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View Full Version : Dear Mastercraft, if you are listening...


duckguy
07-01-2009, 01:13 PM
Please, please build an outboard barefoot boat again! I realize it is a small piece of the pie but you have one sold already!

ProTour X9
07-01-2009, 01:32 PM
That'd be sweet, but its like asking them to make a true 19' 190....

bigmac
07-01-2009, 01:39 PM
Not a great economic climate to begin branching out into niche product lines, sad to say.

kawagaskier
07-01-2009, 01:43 PM
OK, where are the photo shop gurus, lets see what a current 190 w/ an outboard on the back looks like...

ProTour X9
07-01-2009, 01:48 PM
Not a great economic climate to begin branching out into niche product lines, sad to say.

300.






.

woftam
07-01-2009, 01:58 PM
OK, where are the photo shop gurus, lets see what a current 190 w/ an outboard on the back looks like...

Modified 197 with an outboard on the back would be better. ;)

Hoosier Bob
07-01-2009, 02:00 PM
They have the CSX or what ever right? Why not a SKISX for Bass fishing and Footing? :o

bigmac
07-01-2009, 02:02 PM
300.






.

There are niches, and there are niches. The folks that can afford a 300 are going to generally be less affected by the economy than the ones that are interested in an outboard-powered 20 foot barefoot boat.

Anyway, the 300 was already off the drawing board and in the production hopper by the time the economy tanked. The design and production scheme were already costed out, might as well go ahead and sell it, recoup some of the investment.

MYMC
07-01-2009, 02:31 PM
There are niches, and there are niches. The folks that can afford a 300 are going to generally be less affected by the economy than the ones that are interested in an outboard-powered 20 foot barefoot boat.

Anyway, the 300 was already off the drawing board and in the production hopper by the time the economy tanked. The design and production scheme were already costed out, might as well go ahead and sell it, recoup some of the investment.

Truer words were never posted
(modern adaptation of old saying)

cmw
07-01-2009, 02:41 PM
Don't you already have one? Keep it and enjoy it!

duckguy
07-01-2009, 03:20 PM
I dont know if the 190/197 hull produces a nice table for footin. But they still have the design for the 200 I would think. Use the hull from that, update the windshield, interior/dash etc. design a more current graphics scheme and voila!

flipper
07-01-2009, 03:28 PM
Don't you already have one? Keep it and enjoy it!

Duckbuck don't mess with old boats

Sodar
07-01-2009, 03:29 PM
I believe that today is the first day that the factory starts producing '10's, so now your boat is officially 2 years old. Therefore, your opinion no longer matters and you have no say in what MasterCraft should or should not be producing! Buy an '09 or '10, so you can speak again!

cmw
07-01-2009, 03:30 PM
Duckbuck don't mess with old boats

Sorry, I do remember that thread.

flipper
07-01-2009, 03:32 PM
Sorry, I do remember that thread.

I do 100% agree with you however

duckguy
07-01-2009, 03:37 PM
The original point of that thread is lost, as will the point of this thread should we argue over the fact that people who own older boats and dont have the intention of replacing said older boats with newer traditional ski boats in numbers should not in fact be upset when MC decides to try something that is not in keeping with the before mentioned traditional ski boats in an attempt to actually turn a profit.

JLeuck64
07-01-2009, 04:10 PM
Please, please build an outboard barefoot boat again! I realize it is a small piece of the pie but you have one sold already!

Make that 2!

Heck, just make the hull and trailer, I will rig it myself!!!

Sodar
07-01-2009, 04:57 PM
Something like this?

Rockman
07-01-2009, 05:51 PM
Something like this?

Come on Cameron, I thought you would at least put a Yamaha on there for me!:D

Sodar
07-01-2009, 05:59 PM
Come on Cameron, I thought you would at least put a Yamaha on there for me!:D

Verados get my pants to move. :cool:

However, the newer 350 Yami's will get them to move too, just a little to heavy for a 20' boat!

TX.X-30 fan
07-01-2009, 06:15 PM
Was the sunpad for John??

6ballsisall
07-01-2009, 06:18 PM
Something like this?

That actually looks really good!! They should go for it! Just don't forget the touchscreen monitor!!!

duckguy
07-01-2009, 06:29 PM
e-tec 225 HO!!!!

