Fuel Stabilizers

[jamica joe]

Most of the time I add STA-BIL to my fuel... Recently they have come out with a marine version that is supposed to help with the ethanol issues. While I was at West Marine I ran across Star Tron (by Starbrite), all of their literature makes the product sound great. Any opinions on the products... use or no use... Do they work? Has anyone used the Star Tron?

[bigmac]

Stabilizers to help decrease fuel oxidation can be helpful for gasoline that is being stored for more than about 4 months, but otherwise fuel and gasoline additives are a waste of money, in exactly the same way that oil additives are nothing but sucker-bait.

The increasingly widespread use of 10% ethanol-based fuel has led to an entirely new additive scam and that is additives that that will "cure all of the problems associated with using ethanol in your boat". It takes advantage of people's skepticism and ignorance about this "new" fuel.

Your boat and its engine are designed to accomodate the use of 10% ethanol. It will cause you no problems if it was manufactured after about 1995. Use additives if you want, however. It's your money to waste.

[jmac197]

Page iv of the 2005 Mastercraft Owners Guide

"Fuels that are blended to contain methanol or wood alcohol are not to be used in MasterCraft engines. These fuels can corrode some metal parts in your fuel system and engine. Damage caused by the use of unapproved fuels is not covered by warranty. (Page 6-2)"

I only have one station that stills sells non-ethanol gas and it's way across town. Green sucks!



The increasingly widespread use of 10% ethanol-based fuel has led to an entirely new additive scam and that is additives that that will "cure all of the problems associated with using ethanol in your boat". It takes advantage of people's skepticism and ignorance about this "new" fuel.

Your boat and its engine are designed to accomodate the use of 10% ethanol. It will cause you no problems if it was manufactured after about 1995. Use additives if you want, however. It's your money to waste.

[bigmac]

Page iv of the 2005 Mastercraft Owners Guide

"Fuels that are blended to contain methanol or wood alcohol are not to be used in MasterCraft engines. These fuels can corrode some metal parts in your fuel system and engine. Damage caused by the use of unapproved fuels is not covered by warranty. (Page 6-2)"

I only have one station that stills sells non-ethanol gas and it's way across town. Green sucks!

Who's talking about methanol? The subject is ethanol.

Page 7-10 of the 2005 MasterCraft owner's manual "Ethyl alcohol or grain alcohol is acceptable for use as long as it is a blend and the blended fuel contains no more than 10% ethanol." FYI, ethyl alcohol is just a slightly different name for ethanol. MasterCraft says it's OK to use ethanol in your boat.

Perhaps you're confusing ethanol with methanol (methanol is the same thing a wood alcohol). The two are completely different compounds. I can't even begin to imagine where you'd be able to buy gasoline with methanol in it.

[jmac197]

Bigmac,

Thanks for the education! You learn something new everyday. I definately had the two mixed up.

[CPlane Pilot]

A major issue with blended gasoline which has the ability to absorb water is phase separation. The marine stabil and the startron product act to delay this separation.

[bigmac]

A major issue with blended gasoline which has the ability to absorb water is phase separation. The marine stabil and the startron product act to delay this separation.

It's not a major issue at all. Phase separation will happen with a lot less absorbed water in regular gasoline than it will in 10% ethanol. The ability of gasoline to suspend water is miniscule, whereas alcohol will keep it in suspension and actually act to PREVENT phase separation.

[cbryan70]

Tell this to all the guys with yami 2 strokes that keep igniting their motors becuase they store it for a month without use.......


Stabilizers to help decrease fuel oxidation can be helpful for gasoline that is being stored for more than about 4 months, but otherwise fuel and gasoline additives are a waste of money, in exactly the same way that oil additives are nothing but sucker-bait.

The increasingly widespread use of 10% ethanol-based fuel has led to an entirely new additive scam and that is additives that that will "cure all of the problems associated with using ethanol in your boat". It takes advantage of people's skepticism and ignorance about this "new" fuel.

Your boat and its engine are designed to accomodate the use of 10% ethanol. It will cause you no problems if it was manufactured after about 1995. Use additives if you want, however. It's your money to waste.

[bigmac]

Tell this to all the guys with yami 2 strokes that keep igniting their motors becuase they store it for a month without use.......

I'll tell them if they ask, but I've had two stroke snowmobiles (Yamahas) and dirt bikes using 10% ethanol for decades and I don't even know what you're talking about "igniting their motors".

