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View Full Version : My cash for your clunker....


Gonzo
08-06-2009, 07:10 PM
Ok, I know the side benefit of the CARS program is people start spending money again. But I Have a question for our Environmental friends (that own big v8 boats) here on the site.

If the programs intent was to lessen our footprint on the environment and dependency on foreign oil. How does trading in and demoing our older cars do this. In the rules it says no cars over 25 yrs old. Well if catalytic converters became mandatory in 1981 aren't we only getting about 6 yrs worth of non emissions controlled vehicles off the roads? Also don't you have to expend a great deal of energy either here or abroad to produce cars, or do they grow on trees and we pluck them by hand? and I am guessing the car crushers run on farts and rainbows. I see the obvious sell more cars and try to get the auto industry we own out of the toilet bit. But I cant see the logic in the rules when it comes to the environment. Don't get me wrong, if I weren't thinking ahead and already driving an older vehicle that's great on gas I would probably take advantage of it, instead I am just once again paying for someone else's inability to take care of themselves (happy to do) and others who are can but wont (makes me angry).

I'm sure I'm stupid, always am when it comes to President Obama's policies after all how can a democrat be wrong about the environment... or anything else for that matter... but I still don't get it.

Enlighten me.

Slinkyredfoot
08-06-2009, 07:28 PM
Neither do I...seems to me it maybe sort of like the mortgage meltdown that got all of the crap started with the banks and the entire mortgage market selling people on the idea they could afford homes, short term. Who knows, who is to say that with the economy in the toliet like it has been for the last several months that people will not be able to afford these new car payments, and defalt on car loans, and the auto industry will spiral out of control even more than it already is, just like the mortgage market did.
All I see is more fiscal debt and the long term effects of what is going on will only get worse for our children and grand children. Not to mention some pretty decent trade in vehicles, from what I have seen that are destined for the car crushers, that some less fortunate people would be anle to afford and enjoy. Beats the crap out of me....I have always beleived the less government intervention in peoples lives is the best for the people.....

Gonzo
08-06-2009, 07:33 PM
thats a good point on the new car payments, on top of the high mortgages... etc... etc... Hadnt thought of that.

Hoosier Bob
08-06-2009, 07:36 PM
I the "Going Green" was so important why not offer the programs for motorcycles?;) Why crush the vehicles? I was in a dealer today. There was an extremely nice Cadillac from 95 or so. Very nice vehicle. On the front it said "Do not touch! Destroy!" I am very sure some poor family would find a use for this vehicle. At the very least donate them to a church or Goodwill. What a bunch of crap! We will see how many of these deals actually fund with bogued up ins forms and what have you. How many of these deals will have to be unwound?:confused:

TMCNo1
08-06-2009, 07:42 PM
thats a good point on the new car payments, on top of the high mortgages... etc... etc... Hadnt thought of that.

From what they have shown on the NBC station here about the dealers and junkyards, the junk yards buy the clunkers after the dealers drain the oil and pour in a sealant to destroy the engines and parts are sold by the junk yards for up to three months, then the clunkers have to be crushed. Anybody seen any of that?

Slinkyredfoot
08-06-2009, 07:47 PM
From what they have shown on the NBC station here about the dealers and junkyards, the junk yards buy the clunkers after the dealers drain the oil and pour in a sealant to destroy the engines and parts are sold by the junk yards for up to three years then the clunkers have to be crushed. Anybody seen any of that?

Yes, there was a local Dodge dealer owner on TV the other day that says they pour some kind of crushed glass material into the crankcases of these trade ins and run them till the engine locks up...what a waste

JimN
08-06-2009, 07:49 PM
Ok, I know the side benefit of the CARS program is people start spending money again. But I Have a question for our Environmental friends (that own big v8 boats) here on the site.

