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View Full Version : Oil syphon hose stuck in the Pan.


CCRX5
07-11-2009, 07:25 PM
Ok.. bonehead move while doing a routine oil change.
Hopefully someone has some advice on this. I've got a 2001 X5 and was doing a oil change while the boat was in the lift. I just picked up one of those electric pumps to syphon out through the dipstick tube. When I feed the line down the tube it apparently coiled when it exited the bottom of the tube. Now its stuck down in the pan some how.

Any thoughts on getting this out without having to pull the pan?

Appologies if theres already a post on this.

Thanks

Footin
07-11-2009, 07:32 PM
Is the hose still sticking out the top of the tube?

Pull hard?

CCRX5
07-11-2009, 07:35 PM
Yeah. I've got a couple feet to work with.

CCRX5
07-11-2009, 07:36 PM
Pulled pretty hard. I'm worried its sinching up on something.

Footin
07-11-2009, 07:37 PM
Is it rubber? I do not understand what is holding it in the tube.........anyway, how about a straightened coat hanger down the center of the stuck hose to straighten it out to get it "unstuck"

CCRX5
07-11-2009, 07:39 PM
Thats a good idea. Thanks I'm going to go give that s shot.

Chicago190
07-11-2009, 07:44 PM
Try twisting it as you pull.

For future reference, this is why you NEVER put the oil suction hose through the dipstick tube. I recall someone got the hose stuck and had to pull the motor to remove the oil pan. Insert the oil pump hose in the oil pan drain hose next time.

CCRX5
07-11-2009, 08:23 PM
Yeah.. no go. coat hanger, twisting, pulling hard. I've pull the dipstick tube so I can get close to the block to twist an pull but no luck. The sucker is stuck in there. The boats on a lift so the next step is to get it out and back on the trailer. I gues the motors going to need to comeup so we can get the pan off.

Thanks for the suggestions. I hate these kind of expensive lessons.. Trying to keep a smile on my face. :)

mayo93prostar
07-11-2009, 09:11 PM
did you try pushing it back in some, twisting, then trying to remove. this may free it up. I can not imagine what it is stuck in but you must have put it in too far.

JimN
07-11-2009, 09:23 PM
Yeah.. no go. coat hanger, twisting, pulling hard. I've pull the dipstick tube so I can get close to the block to twist an pull but no luck. The sucker is stuck in there. The boats on a lift so the next step is to get it out and back on the trailer. I gues the motors going to need to comeup so we can get the pan off.

Thanks for the suggestions. I hate these kind of expensive lessons.. Trying to keep a smile on my face. :)

If you have an electrician's fish tape, it's stiffer, so you can push more, although you'll need to make sure it doesn't push through the plastic tube. You may be able to turn it in the tube and gain more depth and then twist the tube with the tape.

In future- if you're going to push anything down the dipstic tube, make sure it's a metal one, so it won't do this. If you want to use plastic, use the drain tube, as recommended.

kenk
07-11-2009, 09:28 PM
Try to attach a compressed air hose to the tube....you should be able to find a small compression fitting (check plumbing supply store)...the gradually increase the air pressure...the hose should get stiffer and stiffer and start to straighten out....good luck

CCRX5
07-11-2009, 10:06 PM
It very strange.. I was able to turn the motor by hand just a little and it doesn't tug on the hose so its not in the crank. I'm thinking it have wrapped the oil pump or something. I can get the coat hanger slide down in but it it hits a kink or something and will not budge. I think at this point I've got to pull the pan. Don't want to break brake the pump or tear the hose in which case I'd have to pull it anyway. I clearly pushed it down to far.

Its a bummer.

CCRX5
07-11-2009, 10:08 PM
Another good thought. I'll give that a shot and report back

Chicago190
07-11-2009, 11:02 PM
With the dipstick tube removed can you feed the hose in more and unkink the hose? I'm just trying to think of ways to free it without dropping the pan. Maybe reattach the dipstick tube, fill the motor with oil, and hope the oil pump hose floats enough to unkink itself?

bigmac
07-11-2009, 11:54 PM
Two or three of these every season. The most reliable trick I've seen has been the wire-down-the-tube method, but a certain percentage will have to pull their engine to drop the oil pan to get it out.

