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planoboy
05-21-2005, 07:01 PM
Any comments, help, appreciated.
94 225VRS, 350 TBI. 165 hrs, owned 1yr.
If the fuel pump whine does not come on when turning on the key, what do you think, pump or relay, other?
Ran fine for hours, shut down, no start, no fuel pump whine, engine turns over, kill switch ok, depressed main circuit reset button, all gauges ok, (except fuel gauge). :o
It has been run out of gas at least twice in the yr. In fact when going to test drive it the seller was out on the lake out of gas. I ran it out once, and maybe last night too :confused: I searched tmcowners and read running out of gas can ruin fuel pumps. New ones on skidim, $280.
I am going out there now to check, all fuses, relays and pump for juice w/ mulitester.
Thank You,
Plano

spent couple hours on the lake stranded last night, boat and me on one side, truck and trailer on the other :( . Got the boat to bed by 4am. :eek:

André
05-21-2005, 08:35 PM
Have you tried resetting the ignition breaker on the dash ?
Just a guess.Mine tripped on my 94 same engine,it happenned when i accidently (I think) bump the fuel relays when replacing engine cover.There was rust on the connectors,cleaned and a shot of electrical silicone and it never happened again.
Good luck!

peason
05-21-2005, 08:50 PM
I would also check the fuel filter -running a gas tank dry may have "stirred" up som gas with particles in it.

SkySkiSpokane
05-21-2005, 08:57 PM
That fuel pump is real picky. It burns up quick when it runs out of gas. I burned mine up the first time it happened. That is also when I found out the fuel guage wasn't working. My guess is that pump from experience. :twocents:

Engine Nut
05-21-2005, 09:53 PM
Any comments, help, appreciated.
94 225VRS, 350 TBI. 165 hrs, owned 1yr.
If the fuel pump whine does not come on when turning on the key, what do you think, pump or relay, other?
Ran fine for hours, shut down, no start, no fuel pump whine, engine turns over, kill switch ok, depressed main circuit reset button, all gauges ok, (except fuel gauge). :o
It has been run out of gas at least twice in the yr. In fact when going to test drive it the seller was out on the lake out of gas. I ran it out once, and maybe last night too :confused: I searched tmcowners and read running out of gas can ruin fuel pumps. New ones on skidim, $280.
I am going out there now to check, all fuses, relays and pump for juice w/ mulitester.
Thank You,
Plano

spent couple hours on the lake stranded last night, boat and me on one side, truck and trailer on the other :( . Got the boat to bed by 4am. :eek:

Check out the electrical circuit on the attached diagram. Listen for or feel the relay click on then off when you turn the key switch on. If the relay activates, check for 12V ascross the fuel pump leads for 2-3 seconds when the key switch it turned on. If you get 12 V at the pump but the pump does not run, you probably have a bad pump.

If the relay does not activete, look for 12 Volts for 2-3 seconds at pin 85 of the fuel pump relay when you turn the key switch on. If no 12V at pin 85, the ECM fuel pump driver is bad and the ECM will need to be replaced.

Ebgine Nut

lakes Rick
05-21-2005, 10:26 PM
That fuel pump is real picky. It burns up quick when it runs out of gas. I burned mine up the first time it happened. That is also when I found out the fuel guage wasn't working. My guess is that pump from experience. :twocents:

I am going to test mine this year.. I believe the bad sending units have caused most of these failures due to running out of gas.. I have heard the same thing about them burning up easily if run without gas... "But the gas gauge says there is gas"......

planoboy
05-23-2005, 11:23 AM
many thanks to the board and Engine Nut for the valuable info.
Looks like the least costly resolution...fuel pump relay, bosch#12077864 B00.
No click, or sound from the relay, not activating.
had ~2V @ fuel pump, 12V @ pin 85.
Will post again after installing new relay.
thx again,
Plano

planoboy
05-23-2005, 11:48 PM
well, I was seeing things. .12 volts at pin#85 on the digital multi-tester. installed the new relay, it she no workie, guess the problem is the ECM. I will post again after I get it fixed. thanks again for the help.
I do not have any manuals other than the downloadable indmar owners manual showing this image...

