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View Full Version : Spinning a 180- help on technique please


Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-22-2005, 03:38 PM
OK, I wanted to ask what the safe and correct technique is for spinning a 180 with a Prostar?? What speed? , how/when to back off throttle??
I have seen this done with Mastercrafts many times in ski shows. I want to try it with my Prostar but I want to be safe and smart about it. I know the owners manual says you need to be careful not to slow down to quickly so water dont get into the exhaust and backup into the engine. is that a concern when you spin a 180?? Any and all input will be greatly appreciated!! :D

THanks!!! I am all ears! :)

bret
05-22-2005, 06:46 PM
"the spin", "bat turn" and "180" is fun but it's really an Emergency move to get back to pick up an injured skier quickly if needed. Ok back to the fun: if someone really wants to see it, I go 34-36, turn the wheel to to the right almost all the way and bring the throttle to neutral. Turns around in her own wake.

André
05-22-2005, 07:39 PM
I don't like to do them.In my mind it put unnecessary stress on the underwater gear and platform.
IMHO

BriEOD
05-22-2005, 08:34 PM
I don't like to do them.In my mind it put unnecessary stress on the underwater gear and platform.
IMHO

I'm with Andre. Drive er' like a tractor, fast on the straightaways slow in the turns.

André
05-22-2005, 08:39 PM
I'm with Andre. Drive er' like a tractor, fast on the straightaways slow in the turns.
Looking for some "John Deere" stickers ? :D
Did you go out?

BriEOD
05-22-2005, 08:58 PM
Yes, yes I did!! :D

SKI*MC
05-22-2005, 10:29 PM
They are fun to do, but be sure to keep some gas on the throttle to its all going out, and there isnt a good chance of the ater coming back in. Also, you might burrey your bow if you do it right!

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-22-2005, 11:51 PM
Well......I dont know.....maybe I wont try this.... See thats why I am asking here BEFORE I try it. Sounds like its not that popular of a thing to do. I just assumed lots of people did them with MCs because they were capable of doing it. I guess I never thought that it would put lots of stress on the underwater gear(fins, rudder, and shaft) either.... and I certainly never thought you could actually swamp the bow...THATS scary!

Lots of great input here people!!! THANK YOU!! I am going to rethink this alot before I make a decision to try it. I might opt out and not do it at all. anybody else got any ideas or stories about this??

Thanks to all!!

Bongo
05-23-2005, 12:00 AM
I'm with Bret on this one. 34 - 36 MPH. I generally give it a quick half turn left, then hard, hard right. Back to neutral. Laugh at the guy(s) in back who just got a face full of water.

I do this sparingly (once or twice per year) and usually when there's a little ripple in the water. Never any big waves. Never with any expensive (i.e. cameras, cell phones) or loose equipment on board. Always, with at least one unsuspecting vict... er, I mean passenger.

Bongo

east tx skier
05-23-2005, 12:03 AM
While I tend to agree that too many of those can't be too good for the underwater gear, I'd be lying if I told you (1) I haven't done a couple of 'em, and (2) they're not fun. Safety first. Warn your passengers to hang on and make sure no other boats are too close. Get it up to speed (necessary speed is debateable. I've done them from as little as 25 mph). Then turn the wheel and bring the throttle to neutral fast.

99.99 percent of the time, it's driven like a tractor for me, too.

jayocheskey
05-23-2005, 01:17 AM
First of all -- doing 180's and stunts like that is why the company 'Sea-Doo' exists. Those types of maneuvers can do NO good.

Second -- (only because I'm one of those guys that likes to see the impossible attempted) I'd really like to see an X-80 attempt the 180. That would probably end up more like a barrell role, but I'd pay good money to see it.

erkoehler
05-23-2005, 02:03 AM
I will admit, I have attempted one since I got the boat. Haven't gotten the full sliding effect, I will wait for some victims to be on board.

milkmania
05-23-2005, 03:27 AM
I got my wings this weekend....
http://www.writeonrice.com/bat_turn.jpg


#1 I will not do them with passengers
#2 I use a PFD & Lanyard EVERY time I try them.
#3 I am not comfortable doing them to the right...left is more comfortable due to centrifugal force pushing toward the outside wall.
#4 I run WOT, grab right side (at least 4 o'clock position) of steering wheel with left hand, start cranking hard left, while pulling the throttle to neutral.