Barefoot57
07-01-2009, 06:58 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mastercraft-Barefoot-200-Boat_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a10Q7c66Q3a2Q 7c39Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q 2em14QQhashZitem4ce9e3c599QQitemZ330341533081QQptZ PowerQ5fMotorboats

Somewhat of a threadjack, but saw this BF200 on eBay. Looks to be in good shape just needs some motor work. Could be an economical way to get into a nice barefoot boat.

woftam
07-01-2009, 07:06 PM
I dont know if the 190/197 hull produces a nice table for footin. But they still have the design for the 200 I would think. Use the hull from that, update the windshield, interior/dash etc. design a more current graphics scheme and voila!

That was kind of my point with the "modified" 197 comment.
The 90's BF200's had decks/windshields based upon "80's ProStars coupled to a unique hull.
Use original BF200 hull or a development of the original BF200 hull. (BF200 hull will not mate directly with a 197 based deck)
In general, we're probably thinking along similar lines.

snork
07-01-2009, 09:25 PM
Something like this?

Why do you need an inboard and outboard at the same time:D

cbryan70
07-01-2009, 09:30 PM
the verado is just as heavy....what a beast go with a 250HO e-tec quicker out of the hole then a 250 verado ALL DAY. yamaha.....there is still 10% E in the gas so no yamis....they blow up with that gas

cbryan70
07-01-2009, 09:30 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mastercraft-Barefoot-200-Boat_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a10Q7c66Q3a2Q 7c39Q3a1Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q 2em14QQhashZitem4ce9e3c599QQitemZ330341533081QQptZ PowerQ5fMotorboats

Somewhat of a threadjack, but saw this BF200 on eBay. Looks to be in good shape just needs some motor work. Could be an economical way to get into a nice barefoot boat.

Chicago mastercraft has 2 for sale.......

JohnE
07-02-2009, 07:59 AM
The original point of that thread is lost, as will the point of this thread should we argue over the fact that people who own older boats and dont have the intention of replacing said older boats with newer traditional ski boats in numbers should not in fact be upset when MC decides to try something that is not in keeping with the before mentioned traditional ski boats in an attempt to actually turn a profit.

Neither point was lost on me. Although the wording you chose to make that first point didn't win you many fans. But your 2 points are mutually exclusive. The reason they don't build an outboard barefoot boat is because there is no profit in it. Same reason they don't make an "affordable" stripped down optionless closed bow utilitarian slalom tug. Sure there could be enough profit if they sold a couple hundred BF's a year and priced it high enough, but that would never happen.

JohnE
07-02-2009, 08:01 AM
Was the sunpad for John??

Yeah, I love it.:cool:

bigmac
07-02-2009, 08:10 AM
the verado is just as heavy....what a beast go with a 250HO e-tec quicker out of the hole then a 250 verado ALL DAY. yamaha.....there is still 10% E in the gas so no yamis....they blow up with that gas


Sorry. Such a statement will require supporting documentation before it can be taken seriously. I, for one, simply reject it as blatantly false. Yamaha outboards sell like crazy up here in the Land of 10,000 Lakes, and E10 is all that's been available for about a decade.

JohnE
07-02-2009, 08:13 AM
Everything from Bryan needs supporting documentation for me to take it seriously. Not just that post.:D

ski_king
07-02-2009, 08:13 AM
I have heard that some of the outboard bass boats (except for the interior layout) make excellent barefoot boats.

bigmac
07-02-2009, 08:22 AM
The original point of that thread is lost, as will the point of this thread should we argue over the fact that people who own older boats and dont have the intention of replacing said older boats with newer traditional ski boats in numbers should not in fact be upset when MC decides to try something that is not in keeping with the before mentioned traditional ski boats in an attempt to actually turn a profit.

I think they've done that repeatedly with their lineup, especially over the last several years - the CSX and the 300 were bold departures, as well as the new model changes that have been coming fast and furious. No doubt that lineup has changed in large part due to market research. One can only conclude that the reason they have abandoned the specialty barefoot boat concept and not reinstituted it in the last 10 years is that their market research has indicated that the market is simply too small to be worthwhile.

Jim@BAWS
07-02-2009, 09:06 AM
Something like this?



Cam...post that up on a FEW other websites and watch the rumors fly

LOVE IT

Jim@BAWS

"RUMOR CONTROL...WE START EM, WE SPREAD EM"

snork
07-02-2009, 09:08 AM
How many 190's do MC make each year?

kawagaskier
07-02-2009, 09:16 AM
Something like this?

