15 PM

Oil bath or Buddy bearings???

Oil bath needs 40 weight

Buddy Bearings a good marine grease

Jim@BAWS

Sodar

08-31-2009, 08:20 PM

More importantly, how much braking are you doing? Are you driving up or down hill?

My brakes get hot causing the wheel to be hot. Living where I live, traffic is a necessity and so is braking. If I am braking a lot, I cannot leave my hands on the wheels. If I am going downhill, my wheels can get hot, too. What I try to do is over exaggerate my braking and then give the car a little gas to disengage the coupler. You can feel the actuator pop out...

nmcjr

08-31-2009, 08:31 PM

Tire pressure 50 psi, weight is ~4000 lbs, I believe (02 xstar), dual axle.

Oil bath hubs--I have 50 wt in them, as I believe that was what was called for (UFP hub)...is 50 too thick?

I have a few hills and stops just as I get home, but nothing spectacular, other than that it is freeway most of the way, so not a lot of hard braking. The brakes did smell a little hot, I wonder if the actuator could be hanging up a bit? But, I looked at it, and it was slid all the way forward when I parked. Or, do those brakes just get over-worked?

TX.X-30 fan

08-31-2009, 08:58 PM

The bad caliper deal??

kgrove

08-31-2009, 11:47 PM

Do you have a long downhill stretch before you get home? If you are going downhill such that you keep having to use the brakes plus engine braking, the trailer brakes may never disengage because the trailer is always pushing the truck and never getting pulled. Even though your truck brakes are disengaging and getting a chance to cool off, your trailer brakes may still be rubbing and getting hot.

I have long, steep, downhill before the lake I go to most often. I've been warned I need to sometimes accelerate downhill to make sure the trailer brakes release. In addition, I let the trailer sit for 10 minutes to cool a bit before backing the trailer into the water to avoid plunging red hot brakes into the water. My dealer tells me they've had a number of customers blow out the seals on their oil baths by doing that.

kyfooter

09-01-2009, 08:16 AM

With an '02, my guess is you have calipers that are hanging up...or slow to release after braking. There are many threads about brake problems on the early 2000 trailers.

I have an '03 and had similar problems, and like you I was still able to push the trailer into the garage (most of the time). Long story short, the caliper was hanging up and eventually locked up while towing through Tennessee mountains. MasterCraft and the dealers are aware of this problem. After replacing mine, I have had no heat on the rims after towing, and the brakes work great.

Thrall

09-01-2009, 09:37 AM

If all 4 are the same temp, it is probably normal, maybe just some hard braking heating them up as mentioned.
Calipers could be hanging up, creating a little more heat. Noticed on my almost new 06 trailer (couple thousand miles on it, dry climate = less rust) the calipers were hanging up a little. I could still push it in teh garage by hand, but the wheels didn't all spin freely when off the ground. I took apart all 4 brakes and anti seized the caliper mounting bolts, bushings and mounting surfaces. They were already starting to rust up a little. (And why would anyone....Mastercraft....use threadlocker on the caliper bolts. Took an impact wrench to get them off! That's a sure recipe for broken bolts in the future.
I'd do a little preventative maint to the brakes and fresh oil in the hubs and see how it is then. Maybe try a nice level tow somewhere where you don't really use the trailer brakes and see if it's cooler. And what Sodar said, the surge brakes hang sometimes on long or steep downhills, you'll see what he means if you punch it on a steep downhill and hear the actuator come back forward.

On another note, I've heard everything from 40wt to 90wt for the oil baths.....What's correct? I filled one with 90 wt last weekend, not sure what's in teh other 3 and it was the same temp as teh rest after a 60mile drive.
My thought was teh thicker the better for oil to help prevent seeping around the rear seal, given that it dissipates heat well enough.

nmcjr

09-01-2009, 05:56 PM

TX.X-30 fan

09-01-2009, 06:25 PM

Thrall: As for the oil--mine are the UFP hubs, and I think yours are not, so I can only say that UFP calls for 50 wt.

Bigmac uses Amsoil in his hubs. :D

corey

09-01-2009, 06:41 PM

We just had a customer bring his boat in for this same situation, we checked both his and another new trailer. After driving 8 miles round trip the hubs reach about 150 degrees, hot to the touch for sure but no issues besides that that we could tell.