If the programs intent was to lessen our footprint on the environment and dependency on foreign oil. How does trading in and demoing our older cars do this. In the rules it says no cars over 25 yrs old. Well if catalytic converters became mandatory in 1981 aren't we only getting about 6 yrs worth of non emissions controlled vehicles off the roads? Also don't you have to expend a great deal of energy either here or abroad to produce cars, or do they grow on trees and we pluck them by hand? and I am guessing the car crushers run on farts and rainbows. I see the obvious sell more cars and try to get the auto industry we own out of the toilet bit. But I cant see the logic in the rules when it comes to the environment. Don't get me wrong, if I weren't thinking ahead and already driving an older vehicle that's great on gas I would probably take advantage of it, instead I am just once again paying for someone else's inability to take care of themselves (happy to do) and others who are can but wont (makes me angry).

I'm sure I'm stupid, always am when it comes to President Obama's policies after all how can a democrat be wrong about the environment... or anything else for that matter... but I still don't get it.

Enlighten me.

That's one of the reasons this goofy plan is really useless- it will pnly make a little blip on the CO2 screen. AS far as "How can a Demorat be wrong?", they only need to think or open their mouth in many cases, IMO.

Obama's whole agenda is "Shove it through before anyone gets a chance to read it and see how we're screwing everyone and their great, great, great, great grandkids".

JimN
08-06-2009, 07:52 PM
Yes, there was a local Dodge dealer owner on TV the other day that says they pour some kind of crushed glass material into the crankcases of these trade ins and run them till the engine locks up...what a waste

Doing that actually makes it hard to recycle the parts, which I thought was environmeltally friendly, but apparently, re-using materials must be bad for the planet.

What a bunch of dirtbags.

Hoosier Bob
08-06-2009, 08:06 PM
What about vehicles that are destroyed, contracts that are unwound due to paperwork or a shortage of funds and the customer wants their car back? I think the vehicle needs to be destroyed to qualify? Hey Mr. Customer sorry but the money is gone or there was a glitch in your paperwork, here is your car Mr. Griswald!:DDoing that actually makes it hard to recycle the parts, which I thought was environmeltally friendly, but apparently, re-using materials must be bad for the planet.

What a bunch of dirtbags.

TMCNo1
08-06-2009, 08:21 PM
Oh just wait till Obama gets his health care plan and introduces a program called "Cash for Old Coots", where your kids can trade you in for a younger, more environmentally friendly parent that has entered the country illegally!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_13.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSfox000)

Hoosier Bob
08-06-2009, 08:23 PM
Who gets your boat?:DOh just wait till Obama gets his health care plan and introduces a program called "Cash for Old Coots", where your kids can trade you in for a younger, more environmentally friendly parent that has entered the country illegally!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_13.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSfox000)

TMCNo1
08-06-2009, 08:25 PM
Who gets your boat?:D

It goes into the Cash for Clunker program and turned into a salad bar at Shoney's.:rolleyes:

TMCNo1
08-06-2009, 08:37 PM
Found this on Yahoo News,

50242
Mechanics from Subaru of Manchester watch as a Jeep traded in as part of the 'cash for clunkers' program is loaded onto a flatbed from Car World auto parts in Manchester, N.H., Thursday Aug. 6, 2009. Car World expects to have about 300 of the 'Cash for Clunkers' cars in their inventory by the end of the week, which will be parted out and recycled. Those vehicles will be crushed within the six month allowed Federal window.
(AP Photo/Charles Krupa)
50243
A sign on an automobile engine indicates it has been disabled with sodium silicate solution, and headed for the junkyard in the cash for clunkers government program Friday, July 31, 2009, in Madison, Wis.
(AP Photo/Andy Manis)

Jabrew
08-06-2009, 08:56 PM
My understanding is that these deals are not final yet according to my Audi dealer.The dealers have not been told how to designate the $4500. They have not established is it a discount, trade, rebate and who is paying the taxes on the money.

Slinkyredfoot
08-06-2009, 09:11 PM
My understanding is that these deals are not final yet according to my Audi dealer.The dealers have not been told how to designate the $4500. They have not established is it a discount, trade, rebate and who is paying the taxes on the money.

