View Full Version : Is this how it's going to be

east tx skier
07-23-2004, 10:12 AM
I got an email from a fellow board member who was concerned with the course the board had taken over the past week. He was talking about the old board, which, of course, hasn't shut down yet. As I hadn't been there in a day or so, I decided to take a look.

As some may remember, there was a rant on another mastercraft forum about promoting other brands on this website. The topic was beat to death, both pro and con, yada yada yada.

After reading the email, I went to the old board and took a look. Whatdayaknow, both the thread about the Malibu, and my thread about my experience behind the 2004 Ski Nautique (in which I stated that I couldn't wait to go out and get another set behind my MasterCraft) both seem to have been deleted. Of course, I could've missed something. But they're not in the archives either.

If they have been deleted, it is pathetic. TTAdmin, did you delete these threads? They never seemed to be a problem for you before last week. If they were deleted, it's like the actors from sitcoms that appeared on talk shows on competing networks in the 80s and couldn't mention the name of the network that their show was on. (3 networks, 3 big boat dealers - coincidence?). It was just so stupid. If people were watching your network, was the mention that a popular show wasn't on your network going to make them turn the channel? My bet is that they probably already knew. Notice that this practice has long gone.

When I hear that people enjoy their new Malibu boats, it doesn't make me want to run out and buy one necessarily. We MC owners are not so fickle that we'd read a post on this board, and ditch an expensive ski boat for a competing brand. We know they're out there. Most of us have skied a set or two behind them, yet not jumped ship without weighing the benefits of one brand over another to see if it fits our specific needs rather than those of another person.

Deleting the posts just makes it look like MC is trying to hide something in my opinion. If anything, it makes me all the more curious at what I might be missing.

As an active member of this group, I'd like to hear your side of this. If your response is akin to "... my house ... my rules," then I see where this is coming from, and where it's going.

I look forward to your response.

07-23-2004, 10:26 AM


07-23-2004, 10:30 AM
One more,


east tx skier
07-23-2004, 10:32 AM
Ah, I see. :noface:

Well, it probably won't be long before this one gets deleted.

Looks like from the email I got earlier, we'll be losing a good board member as a result of all this (hope MC doesn't lose him as a customer, too).

east tx skier
07-23-2004, 11:21 AM
I'll bring them over here ...

Andre wrote:

Can you be more precise about that...Except the part where it turned bad because you know who said what,i think the thread was just another discussion and was polite.Nobody was bashing nobody,just a comparison between skiboat.
Now,if someone post that he prefer a Malibu or a CC boat,what's gonna happen?
In the 2 years i have been on this forum,i think it's the first time we've been censored.
I'm pretty sure there have been some phone calls or e mails lately with that person who started this incident.
He his now posting some really good infos(since this morning) that will help a lot of peoples as he have a great knowledge on Mastercraft.
Now,the new site is "alive" for a couples of hours and seems awsome and I'm ready to forget about this and keep it rock'n rolling...But i don't think we need to be censored and NOBODY was promoting Malibu or Correct Craft...Just some of YOURS members having a discussion.
Good luck with the new site and congrats!
André Lamarre

TT Admin (Admin) responded:

The statement is vague and meant to be that way. I will use my discretion as to what should and should not be posted. I will not act on anything as long as things don't get out of hand.

I have nothing against posting a preference for another boat. I just have to make sure this site (part of my job) is used for the promotion of MasterCraft and not another manufacturer.

I removed those threads not to censor the conversation about comparing boats but to drop the discussion and ask people to move on. I'm not trying to be the bad guy...but I'm the one who gets stuck between a rock and hard place...

Sounds to me, as Andre referenced, like somebody called up MC and started trouble, thereby putting TT between a rock and a hard place. But if it was something I said, I apologize.

Nobody in that post did anything but state his/her preference as to advantages among the brands. The majority was pro-MC.

