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panamawake
07-09-2009, 06:49 PM
Hi everyone, I am new to these posts, and im writting all the way from the republic of Panama. I just bought a 2004 mastercraft xstar with 350 vortec engine on it, and yesterday my oil pressure gauge began to show loss of pressure. When I further investigated the engine I saw a milky white oil everywhere. Seems to be transmission oil. Any ideas what the problem might be? I think the transmission oil also seems to be taking on some water.
Any help is gratefully appreciated since i am in a country where no one has ever handled mastercraft. I actually have the first one here.

KnoxX2
07-09-2009, 10:37 PM
Bump!!!
JimN
BigMac

Chicago190
07-09-2009, 10:47 PM
Is the milky white oil in the bilge, on the engine dipstick, or transmission dipstick? A transmission fluid leak will not present itself on the gauges as a loss of engine oil pressure. Please specify where the oil loss presented itself.

JimN
07-09-2009, 11:03 PM
Hi everyone, I am new to these posts, and im writting all the way from the republic of Panama. I just bought a 2004 mastercraft xstar with 350 vortec engine on it, and yesterday my oil pressure gauge began to show loss of pressure. When I further investigated the engine I saw a milky white oil everywhere. Seems to be transmission oil. Any ideas what the problem might be? I think the transmission oil also seems to be taking on some water.
Any help is gratefully appreciated since i am in a country where no one has ever handled mastercraft. I actually have the first one here.

Where was the boat used before you bought it? If it was in a colder location, it may not have been properly winterized and the oil cooler may have cracked. If it is motor oil, this isn't a good sign. If it overheated badly, a head gasket may have gone away and this could be the result. If that happened, there's only one way to fix it and that's by removing the intake manifold, heads and replacing them with marine gaskets. If the motor has been worked on for anything major, you may be able to file an insurance claim.

panamawake
07-10-2009, 03:26 PM
The milky white oil is in the bilge underneath the motor. When i checked the transmission dipstick it also seemed milky white and low, which lead me to believe that it was taking on water (because otherwise it should not be white correct?).
I do know that it would not present itself as a loss of oil pressure which is why I also put a quart of engine oil in the motor to see if that was the issue. When i did the oil gauge went up, but i still worry where the oil is comming from and why it looked like transmission oil. Ive cleaned the entire bilge area to see if i can identify a drip of any sort and i will be going out today to take a look.
The engine never seemed to overheat at any point, and i never got a check engine beep, but rather the radio turned off and a heard a softer beep tone. When I put the motor in gear and got moving i assume the little bit of pressure still in the engine managed to stop that warning and up my pressure reading went from 8 to around 22.
As for the temp of the place where i bought it, it came from Georgia, which is not all that colder, but somewhat drier.
Right now i am trying to identify the oil leak without having to take the entire engine out.
Any ideas where to look would be helpful.
I will post some pics later tonight.

JimN
07-10-2009, 04:14 PM
The milky white oil is in the bilge underneath the motor. When i checked the transmission dipstick it also seemed milky white and low, which lead me to believe that it was taking on water (because otherwise it should not be white correct?).
I do know that it would not present itself as a loss of oil pressure which is why I also put a quart of engine oil in the motor to see if that was the issue. When i did the oil gauge went up, but i still worry where the oil is comming from and why it looked like transmission oil. Ive cleaned the entire bilge area to see if i can identify a drip of any sort and i will be going out today to take a look.
The engine never seemed to overheat at any point, and i never got a check engine beep, but rather the radio turned off and a heard a softer beep tone. When I put the motor in gear and got moving i assume the little bit of pressure still in the engine managed to stop that warning and up my pressure reading went from 8 to around 22.
As for the temp of the place where i bought it, it came from Georgia, which is not all that colder, but somewhat drier.
Right now i am trying to identify the oil leak without having to take the entire engine out.
Any ideas where to look would be helpful.
I will post some pics later tonight.

