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jnbluther
06-08-2009, 11:40 AM
We own a 1977 MasterCraft Stars and Stripes Ski Boat / 351 Ford Windsor.

It has a Borg Warner transmission:

Model: 10.17.001 / Velvet Drive

The transmission stopped working / shifting . We checked:

Fluids
Linkage

Given this model / name can you tell us what current model / parts numbers match this transmission?

We have performed some internet seaches, and found similar numbers but nothing exact.

http://www.skidim.com/products.asp?dept=1101

Recommendations: rebuild or replace?
We have two weeks before a week at an Arkansas Lake.

dmminfla
06-08-2009, 11:46 AM
When you say "stopped working" do you mean no forward and no reverse? Does the boat stay in neutral?

jnbluther
06-08-2009, 12:28 PM
No Forward / No Reverse

Boat was running and shifting fine. Slowed to make a forward turn, accelerated out of turn and nothing. The boat stays in neutral.

My son reports that he may have noticed some slippling in previous weeks.

Is the transmission a 71C?

jnbluther
06-08-2009, 01:16 PM
Palmer Power in Houston Texas is listed with Velvet Drive (Borg Warner) as a local distributor.

According to Palmer Power, the transmission is a 71C / Part Number 1017-000-04
Original BW Model 10.17.001

New 71C / www.skidim.com $1,449.00

Palmer Power / Complete Turnkey Rebuild $850.00

jnbluther
06-08-2009, 05:15 PM
We took the transmission off, and found that the splined collar that fits around the transmission shaft had sheared off. See pic.

Is "flex plate" the rigtht term for the part?

dmminfla
06-08-2009, 05:29 PM
That's why I asked if the tranny worked at all, I trashed my damper plate a few moths back on my 86 351. It sounded like there were marbles in the bell housing. Here is a link for the pkate I bought. This one will use only 3 bolts.

http://bpi.ebasicpower.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ALTDA-106A&Store_Code=eBasicPower&search=damper&offset=0&filter_cat=&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high=%20%26srch_code%3D1%26srch_name%3D1%26s rch_mfg%3D1

Dan K
06-08-2009, 06:19 PM
That should be an easy fix now that it's apart. and cheaper than a rebuild for sure

jnbluther
06-08-2009, 09:35 PM
We bought a similar plate at a higher price from [url]www.marineexhaustmanifolds.com

In viewing the pics, the offereing seemed to us to be better built, with enclosed springs.

jnbluther
06-08-2009, 09:38 PM
dimminfla,

When yours went down, and you removed the tranny, did the transmission spin freely? Our does, and my son was concerned that some of the internals were damaged. I am not sure this is true as the tranny is not a standard, but seems to be a type of automatic transmassion, perhaps a hydrostatic.

Whitfield
06-08-2009, 10:19 PM
From the PCM Marine service manual p259...

The transmisson oil pump is driven by the input shaft. It supplies oil pressure to operate the clutch packs, lubricate parts, and provide cooling.

A damper plate is bolted to the engine flywheel. The damper plate is splined to to the input shaft. The damper plate reduces torsional vibraton to the transmission from the engine.

Forward. The forward clutch is applied hydraulically when the shift leaver is placed in the forward position. This connects the input shaft to the output shaft. The unit then transmits power at a 1:1 speed ratio in the same direction of rotation as the engine.

Whitfield
06-08-2009, 10:24 PM
I have spent the last 2 days reading all the info I have on these transmissions.

This is a quick cliff notes summary of the information I have gathered, I'm new so please correct me if i'm wrong.

Forward applies forward clutch pressure to directly drive the output shaft.

Reverse applies reverse clutch pressure to hold the ring gear and drive the sun planetary assembly moving the shatf in revers.

Netural relieves line / pump pressure and releases the clutch pack to a neutral state.

Selecting forward or reverse with the engine off will not provide pressure to apply the clutches.



I am told by my local boat yard mechanic that most of todays automotive automatic transmission rebuilders consider these transmissions ver very basic and super simple to rebuild.

Bellinghamster
06-09-2009, 11:09 AM
You've got it right - they won't "connect" if the engine isn't rotating to make oil pressure in the transmission to engage one clutch or the other *Fwd or rev).

When you re-install, it's very important to make sure that the shift lever reaches full detent position in both forward and reverse, else full hydraulic pressure may not be applied to the clutch, causing slipping and premature clutch plate wearout. If they're shifting correctly, the clutch plates should outlast your boat, your engine and probably you yourself. (Also, make sure that when in neutral the shift lever is in the center detent so the clutches don't drag when they're supposed to be not engaged.)

Glad to hear it's a quick and not-too-expensive fix!

I've got a service manual (PDF) for BW 71C's. Let me know if you're interested in REALLY digging into how they work!

Whitfield
06-09-2009, 11:30 AM
I've got a service manual (PDF) for BW 71C's. Let me know if you're interested in REALLY digging into how they work!

I am very interested in "REALLY digging into how they work!" and would much rather have non paper media.

Can I get a copy? Whitfimb at hotmail

dmminfla
06-09-2009, 01:23 PM
Here is the velvet drive manual

http://www.marinepartsexpress.com/bw_sch_fs.html

Bellinghamster
06-10-2009, 12:57 AM
Whitfield, the BW 71C service manual and installation manual are on their way in two seperate emails. The service manual is 6.5mb, so let me know if your inbox chokes... I can put it on an FTP site or something.

Whitfield
06-10-2009, 11:59 PM
Pulled my engine and trans. Trans checks out ok, so just a facelift for now.

Someone had painted my engine and trans (in the boat) with a rattle can and done a very poor job, wrong color (I think it was originally PCM Silver) now it is a dark flat grey. They used very little / lots of over spray and did poor prep work. Now it was peeling and rusting red, orange, + Chev orange overspray, grey, and PCM silver. Wish I had taken a before pic.

Sandblast / Degrease / Epoxy paint

Gloss black ~ For that late modle look. I'm hoping once everything else is detailed it will look ok.


http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/whitfimb/Dixie%20Super%20Skier%20299/P6100719.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/whitfimb/Dixie%20Super%20Skier%20299/P6100713.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/whitfimb/Dixie%20Super%20Skier%20299/P6100722.jpg

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/whitfimb/Dixie%20Super%20Skier%20299/P6100721.jpg

454Prostar190
06-11-2009, 02:30 PM
Anyone:
Is this the part (damper plate) that makes the "rattling sound" at low rpms that I have read is typical of an older S and S transmission? It was someone elses thread and from that thread, I learned that my S and S wasn't the only one that had a rattle at low/idling speeds.

CameronCarey
06-11-2009, 02:42 PM
Interesting that i have the same tranny, same mounts, but Escort didn't use that sporty aluminum bell housing that PCM offered .....on my boat. And Great work on the paint job. The only nitpick was that you blasted the left to right adjustment on the tranny mounts, not sure if that keeps it from being adjustable............none of which matters if it all still lines up when you bolt it back in!

Great to see another one on its way back to the water!

dmminfla
06-17-2009, 06:21 PM
454prostar190

The rattle sound on mine was from the springs in the damper plate starting to break. At low speed you can hear them but as you increase the centrifugal force pushes them to the outside and you won’t hear them. Soon you will nail the throttle and they will all give out and you will be stuck