As far as promoting these things goes, if you don't own a dealership, work for MC, or have a boat for sale, you aren't really promoting anything. To say you like this aspect of a brand, or post a picture of a boat you aren't selling isn't true promotion. :twocents:

I'm sorry you were placed between a rock and a hard place, TT. Hope it was nothing I said. You know I think you're doing a great job. I, too, care about this board and want it to be a positive place for everyone. When somebody buys a MC, I stand to gain nothing monetarily. I love this brand. When I mention that I rode behind another boat, and liked its wake, it's an honest opinion, unmotivated by anything but a desire to communicate with others who love the sport and the boats that pull it.]

east tx skier
07-23-2004, 12:12 PM
I guess I'll continue to have a conversation with myself on this. I went to the Malibu (yeah I said it) owner's board and posted a message asking if they had a similar policy over there. Here are some of the responses.

No we don't have those rules here, and welcome. We have many members that own other makes infact one guy Brian is known as "MasterBU". We may raze ya a bit but it's in all good fun. Who knows you may find people in MBO in your area to ride w/ and make many new friends as I have. Many of the issues and upgrades aren't restricted to any brands so we can all help one another regading that. We've had many discussions regarding wakes of different models and makes and informs us all, even though some points are subjective ....

We're glad to have you and do have several MC owners that contribute alot. Many issues have us all in the same boat, so to speak. If you get abused, it'll all be in good fun and who knows, we may win you over from the Dark Side

Like Indmar engines... although I have to say I've never heard of many probs with the Indmarized MC mills. MC makes a very nice boat.

But apart from most of the content being Malibu specific, the greater purpose of this community is to unite people with a common bond. Besides the fact that (most) of us have the same brand of boat, the greater commonality is that we all love watersports.

If you're out on the water with your family and friends, who really cares what brand you're behind. I don't think your smiles will be any bigger from the end of the rope because you're behind a 'Bu.

I think these are all healthy attitudes. I didn't post the one that made reference to an "inferiority complex" although I can see why that might be perceived.

TTAdmin, the next time you find yourself between a rock and a hard place, I think looking to see how the competition handles things isn't always such a bad idea. Granted the MBO board isn't a Malibu sponsored site, but we like the job you're doing and we like this site. I'm sure nobody here wants to go to the trouble of building an unaffiliated MC board.

I like this dialogue between me, myself, and I. Nobody disagrees.

07-23-2004, 12:29 PM
The problem may be that TTAdmin is getting orders from someone at headquarters that has never been to tmcowners.com. I compare it to HMO's telling doctors how to practice medicine. Point being is that it may not be his decision. All he (or she, not sure... Never meet the person) can do is go to the "decision makers" and express the customers feelings. I hope this is something that is being done. To me MasterCraft should welcome the competition and use it to build an even better boat.

07-23-2004, 12:30 PM
You said it all Doug.I started the "skied a ... today" thread on july 8.
it as been deleted on July 20 .Until that post from myMC on his site that affected our old site,i thaught that everything was fine and that it was a civilize discussion between boat owners,board MEMBERS and waterskiing fanatics.
And yes,i like the open mind of the MBO peoples for that...(Most of them)
Hope we won't get censored again... :(

east tx skier
07-23-2004, 12:37 PM
Becampbe, I think you're right. My guess is that someone prompted that over at MC though, but I could be wrong. I posted those MBO responses so that TTAdmin might show them to his higher ups if this became an issue in the future.

No matter what we're talking about, we're on MasterCraft's site. If we're here, that's good for their business. If we're elsewhere, MC does not benefit.

Trust me, I'm a consumer. :)

07-23-2004, 12:52 PM
Agreed... :)

07-23-2004, 01:37 PM
Doug, I've got a reunion t-shirt that I think you'd like. It says,

"It's either a MasterCraft or the sickening feeling of knowing you settled for second best"
As usual I don't have anything constructive to add, I just wanted to post something over here to see what it looked like, and to get that big "0" from beside my name.

07-23-2004, 01:44 PM
"CAPTAIN on the bridge..."

east tx skier
07-23-2004, 01:49 PM
Darrell, that's a good one.

I made a hilarious (at least I think so) video spoof of the MasterCard "Priceless" commercial. Basically, the footage is of my wife skiing and wiping out horribly. That's really all I'm allowed to say, as she will string me up by my fellas if I post or email it.

Hence the signature.

07-23-2004, 02:44 PM
Sorry, but I have to disagree with some of my friends.

