View Full Version : Mastercraft Quality
TMCNo1
09-26-2009, 03:31 PM
Reminds me of the vinyl covered, cushioned toilet seat I once bought and after two weeks it cracked, then it would pinch your butt! What a waste of $7.99! :rolleyes::D
Reminds me of the vinyl covered, cushioned toilet seat I once bought and after two weeks it cracked, then it would pinch your butt! What a waste of $7.99! :rolleyes::D
And that is an insight as to why the best of the best in boats was supplied with ****ty vinyl. Or is to up your post whore count8p?????
TMCNo1
09-26-2009, 07:33 PM
And that is an insight as to why the best of the best in boats was supplied with ****ty vinyl. Or is to up your post whore count8p?????
Thanks, just another to add to my Ignore List.
Hoosier Bob
09-26-2009, 07:34 PM
At Harolds prices he would be a post "Call Girl" thank you! Harold is classy and sassy!;)And that is an insight as to why the best of the best in boats was supplied with ****ty vinyl. Or is to up your post whore count8p?????
TMCNo1
09-26-2009, 08:46 PM
At Harolds prices he would be a post "Call Girl" thank you! Harold is classy and sassy!;)
And I charge extra for the additional services as a ho!
Thanks, just another to add to my Ignore List.
Ouch:( You joke, I can't:confused:
TX.X-30 fan
09-27-2009, 10:54 AM
Ouch:( You joke, I can't:confused:
Bailiff whack his pee pee. :D
TMCNo1
09-27-2009, 11:15 AM
And I charge extra for the additional services as a ho!
A full tilt "Around the World" teak discussion is big bucks nowdays, no more buy one, get one free in this economy!:rolleyes::D
And I charge extra for the additional services as a ho!
Twenty bucks, just like downtown!
JohnE
09-27-2009, 11:21 AM
Ouch:( You joke, I can't:confused:
It's sometimes difficult to understand the tone of some posts. :confused: Now start practicing the smilies.:D
swatguy
09-28-2009, 01:32 AM
Well I am waaaaaaaaay late on this but I will just add that my 2000 X-Star and my buddys 99 X-Star have both been replaced. I know of 4 other guys...... 2 with '02's, 1 '03 and 1 '04 that have all had same issues on their X-Stars/X-series. My sundeck twice and even my bow seats and observer seat. My drivers seat though doesn't show any signs of disrepair at all. I am actually due for all the seat bases now as is my buddy so am planning on farming them out this winter.
We baby the heck out of our boats and they see heated/cooled indoor storage. Babes seat saver/303, exqusite alll the essentials. I have known of a ton of problems with owners from the 99-03-04 era boats. Myself...... it kills me everyday to see the stress tears, but I am just waiting so I can replace all the vinyl on the bases at once. This way they match. Anybody know of a good, marine vinyl shop in the Chicago area?
Ski-me
09-01-2010, 12:31 PM
Had some time to kill and read through this whole thing. Very interesting topic and hopefully it true that other manufacturers have similar problems during that era. From what I can tell, the effective years were from 1999 - 2004. In 2005, the vinyl quality changed for the better. This does help me understand better what years to look for when I go to upgrade our boat.
Would it be possible to get the newer skins for, say 2009 or 2010 PS 197's, and retrofit them to the older models somehow? I really like the 2003 Anniversary 197 but if it has potential interior flaws down the road, it might be hard to convince the wife "it's a great boat but we'll have to replace the interior for $4k in a few years"......
Had some time to kill and read through this whole thing. Very interesting topic and hopefully it true that other manufacturers have similar problems during that era. From what I can tell, the effective years were from 1999 - 2004. In 2005, the vinyl quality changed for the better. This does help me understand better what years to look for when I go to upgrade our boat.
Would it be possible to get the newer skins for, say 2009 or 2010 PS 197's, and retrofit them to the older models somehow? I really like the 2003 Anniversary 197 but if it has potential interior flaws down the road, it might be hard to convince the wife "it's a great boat but we'll have to replace the interior for $4k in a few years"......
The only way they could be retro-fitted is if the shape and size of all cushions, backrests and other parts stayed the same and I seriously doubt they did.