#5 I don't endorse it, but it sure is fun
http://www.writeonrice.com/bat2.jpg

http://www.writeonrice.com/bat3.jpg

André
05-23-2005, 09:31 AM
Seems like someone had good time practicing Bat turns this week end...
Nice pix Milk !The boat looks really sink in the last shot!

milkmania
05-23-2005, 09:43 AM
we had a pretty good time this weekend, broke the trailer, played with a parrot, watched a sea plane use the ramp, went swimming, boating, watched Air Evac haul off a body, saw some nice bikinis, more swimming & boatin'....

you know, usual stuff:)

http://www.writeonrice.com/plane.jpg


Found "The Party Cove" and also found out why a lot of women were wearing Mardi Gras beads:woohoo:

had lot of fun, can't wait till Thursday to go back!

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-23-2005, 09:54 AM
WOW! those pics are awesome MM!! too cool! I would love to try a Bat turn, but I dont know.....I am giving lots of thought to stressing out the underwater gear by this manuever. My boat is in such great condition and I want to keep it that way. But It sure looks fun!

André
05-23-2005, 09:59 AM
Milk
Is that sea plane powering up the ramp on wheels or are they dollies to put the plane in water ?
Nice full week end!

milkmania
05-23-2005, 10:00 AM
WOW! those pics are awesome MM!! too cool! I would love to try a Bat turn, but I dont know.....I am giving lots of thought to stressing out the underwater gear by this manuever. My boat is in such great condition and I want to keep it that way. But It sure looks fun!

my camera did a 5 frame shot but it didn't catch the full effect and it was too large to post for now...

but please don't forget PFD & LAYNARD for sure!!!:headbang:

I kept wondering how water was getting into the back of the boat:o

the pic shows it now:steering:

bcampbe7
05-23-2005, 10:34 AM
I kept wondering how water was getting into the back of the boat:o

the pic shows it now:steering:

I was wondering how you kept the boat above water! That last picture looks like your about to pull a Titanic!

School Skier
05-23-2005, 10:34 AM
Doing these bat turns are fun but can put stress on the hull!

Jim@BAWS
05-23-2005, 10:48 AM
A power turn MUST ALWAYS be spinning AWAY from shore.

Facing the water on shore a boat coming in from the right will turn AWAY from shore then spin. The boat can spin to the LEFT but is not encouraged. A right hand powerturn is easier, less stress and more impressive. When you can get the boat to go ALL THE WAY 360 deg, all the way around call me !!!. Power turns are fun and impressive. Know you limitations and how to handle the boat. You can spin older hulls 94 and under under 25 MPH. NEVER EVER POWER TURN TOWARDS SHORE

Jim @BAWS

André
05-23-2005, 10:53 AM
Is being hard on the underwater an "Urban Lagend" ?

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-23-2005, 10:59 AM
Is being hard on the underwater an "Urban Lagend" ?

Thats a good question Andre'. I am so interested in trying one, but I dont want to get into anything thats going to cause undue stress to the boat.


SO why is it easier and more impressive to do a right Bat turn than a left bat turn? curious......


so is it easy to get water backing up over the hull into the boat during a bat turn?

Very interesting ideas here!!! keep em coming!!! :popcorn:

Don

Bert
05-23-2005, 11:54 AM
A power turn MUST ALWAYS be spinning AWAY from shore.