This board is owned by MC, a private company. Like it or not, a private company can do what it wants with its property. I, as a capitalistic American, happen to like that. As another example, ClearChannel is the company that removed Howard Stern from ITS radio stations. I reiterate that they were THEIR radio stations. That was not censorship. That was the decision of the OWNERS.

C'mon guys, censorship is something imposed on people by the government....like Canada not letting FoxNews be broadcast there. Censorship is not when a private company decides (if this is indeed the case) that they don't want other boats being promoted on a site that they pay for and pay an employee to maintain. That's called a business decision.

I don't want to get into whether it was right or wrong to delete the threads. I feel that it is the perogative of the owner or his agent.

I had a feeling something would happen with the main MC forum being owned by the company. However, I thought it would come into play when discussions of where to get non-OEM replacement parts took place. Or when Do-It-Yourself (DIY's) on service that would take away business from dealers were described in detail. The things above are what make an owner's forum useful. But, this being a MC-owned site, I wouldn't blame them if they took exception to that.

I think talk about censorship is unwarrented. We need to step back and realize how good we have it.

If we want an unrestricted place, then someone is going to have to buck up and start one. Remember, we don't have rights here on this site, only privilages.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

07-23-2004, 02:51 PM
Hey Doug, you could always "PM" the video to your friends... who'd tell?;)

I had to disable notifications quite a while ago - I wasn't getting any work done -- so I discipline myself to only check while on lunch & after work. I think I'm doing good if I can respond to a conversation within a day or two - I, for one, certainly couldn't respond this morning.

I suspect you're right - someone pulled TTAdmin's chain.

IIRC, some of the posts weren't all that friendly, and, if I read TTAdmin's note correctly, I think he was also concerned that we were going down a very large rat hole that could do a lot of damage to the relationships we've built on this board..

I've always felt welcome on the 'other network' - I mean 'forum', and I'm sure their membership will use this incident as an example as to why they are independent...

I know you know my stance -- I guess I'm a little stunned. Oh well - what I know for sure: we like boats and we like watersports and we like all this BS between each other.. we can't change what's happened.. hope it won't happen again..

now... how about that video....:popcorn:

07-23-2004, 02:57 PM
I come in off the water and WW3 is going on in here.

07-23-2004, 02:58 PM
"Looks like from the email I got earlier, we'll be losing a good board member as a result of all this"

Can you be more specific?

07-23-2004, 02:59 PM
Nsx bill
Don't know what you mean by Fox news...I probably own the same dish as you and get a zillion Fox news a day... ;)

07-23-2004, 03:05 PM

How was the water? Who drove??

east tx skier
07-23-2004, 03:07 PM
Bill, I don't disagree with you. I've not called it censorship. Although TTAdmin did use the word. I don't debate that MC can do it. However, I'm suggesting that it's in their best interest to let these things play out. Before they were deleted, I thought that it had played out.

The Howard Stern/Clear Channel example is a good one. He rubbed some people of power the wrong way, and clear channel dumped him either to save their hide or to avoid the fight depending on who you believe. What's happened? His ratings are through the roof. His loyal following (is it like 18 million) is, by and large, not terribly pleased with the FCC or the administration, and his show got picked up in 12-14 (approx.) new markets, among them some of the markets in which he was on clear channel. Infinity stuck by him, and will reap rewards in excess of the fines. If MC built boats the way clear channel programmed its broadcasts, I wouldn't own one. And if MC, as it has every right to do, causes TTAdmin to continue to delete posts like the two, which frankly I thought contained some good information, then the numbers here will dwindle, and MC will not reap the benefits of our congregating on their site.

This is a discussion forum. The point is, obviously, to engage in discussion. The problem is that saying we cannot "promote" other brands is as vague as the FCC's definition of obscenity (and the USSC's for that matter). TTAdmin even said it didn't bother him if we compared brands? So now, it's like we're walking on eggshells (perhaps some more than others) as to what we can say and can't say.

At the MBO board, every other post was saying, ... and this is why we're not dealer sponsored. Whew. ... or the like. Creating a board like this is not up my alley. Plus, I think TTAdmin has done a phenominal job with this board.

I'm not here for the glitz, the glamour, the bells or the whistles. I was here when it was one big long thread. I'm about the info and the people. If MC decides to start pulling those benefits, then why stick around? (this is hypothetical of course).