No offense meant, but I think that's baloney. Doesn't even make sense.

[peason]

I was at our local Mastercraft dealer this past week and MC is now reccomending that you use the marine based Stabil all year round. They had a small sign on the service desk.

[CPlane Pilot]

It's not a major issue at all. Phase separation will happen with a lot less absorbed water in regular gasoline than it will in 10% ethanol. The ability of gasoline to suspend water is miniscule, whereas alcohol will keep it in suspension and actually act to PREVENT phase separation.

Not to start trouble, and please do not take offense; however, your statement is part correct. Ethanol like you said does act like Isopropynol as it bonds or absorbs water. Temperature also comes into play here with higher temps allowing more water to be held. At some point (could be with nothing more than a drop in temp, think daytime heat to nightime) the water will precipitate out, this is phase separation, and you will experience engine difficulties. The marine fuel additives help to prevent this.

[Patrick Hardy]

If you really want to do some reading, goggle some of the debates about this topic on the fishing web sites, particularly the saltwater fishing / boat sites. They are quite informative and long. There are numerous petroleum industry experts and company scientist that go round and round over this topic. Like Bigmac said, if your boat is going to not be used for extended amounts of time, I use them.

[bigmac]

Not to start trouble, and please do not take offense; however, your statement is part correct. Ethanol like you said does act like Isopropynol as it bonds or absorbs water. Temperature also comes into play here with higher temps allowing more water to be held. At some point (could be with nothing more than a drop in temp, think daytime heat to nightime) the water will precipitate out, this is phase separation, and you will experience engine difficulties. The marine fuel additives help to prevent this.No offense taken. I am hoping, however, that you (or anyone) will detail the chemistry. To say "marine fuel additives help to prevent this" sounds like their marketing brochures. So, rather than just stopping with that statement, you'll need to explain HOW they "help to prevent this".

[bigmac]

I was at our local Mastercraft dealer this past week and MC is now reccomending that you use the marine based Stabil all year round. They had a small sign on the service desk.


Marketing.

MasterCraft also recommends that you use Pennzoil oil and oil filters, and they are proponents of the Cash Rewards program.

[Sodar]

I'll tell them if they ask, but I've had two stroke snowmobiles (Yamahas) and dirt bikes using 10% ethanol for decades and I don't even know what you're talking about "igniting their motors".

No offense meant, but I think that's baloney. Doesn't even make sense.

Don't worry about it, Cbryan thinks he is a wrencher, now that he works for a company that has a side business of selling pontoons, bayliners and sparkle boats.

Igniting the motor is something I hope happens every time I turn the key!

I am thinking he is talking about grenading the motors. If that is the case, then yes if fuel sits too long in high performance 2 strokes, the degradation of the octane can cause premature ignition and grenade/ignite the motor. However, to the best of my knowledge, fuel stabilizers do nothing to preserve the octane, they just make sure the fuel does not turn to varnish... am I correct?

[CPlane Pilot]

No offense taken. I am hoping, however, that you (or anyone) will detail the chemistry. To say "marine fuel additives help to prevent this" sounds like their marketing brochures. So, rather than just stopping with that statement, you'll need to explain HOW they "help to prevent this".

Some marine fuel additives such as Startron have surfactants (organic compounds) which act to break the surface tension of water allowing for re-bonding. As it applies here, any water that has resulted from phase separation in the blended fuel will be dispersed. As you know 4 stroke engines and there components will function just fine if the water particles are fine and dispersed enough as opposed to a large slug of water.

[Patrick Hardy]

I do not know of if it is BS and or great marketing but here is their answer:

[Originally posted on another web discussion]
Re: IS STARTRON SNAKE OIL?

I am Bill Lindsey, the VP of Marketing & Advertising for Star brite, the manufacturer of Star Tron, among many other items. After reading your post, we asked one of our consultants to answer it. His response is a bit technical, but I suspect you won't have any trouble understanding it. We welcome feedback on our product, either in public on forums such as this or via e-mail and our (800) tech line. Here is his response:

Dear boater: Additive chemistry is not readily performed dockside by boaters with jars by "shaking and looking". It is performed in labs with graduated cylinders and test tubes with measured amounts of water and fuel, measuring water dissipation by distillation recovery and centrifuges, measuring emulsions by viscosity, specific gravity, by light diffusion, etc. And microscopes. Hence the term “microscopic”. You can’t see microscopic changes with the naked eye. I'm afraid your dockside test did nothing to demonstrate Star Tron's effects in reducing large water droplets to microscopic droplets, and it didn’t demonstrate how water and gas in a boat interact. It appears that you were expecting a massive amount of water to vanish by adding Startron. We don’t claim that. Star Tron is a maintenance product. There are microscopic water droplets suspended in your boat right now, waiting for you to burn them off. Let us help you understand what's going wrong in your fuel and how Star Tron works to reduce water contamination.