I wonder how many people are trdaing in their "Cash for Clunkers" on new Audi's..like trading in a fishing boat for a new MasterCraft

Finnsdad
08-06-2009, 09:37 PM
I really think cash for clunkers is a bad idea. Here is my reasoning:

1. It is paid for with money our govenment doesn't have. 2. It is encouraging people to go into debt to buy a new car just to get the trade in deal. 3. It is artificially creating new car demand, which will result in a slump in new car sales once the program ends. 4. As far as saving the environment goes, the environmental impact of new car production is higher than the continued operation of a car that is already produced. 5. The mandated destruction of these cars is going to raise the cost of salvage yard replacement parts making it harder for low income folks to keep their cars on the road.

Here are a few things that could have made the program better: 1. Allow the trade in to count for used car purchases that meet the MPG criteria. 2. Only let the program count for new cars that are made in the USA. 3. Make it a tax credit, so the only people who benefit are those who actually pay taxes.

TOO-TALL
08-06-2009, 09:51 PM
[QUOTE=Slinkyredfoot;621648]Neither do I...seems to me it maybe sort of like the mortgage meltdown that got all of the crap started with the banks and the entire mortgage market selling people on the idea they could afford homes, short term. Who knows, who is to say that with the economy in the toliet like it has been for the last several months that people will not be able to afford these new car payments, and defalt on car loans, and the auto industry will spiral out of control even more than it already is, just like the mortgage market did.
[QUOTE]

Yup, thats just how I see it.
We were talking today at work about the cash for junk program and it looks just like the mortgage market afew years ago.Selling peolpe cars they know they can't afford.
Just my .002

JimN
08-06-2009, 10:21 PM
I really think cash for clunkers is a bad idea. Here is my reasoning:

1. It is paid for with money our govenment doesn't have. 2. It is encouraging people to go into debt to buy a new car just to get the trade in deal. 3. It is artificially creating new car demand, which will result in a slump in new car sales once the program ends. 4. As far as saving the environment goes, the environmental impact of new car production is higher than the continued operation of a car that is already produced. 5. The mandated destruction of these cars is going to raise the cost of salvage yard replacement parts making it harder for low income folks to keep their cars on the road.

Here are a few things that could have made the program better: 1. Allow the trade in to count for used car purchases that meet the MPG criteria. 2. Only let the program count for new cars that are made in the USA. 3. Make it a tax credit, so the only people who benefit are those who actually pay taxes.

You could probably add:
1. ...doesn't have yet. They will and it's coming from us.

2. ...encouraging people to go further into debt again...

3. ...a slump in new car sales once the program ends, just like it did after the employee discount promotion.

5. ...making it harder for low income folks to keep their cars on the road. They don't care about keeping low income people in new cars. These people can't afford to buy a new car, $4500 handout, or not.

Taxpayers (property tax) were originally the only people who qualified to vote in many elections in Colonial times. They eventually saw it as unfair to those who don't, which is true because they would have no say in government. However, when I talk with some people, usually college students, they almost universally think they have all of the answers which is typical of college students. It typifies the college students of the '50s, '60s and '70s who were the most destructive, had the most extreme views against the US government regardless of which party was in office and to use Algore's movie title against them, the 'Unintended Consequence' of not making these extremists see how wrong their views were is that they're now in Congress and are in the position to carry out their extreme transformation of our government.

Hang on, kids- it's gonna be a rough ride.

Workin' 4 Toys
08-06-2009, 11:26 PM
When does the "cash for walkers" or "cash for bicycling" program begin? You know, the one where I get paid to not drive at all. Just wondering when it starts.



.
:rolleyes:

No Skeez
08-06-2009, 11:39 PM
Hey Mr. Customer sorry but the money is gone or there was a glitch in your paperwork, here is your car Mr. Griswald!:D

I wonder if the Family Truckster with the optional "Rally Fun Package" would qualify?

atlfootr
08-07-2009, 08:16 AM
Local dealer, set this up on car lot ...