Facing the water on shore a boat coming in from the right will turn AWAY from shore then spin. The boat can spin to the LEFT but is not encouraged. A right hand powerturn is easier, less stress and more impressive. When you can get the boat to go ALL THE WAY 360 deg, all the way around call me !!!. Power turns are fun and impressive. Know you limitations and how to handle the boat. You can spin older hulls 94 and under under 25 MPH. NEVER EVER POWER TURN TOWARDS SHORE

Jim @BAWS
Is that the voice of expierience ? have you seen one spun on to shore? When I was at Cypress Gardens I saw them darn near spin them onto the stage, four at a time. Those guy's could Drive

milkmania
05-23-2005, 11:58 AM
Milk
Is that sea plane powering up the ramp on wheels or are they dollies to put the plane in water ?
Nice full week end!

he had retracting landing gear, and was powering up the ramp in that picture...
he dropped in for lunch with his family and took off going down the same ramp.

Underneath looked like an aluminum hull with little aluminum pontoons out on the wings.

the kids got a kick out of it:wavey:

Thrall
05-23-2005, 12:03 PM
[QUOTE=Jim@BAWS]A power turn MUST ALWAYS be spinning AWAY from shore.

Facing the water on shore a boat coming in from the right will turn AWAY from shore then spin. The boat can spin to the LEFT but is not encouraged. A right hand powerturn is easier, less stress and more impressive. When you can get the boat to go ALL THE WAY 360 deg, all the way around call me !!!. Power turns are fun and impressive. Know you limitations and how to handle the boat. You can spin older hulls 94 and under under 25 MPH. NEVER EVER POWER TURN TOWARDS SHORE

Jim @BAWS[/QUOTE
I am in agreement w/ Jim. Never tried one to the left, but to the right would seem to put less stress on the running gear. Notice how it is much easier to turn right than left during normal running. That's because the prop wash/rotation is trying to push the boat in that direction.

milkmania
05-23-2005, 12:04 PM
A power turn MUST ALWAYS be spinning AWAY from shore.

Facing the water on shore a boat coming in from the right will turn AWAY from shore then spin. The boat can spin to the LEFT but is not encouraged. A right hand powerturn is easier, less stress and more impressive. When you can get the boat to go ALL THE WAY 360 deg, all the way around call me !!!. Power turns are fun and impressive. Know you limitations and how to handle the boat. You can spin older hulls 94 and under under 25 MPH. NEVER EVER POWER TURN TOWARDS SHORE

Jim @BAWS

I understand what you're saying, but I was going to ask for clarification...

are you saying to travel alongside in the direction of the shore and not drive towards the shore? from right to left of the shore and vice versa

I could see a potential of cable breaking or similiar malfunction if I were driving towards the shore.


Also, if I do any more, I will turn RIGHT only, and brace myself

thanks

milkmania
05-23-2005, 12:05 PM
I am in agreement w/ Jim. Never tried one to the left, but to the right would seem to put less stress on the running gear. Notice how it is much easier to turn right than left during normal running. That's because the prop wash/rotation is trying to push the boat in that direction.

gotcha:wavey:

east tx skier
05-23-2005, 12:49 PM
As for the ease of going to the right, in my case, I've got a filed rudder. So if I let go at speed, the wheel will spin that way anyway. As a general rule however, I suppose it has to do with the left-hand turn of the prop and the whole action/reaction thing. This has a name that I leared when I used to take flying lessons, but can't for the life of me remember right now. Basically, the airplane tends to yaw a bit in the opposite direction as the propeller spins.

BrianM
05-23-2005, 12:53 PM
I would not hesitate to give one a try. Sure they exert more stress on the boat than going in a straight line but my feeling is as long as you aren't spinning a dozen a day you shouldn't have much to worry about. What fun is it owning a sports car if you don't burn a little rubber and exceed the speed limit from time to time? :D

Give one a try. It is nice to know what the boat will do and they are fun to boot. Just don't make it an addiction because they are way fun. Anything pre 1998 spins like a top. Later models still do them but require a little more effort.