Wake2004
09-01-2010, 01:35 PM
If anyone could post pictures of a 2009/2010 X1 complete interior. i am interested in ordering new skins for my 2004 205V and except for the drivers seat the cushions don't seem to have changed?
danall705
09-01-2010, 09:12 PM
I have a 2004 X-30. Similar upholstery problems. Not real happy about it either, I think Mastercraft needs to correct this if they want my business in the future.
wetfoot100
09-01-2010, 09:51 PM
Here is a picture of an 07 X-1 picture for you. I believe the interior has no changes on this model.
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=339&pictureid=2080
http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/picture.php?albumid=339&pictureid=2079
I have a 2004 X-30. Similar upholstery problems. Not real happy about it either, I think Mastercraft needs to correct this if they want my business in the future.
Did you read the whole thread? Have you contacted MC about it and if the boat is an '04, what do you expect them to do?
east tx skier
09-01-2010, 10:52 PM
Did you read the whole thread? Have you contacted MC about it and if the boat is an '04, what do you expect them to do?
I'm guessing he meant correct in on future models if they want future business. I can't imagine someone wanting replacement on six year old upholstery even though that's a pretty lousy service life in my opinion.
I'm guessing he meant correct in on future models if they want future business. I can't imagine someone wanting replacement on six year old upholstery even though that's a pretty lousy service life in my opinion.
Agree with that.. six years is pretty bad and quality is what MC is supposed to about hence the extra $$$$$.
I'm guessing he meant correct in on future models if they want future business. I can't imagine someone wanting replacement on six year old upholstery even though that's a pretty lousy service life in my opinion.
Probably, but "In 2005, the vinyl quality changed for the better." was posted only a few comments before, so....
It was bad material and IMO, some of it was never meant to be used for cushions in the first place but why it happened was covered early in this thread. Cheap vinyl is bad enough but when a manufacturer has to make a decision because of an EPA mandate regarding chemicals used in products without being able to test that product, it's not going to go well for a few years.
atlfootr
09-06-2010, 12:53 PM
mag.....missed this thread.......
i have a 2004 X9 (as you know)
replaced vinyl on
rear seat......twice
observer seat......once
both ski lockers.....once.....
front starboard bow cushion.....once
cracks appearing on engine cover......
i have left my rear seat out this season to stop it cracking...
it is poor quality......too many stitches......and too many excuses.....
did get a couple of the re-covers done on warranty after one year....He also missed the MILLIONS of POSTS I handed out :rolleyes:
JohnE
09-06-2010, 12:58 PM
If anyone could post pictures of a 2009/2010 X1 complete interior. i am interested in ordering new skins for my 2004 205V and except for the drivers seat the cushions don't seem to have changed?
ICBW, but I think they want a HIN when an order is made for replacement skins.......not positive though.
Wake2004
09-07-2010, 10:55 AM
Wetfoot100, Thank you for the pictures. Still looking for 2009 or 2010 pictures if anyone has any?
JohnE that might be needed, worst case I use a # from a dealer inventory. Just a thought
kantwaittochill
09-19-2010, 11:03 PM
Wow these old threads are nice - Even though posting all the pic's may not help get my boat fixed - I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with this issue - Thank for taking the time to post.
Thought I had used the wrong product to clean my boat - Guess it was just bad vinyl.
Love my boat, but need new seats...
mallees
09-20-2010, 10:09 PM
Update on an earlier post last year, I finally bit the bullet and had all my vinyl replaced, really happy with the result. I contemplated having original skins freighted over to Australia, but at AUD$ 10K just to get the skins over here, I then needed to get a shop to replace the foam and install them for me. Would've ended up costing about AUD$ 13K
As I had the whole job done locally, I was able to change the colors around a bit. Here are some before and after pics.
mallees
09-20-2010, 10:10 PM
Here are the after pics
LaRue
09-20-2010, 11:03 PM
i like what you did by making it your own. looks really good!
mallees
09-20-2010, 11:29 PM
Thanks LaRue, we figured that if we were spending all that money, we wanted to see something different. It looks really good, now we just need for the weather to warm up a bit, and for all our flooded rivers to subside a bit, then we can put her in the water.
kentcunningham
09-20-2010, 11:32 PM
I did EXACTLY the same thing and replaced all of the strips in the seats with solid pieces of MUCH better vinyl that will not tear. The differences in quality is amazing, and it is tons easier to clean as well. Nice job on your vinyl too...looks suhweet!!!