Why doesn't the popcorn link work.

east tx skier
07-23-2004, 03:09 PM
Brian, since he didn't post it here, I presume he doesn't want his message or his name out there. So I haven't mentioned the substance of the email or his name.

07-23-2004, 03:12 PM
Fair enough. Doug, you skiing tomorrow?

east tx skier
07-23-2004, 03:20 PM
I wish. We're going to be in Houston. So my wife and I are going to regionals on Cypress Hills Lakes. This will be my first trip to see a tournament, so I'm pretty psyched. Can't beat the free admission either.

07-23-2004, 03:20 PM
I did use the word "censored"...My english is not perfect and sometimes may not mean exactly what i mean in French.
Feel free to replace the word"censored" by anything that means deleting those 2 threads and not promoting any other brand of ski boat(Wich i understand and agree to, but sincerely think that was not happenning in those threads ).
In fact,i really beleive none of this would have happenned if myMC would not have bash the Official site and his peoples... :mad:

east tx skier
07-23-2004, 03:21 PM
By the way, Bill. I think you have my favorite Avatar. Way cool.

07-23-2004, 03:25 PM
I agree guys, I could have bought any brand of inboard, but I bought and only wanted a MASTERCRAFT. That should say enough. I have skied them all and looked at them all, but have a MASTERCRAFT!! And damn proud of it. :woohoo:

Dan K
07-23-2004, 03:32 PM
I didn't want to jump in your private discussion because I thought you were boosting your post count to the usual lofty numbers. :D
I agree with all you said and this board should remain open for it to be fair and objective.

07-23-2004, 03:40 PM
As I said, I'm not here to argue about what should or should not have been removed.

Doug, I also never said you were the one who mentioned censorship.

I was merely pointing out that, as the owner, MC has the right to do what it pleases. We don't have any rights here. I for one, am not going to take my ball and go home...just try to adjust. It'll all be fine.

This is the only forum I'm involved with that is company-sponsored, so I'm not surprised that they control it.

As for ClearChannel, I think they took the high road. Whatever their reasons, that is something I would like to see more PEOPLE do in our current society in this country. I have no problem with people of power making decisions about their company. But that's just me.

Andre, see http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2004/jul/04071502.html . This just came back from a search. Tell me if its wrong.


07-23-2004, 03:46 PM
Good grief, I was the one that said censorship, I called him a commie, I'm the one that was ranting and raving trying to stick up for the old board. My apologies to all that MY opinion OBVIOUSLY offended. I'll stick to laughing at Rick's jokes, Andre's terrible English and the normal stuff. Way to stuffy on here lately.

07-23-2004, 03:51 PM
Nsx bill
Don't see any "censoring" thing in there,just that there 's already about 10 full time news channels available to me... :confused:
No big deal anyway... :friday:

07-23-2004, 03:56 PM
Andre who is Natahlie? Not often? :banana:

07-23-2004, 03:58 PM
Sorry dude, just MY opinion. I'm glad MC pays for the site. MBO is a better site, but notice that there is also always discussion on how to FINANCE it.

Just my .02

Now, for the margaritas!

07-23-2004, 04:02 PM
[QUOTE=BriEOD] I'll stick to laughing at Rick's jokes, Andre's terrible English and the normal stuff. QUOTE]


Party On!

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

07-23-2004, 04:03 PM
Bill I was lobbing the grenades at you. Just a situation that got way out of hand. BTW, thanks again about the tip for the breakeless ignition at DIM. That thing is the poop. The boat has never started so effortlessly. Have a "Margarita and Cheesburger" for me dude!

07-23-2004, 04:04 PM
Rock On Big Neil!!! :banana: :banana: :banana:
MarkP------> :banana: LMFAO

07-23-2004, 04:06 PM
BriEOD, all... party on dudes.

Sorry my first posts over here had to piss everyone off, but...

I yam what I yam

east tx skier
07-23-2004, 04:10 PM
Actually, censor was the right word, but censorship tends to have a broad meaning, such as described by NSXBill.