Eliminates the concern of lack of space in a 190/197 :cool:

duckguy
07-02-2009, 09:23 AM
Kawaga- look for us this weekend, i will have my 40th xstar and bf200 up there.

Rockman
07-02-2009, 09:46 AM
...and priced it high enough, but that would never happen.

I don't think that would be an issue.:mad:

Sodar
07-02-2009, 09:57 AM
Everything from Bryan needs supporting documentation for me to take it seriously. Not just that post.:D

Yup.

But remember, wrenching on metal boats and Bayliner will make you omniscient. :rolleyes:

duckguy
07-02-2009, 10:10 AM
Verado is a fine engine, just not in this application.

Mercury 200-225 pro xs optimax

Evinrude 200-225 e-tec ho

Yahmaha 200-225 v-max

This boat would need a high output, lightweight 2-stroke!

kawagaskier
07-02-2009, 10:15 AM
Kawaga- look for us this weekend, i will have my 40th xstar and bf200 up there.

Will do! I shouldn't be able to miss the 40th! I plan on being out there the entire weekend (thru Tuesday evening) I expect I'll be the only gray on gray S & S on the water.

woftam
07-02-2009, 10:22 AM
I think they've done that repeatedly with their lineup, especially over the last several years - the CSX and the 300 were bold departures, as well as the new model changes that have been coming fast and furious. No doubt that lineup has changed in large part due to market research. One can only conclude that the reason they have abandoned the specialty barefoot boat concept and not reinstituted it in the last 10 years is that their market research has indicated that the market is simply too small to be worthwhile.

I see an outboard towboat as possibly being more versatile than an inboard.
Modernizing a BF200 platform (and adding tracking fins) could easily yield a boat that is excellent for BF, slalom, jumping, and tricks. Iím generally against using water ballast, but utilizing it, along with the ability to trim the engine to change the shape/size of the wake, also would make it a reasonable wakeboard boat. Design the boat/transom so that it has the capacity/ability to mount multiple outboards, and it might also be a popular choice for show ski team boats?
It may boil down to the economics of sourcing inboard vs. outboard engines?
Aside from the cost of sourcing engines, the utility of a large transom platform on an inboard powered towboat is preferable to two smaller ones flanking an outboard.

kawagaskier
07-02-2009, 10:27 AM
I see an outboard towboat as possibly being more versatile than an inboard.
Modernizing a BF200 platform (and adding tracking fins) could easily yield a boat that is excellent for BF, slalom, jumping, and tricks. Iím generally against using water ballast, but utilizing it, along with the ability to trim the engine to change the shape/size of the wake, also would make it a reasonable wakeboard boat. Design the boat/transom so that it has the capacity/ability to mount multiple outboards, and it might also be a popular choice for show ski team boats?
It may boil down to the economics of sourcing inboard vs. outboard engines?
Aside from the cost of sourcing engines, the utility of a large transom platform on an inboard powered towboat is preferable to two smaller ones flanking an outboard.

Not to mention simplicity to drive for someone unfamiliar with manuvering an inboard.

Sodar
07-02-2009, 10:50 AM
Verado is a fine engine, just not in this application.

Mercury 200-225 pro xs optimax

Evinrude 200-225 e-tec ho

Yahmaha 200-225 v-max

This boat would need a high output, lightweight 2-stroke!

Without question. I just used the Verado because the black and grey cowling matched the boat.


What was the max HP of a BF200?

cbryan70
07-02-2009, 10:54 AM
Sorry. Such a statement will require supporting documentation before it can be taken seriously. I, for one, simply reject it as blatantly false. Yamaha outboards sell like crazy up here in the Land of 10,000 Lakes, and E10 is all that's been available for about a decade.
Yamaha school. Any sort of storage of the fuel will degrade the octain of the gas. It degrades faster with the E-10 in it. Just look up yamaha 2 stroke problems on the internet I am sure you will find somthing. Yamaha spent about 2 hours talking about gas and additives to use to help insure this problem will not happen.

bigmac
07-02-2009, 11:13 AM
Yamaha school. Any sort of storage of the fuel will degrade the octain of the gas. It degrades faster with the E-10 in it. Just look up yamaha 2 stroke problems on the internet I am sure you will find somthing. Yamaha spent about 2 hours talking about gas and additives to use to help insure this problem will not happen.