Unfortunately, most of the oil-suction pumps on the market come with tubing that implies that this is a good way to remove the oil from an engine. Indmar has gone one far better by supplying us with a hose connected to the lowest point in the oil pan AND THEN DETAILING IN THE BOTH THE INDMAR AND MASTERCRAFT OWNER'S MANUALS THAT THIS IS THE WAY THE OIL SHOULD BE CHANGED!

Best way to avoid dripping the oil out the bilge drain IMHO is go to the hardware store and get a 1/4 NPT barbed brass fitting that will allow you to connect your suction pump tubing directly to the hose that Indmar has attached to the oil pan. That way the oil can be suctioned easily from inside the boat without molesting the dipstick hole.

http://airinc.thomasnet.com/ImgMedium/221.jpg

TMCNo1
07-12-2009, 07:09 AM
Two or three of these every season. The most reliable trick I've seen has been the wire-down-the-tube method, but a certain percentage will have to pull their engine to drop the oil pan to get it out.

Unfortunately, most of the oil-suction pumps on the market come with tubing that implies that this is a good way to remove the oil from an engine. Indmar has gone one far better by supplying us with a hose connected to the lowest point in the oil pan AND THEN DETAILING IN THE BOTH THE INDMAR AND MASTERCRAFT OWNER'S MANUALS THAT THIS IS THE WAY THE OIL SHOULD BE CHANGED!

Best way to avoid dripping the oil out the bilge drain IMHO is go to the hardware store and get a 1/4 NPT barbed brass fitting that will allow you to connect your suction pump tubing directly to the hose that Indmar has attached to the oil pan. That way the oil can be suctioned easily from inside the boat without molesting the dipstick hole.

http://airinc.thomasnet.com/ImgMedium/221.jpg

Thanks Bigmac for the most viable option out there other than the traditional gravity drain method. This stuck tube down the dipstick tube madness needs to stop. I'll bookmark this for future reference.

vision
07-12-2009, 08:28 AM
The actual dip stick tube can be removed on some motors. You may be able to remove the dipstick tube and give yourself a better angle to remove the siphon tube.

JimN
07-12-2009, 10:33 AM
I don't know why anyone would suck the oil out through the dipstick tube, anyway. The drain hose is below the lowest point on the pan, at the bottom of the fitting that screws in where the drain screw would normally be and using this will drain it more completely.

bigmac
07-12-2009, 12:21 PM
I can understand it. Harder and messier to let it drip through the hull drain as MasterCraft shows in the owner's manual, and impossible to do so on a boat lift. And the oil draining pumps everyplace sells have tubing designed to go down the dipstick. It's an attractive alternative, although obviously not without pitfalls. Pretty easy and cheap to rig up the best of both worlds, though.

JimN
07-12-2009, 12:26 PM
I can understand it. Harder and messier to let it drip through the hull drain as MasterCraft shows in the owner's manual, and impossible to do so on a boat lift. And the oil draining pumps everyplace sells have tubing designed to go down the dipstick. It's an attractive alternative, although obviously not without pitfalls. Pretty easy and cheap to rig up the best of both worlds, though.

I'm not sure it's designed to go down the dipstick, though. Someone may have written that in their description but they should have made a note about whether the motor has a drain hose. If they did that, they'd probably sell a lot more drain hoses.

The only manufacturer that I know of who makes their dipstick for sucking the oil out is Mercruiser and that has a threaded end that's the same size as a garden hose. The problem with this setup is that it takes an awful lot of vacuum to suck all of the oil out. With the drain hose, the oil removal can be aided by gravity and by taking the oil from the lowest point, more can be removed.

As I have recommended for people who boat/ski/wakeboard with a group, get the bucket with the electric pump on top. Overton's and other places sell it. It's more expensive that the manual ones but it worls much better. Unless the oil has chunks in it, the impeller should last quite a while and they also sell replacements. It saves time, works better than the manual ones and makes draining by gravity a waste of time, IMO.

If someone looked at how these were assembled, they could conceivably make their own but not for sale- I'm pretty sure someone has the rights to this design.

CCRX5
07-12-2009, 11:02 PM
Ok.. well it came out after Jacking with it for a long time with vise grips pushing it in turning yanking it finally broke free.

The was one of those electric oil pumps on top of the bucket and all I can say is I don't recommend going down the dipstick tube with it. It will likely curl when the hose exits the dipstick tube in the pan and you won't get all the oil out.