Customer trailer was an 07' new trailer was an 09' so both are running oil bath hubs.

Thrall

09-02-2009, 09:42 AM

Bigmac uses Amsoil in his hubs. :D

Yeah, well I used Lucas!:D
My old Relaible caps said 50wt on them. I just refilled with 75W140 gear oil. Guess I'll find out how that works this weekend!
Can't see that it really matters, except maybe for parasitic drag. Looks like the same exact bearings as older trailers 'cept for a fany rear seal and the stupid plastic oil caps (which are now aluminum caps as of last night). Every other axle runs on grease. I figured the thicker the oil, the less chance of seeping by the seal....I dunno?

Oh, FWIW, if you ever break or crack a cap and need to rig a repair, a 2" rubber pipe cap from teh plumbing aisle hose clamps down real nice on the hub. Held for 150 mi on the highway, no drips!

nmcjr

09-02-2009, 10:31 AM

Thanks Corey, that good insight.

I've read on this forum a lot about this mysitcal teak oil--maybe that would work better :)

thatsmrmastercraft

09-02-2009, 12:42 PM

OK, thanks all, gives me some things to look at. I will jack up a wheel and see how freely it turns. Also, the last stretch coming home is a couple miles of a gradual hill, that is also a local speed trap, so I always make sure I am doing 40 down it. I am thinking that maybe that last stretch is heating them up. I will check to see if it is hot going the other way too.

It seems like a bad design to me that these actuators are not spring loaded to keep the pressure off the brakes unless needed. I may also see if I can lubricate the actuator so that it releases more easily.

Thrall: As for the oil--mine are the UFP hubs, and I think yours are not, so I can only say that UFP calls for 50 wt.

If you have to slow down through this area and think it may be heating up your hubs, make sure your vehicle is not in overdrive. This will on occasion cause such a problem. Leave it in drive and the trailer won't have such a chance to over run the tow vehicle. Cops do the same thing in a car chase. They hit the button to lock out the overdrive to take advantage of the compression braking on hard deceleration to extend the quality of the brakes.

flipper

09-02-2009, 01:27 PM

Is the trailer sitting level? I've herd if not that can make the brakes drag just enough to get some extra heat

G-man

09-02-2009, 01:34 PM

How hot is hot? I use a infared temp gun that tells me my hubs are running 132 degrees. When I stop for gas I check them on long trips. You'll find all sorts of uses once you get one of these

kingwoodlee

09-02-2009, 01:55 PM

Has anyone thought of just replacing the oil with good old wheel bearing grease, like everyone else uses on their trailer axles? At least if a caliper overheats, and causes the plastic hub cap to melt and turn loose, or if you develop a leak, there won't be any oil to leak out causing what happened to me. (had to replace an entire axle, and still waiting on it 3-1/2 weeks later). Even with the grease in there, you can still see thru the clear hub to see if the grease is diluted with water, but you just won't be able to run buddy bearings.

wheeler

09-02-2009, 02:09 PM

I "just" had the bad caliper deal happen to me this past weekend. Noticed a lot of brake dust on one wheel only. Knew it was about to happen sooner than later...

Saturday.....going down a hill, stopped before launch gate at the lake, took off....wife says about 10-15 seconds later "hey, boat on fire!"...I look back and there is smoke....then boom!

Right rear caliper locked up, blew tire, wheel would not even turn.....

Backed into water, cooled off brake, parked boat, removed wheel....and so on

Replaced caliper and pads, all good (for now)...lol!!!

TMCNo1

09-02-2009, 02:38 PM

How hot is hot? I use a infared temp gun that tells me my hubs are running 132 degrees. When I stop for gas I check them on long trips. You'll find all sorts of uses once you get one of these

Can you use one to see if the wife is running hot?:rolleyes::D

flipper

09-02-2009, 02:53 PM

Can you use one to see if the wife is running hot?:rolleyes::D

The answer is yes, the drawback is the fact that it can't distinguish whether it's a good hot or pissed off hot.

thatsmrmastercraft

09-02-2009, 03:16 PM

The answer is yes, the drawback is the fact that it can't distinguish whether it's a good hot or pissed off hot.