What a joke. Yamaha outboards are probably used around the world more than any other mfgr, including third-world countries where fuel quality isn't even remotely close to the MINIMUM quality level found in the US.

Anyway, my son went to Yamaha school (MMI) - certified Bronze level tech in motorcycles, watercraft, snowmobiles, and power equipment. I just this minute asked him about Yami two stroke susceptibility to E10 - he calls "BS". I concur.

I'm familiar with the chemistry of E10. Ethanol doesn't degrade the octane any faster than it would usually degrade without the alcohol, and we're talking a minimum of 3 months before there's any kind of significant oxidation. Furthermore, there ARE no additives that will prevent the so-called "problems" with E10 in modern engine systems, those being solely related to ethanol's affinity for water.

You've been sold a bill of goods, I'm afraid. If what you've said were even remotely true, Yamaha, one of the premier engine manufacturers in the WORLD, would have totally failed in its role.

duckguy
07-02-2009, 11:19 AM
200 was the max hp

Aaronhebert88
07-02-2009, 12:52 PM
Verados get my pants to move. :cool:

However, the newer 350 Yami's will get them to move too, just a little to heavy for a 20' boat!

This would look good on the back!!

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q129/aaronhebert88/P5310025.jpg

After we cratered the lower unit

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q129/aaronhebert88/P6230183.jpg

Sodar
07-02-2009, 12:58 PM
This would look good on the back!!

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q129/aaronhebert88/P5310025.jpg

After we cratered the lower unit

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q129/aaronhebert88/P6230183.jpg

What hull are those on?

How did you bust the lower? Hit something?

Sodar
07-02-2009, 01:02 PM
Not as impressive...

flipper
07-02-2009, 01:08 PM
Where is the one you had with like 6 or 8 outboards on it?

Rockman
07-02-2009, 01:10 PM
Without question. I just used the Verado because the black and grey cowling matched the boat.


What was the max HP of a BF200?

225HP is the max on our '95.

Sodar
07-02-2009, 01:14 PM
Where is the one you had with like 6 or 8 outboards on it?

. .

48925

flipper
07-02-2009, 01:22 PM
. .

48925

Dang!!! There was another one though, looked like some kind of tug or something in the water. or is that the same boat on a trailer?

Sodar
07-02-2009, 01:24 PM
Dang!!! There was another one though, looked like some kind of tug or something in the water. or is that the same boat on a trailer?

OOOOHH YEAAHHH... completely forgot.

flipper
07-02-2009, 01:25 PM
THAT'S the one!!! That thing is a bad mofo

cmw
07-02-2009, 01:26 PM
What kind of gas mileage are we talking?

flipper
07-02-2009, 01:28 PM
What kind of gas mileage are we talking?

I think this one will be in the gallons to the mile rather than MPG

Sodar
07-02-2009, 01:29 PM
What kind of gas mileage are we talking?

It is measured in gallons per mile... not miles per gallon! :D

Seriously though, the OX66's burn between 27.5-30 gallons per hour at 5000rpm, so 30 times 8 = 240 gallons of fuel per hour.

woftam
07-02-2009, 01:30 PM
225HP is the max on our '95.

225HP on my '94 also.

Edit; I'm powered with a 200hp Yamaha.

cmw
07-02-2009, 01:31 PM
Thanks for doing the math. Something to share with my wife next time she cringes when I fill up the boat after a day on the lake.

Aaronhebert88
07-02-2009, 02:17 PM
What hull are those on?

How did you bust the lower? Hit something?

37' Midnight Express. There was a casting flaw on the lower unit. It had spider cracks since the day we got it.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q129/aaronhebert88/l_2791744c7c2f4474901651b7798a75d41.jpg

Sodar
07-02-2009, 02:25 PM
37' Midnight Express. There was a casting flaw on the lower unit. It had spider cracks since the day we got it.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q129/aaronhebert88/l_2791744c7c2f4474901651b7798a75d41.jpg

Nice looking boat. We test drove a 39' back in '03 when we were in Ft. Lauderdale. Back then, Midnight Express was just getting started back up and had a bit of work to do, new ones look sick!

duckguy
07-02-2009, 02:55 PM
Actually another plus, GAS MILEAGE!!!!!!!