What worked well (after I was able to get back on track with the actual oil change) was the fitting which bigmac recommended. I ran the motor for ten minutes then put the pump on the fitting and it took only about 10 more minutes to drain.

20minute oil change hijacked me for a day and half.

Thanks again for all the good suggestions.

bigmac
07-12-2009, 11:48 PM
Good news!

bigmac
07-13-2009, 08:39 AM
I'm not sure it's designed to go down the dipstick, though.

Every single oil extraction pump on the market, including the Shurflo (bucket-with-motor-on-top) is designed and advertised to drain the oil through the dipstick. On most of them, those hoses are wire-wrapped to facilitate that, but AFAIK, none of them make any provision for connecting to the 1/4 inch NPT fitting on our boat oil drain hoses. This is a mistake, IMHO.

My previous boat (Yamaha I/O) had the garden hose fitting on it that you mention. That worked OK, but requires that the dipstick tube go all the way to the bottom of the oil pan. The drain hose that we all have now is brilliant and much more efficient IMHO, but they're missing a bet by not recommending or providing the ability to use a suction pump to empty the pan through that hose.

JimN
07-13-2009, 09:17 AM
Every single oil extraction pump on the market, including the Shurflo (bucket-with-motor-on-top) is designed and advertised to drain the oil through the dipstick. On most of them, those hoses are wire-wrapped to facilitate that, but AFAIK, none of them make any provision for connecting to the 1/4 inch NPT fitting on our boat oil drain hoses. This is a mistake, IMHO.

My previous boat (Yamaha I/O) had the garden hose fitting on it that you mention. That worked OK, but requires that the dipstick tube go all the way to the bottom of the oil pan. The drain hose that we all have now is brilliant and much more efficient IMHO, but they're missing a bet by not recommending or providing the ability to use a suction pump to empty the pan through that hose.

Some of the vacuum tanks have a stiff wire inside of the plastic tubing, which would work but it can restrict flow. MC/Indmar/PCM have had the drain hose for 20+ years and if the pump manufacturers don't pick up on how much better it is, that's their problem but it also makes it the boat owners' problem because the tubes without a wire are destined to cause the same problem as what prompted this thread. As far as the NPT fitting, I think hot oil may cause the hose to collapse, under certain circumstances (like high vacuum).

bigmac
07-13-2009, 09:24 AM
As far as the NPT fitting, I think hot oil may cause the hose to collapse, under certain circumstances (like high vacuum).

It doesn't. I use the Pela pump, which has a pump to create a vacuum in the tank. It uses some soft vinyl hose that the wire-wrapped dipstick tubing is attached to. I cut off that soft vinyl tubing to plug the NPT barb into. To change oil, I get the engine to temp, oil nice and hot. Then I create high vacuum in the tank with the pump. Tubing doesn't collapse. Engine oil is drained in about 5 minutes.

JimN
07-13-2009, 09:40 AM
It doesn't. I use the Pela pump, which has a pump to create a vacuum in the tank. It uses some soft vinyl hose that the wire-wrapped dipstick tubing is attached to. I cut off that soft vinyl tubing to plug the NPT barb into. To change oil, I get the engine to temp, oil nice and hot. Then I create high vacuum in the tank with the pump. Tubing doesn't collapse. Engine oil is drained in about 5 minutes.

That has the spring-loaded diaphragm, right? That's like what I used at the first dealership and it had the wire in plastic tubes, or brass tubes but that one used a compressor to pull the diaphragm back. The vacuum is good but not as high as I meant and as the tank fills, the vacuum decreases due to less spring tension. What I was referring to is when there's some reason for the flow to be cut off (a clot of sludge or ?) in the fitting and the vacuum really increases. Old hoses are more flexible and that can be a problem but I kind of like having the source of the vacuum to be right at the fitting under the pan.

It could just be me, though.

