View Full Version : 1993 Anniversary Fuel Pump Issues
tdadvertising
06-05-2009, 05:24 PM
Guys, I need some info to help with my 25th anniversary ProStar 190. It's been through several fuel pumps in 4 seasons and nobody can tell me why. I've spent thousands. It recently came to my attention that a dealer may have fabricated a bracket for the fuel pump and made it backwards, pinching the return line on the bottom of the pump at a 90 degree angle against the floor. I would like to know if anyone has insight into fuel starvation issues with these boats (fuel injected Corvette LT1), and just as importantly if anyone can describe to me what the factory installed setup is for that fuel pump including how it is mounted. This is the silver metal flake anniversary boat from 1993 that supposedly only 25 were produced.
Jim@BAWS
06-05-2009, 05:54 PM
Guys, I need some info to help with my 25th anniversary ProStar 190. It's been through several fuel pumps in 4 seasons and nobody can tell me why. I've spent thousands. It recently came to my attention that a dealer may have fabricated a bracket for the fuel pump and made it backwards, pinching the return line on the bottom of the pump at a 90 degree angle against the floor. I would like to know if anyone has insight into fuel starvation issues with these boats (fuel injected Corvette LT1), and just as importantly if anyone can describe to me what the factory installed setup is for that fuel pump including how it is mounted. This is the silver metal flake anniversary boat from 1993 that supposedly only 25 were produced.
Photos please ASAP PHOTOS PLEASE ASAP PHOTOS PLEASE ASAP PLEASE
Jim@BAWS
tdadvertising
06-05-2009, 06:20 PM
Not quite sure how to post a photo. Why, you wanna buy it? It's a beautiful boat except for that little part about eating a fuel pump every season.
Sodar
06-05-2009, 06:27 PM
Not quite sure how to post a photo. Why, you wanna buy it? It's a beautiful boat except for that little part about eating a fuel pump every season.
Don't worry about Jim. He gets a little overly excited about "unique" boats.
In the mean time, try posting a pic of your fuel pump set up.
Just click on "Post Reply" in the left corner.
Then scroll down a bit and click on "Manage Attachments".
Click on "Chose File"
Find your file and add it.
And lastly, press "Upload"
The picture will automatically post when you Submit your reply.
tdadvertising
06-05-2009, 07:09 PM
Okay, here goes. I removed the old bracket (see pic). This bracket was bolted to the engine block and had a pinch clamp to hold the fuel pump. It was mounted low enough that the return line was bent 90 degress up against the floor and thus pinched. I made a new bracket (see pic with arrow) and mounted it in the same location, moving the pump up an inch so the return line (see pic of return line with red stripe) now sits freely without being pinched. As you can see just by how close to the edge the top hole is, was drilled by somebody other than Mastercraft. The bend appears completely unnecessary unless it's mounted opposite of how they had it. I contend that the guy lost the original hardware during a repair and fabbed his own plate. Also, the ground wire setup was atrocious. I don't seem to have starvation problems (YET this season) after moving the pump, but I'm still struggling with ground fault on the fuel pump, trying to establish a solid connection that won't move. Thoughts?
I would like to know if anyone has insight into fuel starvation issues with these boats (fuel injected Corvette LT1),
That pump looks the same as tbi pumps, and they have a hidden screen on the inlet side (deep in the pump). Are you sure this plugged screen wasn't he cause of your 4 previous 'failures'?
If this screen is the cause of your fuel starvation problem, it can be cleaned and the pump is still good.
tdadvertising
06-07-2009, 02:23 PM
That's quite possible. Nobody has ever told me there is a screen in that pump. Also, there was never an inline filter between the fuel tank and the pump, so this year we went that route. My thing is this; since I relocated the pump and stopped pinching that return line, no more fuel starvation problems. So I think the answer is that may have been the problem four pumps ago, but the only way to tell if it had been the problem would have been for somebody to check the screen. Wouldn't you think a Mastercraft dealer should know this?