Northern Georgia can still get cold enough to freeze. I would remove the oil cooler on the raw water line and pressure test it. I don't know how your area is for stores that sell common plumbing parts but the trasmission
oil lines use regular pipe thread. If you can get a brass plug for one fitting an adaptor for a Shrader Valve and some Teflon tape, you can use an air compressor or tire pump to pressurize the cooler and look for air bubbles when it's dunked in a bucket of water. If it bubbles from anywhere other than the hose, it's leaking and needs to be repaired. It's just brass, so anyone with a propane torch can re-solder the joints.

As far as the motor itself, put some newspaper under it and let it sit overnight on a level surface. Look at the rear of the motor, at the rear of the oil pan. If you see nothing on the paper, you're OK as far as external leaking but it could still have internal problems.

panamawake
07-10-2009, 04:24 PM
thanks, I will try that. Is there anywhere i can get a really good mapping of my engine? votec 350? to help me identify all the parts and systems?

bigmac
07-10-2009, 04:37 PM
Why do you say it looks like transmission oil? Transmission oil in a 2004 should look just like engine oil.

In 2004, they recommended 15w40 engine oil in the transmission, so if the stuff you're seeing in the bilge is BROWN milky fluid, it could be either engine oil or transmission oil. However, you say you have the same brown milky stuff in the transmission, so that indicates that Jim is right, you most likely have a leak in your transmission cooler since that's the most likely source of water getting into the transmission.

Dunno what to say about the lower oil pressure - that could be that the engine oil was just low.

Dunno what to say about the milky oil in the bilge. That's most likely to be a bad transmission seal.

Sounds like a complicated situation. You have suddenly low oil pressure, milky brown oil in the bilge and milky brown oil in the transmission. I can't think of one problem single problem that could cause all of that.

CantRepeat
07-10-2009, 05:46 PM
And, I would not continue to run the boat until you can fix out the issue and repair it. Mix water and oil in either the trans or motor isn't going to go away until you fix it and could do more damage by running the boat.

panamawake
07-10-2009, 05:56 PM
Are you sure that the proper oil for the transmission is 15w40. In the manual it says it depends on the model.
Im going to go check the model on mine right now and see what it uses.
Transmission Model Ratio Capacity Fluid Type
ZF Hurth in-line 450D 1:1 1.7 qt. (1.6L) Dexron II, III or MECON
ZF Hurth in-line 450A 1.5:1 2.12 qt (2L) 15W40 motor oil
ZF Hurth in-line 630A 1.5:1 4.2 qt (4L) 15W40 motor oil
ZF Hurth V-drive G30V 4.2 qt (4L) 15W40 motor oil

bigmac
07-10-2009, 06:49 PM
The 2004 X-Star is a V-drive and uses a 1.5:1 gear reduction transmission. The Hurth model number on yours should be VF-63IV if you look at the plate on the front of it - that was the only V-drive transmission they used then (and now, I think). All of the gear reduction transmissions were service bulletin-ed by Indmar to use 15W40 as of about 2001in order to quiet rattling at idle. Nothing wrong with Dexron, but Indmar was getting complaints about the noise. It's not a harmful noise, just annoying to some people back then.

The list in your owner's manual you show above labels it as a G30V, but that's a misprint, should say 630V and that's the VF-63IV. Anyway, if your oil is milky brown, it's 15W40. If it's milky red, it's ATF (Dexron).

JimN
07-10-2009, 06:51 PM
thanks, I will try that. Is there anywhere i can get a really good mapping of my engine? votec 350? to help me identify all the parts and systems?

A Chevrolet owner's manual will cover most of the motor but if you can find a Clymer manual in your serial number range, that may be good too. I haven't used Clymer manuals but have heard that they're pretty good.

panamawake
07-11-2009, 03:31 AM
is there any place where i can find a good manual pdf online, or purchase?

bigmac
07-11-2009, 07:48 AM
is there any place where i can find a good manual pdf online, or purchase?

