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Thrall
08-26-2009, 11:01 AM
Anyone have a good suggestion on how to get someold fuel out of an 06 X2?
Can't get a siphon hose down the filler, don't want to disconnect the fuel line at the rail.
Only way I can see is to pull teh fuel pump or gas guage sender and siphon from there with a LONG hose.

russlars
08-26-2009, 11:21 AM
Anyone have a good suggestion on how to get someold fuel out of an 06 X2?
Can't get a siphon hose down the filler, don't want to disconnect the fuel line at the rail.
Only way I can see is to pull teh fuel pump or gas guage sender and siphon from there with a LONG hose.
Pull the fuel pump and when you do change the fuel filter while you are at it. With the fuel pump out you can see straight into the tank.

jkski
08-26-2009, 11:43 AM
Did you get bad gas, or do you have water in it?
If you choose to pull the fuel pump, be sure to have a new rubber gasket on hand to put down when re-installing, as the old one will most likely not be good to re-use.

Thrall
08-26-2009, 02:46 PM
Thnaks for the heads up about the gasket.
Boat just has old gas in it. PO filled it up in April and never even used 1/2 tank. Runs fine, lost some top end rpms, partially due to the altitude I run the boat at, but also I think it's retarding timing due to crappy fuel.
Basically, I'm anal about having fresh fuel in stuff, especially stuff this expensive.

JimN
08-26-2009, 03:04 PM
Thnaks for the heads up about the gasket.
Boat just has old gas in it. PO filled it up in April and never even used 1/2 tank. Runs fine, lost some top end rpms, partially due to the altitude I run the boat at, but also I think it's retarding timing due to crappy fuel.
Basically, I'm anal about having fresh fuel in stuff, especially stuff this expensive.

I had a cheap volume-type fuel pump with a couple of sections of fuel line, set up with a sealed switch and a cable I could clip onto the battery terminals. I think I got it at NAPA but you could go to any parts store for one. I originally bought it after a customer called to ream me for putting the plug in the hull after I summerized it (funny- I though the plug was supposed to be it the hull when the boat was put in the water. Probably would have been my fault if it sank, too.). which was followed by him cleaning it and inadvertently moving the bilge pump switch from Auto to OFF, then leaving it out in the 11' of rain we got. That wouldn't have been a problem if the fuel tank sender had been mounted properly, but the previous dealer didn't line up the screws and holes, so it had a 1/8" gap around the flange and when the bilge filled up with water, it displaced a half tank of gas, so I got to pump the tank dry and tell him that he had, in fact, tried to start it when he told me he didn't (all I got at the Shrader valve was water).

Thrall
08-27-2009, 05:04 PM
I decided not to mess with it. Put a triple shot of Lucas in it and going to go run 'er on Sat. Too much of a hassle, no gasket to replace if i pull the pump, don't even want to mess with the fuel guage because it works!, blah blah blah.

JimN
08-27-2009, 05:18 PM
I decided not to mess with it. Put a triple shot of Lucas in it and going to go run 'er on Sat. Too much of a hassle, no gasket to replace if i pull the pump, don't even want to mess with the fuel guage because it works!, blah blah blah.

Do you have to buy gas with ethanol in it? If not, good. Look at my post in the JD Powers thread about water and these pumps. Ultimately, it's best to just remove any water because the filter won't let it through, by design. Even if you add the Lucas, it won't pass the water.

ttu
08-27-2009, 05:21 PM
Do you have to buy gas with ethanol in it? If not, good. Look at my post in the JD Powers thread about water and these pumps. Ultimately, it's best to just remove any water because the filter won't let it through, by design. Even if you add the Lucas, it won't pass the water.


jim, how about the product called "heet"? would that help remove the water in the gas.

Mag_Red
08-27-2009, 05:39 PM
jim, how about the product called "heet"? would that help remove the water in the gas.it will remove water in gas , but I would see if it's recommended for marine use. :twocents:

bigmac
08-27-2009, 05:42 PM
Heet is just isopropyl alcohol. If you're going to add Heet to your fuel, might as well be running ethanol....not that there's anything wrong with that. OTOH, adding Heet to fuel that already has ethanol...well...that would just be wrong.

Alcohol, whether it's Heet or E-10, doesn't remove water, it keeps it in suspension. If water won't go through a 10 micron filter (not sure that's true - have to look it up), it won't go through in suspension either.

JimN
08-27-2009, 08:03 PM
jim, how about the product called "heet"? would that help remove the water in the gas.