Guys, I need some info to help with my 25th anniversary ProStar 190. It's been through several fuel pumps in 4 seasons and nobody can tell me why. I've spent thousands. It recently came to my attention that a dealer may have fabricated a bracket for the fuel pump and made it backwards, pinching the return line on the bottom of the pump at a 90 degree angle against the floor. I would like to know if anyone has insight into fuel starvation issues with these boats (fuel injected Corvette LT1), and just as importantly if anyone can describe to me what the factory installed setup is for that fuel pump including how it is mounted. This is the silver metal flake anniversary boat from 1993 that supposedly only 25 were produced.
Look at the fittings at the top of the fuel tank. There's a valve (fuel shutoff), an anti-siphon (in case the line is cut and inside, it has a fuel pickup tube that dips into the tank. All three are suspects in this, as well as the fuel line itself. Also, make sure the vent line and actual vent are clear and free of anything. Make sure the fuel line isn't being pinched or de-laminating. Remove the tank (how low you want to let it go is up to you but these shouldn't be as problematic as the in-tank pumps have been), remove the top plate after sliding it out and look inside. If you see anything other than clear, fresh gas, get it out of there. Blow low pressure compressed air back through the pickup tube to find out if it's clogged, especially if it has the screen at the bottom.
That's quite possible. Nobody has ever told me there is a screen in that pump. Also, there was never an inline filter between the fuel tank and the pump, so this year we went that route. My thing is this; since I relocated the pump and stopped pinching that return line, no more fuel starvation problems. So I think the answer is that may have been the problem four pumps ago, but the only way to tell if it had been the problem would have been for somebody to check the screen. Wouldn't you think a Mastercraft dealer should know this?
What do you mean, no filter? They had at least one and some had two. Yours is old enough that it may have originally had a fuel/water separator but you know how creative previous boat owners can be when they don't want to spend money on replacement parts.
Should a MC dealer know? Depends on when they started carrying them. If they never dealt with the pump you have, maybe not. I'm pretty sure they teach only about the new pumps and systems, but I haven't been to MC training since '00.
OTOH, we have discussed these pumps and fuel issues in general for a long time. Who is/was your dealer?
Does yours have the keypad to start it, on the dash?
tdadvertising
06-08-2009, 11:49 AM
What do you mean, no filter? They had at least one and some had two. Yours is old enough that it may have originally had a fuel/water separator but you know how creative previous boat owners can be when they don't want to spend money on replacement parts.
Should a MC dealer know? Depends on when they started carrying them. If they never dealt with the pump you have, maybe not. I'm pretty sure they teach only about the new pumps and systems, but I haven't been to MC training since '00.
OTOH, we have discussed these pumps and fuel issues in general for a long time. Who is/was your dealer?
Does yours have the keypad to start it, on the dash?
I'd rather leave the dealer name out because he screwed me big-time, just threw parts at the problem for 13 weeks. I've done everything you mentioned above, but bottom line seems to be, moving the fuel pump so it doesn't choke the return line seems to have worked. It definitely didn't have the in-line filter, instead it had one after the fuel pump. It was owned by a promo driver and he was quite meticulous, so I doubt he skimped on parts. It does have the keyless ignition. What I need is a diagram of how that system was set up at the factory. I want to see if the factory setup was changed, or if Mastercraft actually designed it that way.
I'd rather leave the dealer name out because he screwed me big-time, just threw parts at the problem for 13 weeks. I've done everything you mentioned above, but bottom line seems to be, moving the fuel pump so it doesn't choke the return line seems to have worked. It definitely didn't have the in-line filter, instead it had one after the fuel pump. It was owned by a promo driver and he was quite meticulous, so I doubt he skimped on parts. It does have the keyless ignition. What I need is a diagram of how that system was set up at the factory. I want to see if the factory setup was changed, or if Mastercraft actually designed it that way.
If he screwed you and is a MC dealer, MC needs to hear about it, if you haven't contacted them already.