I will usually spin mine from skiing speed 30 -36 mph but have done a few going WOT. Enjoy yourself and HOLD ON! :eek3: :woohoo:

milkmania
05-23-2005, 01:22 PM
I would not hesitate to give one a try. Sure they exert more stress on the boat than going in a straight line but my feeling is as long as you aren't spinning a dozen a day you shouldn't have much to worry about. What fun is it owning a sports car if you don't burn a little rubber and exceed the speed limit from time to time? :D

Give one a try. It is nice to know what the boat will do and they are fun to boot. Just don't make it an addiction because they are way fun. Anything pre 1998 spins like a top. Later models still do them but require a little more effort.

I will usually spin mine from skiing speed 30 -36 mph but have done a few going WOT. Enjoy yourself and HOLD ON! :eek3: :woohoo:

being able to do one of these turns has built confidence in me with my boat.
when I first got it, I'd try turning sharp and I'd give up way too early.
I 'd turn wide arching turns before, now I know what the boat can do, and with the tracking skegs, I've learned it will bite in the turns more that I ever thought it would.

kinda like when I went from a Camaro to a full size Blazer.....at first it felt top heavy and felt like I was driving an overhead camper, then as I learned what the truck would/could do....I could put it anywhere:steering:

ryanbush
05-23-2005, 01:30 PM
First of all -- doing 180's and stunts like that is why the company 'Sea-Doo' exists. Those types of maneuvers can do NO good.

Second -- (only because I'm one of those guys that likes to see the impossible attempted) I'd really like to see an X-80 attempt the 180. That would probably end up more like a barrell role, but I'd pay good money to see it.

How much money did you say you would pay?

AirJunky
05-23-2005, 01:33 PM
We do Around the Boats all day long in my 205...... which amounts to a good sharp 180 by the boat driver. The boat is turning sharp, at speed, but not letting the back end break loose. I've checked the alignment & it's never been out of spec.
A couple of years ago a friend in AZ taught us how to do Around the boat & back. Took a few tries to nail it. The boat essentially does a full 360 & the skier goes across the bow twice!

So go for it. :banana:

Storm861triple
05-23-2005, 02:04 PM
To the original poster.

This manuver really doesn't take any "skill" to do. It's not like you need practice, or athletic ability. Just do it.

If you want to do it under "decel", go to the left; its easier.

If you want to do it under power, go right; it's easier.

I like doing mine to the left under decel. I keep it in gear so I can power out of the way of the wake when it comes up behind the boat after the spin. Piece of cake. Yes there is more stress on the drive train than not doing one (duh). Yes the components handle it fine.

Just go do one, then tell us what you think.

bcampbe7
05-23-2005, 02:16 PM
How much money did you say you would pay?

Have you done it your X-80 yet? :eek3:

Jim@BAWS
05-23-2005, 05:49 PM
Is that the voice of expierience ? have you seen one spun on to shore? When I was at Cypress Gardens I saw them darn near spin them onto the stage, four at a time. Those guy's could Drive

Actually Bert,
Probably about 18 years worth of PROFESSIONAL driving experience ! As
a matter of fact I have driven numerous shows for Gardens Skiers away from the Gardens that where contracted shows. Have I driven for the Gardens? Yes 1 time for World Record Day about 5 years ago. Drove one of the boats that launched 1 of 8 hangliders at the same time !!!

ALL Spins outs at the Gardens where right hand powerturns AWAY from the audience. They may have appeared to be driving on shore but ALL spins are done to the right. Each boat has a specfic point picked out to drive to prior to doing a spin !!!

I am speaking of driving parallel to shore before doing a spin. A 360 around the boat or BOATO as it is called starts to the left without a power turn the goes back to the right. Sarasota Ski a rees hold the record for 10 or 11 around the boat. I have pulled 5. You need real technique to do that one!!!