TMCNo1
07-13-2009, 10:01 AM
If you insist on pumping thru the dipstick tube, one trick I learned, used and just remembered in a previous life with a I/O was to mark the tube with a magic marker or tape 1" longer than the dipstick. Only insert that much tube and when it starts drawing air, only insert an additional 1/4" of tube at a time till you are satisfied you have removed the roughly 4 quarts of oil from the pan. Don't just cram 4' or 5' of tubing down the dipstick tube when you only needed 31" or so and it won't have the ability to coil up or kink inside the pan.

treptowr
07-13-2009, 10:26 AM
Got me worried now. I drain my oil through the drain hose, but every 100 hours when I change tranny fluid (15w40 oil), I go through the dipstick/fill hole with a stiff small diameter white tube on a suction pump. Do I have to worry about getting that stuck in there?

bigmac
07-13-2009, 10:43 AM
That has the spring-loaded diaphragm, right? That's like what I used at the first dealership and it had the wire in plastic tubes, or brass tubes but that one used a compressor to pull the diaphragm back. The vacuum is good but not as high as I meant and as the tank fills, the vacuum decreases due to less spring tension. What I was referring to is when there's some reason for the flow to be cut off (a clot of sludge or ?) in the fitting and the vacuum really increases. Old hoses are more flexible and that can be a problem but I kind of like having the source of the vacuum to be right at the fitting under the pan.

It could just be me, though.

No, the Pela is a spherical 6 liter tank with a one-way valve on top. You take the detachable suction pump and apply it to the lid and pumping it create a big vacuum in the tank, which in turn provides the suction that draws the oil. The more you pump it, the more suction you create. Being a naturally impatient guy, I pump it A LOT.

Nice simple unit, easy to use. I bought it primarily because it was on sale at Fleet Farm.

http://www.pelaproducts.com/PL2000BH-parts.gif http://www.pelaproducts.com/PL2000-conn.gif http://www.pelaproducts.com/PL2000BH-user.gif http://mccollister.info/PL2000-out.jpg

Chicago190
07-13-2009, 10:53 AM
Got me worried now. I drain my oil through the drain hose, but every 100 hours when I change tranny fluid (15w40 oil), I go through the dipstick/fill hole with a stiff small diameter white tube on a suction pump. Do I have to worry about getting that stuck in there?

When I do my transmission fluid I just insert the tube through the dipstick hole until I see/feel it touch the bottom. As long as you don't get it caught on anything inside you don't have to worry about the tube coiling and not coming out of the dipstick hole because it isn't a small tube like the engine dipstick.

Abe
07-13-2009, 01:38 PM
OK, So after reading some of the posts on this thread, I'm a wee bit concerned as to The best way to change my oil on my MC. Ive read about the Pela oil extractor and the good feedback it has, But no way am I going to stick anything down the dipstick tube.
Whats wrong with just using the oil drain hose supplied, I was thinking of warming the engine up to temp, Then sticking the oil drain hose thru hull and drain that way,

Whats the cons of doing it this way, is it because it takes ages to seep through or what.

bigmac
07-13-2009, 01:53 PM
OK, So after reading some of the posts on this thread, I'm a wee bit concerned as to The best way to change my oil on my MC. Ive read about the Pela oil extractor and the good feedback it has, But no way am I going to stick anything down the dipstick tube.
Whats wrong with just using the oil drain hose supplied, I was thinking of warming the engine up to temp, Then sticking the oil drain hose thru hull and drain that way,

Whats the cons of doing it this way, is it because it takes ages to seep through or what.

The crux of this thread is about why NO ONE should ever stick any kind of tubing down the dipstick.

What I said was that I went down to the hardware store and got a fitting that allows me to throw away the Pela's dispstick tubing and hook the extractor directly up the oil pan drain hose. http://airinc.thomasnet.com/ImgMedium/221.jpgI wanted to do it that way because a) my boat is in a lift - no way to drain the oil as MasterCraft demonstrates in the owner's manual b) it's slow and messy.

JimN
07-13-2009, 02:01 PM
OK, So after reading some of the posts on this thread, I'm a wee bit concerned as to The best way to change my oil on my MC. Ive read about the Pela oil extractor and the good feedback it has, But no way am I going to stick anything down the dipstick tube.
Whats wrong with just using the oil drain hose supplied, I was thinking of warming the engine up to temp, Then sticking the oil drain hose thru hull and drain that way,

Whats the cons of doing it this way, is it because it takes ages to seep through or what.

Draining by using gravity is a waste of time, IMO. Use the drain hose, use suction and get on with your day. Life is too short to wait for oil to drain out.