If the filter is after the pump, it'll catch most of what would be a problem. IIRC, it's an AC GF626 filter. It sounds like that dealer is just into "trying" to fix things that are easy, not sending the tech(s) to training and doing it right.
tdadvertising
06-09-2009, 05:43 PM
Well, to give you an idea, he had the boat for 13 weeks in the dead of summer. He installed plugs, fuel filter, crank position sensors, Ignition Control Module & wiring harness, ignition control coil packs, engine control module, fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump and standard rubber fuel line for supply lines, which I understand isn't even legal. When one part didn't solve the problem, he never took it off and tried something else, he just left it on. I never saw the dead parts and endedup with a $2,746 bill on a boat that had 600 hours and had spend its entire life on private water.
That's why I really want to see a picture of how that fuel pump was mounted at the factory, because I'm now about 90% sure it was improperly mounted and squished that return line, causing the problem all along. Is there any way I can find out how it was mounted by Mastercraft?
Well, to give you an idea, he had the boat for 13 weeks in the dead of summer. He installed plugs, fuel filter, crank position sensors, Ignition Control Module & wiring harness, ignition control coil packs, engine control module, fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump and standard rubber fuel line for supply lines, which I understand isn't even legal. When one part didn't solve the problem, he never took it off and tried something else, he just left it on. I never saw the dead parts and endedup with a $2,746 bill on a boat that had 600 hours and had spend its entire life on private water.
That's why I really want to see a picture of how that fuel pump was mounted at the factory, because I'm now about 90% sure it was improperly mounted and squished that return line, causing the problem all along. Is there any way I can find out how it was mounted by Mastercraft?
You didn't tell him "do whatever it takes to get it running", did you?
What they did looks like BBB or Department of Commerce material, IMO. I have never seen that much go wrong at one time, in my life and the chance of all being needed are astronomically slim. He's required to give you the old parts by law, in most states. I'd be having a "little chat" with him.
Because of how this looks to a former MC tech (me), collect all of your paperwork, document any phone calls and e-mails and think about going after him.
If you open the motor box and release the gas shocks, open it fully so you can squat next to the motor on the passenger side, behind the distributor. Look down and you will see where the pump is mounted. If you see bare metal, the bracket was moved. It's possible that they rotated the pump slightly when it was being tightened but didn't lower it.
It really looks like they had no clue as to what they were dealing with and never bothered to A) send a tech to training, B) think about getting a manual and C) if they sent a tech, they never asked him to teach anyone else. MC needs to know who this dealer is, with gravy.
tdadvertising
06-09-2009, 09:50 PM
Okay, I guess I'll talk to Mastercraft next. Yes, given that it was simply an issue where the boat would go down the lake 40mph but starve under load, throwing all those parts at it was quite wrong.
On another subject since you were a tech, I have a speedometer leaking badly in the back of the boat. Where the hose from the pitot coneects to that brass cylinder mounted just in front of the gas tank, it appears that fitting should thread, but there are no threads on the cylinder. Am I missing a piece? The one on the other side is okay, and the fitting on the bottom is okay, it's just that one.
Okay, I guess I'll talk to Mastercraft next. Yes, given that it was simply an issue where the boat would go down the lake 40mph but starve under load, throwing all those parts at it was quite wrong.
On another subject since you were a tech, I have a speedometer leaking badly in the back of the boat. Where the hose from the pitot coneects to that brass cylinder mounted just in front of the gas tank, it appears that fitting should thread, but there are no threads on the cylinder. Am I missing a piece? The one on the other side is okay, and the fitting on the bottom is okay, it's just that one.
It's usually a small barb fitting, with a small wire tie to hold the hose on. If yours has a smooth stub, you can solder a bead around the end. The only purpose is to keep the hose from coming off but it will work. I would also trim about 1" of the hose off- it can become stretched over time. Use a tie wrap to hold it on. If you want to replace the smooth stub with a ribbed barb fitting, ACE hardware and NAPA usually have things like that. It will need to be soldered on but it'll be very strong if done correctly.
Okay, I guess I'll talk to Mastercraft next. Yes, given that it was simply an issue where the boat would go down the lake 40mph but starve under load, throwing all those parts at it was quite wrong.