Bill, MC definitely has the right to do as it saw fit. As for clear channel, they had every right to make that decision. I don't listen to clear channel stations, not because of any political reasons, but simply because its the same garbage music over and over. Most radio is like this. Maybe it always has been. But ever since they got the green light to buy up more and more radio stations per market, it's gotten to the point where I won't even turn it on (with sitting in silence as the alternative). Makes it harder and harder for new artists to break into the business. Plus, you have to tour for clear channel or they don't play your record. Of course, it's their prerogotive.

As for Stern, I'm a listener. If I didn't like him, I wouldn't tune in. I don't have kids, so I don't worry about them listening to him, as it is clearly not appropriate for younger listeners. I've got an idea for a radio v-chip, which could help parents who don't want their children listening to that type of programming, but haven't gotten it worked out yet. Basically, it's a programmable FM modulator like you use with CD Changers, only it can be programmed for multiple stations, and puts out static so they don't come in in that car. It's a simple concept that would help a lot of people out. If I don't get to it, somebody should so those who would like to listen can, and those who shouldn't be permitted to listen, i.e., children, cannot.

Oh, and I think it's that Canada won't broadcast Howard Stern, right?

Okay, I'm worn out. But I like the discussion. You're not pissing me off at all. I'm just glad the thread hasn't been deleted yet.


07-23-2004, 04:10 PM
...And it's O.K. not to agree on everything...
:banana: :banana: :banana:

OK, just wanted to post dancing bananas too!!!

07-23-2004, 04:14 PM
Andre--You my boy BLUE!! LMAO

"Old School"

east tx skier
07-23-2004, 04:15 PM
Brian, just think, if Andre was from Spain, we could call him ...


"Old School"

07-23-2004, 04:17 PM
Ain't that the truth. Well you know Andre is really old like Blue was in the movie. I mean I think Andre is so old he's really retired and on PERMANENT vacation. :D

Just pulling your leg Andre, don't let us young whipper snappers mess with ya even if we can pull longer sets! :uglyhamme

07-23-2004, 04:19 PM

(No more scratching head emotion)

153 passes in the courses in the last 7 days... :woohoo:

07-23-2004, 04:20 PM
What do you mean confused? You just turned the big 60 right!? ;) 0

07-23-2004, 04:23 PM
Confused about "Spanish" :confused:

07-23-2004, 04:46 PM
Watch the movie old school you 40 year older you!

07-23-2004, 04:54 PM
Seen that movie and don't remember all the references you guys keep writing about...I guess i should see it again... :popcorn:
Can't find "Used Cars" anywhere.

07-23-2004, 05:18 PM
Maybe next time don't post the name in the THREAD TITLE. Use of a little descretion will go much further. Come on guys, this is a MC site. Comparisons are good but a trend was starting. After the Malibu thread, we saw the 196 come up in the title. What was next. The comparison was never a direct comparison in the beginning. I agree the 205 vs 196 vs RXLI is not a fair comparison. My .02 cents. Doug, I know you can't seem to locate a 197 to see or ski behind (that's sad really). If you are ever in Orlando, let me know. I am on a private lake with a course. The boat is AWESOME. Will you sign a release waiver? ;)

07-23-2004, 05:23 PM
Brian- Nathalie is Andre's girlfriend(or wife) and "Not often" is her response to him saying "French men do it better". Sounds like she's complaining about the frequency, eh? Am I right, Andre'?

Doug- you're definitely right about Clear Channel- they go into a market, take it over and kill everyone else. Then they make money from their artists, radio ads, concert venues, ticket sales, ticket surcharges, concessions, and advertising for the shows. All from one show. And this isn't monopolistic? MY BUTT! That's the reason I listen to a local college radio station, and have since they expanded beyond the range of the dorms in '81. The music I like is rarely going to be a hit and I don't care. They are online if you want to check them out at www.wmse.org and their shows are archived for a year. The on-air people are volunteers and sound like it, but they play a lot of great music.

07-23-2004, 05:31 PM
You're right on again...Just a loose belt though.I will tighten things up tonigh!Will let you know how she rides at W.O.T. tomorrow... :uglyhamme

07-23-2004, 06:07 PM
Well, their is no talk like that around here. Carla, looks like she has an over inflated basketball in her abdomen at the moment. So... :friday:

07-23-2004, 06:21 PM
Oh, I get it Andre:eek: Is that any way for a French man to talk

lakes Rick
07-23-2004, 06:32 PM
He's HERE.....