JulioX2
09-21-2010, 12:54 AM
Wow looks really good, makes the boat look brand new.
87PS190
09-21-2010, 06:55 AM
Mallees, looks fantastic! Great job. Hope you have a great summer! I'm bummed ours is ending.
AussieMC
09-21-2010, 05:54 PM
Nice work Mate. About time you did something with that mess :D. I'm prob going to have to do something with mine soon.
mallees
09-21-2010, 07:12 PM
Nice work Mate. About time you did something with that mess :D. I'm prob going to have to do something with mine soon.
Hey Shane, Yeah it was really getting embarrassing. The quality of the vinyl is really good, as is the workmanship. I have a guy in Echuca booked up to give the whole boat a cut and polish in a couple weeks, I even gave the old girl a service. It will be just like a new boat again.
Now that the concrete has been poured up at the cabin, I'm getting stuck in to enclosing the carport, so she will be out of the elements completely, except when we are on the water.
Its gunna be a great summer :)
How is your foot going, still giving you grief.
If you get a chance over the summer, you and the boys should pop down for the weekend and have a beer or 2. We have plenty of room in the cabin for blow-ins..
AussieMC
09-21-2010, 07:29 PM
It really looks like they've done a good job, can't wait to see it in person.Thanks for the invite Mal, I'll try to organise getting down there this season. My foot is fine/OK (good days/bad days). I had a mishap with my boat 2 weeks ago.I'll posts some pics and the story, when I get over it, and it gets repaired. Let's just say, make sure you put your trailer hitch on properly before you move your boat.
mallees
09-21-2010, 09:00 PM
It really looks like they've done a good job, can't wait to see it in person.Thanks for the invite Mal, I'll try to organise getting down there this season. My foot is fine/OK (good days/bad days). I had a mishap with my boat 2 weeks ago.I'll posts some pics and the story, when I get over it, and it gets repaired. Let's just say, make sure you put your trailer hitch on properly before you move your boat.
Ohhhh no!! I'm not sure I want to know:(
absolutezero
06-14-2011, 12:19 PM
It sucks that the material appears to be of poor quality for those years. I don't think it's MCs repsonsibility to replace though. Even if you thought you were buying a better boat (which in most ways I believe you were). There is a reason the warranty only lasts for so long. Hopefully they learned from it and the new stuff is of better quality. If it were my boat, I'd be really upset, but I don't think I'd feel differently.
with that said, it looks like this guy picked a decent alternative to replacing with the old stuff (2011 interior) http://onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=29084 looks pretty good to me.
I'm actually looking at boats in the range were this vinyl was used. What is the cost of new materials? What if I wanted to order the latest (2011) vinyl from MC? Do they just ship the vinyl and i need to get someone to install it? Is installing vinyl a much harder process than normal sewing?
I would love to upgrade my interior to the new material. I have a 2000 210 VRS that is in need of a new interior.
with that said, it looks like this guy picked a decent alternative to replacing with the old stuff (2011 interior) http://onlyinboards.com/Details.aspx?ID=29084 looks pretty good to me.
I'm actually looking at boats in the range were this vinyl was used. What is the cost of new materials? What if I wanted to order the latest (2011) vinyl from MC? Do they just ship the vinyl and i need to get someone to install it? Is installing vinyl a much harder process than normal sewing?
The cost of the materials depends on which vinyl is chosen and there's a wide range. In case you didn't read the early posts, the vinyl used in those years was the result of EPA rule changes and, unfortunately, when the EPA gets a bug up their shorts about one material or another, they usually don't allow much time to find a replacement. This means, nobody knows when the changes will come, so they can't do durability testing to find out what works and what doesn't. My GM truck is a good example- it used to have a wide band of silver paint on the sides. In the case of vinyl, the surface is often not able to stretch as much as the older types and that makes it prone to cracking.