Great answer flip.......I almost choked on my cigar when I read that!

kingwoodlee

09-02-2009, 03:23 PM

I wish all I would have lost was a tire! I would have been able to put the spare on, remove the caliper, and limp home. In fact, had I known about the caliper issues, I would have taken them all off, and driven the 500 miles home without brakes, and then repaired them once I was back in Houston. As it is now, i'm out a $100 towing charge, a $100 room rental charge, at least $1,500 in repair bills, and the boat is still sitting in OKlahoma waiting to be put back together. Mastercraft should have done the "right thing" and recalled all the defective calipers, or at least let the owners know there was a problem. Just my 2c.

nmcjr

09-03-2009, 04:24 PM

Is the trailer sitting level? I've herd if not that can make the brakes drag just enough to get some extra heat

I was wondering about this also--and have for some time. I follow the 18-20" guideline, closer to 20, but the trailer is still not level (low in the front). Not sure if it is supposed to be...but, if I did raise it much more it seems like the rollers on the prop guard would be much more apt to hit more often.

Anyone know if their trailers are level or low in the front?

Sodar

09-03-2009, 04:41 PM

I was wondering about this also--and have for some time. I follow the 18-20" guideline, closer to 20, but the trailer is still not level (low in the front). Not sure if it is supposed to be...but, if I did raise it much more it seems like the rollers on the prop guard would be much more apt to hit more often.

Anyone know if their trailers are level or low in the front?

I know what you are saying! The MC trailers sit high. I have my hitch set at 22" and it sits perfectly level.

G-man

09-03-2009, 05:36 PM

The answer is yes, the drawback is the fact that it can't distinguish whether it's a good hot or pissed off hot.

I think flipper knows my wife!!!!

flipper

09-03-2009, 05:49 PM

I think flipper knows my wife!!!!

uhhhh.....we could have talked about this via PM:D

Sorry, couldn't resist

nmcjr

09-03-2009, 06:15 PM

I know what you are saying! The MC trailers sit high. I have my hitch set at 22" and it sits perfectly level.

Maybe I will raise it a bit--to clarify, is yours 22" before or after you put the boat weight on the hitch?

Sodar

09-03-2009, 06:40 PM

After the weight is on. It is actually a pain because my jack does not go high enough... I have to put a block under the jack wheel to get it over the ball.

ridesdirt

09-03-2009, 10:57 PM

After the weight is on. It is actually a pain because my jack does not go high enough... I have to put a block under the jack wheel to get it over the ball.

Ditto, mine is the same way. Never measured the ball height (lol), but it is hooked up in the driveway right now. I'll put a tape on it tomorrow.

TOO-TALL

09-03-2009, 11:45 PM

Ditto, mine is the same way. Never measured the ball height (lol), but it is hooked up in the driveway right now. I'll put a tape on it tomorrow.

I'm the same need a block of wood under the jack.
Back on topic.I just replaced my 4th caliper. On a tandem trailer.And the previous owner replaced one before I bought the boat.So that is 5 total.Now all mine are Kodiak 225.

I tried to get it coverd under warranty,but no dice.MC said my trailer was to old(2003)I call that.... BULLSH!T!!!! How often does a person replace the calipers on there car?? I bet its not 5 times in the past 6 years....Give me a F'ing break MC.At least man up and say there is a problem.
To make matters worst.My last Caliper locked up in April of this year.I just got it this week.I was calling my dealer about every three weeks asking about my caliper.They said they are waiting on alot of parts from MC.I just caped off the line so I could use my boat this summer.

I have no Idea what is going on at MC,but it is not good.They always are saying that MC is 1 Bla,Bla,Bla,but yet I see problems with quality,Calipers,stitching,customer service ect,ect,ect.
It might be time to look at other boat Mfg's...... MC you listen?????

kingwoodlee

09-04-2009, 09:30 AM

Update to my stranded X-10 due to the trailer brake mishap: (Day 28)
The new axle and 4 kodiak calipers arrived in Oklahoma this week, but the place the boat and trailer are sitting at, are trying to get all their local customers boats out by labor day weekend, so my repairs will have to wait till next week. In the meantime, I spoke to an engineer with Reliable Tool Co and asked about switching my oil filled hubs to regular old wheel bearing grease. He stated "absolutely". So, I plan on having the mechanics pack my wheel bearings with grease on both axles (including the new one) and get rid of the oil bath. At least if a caliper drags, or a cap screws loose, I won't loose all the oil again and be left stranded. I see trailers driving around all the time with no caps, where you can even see the axle nut showing, but they are still going. Once the oil pours out, you are left with zero protection. I have been trailering boats for 35 years and never had an axle failure before I bought a MC.