Covi
07-13-2009, 02:16 PM
OK, So after reading some of the posts on this thread, I'm a wee bit concerned as to The best way to change my oil on my MC. Ive read about the Pela oil extractor and the good feedback it has, But no way am I going to stick anything down the dipstick tube.
Whats wrong with just using the oil drain hose supplied, I was thinking of warming the engine up to temp, Then sticking the oil drain hose thru hull and drain that way,

Whats the cons of doing it this way, is it because it takes ages to seep through or what.

Abe, I'm with you. If I'm going to change the oil, I use the oil drain hose that is attached to the pan. Yes, heat the boat up so that the oil runs. If your concern on the time that it is taken to drain. Then I would grab a beer and a rod and wait it out. Atleast you wont have to pull the engine to retrieve the hose that apparently can get stuck LOL.

mark g
07-13-2009, 02:41 PM
when its time i usually ski in the day take the boat out and let it drain overnight fill her up following day not saying it gets it all out but beats waiting around all day

Abe
07-13-2009, 02:57 PM
I appreciate and understand what "bigmac and JimN, are saying regards the Pela pump and attachment, But when My mc comes out the loch and on my trailer, Times not really an issue with draining the oil.
Surely after running the engine up to temp then draining thru hull into a bucket, Say even overnight, Cant be that hard, Yes it would be slow but not messy.

Just trying to figure out the best way to do it.

bigmac
07-13-2009, 03:01 PM
OK, So after reading some of the posts on this thread, I'm a wee bit concerned as to The best way to change my oil on my MC.

http://airinc.thomasnet.com/ImgMedium/221.jpg

The drain hose on your MasterCraft is a male fitting sized at 1/4 inch NPT (National Pipe Thread (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_pipe_thread)), which is a US standard for pipe fittings. I'm not sure if NPT fittings are available in the UK, which uses BSPT (British Standard Pipe Thread) and is incompatible with the US standard.

Unless UK-exported boats have a different drain hose attached that uses BSPT fittings....

bigmac
07-13-2009, 03:07 PM
I appreciate and understand what "bigmac and JimN, are saying regards the Pela pump and attachment, But when My mc comes out the loch and on my trailer, Times not really an issue with draining the oil.
Surely after running the engine up to temp then draining thru hull into a bucket, Say even overnight, Cant be that hard, Yes it would be slow but not messy.

Just trying to figure out the best way to do it. For me, the best way to do it is the way I described. But that's takes into account that my boat sits on a boat lift on the lake, a hardware store with the right fitting is about 5 minutes from my house, and the fitting itself cost less than $1. For you, the best method may be sticking the hose out the hull drain.

It's a matter of convenience, not necessity.

ski_king
07-13-2009, 03:08 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3372/3591659494_5c03c6b3ff.jpg

davomaddo
07-13-2009, 03:09 PM
bigmac, thanks for the fitting idea. That is great.

I have never had issues with the dipstick method. My pump has a super stiff plastic tube, which wouldn't really coil or get stuck. However, I like the ideal of draining from the hose (the absolute bottom) better.

I used to drain out the thru hull. On a V-Drive it is tricky to snake the hose through the thru hull. On my Malibu wakesetter, I had to unscrew the cap on the drain hose for it to fit through the thru hull - which was a big mess. I never could get all the oil out using that method, either.

I am just saying - there are tons of reasons why you might want to use a pump.

FrankSchwab
07-13-2009, 03:10 PM
I'm a fan of letting gravity do the job. I attach an extension hose to the oil drain pan hose, run it through the transom drain, and come back tomorrow. Life is too short to wait for oil to drain out, whether gravity driven or pump driven.

It also means I don't have to screw with hot oil - I drain it cold. None of the arguments that I've heard for draining hot hold up to much scrutiny, unless you're violating JimN's law quoted above.

/frank

ski_king
07-13-2009, 03:11 PM
The crux of this thread is about why NO ONE should ever stick any kind of tubing down the dipstick..

Unless done by a urologist.....

Abe
07-13-2009, 03:13 PM
For me, the best way to do it is the way I described. But that's takes into account that my boat sits on a boat lift on the lake, a hardware store with the right fitting is about 5 minutes from my house, and the fitting itself cost less than $1. For you, the best method may be sticking the hose out the hull drain.

It's a matter of convenience, not necessity.

Thanks for The info there "bigmac.