Aaronhebert88
07-02-2009, 02:58 PM
I spoke with the guys from midnight last week. It seems that they push the 350 Yamaha's, it's what all the government boat are using. After receiving and driving the boat we prob. should of just done 3. When we bought the boat they said it was more efficient with 4. Not really sure if that's true or not. Although I am impressed with the speed. Loaded with 85 gal of freshwater, and 365 gal of fuel the boat does right at 72. Not bad for a 18,000+ lb boat.

ghind
07-02-2009, 08:22 PM
Don't get to read many threads about outboard barefoot boats, not much is said about them in the states these days.

I have a Matrix Sorrento Profooter which is fairly similar to the Mastercraft photoshop mockup earlier. It is powered by a 225HO E-TEC and will do, well anything. I have so far pulled 13 adult skiers from the deep with a 21" prop. This same prop will pull 100kph (>60mph) GPS proven. My dash is full icommand which is full digital instrumentation. I have Perfect Pass Stargazer 3 event. 12 volt power assisted steering. Tracking fin. Heated seats. Zip on clears. Rear locker will fit 6+ kneeboards. Tower, bow rider. I can take 12 people in it and it produces an awesome crossover wake for wakeboarding. It isn't dedicated wake board boat wakes but not many crossover boats would be better. To motor is mounted on an inbuilt bracket which is on the very back of the platform.

The main problem is expense. Outboards are more expensive by the time you make them easy to drive (eg power steering) etc.

I love my Matrix. I can't see Mastercraft making anything like it as I can't see the volumes being there. But I'd love to see somebody take a recent 197 and convert it themselves.

Australia has always been the home of the outboard ski boat. The Flightcraft came from here as have many others.

I don't think there is much point rebirthing 20 year old hulls, things have come a long way since then.

Kingsley X-1
07-02-2009, 10:24 PM
I spoke with the guys from midnight last week. It seems that they push the 350 Yamaha's, it's what all the government boat are using. After receiving and driving the boat we prob. should of just done 3. When we bought the boat they said it was more efficient with 4. Not really sure if that's true or not. Although I am impressed with the speed. Loaded with 85 gal of freshwater, and 365 gal of fuel the boat does right at 72. Not bad for a 18,000+ lb boat.

...38 Fountain with the same fuel, 65 gals fresh water, full tournament tackle load will run 73 with trip 300 verados not four and a damn good riding boat.

woftam
07-04-2009, 06:47 PM
Don't get to read many threads about outboard barefoot boats, not much is said about them in the states these days.

I have a Matrix Sorrento Profooter which is fairly similar to the Mastercraft photoshop mockup earlier. It is powered by a 225HO E-TEC and will do, well anything. I have so far pulled 13 adult skiers from the deep with a 21" prop. This same prop will pull 100kph (>60mph) GPS proven. My dash is full icommand which is full digital instrumentation. I have Perfect Pass Stargazer 3 event. 12 volt power assisted steering. Tracking fin. Heated seats. Zip on clears. Rear locker will fit 6+ kneeboards. Tower, bow rider. I can take 12 people in it and it produces an awesome crossover wake for wakeboarding. It isn't dedicated wake board boat wakes but not many crossover boats would be better. To motor is mounted on an inbuilt bracket which is on the very back of the platform.

The main problem is expense. Outboards are more expensive by the time you make them easy to drive (eg power steering) etc.

I love my Matrix. I can't see Mastercraft making anything like it as I can't see the volumes being there. But I'd love to see somebody take a recent 197 and convert it themselves.

Australia has always been the home of the outboard ski boat. The Flightcraft came from here as have many others.

I don't think there is much point rebirthing 20 year old hulls, things have come a long way since then.

Similar to what I had in mind. I had never seen a Matrix Sorrento Profooter before. Looks like a nice boat. Thanks for the pic. Do you have more from other angles? Pics on the website were kind of limited.

ghind
07-04-2009, 09:00 PM
Similar to what I had in mind. I had never seen a Matrix Sorrento Profooter before. Looks like a nice boat. Thanks for the pic. Do you have more from other angles? Pics on the website were kind of limited.
I really wish I had good photos of it, must take them some time.