TX.X-30 fan
08-07-2009, 08:47 AM
Another giant scheme and wasteful , for a few more miles to the gallon. Insane policy.

shepherd
08-07-2009, 09:48 AM
Local dealer, set this up on car lot ...


Nice van. I'd buy it for $4500. If the engine wasn't seized up with "liquid glass!" :mad:

#47of100TeamMC
08-07-2009, 10:08 AM
I'm surprised they didn't limit it to GM (Government Motors) Vehicles.

Anybody know if there is a loop hole that can be used to trade in your vehicle on a motorcycle? I would gladly trade in my commuter car on a Honda Goldwing. That would still be an increase in fuel economy and get my "clunker" off the road.

scott023
08-07-2009, 10:16 AM
Nice van. I'd buy it for $4500. If the engine wasn't seized up with "liquid glass!" :mad:

No doubt. That van can't be more than 6 or 7 years old. Like others have said, there are plenty of families out there that could put a vehicle like that to good use. :mad:

bbymgr
08-07-2009, 10:27 AM
....................

Gonzo
08-07-2009, 10:38 AM
Yep, Round 2 is already on its way.






50259

CameronCarey
08-08-2009, 09:26 PM
Lets borrow Money from China to give to people who don't need it so they can buy a new car from a company most likely based in Korea or Japan.

4500 dollars towards purchasing a motorcycle ...........that would be an environmentally beneficial policy. making sure that you couldn't apply it towards a car that costs more than 15 thousand dollars would force it to only benefit those who need it........

As it is its just another way to throw billions of our dollars away.

Did you vote for Obama? Thanks allot A#$ hole....

Monte
08-09-2009, 10:38 PM
Oh just wait till Obama gets his health care plan and introduces a program called "Cash for Old Coots", where your kids can trade you in for a younger, more environmentally friendly parent that has entered the country illegally!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_13.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZSfox000)

Ever seen the movie "Robots"? Yeah cartoon I know, but dayum:o:rolleyes:;)

TX.X-30 fan
08-10-2009, 03:00 AM
Did you vote for Obama? Thanks allot A#$ hole....



Nope and the fools that did are very silent now. :D

djhuff
08-10-2009, 10:22 AM
I have a clunker, and a wife that is in need of a new car since she decided to put hers into the back of a couple of others. I ran some numbers, and it is truly not worth it!!! I like to buy program cars (under 1 year old, usually under 15K mi). My truck is worth about 2K, so that's 2500 more, but I'm paying WAY more than 2500 more for that new car vs one that is "almost" new.

Granite_33
08-10-2009, 11:49 AM
Nope and the fools that did are very silent now. :D



Waiting for the "give the guy a chance" posts............

*****Crickets*******

Jesus_Freak
08-10-2009, 01:05 PM
That's one of the reasons this goofy plan is really useless- it will only make a little blip on the CO2 screen.

I expect you agree, but I want to clarify that the "blip" falsely assumes that:

1. We can [positively] affect the CO2 with this policy.
2. We can actually measure the "real" level or concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere which defines the "CO2 screen".
3. CO2 matters in the scheme of things.

Someone, please tell me something useful about the program. Our policy makers cannot possibly be this unwise.

JimN
08-10-2009, 02:20 PM
Someone, please tell me something useful about the program. Our policy makers cannot possibly be this unwise.

They can't? Since when?

JimN
08-10-2009, 02:24 PM
I expect you agree, but I want to clarify that the "blip" falsely assumes that:

1. We can [positively] affect the CO2 with this policy.
2. We can actually measure the "real" level or concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere which defines the "CO2 screen".
3. CO2 matters in the scheme of things.

Someone, please tell me something useful about the program. Our policy makers cannot possibly be this unwise.

I watched a show on The History Channel called "Big Chill-Little Ice Age" and nobody who goes along with the Global Warming idea will like what they had to say. You can google the name of the show but I would avoid the links that aren't from The History Channel.

djhuff
08-11-2009, 10:55 AM
JimN, didn't you get the memo, it's "Global Climate CHANGE" now (you know, since it's been unusually cool this summer).