07-23-2004, 06:39 PM
Oh boy here we go:banana: !!

I just know we are going to be sorry:cry:

east tx skier
07-23-2004, 07:12 PM
.197, ya should've caught me earlier. I'm all talked out on this subject, but will say that it doesn't hurt MC that I skied behind a 196 when I bought a MC. I can only compare what I know. So until I get the opportunity to ski a newer MC, I'll just have to draw what comparisons as I'm able. I appreciate the offer on the pull. The same goes for you if you're ever in my neck of the woods.

This will be the last thing I say on the subject. It's a good thing for MC that people like me, and others, are so enthusiastic about our old boats. If we, and others were not so interested in buying them used, preserving them, and discussing them ad nauseum, MC would have a lot harder time selling new boats for upwards of $40K.

Man, I feel better after a couple of beers! :toast:

Jim, I'm only slightly out of range of a half-way decent college station. That's all that's left. Well, that and FM Talk. I just stick to CDs. Even college radio doesn't often get around to my playlist. I'll check the link next week.

Have a great weekend everyone.

07-23-2004, 09:20 PM
I have nothing more to say regarding the subject.
I think we all got it out of our system.
I will probably keep my 93 S&S for many years.
Great job on the new site TT!

07-23-2004, 09:37 PM
I hope the gas filling issue will be resolved. I am confidant that MC will find a fix and assure the safety of their customers.

07-23-2004, 09:56 PM
Mark, ya think?

07-23-2004, 10:27 PM
Re: the gas fill issue- have you noticed that the boats that don't seem to have the problem have the tank below the floor? I only remember seeing ProStars with this problem, right? The V drives have it below the floor and I don't remember having the gas spewing out, so I think it may have to do with the length and of the filler neck and how high it is above the tank.

07-24-2004, 01:43 AM

Yup, it can only go down hill from here..
I’m just going to sit back and watch what happens,,:popcorn: .

07-24-2004, 01:45 AM
Hey, Damnit, our popcorn guy is broken!! What gives??

07-24-2004, 11:18 AM
I just wanted to mention that there is a recall on the 03 Malibu monsoon 335 engine due to a very serious fuel leak. According to their post's, one owner's bilge filled with gas and activated the pump discharging into the lake. (SCARE ME!)
Just the mention of fuel followed by leak or spill!
I would consider the problem with the 197 minor compared to this but perhaps not as easy to fix. I'm not speaking from experience since I do not own a 197, but from reading the post's.
I hope MC finds a solution for the fill problem.
I also want to commend MC for incorporating Six Sigma to their process. Most companies utilizing six sigma rate safety just as, if not more important than quality.

03-06-2009, 07:29 PM
Just had to bump this.

What a crew...

Doug, you remember who ignited this controversy? He called us out and we all flamed him!! To funny...

How about Lakes Rick...whatever happened to him. That guy cracked me up. He and JimN would have me in stiches.

03-07-2009, 07:26 AM
Good times gentlemens.
Those were good times...:rolleyes:

03-07-2009, 07:30 AM
Good morning Andre.

03-07-2009, 07:40 AM
Good morning all.

03-07-2009, 08:27 AM
Good times gentlemens.
Those were good times...:rolleyes:

Why'd it change so much? (Iknow it has. I wish I was around back then)

03-07-2009, 09:02 AM
Back then membership on the board was far less. While there weren't as many 'rules,' most people were a little more adult about things. Some personalities came and went. Then we had an influx of new folks who migrated to another private board.

I guess the bottom line is with people coming and going it created a new social dynamic. But I will say, back then the board was a lot tighter.

east tx skier
03-07-2009, 07:20 PM
Good times indeed. And of course I remember the source. He's a good friend of mine.

03-07-2009, 09:30 PM
Just had to bump this.

What a crew...

Doug, you remember who ignited this controversy? He called us out and we all flamed him!! To funny...

How about Lakes Rick...whatever happened to him. That guy cracked me up. He and JimN would have me in stiches.

Why does that look like I left? Sure doesn't seem like almost 5 years since that whole thing happened.