ghind
07-04-2009, 09:05 PM
another pic

cbryan70
07-05-2009, 10:37 AM
Funny you are argueing with me. 5 star certified yamaha dealer......our main mechanic has over 20 years 5 star cert yami, master cert e-tec, master cert merc and mercruiser. You will be tough pressed to find a more knowledgable mech. He has repaired them. The octain drops and cant sustain the compression ratio needed and kaboom. It happens we have repaired them. Mostly happens when fuel is stored over the winter months. Seems funny that yamaha would waste the mechanics time (they are not the ones selling) in regards to the fuel going into the motors. In four strokes the fuel is not as crucial but in the two strokes they have had problems. Could be the reason next year yami will ONLY be FOUR strokes.

bigmac
07-05-2009, 11:03 AM
Funny you are argueing with me. 5 star certified yamaha dealer......our main mechanic has over 20 years 5 star cert yami, master cert e-tec, master cert merc and mercruiser. You will be tough pressed to find a more knowledgable mech. He has repaired them. The octain drops and cant sustain the compression ratio needed and kaboom. It happens we have repaired them. Mostly happens when fuel is stored over the winter months. Seems funny that yamaha would waste the mechanics time (they are not the ones selling) in regards to the fuel going into the motors. In four strokes the fuel is not as crucial but in the two strokes they have had problems. Could be the reason next year yami will ONLY be FOUR strokes.

"Funny" isn't the word. "Sad" is probably more accurate. If you're a dealer, I cringe at what other misinformation you and you're mechanic might be passing on to your customers. I'd be a lot more impressed with your credentials if you hadn't said anything so silly as

yamaha.....there is still 10% E in the gas so no yamis....they blow up with that gas

:rolleyes:

As to your mechanic's credentials...grain of salt. I've been told the most absurd things by professionals in MANY professions, including my own. There is a highly regarded MasterCraft dealer that I know of that recommends fuel additives to help remove water from E10.

You want to tell me that E10 causes Yamaha outboards to explode. You had better remind Yamaha of their stated position on the issue. Certainly you're aware of this bulletin:

SUBJECTS: 1. Yamaha Outboards and Ethanol Fuel Blends – All
Models
©2006 YAMAHA MOTOR CORPORATION, USA
OUTBOARD 6/05/2006 O2006-009
Yamaha Outboards and Ethanol Fuel Blends – All Models

As of spring 2006, most gasoline refiners will switch to ethanol-blended fuels. This may present a challenge for boat builders, dealers, and boaters in the months ahead. Until recently, refiners have primarily used the chemical MTBE (Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether) as an additive “to oxygenate” fuel, thereby, reducing emissions. Unfortunately, the chemical has been associated with ground water pollution. As a result, most refineries have chosen to remove it from their blends. Using ethanol in place of MTBE solves the ground water issue, since ethanol has a very short life in the environment before it is broken down chemically by nature.

Properties

Both consumers and those in the boating industry should be aware of the following characteristics of ethanol, even when blended in ratios of as little as 10 percent:

1. Ethanol attracts and absorbs moisture from the air. That means boaters will likely face more fuel contamination issues from water absorbed through their fuel tank vents.

2. Ethanol can dissolve some solid materials (e.g., varnish or even oxidation in steel and aluminum tanks) commonly found in fuel tanks, thereby contaminating the fuel. Additionally, it can loosen any corrosion or particulate matter in the fuel system.

3. In some cases, ethanol has been known to dissolve components of the fuel system itself (e.g., fiberglass fuel tanks). However, modern fuel hose is made to withstand the effects of ethanol exposure.

4. Ethanol blends can react chemically with MTBE fuel blends, causing additional contamination.

Recommendations:

Fuel blends using as much as 10 percent ethanol are appropriate for use in all of Yamaha’s current outboard models. Yamaha does not recommend the use of fuels with higher concentrations of ethanol (e.g., E85, which contains 85 percent ethanol) or
any other fuel blend that contains more than 10 percent ethanol. In addition, Yamaha recommends boat builder partners and boaters (as applicable) take the following steps to mitigate the potential impact of ethanol in motor fuel:

1. Use fuel system components that are compatible with ethanol blends or replace those in use that are not compatible (e.g., fiberglass fuel tanks).

2. Avoid co-mingling MTBE and ethanol-blended fuels. As a precaution, boaters should be advised to use only one supplier for fuel purchases in the months ahead to ensure constancy during the industry changeover period from MTBE to ethanol blends.