First, water and gas don't mix and that’s a good thing. If you had an additive capable of absorbing readily visible amounts of water in your jar, the gas would be completely unsuitable for use. The ounce or two of water you have in your jar would have required dispersion into about 200 to 400 ounces of gas to be safe in an engine. Second, there are three ways to rid of water in gas tanks, and they are important based on the volume of water in the gas.


1. Mechanical separation: Remove the water bottoms by drain, centrifuge, trap/filter, or pump. Used for large amounts of water and instant removal. Most large boats have at least a water trap, but sometimes, its ends up being the fuel filter that traps the water. (and stops the boat)


2. Mechanical agitation and consumption: Disperses water droplets into the fuel by vibration/agitation while burning it, which is what happens every day in boats.


3. Chemical/surfactant: Disperses small amounts of water into gas by lowering the water's surface tension, which allows formation of smaller droplets so water passes easier through fuel filters (improves above method). There are two categories of dispersions: Colloids, which are drops so fine they suspended in the gas without chemical bonding, and Emulsifications, which are larger drops permanently bonded to a chemical that also bonds to the gas.


You have described a large percentage of water to gas in your water separator, but not the percentage of water in the boat’s tank. You have no way of knowing that without sampling the tank under agitation, and then centrifuging or distilling the sample. The separator and the Startron are both doing what they are supposed to do, ridding the tank of water. That's good. You don't want water in your engine. It ruins performance in a myriad of ways. Then you describe placing this sample of water, gas, and Startron in a container (I assume a jar, or all too often, a plastic water bottle) and shaking it. Star Tron forms colloidal dispersions, which are microscopic water drops, suspending as much water into the gas as is safe to burn in an engine. That amount to your naked eye is virtually ZERO! Gasoline must be clear and bright to burn. If you can see the water throughout the fuel, you're engine's in trouble. Depending on the temperature and refinery detergent packages in the gas, that's somewhere around .55% to .6%. Since E-10 will hold up to .5% water on its own, the enzyme in Startron is going to add to that about .05%. Can you see that in a jar? No chance. In your small sample, that would be a milliliter or two. It‘s tough enough to read a 1 ml change in a graduated cylinder. In the boat, it may have been several ounces, but I don't know, because I don't know how much fuel you hold. But if you use your boat and burn the fuel, and add more fuel and Star Tron, it doesn't take long to eliminate all the water, including what is in the traps. Remember, bulk water bottoms are removed by the traps, but water dispersed by vibration is consumed during use, and is assisted by additives that reduce surface tension. It’s the lingering water hiding in baffles and corners you want to get out chemically. Once the tank is totally dried out, the Star Tron will start dispersing the water in the traps as well, and eventually dry them out as well. Does adding more Star Tron disperse more water? No. The gas is saturated with water already, which is also the safe maximum level of water in gasoline. And that is a good thing, as too much water is bad, especially in the presence of ethanol. Studies have shown that high amounts of water and ethanol can be corrosive to metal plating in fuel pumps.


Star Tron itself doesn't absorb water and adding even more Star Tron did nothing. Star Tron doesn’t remove water magically, which is what would be needed in your static jar experiment. Instead, Star Tron facilitates more efficient removal of water through the previously mentioned dispersion process. In your jar sample, you said it came from the water separators. That's not just a container of E-10 gas, it’s really a container of water with gas in it. The boat's fuel tank probably had no more than 1% or 2% water, which is chemically “saturated” with water already, but your jar probably had 10 times that amount. Just guessing... it might have been 20 times that. Gas holds .5%, maybe .55% with Startron. You had a lot of water, too much for the gasoline to hold, and too much for Star Tron to disperse in a few ounces of gas. I guarantee you, in a lab, under actual measurement, Star Tron had increased the amount of water the gas could hold, but by a very small percentage.