TMCNo1

09-04-2009, 01:15 PM

I see trailers driving around all the time with no caps, where you can even see the axle nut showing, but they are still going.

That cause you only see them the one time, the rest of the time, they're sitting on the side of the road waiting to be towed or at the repair shop getting repaired.

Thrall

09-08-2009, 11:58 AM

Well, ran the "new" trailer over 6 mtn passes this weekend, highest one going a bit over 10,000ft elev. Had the new aluminum bearing caps on and hubs filled about 3/4 full of 75W140 oil and everything ran cool. Coming off the steepest downhill, the hubs were still pretty cool, maybe 100-110deg.
Sodar was right about the brakes hanging up coming downhill. I could feel it easily because I have a bent rotor on the trailer and I could feel it still braking the trailer after letting off the vehicle service brakes. One crack on the gas pedal gets them to release though and you can feel the actuator extend back out. Now I make it a habit to stab the throttle once every time coming off the brakes on a down hill grade.

gjv70

09-09-2009, 08:44 PM

if you have a swing away tung make sure the surge brake line is not pinched if so it will hold pressure on the calipers after the breaks are applied once

nmcjr

09-10-2009, 05:23 PM

Thanks for the replies all. I am going to raise the hitch a bit, and try to be sure to stab the throttle on hills as needed.

nmcjr

09-13-2009, 10:56 PM

Well, I raised the hitch and hit the throttle some after braking (not all that much though). Just took a trip 1.5 hours away with the last half through some pretty good size hills and when I arrived the wheels were plenty cool and I could easily keep my hand on the wheels and hubs. I really think the kitch height must have been the issue. It is now about 20.5 inches after the weight of the boat is applied. Thanks again.

sand2snow22

10-10-2009, 09:02 PM

if you have a swing away tung make sure the surge brake line is not pinched if so it will hold pressure on the calipers after the breaks are applied once

I am having the same problem. 2005 MC tandem trailer, the rear wheels get hotter than snot. I've even noticed a burning brake smell. We had our tongue swing away all summer, so the brake line might be pinched. I will have to check in the spring. Also, I'm pretty sure the rotors are warped because I get a pulsating feeling (the one flippers wife likes) coming from the trailer on smooth pavement, whether braking or accelerating:(

Will have to check tongue height, too.....

kingwoodlee

10-11-2009, 12:10 PM

Well, I would say your calipers are dragging and they and/or your master cylinder may need to be replaced. Once I got my X-10 back to Houston after replacing the axle, I checked the master cylinder fluid and found about 1/2" of sludge and rusty fluid there. Of course I was really ticked because the mechanic in Olkahoma that installed the new axle and the 4 new calipers was told by me to check the entire system, including the master cylinder, brake lines, etc. I did not want to have any more problems! So, I had to put the trailer into the MC Dealer here in Houston and have the entire system flushed out (including the 4 new calipers) and a new master cylinder with brake solenoid installed. The actuator was apparently OK. The dealer told me that it is seldom the actuator and almost always the calipers on an 05 trailer. Now everything seems to be OK. Expensive mishap though.

kingwoodlee

10-28-2009, 09:43 AM

Now that I am using grease instead of oil bath on my X-10 tandem axle trailer, here is a picture of the modified axle caps I am using now.

ORX-1

10-28-2009, 11:16 AM

I had the same thing on my 06 trailer on with the X1. After taking it in we figured out that the safety cable that you hook to the car had gotten triggered. I knew that but thought I had released it because it looked normal, come to find out there is another point under the toung that they had to depress. Not sure if your cord got pulled or not but may be something to check.

thatsmrmastercraft

10-28-2009, 11:24 AM

Now that I am using grease instead of oil bath on my X-10 tandem axle trailer, here is a picture of the modified axle caps I am using now.

Is that bearing buddy threaded? I never really liked the pound in style because I am hesitant to remove it to inspect the bearings as often as I would like.