3. Install a Yamaha mini-10™ filter or 10-Micron filter. The 10-Micron filter is designed for use on boats with Yamaha outboards. The smaller mini-10 is designed for smaller boats with engines 115hp and under. Both Yamaha products filter out contaminants
and separate water from fuel. The mini-10 features an aluminum head and is made from coated steel inside and painted steel outside to combat corrosion. The 10-Micron fi lter features either an aluminum or stainless steel head and is also made from coated interior and painted exterior steel. Both meet all U.S. Coast Guard and ABYC (American Boat and
Yacht Council) standards.

4. Consumers should be encouraged to carry spare fi lter cartridges in the event the fi lter element becomes clogged with contaminants while the outboard is in use.

Related Considerations:

All Yamaha products, rigging, accessories and parts, including Yamalube lubricants and fuel stabilizers are compatible with fuelblends using up to 10 percent ethanol.

As to Yamaha's switch to 4-stroke...again you're off the mark. That has almost everything to do with EPA emissions and virtually nothing to do with ethanol. It's been a trend for years, starting at least with snowmobiles.

cbryan70
07-05-2009, 11:31 AM
EPA? E-tec's and optimax's are staying. No point to argue the fact, we have had numerous yami motors come through the shop and needed head replacment due to old fuel. I would hope yamaha says their motors can use E-10 considering that is all that is out there these days. Obviously you will take your sons word for it. I will stick to what my mechanic as well as yamaha school has said and preached. He just got our of his last class at yami this past winter to receive the 5-star rating, so its not old news....just sayin

Not exactly sure why yamaha school would be preaching this if it was misinformation. Feel free to call yamaha and ask them if the recommend fuel additives for their motors......I am willing to bet they will recommend stabil (the marine blend).

It makes logical sense that they are having these problems. In the midwest boats sit for months octain levels will drop and motors can have problems. In yamis it is more prevelant.

"Funny" isn't the word. "Sad" is probably more accurate. If you're a dealer, I cringe at what other misinformation you and you're mechanic might be passing on to your customers. I'd be a lot more impressed with your credentials if you hadn't said anything so silly as



:rolleyes:

As to your mechanic's credentials...grain of salt. I've been told the most absurd things by professionals in MANY professions, including my own. There is a highly regarded MasterCraft dealer that I know of that recommends fuel additives to help remove water from E10.

You want to tell me that E10 causes Yamaha outboards to explode. You had better remind Yamaha of their stated position on the issue. Certainly you're aware of this bulletin:



As to Yamaha's switch to 4-stroke...again you're off the mark. That has almost everything to do with EPA emissions and virtually nothing to do with ethanol. It's been a trend for years, starting at least with snowmobiles.

bigmac
07-05-2009, 12:35 PM
EPA? E-tec's and optimax's are staying. No point to argue the fact, we have had numerous yami motors come through the shop and needed head replacment due to old fuel. I would hope yamaha says their motors can use E-10 considering that is all that is out there these days. Obviously you will take your sons word for it. I will stick to what my mechanic as well as yamaha school has said and preached. He just got our of his last class at yami this past winter to receive the 5-star rating, so its not old news....just sayin

Not exactly sure why yamaha school would be preaching this if it was misinformation. Feel free to call yamaha and ask them if the recommend fuel additives for their motors......I am willing to bet they will recommend stabil (the marine blend).

It makes logical sense that they are having these problems. In the midwest boats sit for months octain levels will drop and motors can have problems. In yamis it is more prevelant.

Yes, it is about meeting EPA requirements. Optimax and E-tec are (successful) routes chosen by those two mfgrs (Mercury and Bombardier) in achieving that end. Yamaha chose a different route toward meeting those EPA regs and has gone/is going 4-stroke. Nothing to do with ethanol - all about their respective decisions as to how to clean up their engines. It's worked very well for them in their snowmobiles, no reason to choose a different technology for their outboard engine evolution.

No problem with fuel stabilizers - they'll help retard oxidation and associated octane loss in fuel that's been sitting. 3 months is about the point where that becomes a problem. Sta-Bil and SeaFoam (as examples) are fine, maybe even a good idea, in boats that may sit idle over the off-season. The "Marine Blend" version of Sta-Bil just contains more detergent, the concept being that it works against the solvent action of ethanol that might scrub dirt or other contaminants from the tank and lines and clog filters injectors or whatever. Not a problem is the tank is clean. Might be a problem if the vehicle is old and has only had gasoline in the system. Nothing to do with engines blowing up, just filter and injector clogging. There is no fuel additive on the market that will retard the oft-touted (and grossly overblown) bugaboo about E10 - phase separation. Phase separation is actually a potentially bigger problem is gasoline - it will hold much less water in suspension than E10.