JimN
08-11-2009, 01:11 PM
JimN, didn't you get the memo, it's "Global Climate CHANGE" now (you know, since it's been unusually cool this summer).

The 'Global' part has been all but removed completely since it's NOT a global phenomenon. We're cooler here but some other areas are hotter.

The point of that show was that we're only about 4 degrees higher than at the end of the Little Ice Age and still cooler than the period before that.That's my problem with all of the people who look at only the last 150 years- it's not a long enough sample. One of the things that has been used to denote the real end of the Little Ice Age is the Thames freezing over and the last time for that was 1814.

DooSPX
08-11-2009, 01:34 PM
I really think cash for clunkers is a bad idea. Here is my reasoning:

1. It is paid for with money our govenment doesn't have. 2. It is encouraging people to go into debt to buy a new car just to get the trade in deal. 3. It is artificially creating new car demand, which will result in a slump in new car sales once the program ends. 4. As far as saving the environment goes, the environmental impact of new car production is higher than the continued operation of a car that is already produced. 5. The mandated destruction of these cars is going to raise the cost of salvage yard replacement parts making it harder for low income folks to keep their cars on the road.

Here are a few things that could have made the program better: 1. Allow the trade in to count for used car purchases that meet the MPG criteria. 2. Only let the program count for new cars that are made in the USA. 3. Make it a tax credit, so the only people who benefit are those who actually pay taxes.

I agree 100%... the dumbest thing I have heard of.... lets destroy a perfectly good car so anyone else who cannot afford to have a new car cannot have it either...

TMCNo1
08-18-2009, 08:32 AM
Yep, Round 2 is already on its way.50259

50641
Explanation,
How much is your old family member worth? Turn them in to the nearest Planned Grandparenthood Center and find out! Receive cash prizes and free healthcare entitlements!
As part of a new incentive tied to Obama's upcoming healthcare reform, the network of Planned Grandparenthood Centers are to begin running ads, themed "Double Cash for Your Old Coot." The push offers a cash incentive or zero-percent financing on top of free government plans for all families whose trade-in old-timers qualify for the government's program known as "Cash for Clunkers," up to a maximum of four grandparents over 70 years of age.
Latest opinion polls show that seniors steal billions of dollars out the federal budget each year just by staying alive. This new bold initiative is calculated to save us all money by gently recycling high-maintenance old coots, thus taking them off the list of potential beneficiaries of the impeccable government health coverage.
"Everyone who signs up for our plan will get a cash incentive even if they don't turn in a qualifying old fogey," says White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs. "But families who trade in their useless members will also get a free premium plan and - for a limited time only - a rationing coupon for an extra unaborted baby!"
At the opening of the first Planned Grandparenthood Center in Washington , DC last week, Barack Obama offered a brief, optimistic cheer:
http://f337.mail.yahoo.com/ya/download?mid=1%5f21731%5fAM3JjkQAAMtSSoqF3Q3VGyIY9 PE&pid=4&fid=Inbox&inline=1"In the cold-hearted, uncaring capitalist society of the past, where every man was for himself, people often reached advanced age without any government help. It is a shame that in the richest country in the world, old people were abandoned by society and survived on their own, sometimes until they were 117 years old. No one knew or cared about how long they lived because everyone paid their own medical bills. But those dog-eat-dog days are over. In the caring, collectivist America , no one will be allowed to live without government care. And since we are paying for you, we decide how long you can be a drain on the collective wallet.
"From my meetings with community activists and focus groups I have learned one thing: once you're past seventy, you have outlived your usefulness. Progress requires sacrifice. Some don't buy a large flat-screen TV, some don't go on vacation, and some don't go on living. And since humans are nothing more than a random collection of chemical elements that can also be found in a flat-screen TV, human sacrifice is no different than material sacrifice. Do it for the children!"