Okay, now you know why your jar test showed nothing. Star Tron doesn't remove bulk water, it controls condensation in boats in use, exactly as Star brite states. Now, what is the problem, why are your separators filling with water and white goo, and why do you need Star Tron?


Ethanol loves water, always sucking it into a vented boat tank. From the moment it first is added to the gas tank, Star Tron starts to break it down into microscopic drops and suspend it harmlessly. If you use the boat, it will burn off the water, assisted by Star Tron's reducing the water droplet size. However, if left for a really long time without being used, water will eventually saturate the gas, and phase separate. You must be sitting at the dock a lot to build up a substantial amount of water, and leaving your tanks low, with lots of air space to accumulate moisture. As the ethanol in E-10 soaks up water from the air, after it reaches saturation, (.5%+.05% from the Star Tron) the water falls out, taking the hygroscopic, "polar" ethanol with it. From the point on, the surface of the gas is no longer polar, and loses its attraction to water. The only way water can continue to build up is through ordinary condensation, which takes an awfully long time of just sitting with near empty tanks. If you use your boat, or keep it full during long periods of nonuse, it’s really tough to get more than 1% water in the tank. Of course, I'm assuming none entered accidentally. It does happen. Loose fuel caps at sea, or during deck washing, can add a lot of water.


Once too much water does get in, ethanol and water mixed with a little gas turns white, as do virtually all water/oil emulsions. Once that mixture phase separates, the gas will still be clear and bright, but octane, resistance to gum formation, oxidation stability, and other characteristics will have been compromised. Even with water traps to protect your engine, the fuel quality gets degraded. Even if the water levels have exceeded what Star Tron can disperse at one time, Star Tron is still protecting that gas from loss of these combustion qualities. Star Tron is a "control" technology, not an instant cure for excessively built up water. That's what your trap is for, and apparently, its working fine.


You mention this is an ongoing problem. If you use your boat occasionally, adding some fresh gas and Star Tron as well, you should never have a water problem. Most boaters with traps will see the water eventually disappear when they use Star Tron and the boat. If you are using your boat routinely, and put Star Tron in the gas each time, yet still have a substantial amount of water in the traps, this raises a red flag to me, and I would like some more info. Here's the fear. I mentioned another chemical method for removing water bottoms, and that is by emulsification. You've already seen a light emulsification, water/ethanol mixed with gas, which turns white. But that is pretty thin, and generally passes through all but the smallest filters. That's what lowering surface tension with Star Tron or other quality fuel additives helps accomplish. If this thin emulsion wouldn't pass through a fuel filter, no boats would run on E-10 for very long, and that's just not the case.


Over the past year or two, a couple of companies have been pushing concentrated emulsifiers onto the boating industry for E-10. By "emulsifier", I mean the chemicals that are used in soaps and detergents: surface active agents that bond to both water and gas. They are called "dipoles", as they have both a positive and negative pole, which allows them to grab onto both water and oil. I said earlier gas and water don't mix. They repel each other electrically. However, a dipole emulsifier has one side that is attracted to water, and one side that is attracted to gas, and acts to bond to both, like glue, and holds them in a thicker mixture than either separate component. That is called an emulsification. Its white, its gooey, and it can really screw up your engine. Hopefully, the traps catch it all. GM and the SAE tested gas/water emulsions, its been tried many times over the years, and always abandoned, as they are really tough on fuel systems, exhaust components, etc. Water is not fuel, its corrosive and abrasive, and at no point do you want a large amount of it in your engine.


If you have added an emulsifier, have your tanks polished immediately. Star Tron will not break it down. It will help disperse it off the tank sidewalls, but it will plug filters like nobody's business. Don't be fooled by sleight of hand sales tricks, mixing water and gas in a jar, then magically making the water disappear with the emulsifier. It takes a perfect mix ratio, temperature, and heavy shaking, to create a clear and stable emulsion. You can't mimic this in a boat, not that it would matter if you could. It’s the emulsifier itself that causes the carbon deposits, not the water. Don't take my word for it, I'm just a 30 year veteran of the chemical industry and a fuel consultant to Star brite. You can buy the SAE research papers on water/gas emulsions online, or ask your engine manufacturer about their warranty should you intentionally wish to suspend massive amounts of water in yourgas with emulsifiers.