Re: "Is installing vinyl a much harder process than normal sewing?"- that depends. How good do you want it to look? It can't be installed when it's cold and whoever installs the skins needs to know this. A steamer is needed for the best results and most people don't have access to one, but upholsterers do. Also, if the pitch of the stitching (this refers to how many stitches/inch) is too close, the vinyl will tear along the seams when people kneel, step or put their fist down to move around on it because it will be perforated too many times along that seam. If the pitch is too wide, the seams will be weak and look like crap.
You could probably order new skins with the 2011 materials and patterns but there's no guarantee the new seat cushions are the same as yours. They do change them over time and if they are the same, it's just luck. You would want to call MC to find out who has the patterns for your boat, based on the hull ID.
morphis
06-17-2011, 05:21 PM
I have on 05 X2 with about 450 hours on it. I have absolutely babied this boat in terms of keeping it covered when not in use and garaged. My upholstery particularly on the back where there are so many panels sown together as you show in your post is doing the same thing. If it is as others here have suggested an issue with a range of years while MC was changing their source for the material am I better off not ordering replacement skins from MC that match the boat? I was told by my dealer that they changed their policy and no longer offer replacement skins for ten years. This is the last year I can order a matching replacement skin and at the end of the season I was planning on ordering about four skins that have had issues. Would they be using the same material? Should I just get it redone at a upholstery shop?
91.Maristar.240
06-23-2011, 08:23 PM
They must not make them like they used to because my 20 yr old boats original interior is an 8.5 out of 10 but it also only has 241 hrs. on it. I think that's pretty lame especially considering you take care of your ****!
They must not make them like they used to because my 20 yr old boats original interior is an 8.5 out of 10 but it also only has 241 hrs. on it. I think that's pretty lame especially considering you take care of your ****!
If you would read the early posts, you would see the reason the material went south. Pretty brave for your first post when you have no first-hand knowledge of the situation.
241 hours on a 20 year-old boat- what's the point of owning it if you don't use it?
91.Maristar.240
06-25-2011, 04:02 PM
I just bought it!
And i don't see anything bold or rude in anyway about my post!
You must of miss understood my intentions!
But yours are obvious!
bigmac
06-25-2011, 06:34 PM
It's not that that material went south. Mistakes and the EPA happen. The bug up my *** is that MasterCraft not only won't stand behind it, they won't even offer replacements.
I'm sure my stringers are pristine and that boat's hull will last 100 years. In the meantime, the vinyl looks like ****, my arm rest has fallen off, I'm on my third fuel pump, my trailer brakes lock up, and my dash rattles like a 15 year old Bayliner.
MasterCraft quality.
91.Maristar.240
06-25-2011, 07:04 PM
It's not that that material went south. Mistakes and the EPA happen. The bug up my *** is that MasterCraft not only won't stand behind it, they won't even offer replacements.
I'm sure my stringers are pristine and that boat's hull will last 100 years. In the meantime, the vinyl looks like ****, my arm rest has fallen off, I'm on my third fuel pump, my trailer brakes lock up, and my dash rattles like a 15 year old Bayliner.
MasterCraft quality.
what year is your boat?
I just bought it!
And i don't see anything bold or rude in anyway about my post!
You must of miss understood my intentions!
But yours are obvious!
I didn't see anything positive in "They must not make them like they used to because my 20 yr old boats original interior is an 8.5 out of 10 but it also only has 241 hrs. on it. I think that's pretty lame especially considering you take care of your ****!", which was your first post. No "Hi- my name is XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX and I just bought a beautiful 20 year old MC with 241 hours on it" or anything else. I had nothing to go by,other than what you wrote.
If you would read further, you'll see that my intentions are to help people solve their problems and, having been a MC tech, I have been able to do that for quite a few. That said, feel free to post photos of your boat- we always like to see them. Enjoy it and if you have any questions, feel free to ask.
91.Maristar.240
06-26-2011, 10:55 AM
I didn't see anything positive in "They must not make them like they used to because my 20 yr old boats original interior is an 8.5 out of 10 but it also only has 241 hrs. on it. I think that's pretty lame especially considering you take care of your ****!", which was your first post. No "Hi- my name is XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX and I just bought a beautiful 20 year old MC with 241 hours on it" or anything else. I had nothing to go by,other than what you wrote.