Read the previous post- the filter is water selective. That means it won't pass through. I also posted that ethanol is the cause of the problems and HEET is alcohol. It may be methanol but it will still affect the Teflon and because of the water that mixes with the alcohol, it affects the aluminum G-rotor. The only way to get rid of the water without draining or pumping the tank dry would be to get it to bypass the filter e.g., make it go into the reservoir where the pump lives. This is hard because the water/alcohol mix is heavier than the rest of the gas.

JimN
08-27-2009, 08:04 PM
Heet is just isopropyl alcohol. If you're going to add Heet to your fuel, might as well be running ethanol....not that there's anything wrong with that. OTOH, adding Heet to fuel that already has ethanol...well...that would just be wrong.

Alcohol, whether it's Heet or E-10, doesn't remove water, it keeps it in suspension. If water won't go through a 10 micron filter (not sure that's true - have to look it up), it won't go through in suspension either.

The 10 micron filter was discussed when we went over the in-tank pump and they specifically said it doesn't pass water. That was reiterated today in the discussion.

bigmac
08-27-2009, 08:16 PM
WAY overthinking the "problem" here. The fuel's been there 6 months and the tank's been half full. It will work just fine, especially if you fill it up the rest of the way with the 91 ethanol. The ethanol will act as a solvent and help scrub any barnacles from your fuel system, and it will help to distribute any water that may be there from what little condensation that might have occurred.

If you're still concerned, you'll just have to drain the tank. There is no chemical additive that will solve any of the problems you think you have.

JimN
08-27-2009, 08:29 PM
WAY overthinking the "problem" here. The fuel's been there 6 months and the tank's been half full. It will work just fine, especially if you fill it up the rest of the way with the 91 ethanol. The ethanol will act as a solvent and help scrub any barnacles from your fuel system, and it will help to distribute any water that may be there from what little condensation that might have occurred.

If you're still concerned, you'll just have to drain the tank. There is no chemical additive that will solve any of the problems you think you have.

What "little" condensation? The tank is vented and every time the fuel level drops, air is brought in. Every time the temoerature drops, the fuel contracts and air is brought in. Every time fresh gas is added from an underground pump, condensation occurs. The filter won't pass the water and the water is heavier than the fresh gas. How will it be passed through the pump unless it's stirred up with new fuel and heavy wave action?

TX.X-30 fan
08-27-2009, 09:11 PM
I would fill the tank and go on about my business. That is a smart filter that will not allow water to pass.

JimN
08-27-2009, 11:52 PM
I would fill the tank and go on about my business. That is a smart filter that will not allow water to pass.

But if enough water collects in the tank, the gas won't get through, either. That's the problem with the CG not allowing a pressurized tank with a vapor recovery system.

TX.X-30 fan
08-28-2009, 09:55 AM
But if enough water collects in the tank, the gas won't get through, either. That's the problem with the CG not allowing a pressurized tank with a vapor recovery system.




High humidity places would seem to be more susceptible to water then.

Thrall
08-28-2009, 10:14 AM
Wow, learn more every day! Didn't know the filter won't pass water. Can't be too big of a problem or non of our newer boats would run.

I don't suspect bad gas or anything and I'm running this weekend at about 9500' elev, so octane is of less concern than anywhere else. Just wanted to see how much of my rpm drop was due to the prop and due to old gas. Boat has been in Vegas, so humidity/condensation are of less concern as well. Not afraid to run old gas in a chevy 350. Going to run out the old so I can start over fresh on Labor day.

JimN
08-28-2009, 11:21 AM
High humidity places would seem to be more susceptible to water then.

They are. Seems kinda stupid to make people use gas with alcohol near water when the tank is vented. Plus, not all motors like having the ethanol in the mix and gas is still a better fuel in terms of BTU/pound.

JimN
08-28-2009, 11:26 AM
Wow, learn more every day! Didn't know the filter won't pass water. Can't be too big of a problem or non of our newer boats would run.

I don't suspect bad gas or anything and I'm running this weekend at about 9500' elev, so octane is of less concern than anywhere else. Just wanted to see how much of my rpm drop was due to the prop and due to old gas. Boat has been in Vegas, so humidity/condensation are of less concern as well. Not afraid to run old gas in a chevy 350. Going to run out the old so I can start over fresh on Labor day.

What do you mean it's not too big a problem- how many boats have stopped running when they still had gas in the tank? The pumps are failing because the ethanol attracts water and when some of it goes in through the opening above 1/2, it affects the impeller. Also, 9500' and low octane don't get along but Vegas and ethanol should be a good combo with the dry air.

Make sure to listen for detonation.