Star brite has substantial materials out on how to handle ethanol, and many magazines have reported on it as well. E-10 can be handled safely in boats, with some basic housekeeping and the right additives. Millions of boaters use E-10 without issues, but you definitely have to step up the maintenance procedures. Please read the Ethanol Story at www.startron.com again for more detail.


If you continue to have problems with white goo, and it just won't go away, please give us more specifics, all of them, and we can often track down exactly what's wrong, and help you fix it. Forensic fuel research isn't exactly CSI MIAMI, but somebody's got to do it.


* your geographic location

* the boat's tank size and consumption rates

* how old was the gas and last time you fueled up

* hours used per month

* seasonal temperatures and humidity

* other additives used, including any performance additives such as octane boosters, biocides

* engine tune and performance issues such as cranking times, smoke, rough idle, limited top end RPM’s, etc.

* number of single water traps per tank, or double in-line traps

* fuel filter micron size


Regards,

Matthew A. Cohen
General Manager, Technical Services
Solpower Corporation
mcohen@solpower.com

[bobbyB]

Mac

Here's a short clip I came across on another site that I thought was pretty interesting. Hopefully I've got it embeded right.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xzFzYoxxA10&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xzFzYoxxA10&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Be interested on your thoughts about what they are showing.

How's that Skyski working for ya?

B

[bobbyB]

looks like it didn't embed it right....I'll try a different way.

[bobbyB]

Here's a link to the site.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzFzYoxxA10

[Jesus_Freak]

Some marine fuel additives such as Startron have surfactants (organic compounds) which act to break the surface tension of water allowing for re-bonding. As it applies here, any water that has resulted from phase separation in the blended fuel will be dispersed. As you know 4 stroke engines and there components will function just fine if the water particles are fine and dispersed enough as opposed to a large slug of water.

Agreed, but there is not really any "bonding" going on between water (polar) and the gasoline (non-polar). It is merely suspension. The level of agitation required to suspend the water droplets depends most importantly on the water droplet size distribution. The emulsifier just "helps" them get smaller. The water is always there...it is only the shape and size that is determined by the additive. As you nicely pointed out, easier to pass fine droplets than slugs.

[CPlane Pilot]

Agreed, but there is not really any "bonding" going on between water (polar) and the gasoline (non-polar). It is merely suspension. The level of agitation required to suspend the water droplets depends most importantly on the water droplet size distribution. The emulsifier just "helps" them get smaller. The water is always there...it is only the shape and size that is determined by the additive. As you nicely pointed out, easier to pass fine droplets than slugs.

Your right on the money. Bonding was a poor choice of a word. Thanks for the clarification.

[Thrall]

No offense taken. I am hoping, however, that you (or anyone) will detail the chemistry. To say "marine fuel additives help to prevent this" sounds like their marketing brochures. So, rather than just stopping with that statement, you'll need to explain HOW they "help to prevent this".

I'm no chemist and frankly would rather be out driving my good running toys than fixing lean burn downs. Not near as important in 4 strokes as 2 strokes, but I'll tell you why I "believe" Sta-bil or Seafoam help. (Now these are all 2 stroke examples.)

I've used Stabil or Seafoam ever since I was a kid whenever I put up my 2 stroke toys for the season.
1. I've never had a problem starting my chainsaw after sitting even a year. Mom's bf used her chainsaw and it sat all winter with the old gas in it. Guess who had to pull the carb apart and clean it in order to get it running? Guess who did it the next sumer again to get it running?
2. Got a buddy (next 3 examples) who doesn't maintain his stuff worth a cr@p. (Oh, I've never had a sled not start or lean burn a hole after storage for the off-season either.)
96 XCR 600SP. 1st run of the season, 2 miles out, lean burn middle cyl. Cleaned the carb after repair, never happened again.
3. Same guy, '01 XC800, put the sleds up wet that year, no stabil, drain the fuel, etc. 1st run the next winter, lean burn down the mag side cyl.
4. Same guy SeaDoo EFI 2stroke jet boat. Didn't winterize the fuel system. Lean burn cyl #6 a couple weeks ago. Shop tested the injectors. That one was partially plugged and the others were onl slightly gummed up.

That's enough examples for me to put $5 worth of protection in my tank at the end of a season.

[shepherd]

Not near as important in 4 strokes as 2 strokes, but I'll tell you why I "believe" Sta-bil or Seafoam help. (Now these are all 2 stroke examples.)

I've used Stabil or Seafoam ever since I was a kid whenever I put up my 2 stroke toys for the season.....