Jim@BAWS

00_x5
05-23-2005, 06:25 PM
If you have a tower and are going to be doing one.....take the boards off first. Learned that one the hard way. Lucky i did not loose a board or damage the prop. From what another boat tells me, the board launched pretty far.

milkmania
05-23-2005, 07:32 PM
heading back to the lake tonight,,,
I'll be doing the right power turn tomorrow away from shore

pray for me tonight:purplaugh

cdewet
05-23-2005, 08:35 PM
Safety first but seriously, THIS IS FUN.
Did it this weekend in my '85 SS and that baby turns on a dime....
Got the back end wet, but that's why I have a bilge pump :)
My runs are also to the right. Haven't tried a left yet. The boat turns best to the right under normal driving, so I figured that to be the best side.

milkmania
05-26-2005, 01:44 PM
well, I did it

to the right is a much better spin:headbang:

Upper Michigan Prostar190
05-26-2005, 01:46 PM
Awesome!!!!! :toast: :D

k2mc
05-26-2005, 03:02 PM
you guys are making me miss my PS. The x-10 just isn't the same.

aprgriggs
06-02-2005, 10:04 AM
Has anyone gotten there 209 or X9...to spin. I just can't get the boat to do this.

sizzler
06-02-2005, 10:06 AM
too scared of dumping the bow....might try it with my tonneau cover on

tex
06-02-2005, 10:11 AM
gas it into the turn and as the boat settles back down, tap(easily)into reverse for a split second-it causes the boat to back up. Makes the trick alot cooler.

Evan Jones
06-02-2005, 10:36 AM
Has anyone gotten there 209 or X9...to spin. I just can't get the boat to do this.

I used to spin a 190 easily under deceleration. When I got my 205 it wouldn't do it. I finally succeeded in a accelerating power turn. Full throttle and crank the wheel as hard and as fast to the right (no powerslot tranny). The nose will dig in and start to grab. When the boat spins be ready to back off the throttle instantly or you will over-rev the engine when the prop breaks loose. The boat is now facing the opposite direction (180 degrees) but still trying to travel in the original direction (only backwards). You can now give it a little throttle to keep the rear end from submerging and filling the boat with water.

Have fun !!! Hope it works with a 209.

dante18
06-05-2005, 04:02 PM
I did this quite a bit in my 89 prostar 190. She handled it quite well. Be sure to warn everybody though. I did it one time on my way back to the boat ramp and thought everybody had heard me tell them what i was doing. My friend sitting next to the motor box didn't and he flew out of the boat. Everybody sitting in the back was drenched and the guy in the middle almost flew out too. Needless to say, he wasn't very happy with me. Good luck and have fun.

milkmania
06-05-2005, 04:28 PM
updated (http://www.bhammonster.com/brian/thumb.html)

http://www.bhammonster.com/brian/thumb.html



got a few sequential shots of my PS190 spinning:woohoo:

(http://www.writeonrice.com/boat/index.html)

Ric
09-07-2006, 07:46 PM
my 2000 190 would not do a spin or bat turn in either direction..

BrianM
09-07-2006, 09:26 PM
my 2000 190 would not do a spin or bat turn in either direction..

You must not have tried hard enough. Those year Prostars with the Positive Pressure Tracking System (PPTS) are tough to spin but they will you just need a little more speed.

peason
09-07-2006, 10:08 PM
Ump - how come you didn't show off when I was up there? I have never done this in my boat.

Upper Michigan Prostar190
09-07-2006, 10:11 PM
Ump - how come you didn't show off when I was up there? I have never done this in my boat.
Sorry phil :o I did some "around the boat" manuevers last friday with the Mayor skiing. I did two practice runs first with no skier, and those were WICKED!:D boat slid right around!:D

peason
09-07-2006, 10:34 PM
I was just refering to the "bat' turn or in your case the Superman Turn. I have been on a boat doing one of these, but it has been a long time!

Upper Michigan Prostar190
09-07-2006, 11:04 PM
I was just refering to the "bat' turn or in your case the Superman Turn. I have been on a boat doing one of these, but it has been a long time!
Thats what I was referring too, a bat turn. I did two of them while practicing for the around the boat manuevers last weekend.

PendO
09-07-2006, 11:04 PM
UMP ... Wide open throttle, turn the wheel, pull the throttle back to neutral as you spin

east tx skier
09-07-2006, 11:25 PM
On UMP's boat, I'll bet he can do one at about 25 mph. UMP, if you do one wide open, make sure you have the camera rolling. :o