If you would read further, you'll see that my intentions are to help people solve their problems and, having been a MC tech, I have been able to do that for quite a few. That said, feel free to post photos of your boat- we always like to see them. Enjoy it and if you have any questions, feel free to ask.
what i was trying to say was ... that the quality of material must have taken a dive since my boat was manufactured because my interior is doing fine after 20 years. And that I think it sucks that his interior is already shot especially since he takes great pride and care in it!
what i was trying to say was ... that the quality of material must have taken a dive since my boat was manufactured because my interior is doing fine after 20 years. And that I think it sucks that his interior is already shot especially since he takes great pride and care in it!
Nobody thinks it's a good thing that the interiors deteriorated but there's always a reason for these things and the reasons given, at least by me and some others, came directly from MC and at least one upholstery materials supplier. The supplier I called is also a manufacturer, so they have a better handle on the actual EPA guidelines and when the EPA says that a material can't be used, that ruling has teeth. The chemicals used in older vinyl allowed the material to last a lot longer in UV light but they have been found to be hazardous to humans, either in manufacturing or by off-gassing later. Vinyl manufacturers won't keep an unlimited supply of materials on-hand because it's not feasible and boat manufacturers/upholsterers can't because they don't have the money or storage space. Once the "good stuff" ran out, either through "just-in-time" ordering or production runs, it was not going to come back. Sourcing from outside the US can't happen if the material contains these chemicals, either.
It wasn't only MC whose skins died an early death. Any company that used this material had the same problems and as posted, when the EPA mandated the end of the line for the "good stuff", the material manufacturers had to scramble to come up with something to sell because there's no lead time when a mandate is coming. They have done this with gasoline formulations, too. That makes it hard for an automaker to design an engine and have any certainty about the fuel's characteristics WRT BTU, ethanol content and octane rating.
None of the other boat manufacturers will replace the skins and for anyone to think that MC should is a bit strange, regardless of the general quality of their boats. Remember- MC and the other boat makers design the boats, make the hull and install the rest of the components but they can't/won't make everything in a boat, so they have to rely on the suppliers to make good products and for their service network to make sure the boats are maintained properly. This last part is impossible when customers don't use the factory authorized servicers, though.
CantRepeat
06-26-2011, 12:17 PM
If you would read the early posts, you would see the reason the material went south. Pretty brave for your first post when you have no first-hand knowledge of the situation.
241 hours on a 20 year-old boat- what's the point of owning it if you don't use it?
Really? What could happen? It's the internet.
Really? What could happen? It's the internet.
You know, feelings hurt, underwear bunched up, etc.:D
Hey- the smileys are back!
CantRepeat
06-26-2011, 02:48 PM
You know, feelings hurt, underwear bunched up, etc.:D
Hey- the smileys are back!
Hey, yes, panties in a wad. That's rough! :D
And the smileys are :cool: !!
bigmac
06-26-2011, 05:28 PM
None of the other boat manufacturers will replace the skins and for anyone to think that MC should is a bit strange, regardless of the general quality of their boats. Remember- MC and the other boat makers design the boats, make the hull and install the rest of the components but they can't/won't make everything in a boat, so they have to rely on the suppliers to make good products and for their service network to make sure the boats are maintained properly. This last part is impossible when customers don't use the factory authorized servicers, though.
I don't know about other manufacturers. I only know that MasterCraft used substandard vinyl in my boat and it cracked and split within 4 years despite diligent care and always being under cover. That and my other picky bull**** issues with this boat makes me snort when people start waving the "MasterCraft Quality" banner.
Don't get me wrong. It's a good boat. But there are lots of good boats out there. It's just not an extraordinary boat. In my experience.
.
Hey, yes, panties in a wad. That's rough! :D
And the smileys are :cool: !!
It's the chafing that's worst. :(
Patsfan
07-24-2011, 09:04 PM
WHAT?? Are you going to tell everyone that gets in your boat not to neal on the vinyl!!!
To much stitching to make the boats look great. More holes more problems.
deminimis
07-25-2011, 05:49 PM
Disregard (had a question and found the answer in another thread).