Octane loss? Ethanol (ethyl alcohol) has a higher octane rating than gasoline - about 115 and that's accounted for in the blend. Ethanol is more resistant to oxidation than gasoline, so THAT doesn't contribute to any octane loss in E10.

woftam
07-05-2009, 09:20 PM
another pic
Thanks for the pics ghind !!!

woftam
07-06-2009, 02:02 PM
Don't get to read many threads about outboard barefoot boats, not much is said about them in the states these days.

I have a Matrix Sorrento Profooter which is fairly similar to the Mastercraft photoshop mockup earlier. It is powered by a 225HO E-TEC and will do, well anything. I have so far pulled 13 adult skiers from the deep with a 21" prop. This same prop will pull 100kph (>60mph) GPS proven. My dash is full icommand which is full digital instrumentation. I have Perfect Pass Stargazer 3 event. 12 volt power assisted steering. Tracking fin. Heated seats. Zip on clears. Rear locker will fit 6+ kneeboards. Tower, bow rider. I can take 12 people in it and it produces an awesome crossover wake for wakeboarding. It isn't dedicated wake board boat wakes but not many crossover boats would be better. To motor is mounted on an inbuilt bracket which is on the very back of the platform.

The main problem is expense. Outboards are more expensive by the time you make them easy to drive (eg power steering) etc.


I love my Matrix. I can't see Mastercraft making anything like it as I can't see the volumes being there. But I'd love to see somebody take a recent 197 and convert it themselves.

Australia has always been the home of the outboard ski boat. The Flightcraft came from here as have many others.

I don't think there is much point rebirthing 20 year old hulls, things have come a long way since then.

How much (in terms of $) does the electric power assist steering add? Hydraulic steering isn't very expensive and seems more than up to the job.

ghind
07-08-2009, 09:52 PM
The power assisted steering is not cheap. Seastar make an addon unit which I hear is great. I purchased my system before sea star made theirs. It comes from Hydrive in Australia. It is the exact same system that is used on those 8 engine 250hp (per engine) RIB drug runner boats. In those boats, they have a second ram (4 engines per ram) and some more hoses but the pump and everything else is exactly the same.

I'd never go back. It cost me AUD$3500 complete which is about AUD$1500-2000 more than without power but that was back in 2003 when there was no competitive system and our dollar was weak making imported parts expensive.

Instead of 5 turns lock to lock I get 3. My system is so strong I can put it on the most direct steering hole on the motor. If I'm doing 40mph and I see a stick 20ft in front of me, I can swerve around it and be back on track in an instant. It is amazing, light and direct. It never gets heavy and is great for parking.

My boat is a bit extreme. It has the best of everything and most couldn't justify it but I love it and once you've driven it.....

woftam
07-08-2009, 09:57 PM
The power assisted steering is not cheap. Seastar make an addon unit which I hear is great. I purchased my system before sea star made theirs. It comes from Hydrive in Australia. It is the exact same system that is used on those 8 engine 250hp (per engine) RIB drug runner boats. In those boats, they have a second ram (4 engines per ram) and some more hoses but the pump and everything else is exactly the same.

I'd never go back. It cost me AUD$3500 complete which is about AUD$1500-2000 more than without power but that was back in 2003 when there was no competitive system and our dollar was weak making imported parts expensive.

Instead of 5 turns lock to lock I get 3. My system is so strong I can put it on the most direct steering hole on the motor. If I'm doing 40mph and I see a stick 20ft in front of me, I can swerve around it and be back on track in an instant. It is amazing, light and direct. It never gets heavy and is great for parking.

My boat is a bit extreme. It has the best of everything and most couldn't justify it but I love it and once you've driven it.....

It looks like a very nice boat. Thank you for all the info.

Finnsdad
08-20-2009, 11:43 PM
Dyna-Ski is still making outboard ski boats

MariStar-Man
08-21-2009, 11:30 AM
Forget the Barefoot Boat...Tell them to amke a BareBottom boat...yummm:rolleyes::D

ProStar200
08-27-2009, 06:43 PM
I would take that boat Cameron. But mine would be a Johnson outboard. Like the one I have on my ProStar200.

ProStar200
08-27-2009, 06:45 PM
I agree Duckguy but a white e-tec for me.