That's enough examples for me to put $5 worth of protection in my tank at the end of a season.

Looks like you're talking about using it for long term storage.


Stabilizers to help decrease fuel oxidation can be helpful for gasoline that is being stored for more than about 4 months, but otherwise fuel and gasoline additives are a waste of money, in exactly the same way that oil additives are nothing but sucker-bait.


I don't think Mac is disagreeing with you. If I'm reading this thread correctly, he's saying that he doesn't believe the stuff will prevent alleged damage caused by ethanol-mixed fuels.

On a similar note, the dealer who sold me my Carolina Skiff (and other owners) have told me that I need to put Sta-Bil in every tank of gas. Otherwise, if I let my carbureted 4-stroke Honda motor sit for more than a week or two, the gas will gum up the jets in my carbs. I have two carb rebuilds as proof. This has nothing to do with ethanol either. POS Honda... :mad:

[Thrall]

Looks like you're talking about using it for long term storage.




I don't think Mac is disagreeing with you. If I'm reading this thread correctly, he's saying that he doesn't believe the stuff will prevent alleged damage caused by ethanol-mixed fuels.

On a similar note, the dealer who sold me my Carolina Skiff (and other owners) have told me that I need to put Sta-Bil in every tank of gas. Otherwise, if I let my carbureted 4-stroke Honda motor sit for more than a week or two, the gas will gum up the jets in my carbs. I have two carb rebuilds as proof. This has nothing to do with ethanol either. POS Honda... :mad:

Yeah you're right, I got off topic!

[bigmac]

I'm no chemist and frankly would rather be out driving my good running toys than fixing lean burn downs. Not near as important in 4 strokes as 2 strokes, but I'll tell you why I "believe" Sta-bil or Seafoam help. (Now these are all 2 stroke examples.)

I've used Stabil or Seafoam ever since I was a kid whenever I put up my 2 stroke toys for the season.
1. I've never had a problem starting my chainsaw after sitting even a year. Mom's bf used her chainsaw and it sat all winter with the old gas in it. Guess who had to pull the carb apart and clean it in order to get it running? Guess who did it the next sumer again to get it running?
2. Got a buddy (next 3 examples) who doesn't maintain his stuff worth a cr@p. (Oh, I've never had a sled not start or lean burn a hole after storage for the off-season either.)
96 XCR 600SP. 1st run of the season, 2 miles out, lean burn middle cyl. Cleaned the carb after repair, never happened again.
3. Same guy, '01 XC800, put the sleds up wet that year, no stabil, drain the fuel, etc. 1st run the next winter, lean burn down the mag side cyl.
4. Same guy SeaDoo EFI 2stroke jet boat. Didn't winterize the fuel system. Lean burn cyl #6 a couple weeks ago. Shop tested the injectors. That one was partially plugged and the others were onl slightly gummed up.

That's enough examples for me to put $5 worth of protection in my tank at the end of a season.

I use Stabil or Seafoam in my vehicles at the end of the season too. As I said, there is likely value in that to prevent oxidation (gumming).

[bigmac]

Don't worry about it, Cbryan thinks he is a wrencher, now that he works for a company that has a side business of selling pontoons, bayliners and sparkle boats.

Igniting the motor is something I hope happens every time I turn the key!

I am thinking he is talking about grenading the motors. If that is the case, then yes if fuel sits too long in high performance 2 strokes, the degradation of the octane can cause premature ignition and grenade/ignite the motor. However, to the best of my knowledge, fuel stabilizers do nothing to preserve the octane, they just make sure the fuel does not turn to varnish... am I correct?Yes, exactly.

[bigmac]

Mac

Here's a short clip I came across on another site that I thought was pretty interesting. Hopefully I've got it embeded right.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/xzFzYoxxA10&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/xzFzYoxxA10&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Be interested on your thoughts about what they are showing.

How's that Skyski working for ya?

B

Skyski works great, thanks. Put the new seat on it. That's a nice addition. Haven't had it in the water yet this season, hopefully this weekend.

I don't know what to make of the video - there's a lot of that kind of stuff around the internet. What I know is that additives for correcting the so-called problems with ethanol are bogus in modern engine and fuel systems. Alcohol itself is an additive that has been marketed for decades to "prevent gas-line freeze up". It's still commonly used in snowmobiles, for example, to keep water in the fuel system in suspension and prevent it from freezing in the fuel passages.