You might find the Indmar owner's manual helpful - it can be downloaded here (http://www.indmar.com/About/ContactIndmar/Manual_2003_Presentweb.pdf). And the owner's manual specific to your boat can be downloaded here (http://www.mastercraft.com/knowledge/owners_manuals/).

There are no downloadable engine or boat service manuals available, and AFAIK they're not even available for purchase. The Clymer service manual is about all that's available. It can be purchased online. (http://www.amazon.com/Indmar-1983-2003-Clymer-Marine-Repair/dp/0892879769/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247312825&sr=8-1) Note that it covers 20 years of Indmar engines. I have found it to be minimally helpful due in large part to the number of engines that it covers, but I haven't had to do any major work on my engine. For $24 it's probably worth having if you ever have to do any major work and don't have access to or can't afford a qualified Indmar tech, or in the unlikely event that JimN can't answer your questions.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51C1DSM6GBL._SS500_.jpg

panamawake
07-13-2009, 11:38 AM
First off guys, I want to say thank you. You have all been tremendously helpful, and it is incredibly reasuring to know that there are a team of considerate boating enthusiast out there trying to help the new guys like me.
Secondly, just to give you all an update. I took the boat out on Saturday and ran it in the lake, unfortunately on my way over it rained a bit so there was water in the bilge right off the bat and thus it was impossible to ever identify exactly from where motor oil was leaking. I am pretty sure that it is indeed trans oil, because if it was burnt up motor oil it would be black, and not seem milky like that of my transmission. I ran it for a while and even pulled someone a couple of times, and checked the motor levels twice, and both times they seemed fine. However the operating temparture would vary. Usually while idling after the motor had warmed up the oil temp stayed at 30, but ocassionally would drop a to a little over 20. Then once in gear and moving it would go all the way up to 60. Im not sure if this is normal, but i kept my eye on the motor temp during operation and it stayed at a consistent 160. Yesterday i gave the whole bilge a really good cleaning and placed newspaper underneath. I ran the motor a while to see if while operating i could get it to leak, but i couldnt see any obvious leaks, so i left the newspaper there and i am going to go check it again today.
Thanks again for all the help, and i will keep you all informed.

bigmac
07-13-2009, 11:55 AM
First off guys, I want to say thank you. You have all been tremendously helpful, and it is incredibly reasuring to know that there are a team of considerate boating enthusiast out there trying to help the new guys like me.
Secondly, just to give you all an update. I took the boat out on Saturday and ran it in the lake, unfortunately on my way over it rained a bit so there was water in the bilge right off the bat and thus it was impossible to ever identify exactly from where motor oil was leaking. I am pretty sure that it is indeed trans oil, because if it was burnt up motor oil it would be black, and not seem milky like that of my transmission. I ran it for a while and even pulled someone a couple of times, and checked the motor levels twice, and both times they seemed fine. However the operating temparture would vary. Usually while idling after the motor had warmed up the oil temp stayed at 30, but ocassionally would drop a to a little over 20. Then once in gear and moving it would go all the way up to 60. Im not sure if this is normal, but i kept my eye on the motor temp during operation and it stayed at a consistent 160. Yesterday i gave the whole bilge a really good cleaning and placed newspaper underneath. I ran the motor a while to see if while operating i could get it to leak, but i couldnt see any obvious leaks, so i left the newspaper there and i am going to go check it again today.
Thanks again for all the help, and i will keep you all informed. I'm guessing you're actually referring to oil pressure rather than oil temperature. Yes, those are pretty normal oil pressure readings under those circumstances.

CantRepeat
07-13-2009, 01:40 PM
Did you get a new cooler? Did you drain and replace the oil that was in the transmission?

panamawake
07-13-2009, 05:03 PM
yes, im sorry, i meant oil pressure, good to know that those are good readings.
I have not changed the cooler nor drained the oil, those will be my next steps if i do not see a leak tonight.
Thanks again guys.

panamawake
07-13-2009, 05:16 PM
mc fan, just a question to better understand, why would a leak in the oil cooler cause water to get into the transmission?
what does a new oil cooler cost approx?