I do not have the extra 2 fuse package and I have 10,10,15 amp fuses where the schematic states only one 10 amp fuse.
Engine nut, sorry to keep asking questions but can you identify the 3 fuses as, emc/bat, inj/emc, and fuel pump? If so, someone put a 10 amp in for the emc/bat?
also, I gotta wonder if upping the temp w/ the 160 thermostat hastend the demise of the ECM? See this post...
http://www.tmcowners.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?p=51749#post51749

6ballsisall
05-23-2005, 11:49 PM
Any comments, help, appreciated.
94 225VRS, 350 TBI. 165 hrs, owned 1yr.
If the fuel pump whine does not come on when turning on the key, what do you think, pump or relay, other?
Ran fine for hours, shut down, no start, no fuel pump whine, engine turns over, kill switch ok, depressed main circuit reset button, all gauges ok, (except fuel gauge). :o
It has been run out of gas at least twice in the yr. In fact when going to test drive it the seller was out on the lake out of gas. I ran it out once, and maybe last night too :confused: I searched tmcowners and read running out of gas can ruin fuel pumps. New ones on skidim, $280.
I am going out there now to check, all fuses, relays and pump for juice w/ mulitester.
Thank You,
Plano

spent couple hours on the lake stranded last night, boat and me on one side, truck and trailer on the other :( . Got the boat to bed by 4am. :eek:

Man thats a bummer! Sorry to hear of your troubles!

bret
05-24-2005, 12:04 AM
check the fuel pump pins with your meter, see if they have shorted.

JimN
05-24-2005, 12:30 AM
planoboy- going to a 160 degree thermostat won't have any effect on the ECM, other than possibly making it think the operating temperature is higher, which it would be. It won't make the ECM fail. By the way, the ECM fuse is 15A.

What do your gauges show? If you don't see voltage with the key on, I would suspect the lanyard. Pin 85 gets 12V when the ECM sends it, pin 86 provides ground. If the ECM was bad, you wouldn't see voltage on pin 85. The ones you really want to check are pins 30, which sends 12V through the fuel pump relay fuse and pin 87, which sends 12V to the pump. If you don't see anything on these, seeing 12V on pin 85 doesn't matter in anything other than knowing if the ECM sends the voltage when it should. Probe pin 85 with the key off and check for 0Vdc. Turn the key on and you should see it go to 12Vdc for 2 seconds. If this happens, make sure the plug on the pump is engaged fully. Also, go to the rear of the motor and look for the ground wires. Wiggle these and see if there are any loose ones, or any that have come off.

Again, if you have 12V on pin 85, the ECM is sending the desired signal to the relay. If pins 30(input to the relay) and 87(relay output to the pump) show nothing, don't blame the ECM. You will also blow a lot of money on replacing a good part and still not have a running motor. You need to test the pump independent of the motor in order to find out if it's good.

You could have a bad pickup coil or Ignition Control Module, too. The ECM needs to see the signal from this in order to tell the fuel pump to operate. Set your meter to DC volts, attach the + lead to the purple/white wire coming out of the distributor, ground the black lead and crank the motor. You should see a 1V-2V DC signal. If you see nothing at all, suspect the distributor/IC module/pickup coil.

Thrall
05-24-2005, 01:27 PM
planoboy,
I had a similar problem last yr w/my boat. I have wiring diagrams (scanned) and diagnostic procedures. I can email them to you. No access to them right now.
Jim and Engine Nut's procedures are correct.
send me an email if you need them. tthershberger@pcl.com

planoboy
05-26-2005, 01:40 AM
thx again fellas, but not looking good here...
Gauges, Voltage looks good, Fuel Full (as usual)
Uninstalled lanyard and jumped across leads.
12V to All fuses
No voltage pin 85
12V pin 30 and 87 (both relays)
No relay click when turning on key
jump pin 30 to fuel pump = fuel pump powers up for prime
Pump plug engaged
Grounds good
12V ECM goesinto connector 1st pins, left side, top/bottom, facing.
Have not tested the coil or ICM but will b4 proceeding w/ the KY lube.
Dealer wants to pull codes, sounds like a good idea, then if we have to, pull ECM and take boat back home. Indmar will diagnose the ECM for a nominal charge plus shipping.
Believe me I do not want to replace that ECM. Dam thing is about 3 boat payments! :eek:

JimN
05-26-2005, 08:18 AM
I still need to ask- was the Ref High output checked? If there's nothing from this lead, the ECM will not trigger the pump relay. I would do this before removing the ECM. I would also disconnect the battery for about 5 minutes to reset, then connect the diagnostic computer and look at the battery voltage screen and manually trigger the fuel pump.

Also, look at the ECM ground wires on the connector (pins J1-14 and J1-30), then do a continuity check on J2-9 (Dk grn/wht) fuel pump relay drive wire.

planoboy
06-01-2005, 12:18 PM
Checked 1V-2V DC signal at purple/white wire coming out of the distributor while cranking, OK. Took it to Dealer to pull codes, no codes. Send ECM to Indmar for diagnosis. Sat out first Memorial Day weekend as a MC owner. Lotta rain anyway.
thx all.

planoboy
06-05-2005, 02:00 PM
Got ECM back from Indmar. Everything is working as it should now.
Thx to Texas MC for facilitating, and big thx to Indmar for the support, service and quick turnaround.
Gotta love this board and it's members.
Regards,
Plano

JimN
06-05-2005, 02:07 PM
Did they say what the ECM needed?