On another subject since you were a tech, I have a speedometer leaking badly in the back of the boat. Where the hose from the pitot coneects to that brass cylinder mounted just in front of the gas tank, it appears that fitting should thread, but there are no threads on the cylinder. Am I missing a piece? The one on the other side is okay, and the fitting on the bottom is okay, it's just that one.
If it ran at all and especially if it went 40 MHP, the crank sensors, ECM, IC module, coil packs and harness were fine. That's about $2000 worth of parts that were used, but not needed. That place doesn't have a clue about how to diagnose fuel problems and that's what you had- a fuel problem. Even after all of that, it still wasn't fixed, since you were the one who corrected it by removing the crimp in the fuel line.
If the Coast Guard sees that rubber fuel line after the pump, you'll probably be fined. Using rubber line from the tank to the pump is fine because it's not high pressure.
tdadvertising
06-11-2009, 05:52 PM
Yeah, he really hammered me. I replaced those fuel lines as soon as the dealer I work with now confirmed that they were the wrong ones. The nice thing is, I have the bill from the guy who put them on & it specifies what he put on. I can probably reach a settlement based on that alone.
So just to be clear, you're absolutely certain that if the boat ran like a charm when it wasn't under load that those parts were completely unnecessary? The burden of proof is going to be on me, so I'm going to have to find a tech guy willing to put something like that in writing.
Yeah, he really hammered me. I replaced those fuel lines as soon as the dealer I work with now confirmed that they were the wrong ones. The nice thing is, I have the bill from the guy who put them on & it specifies what he put on. I can probably reach a settlement based on that alone.
So just to be clear, you're absolutely certain that if the boat ran like a charm when it wasn't under load that those parts were completely unnecessary? The burden of proof is going to be on me, so I'm going to have to find a tech guy willing to put something like that in writing.
IMO, if it ran at all, those parts weren't necessary. If the IC module is bad, it usually won't run well, if at all. If the plugs are bad, it may be rough but even if one is bad, you'd probably never notice. When I was at MC training the first time, we had a few motors on stands with casters, able to run. When we were checking out the LT-1, since Alan told us that losing a couple of plugs or injectors isn't very noticeable, we just had to see for ourselves. We removed the injector plugs, starting at the front of the motor and on the stand, it didn't run rough at idle until we only had three injectors connected. If the crank sensors were bad, it probably would kill when it was running or wouldn't start at all. Their purpose is to tell the ECM where the crank is (obviously), and which direction it's turning, for obvious reasons. They usually won't make it run bad under load. That's typically what happens when the fuel supply is reduced. Coil packs will generally work, or not. They're seldom intermittent although it does happen, I suppose.
The shotgun method can be very profitable, but never efficient or accurate. Knowing how these work is a big step in knowing how to diagnose problems and also, IMO, they don't. Get the old parts from them. If they refuse, threatening a lawsuit will probably make them pay attention. While you're at it, talk to the state Department of Commerce and find out what their obligations are, as well as your rights as a consumer. Typically, the shop is required to return anyh bad parts they replace. If they don't, it looks like they may be selling used parts as replacements and gouging you and the next customer, AKA victim. I would also ask what tools and diagnostic equipment they used in determining which parts were bad, as well as how they got it to run with a bad ECM. That tells the IC module to cause spark and with either being bad, it really shouldn't run at all. If they return the ECM, it can be sent to Indmar for testing and that will show either good or bad. If they damaged it intentionally, that may show up, too.
Personally, if the show doesn't have a policy of returning bad parts, they shouldn't be trusted. Period.
tdadvertising
06-18-2009, 01:02 PM
Okay, I'm looking into this then. I think you're right & it's long overdue.
So now I have the boat running, the repositioning of the fuel pump and ground wiring seems to have worked. The speedo leak seems now not to be that fitting at all. I sealed it up and the back right corner of the boat is still getting soaked when we ski, it seems to be coming from someplace either under or behind the fuel tank. The packing gland isn't leaking; it's definitely coming in someplace in that corner. Dry rotted speedometer line? Possibly not sealed where the pitot bolts to the hull? I can get my hand back there and that doesn't seem to be it either. Think this weekend I pull the fuel tank & carpet back there and go for a ride and just try to visually see where it's coming from?