Ported or sealed?

[KnoxX2]

OK so I am thinking of adding a sub under the observer seat. The question is what type of Sub Bok is better? Ported? OR Sealed?

Background: I listen to all types of music! I am looking to get better sounding base than the stock free air JL 10". I will be using a 10" Bazooka EL sub. (I know I know but I already own it, so no new money spent on sub)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes::D

[SteveO]

I had a sealed JL in the area behind the driver seat firing through the factory hole. I used it because it was a carry over from my 209 in which space was a premium. It was better that the factory free air, but was sometimes distorted. My boat got hit by some POS that decided he like my gear and it stole it along with my head unit. I replaced it with at JL 10W6 in a ported box and added a stand alone 500w JL sub amp and all I can say is WOW. The thing hits hard, is tight and rattles the tower. I am not sure if a 12 or larger under the observer seat would provide any additional bass and it certainly would eat away storage. A ported 10 when done right will rattle your ba11s.:D

[KnoxX2]

SteveO Did you port it out the side of walkway.....IE cut a hole in the boat or just a ported bok under the seat?

[SteveO]

Had a custom grill made to replace the factory speaker and put the box under the wrap around seat on the driver side. The speaker and the port face towards the hole left by the factory speaker. Thump, thump , thump. I have the jl1700 on the sub, 300/2 on my 770 bullets and a 6450 (previously used 2 channels on the sub) on the interior speakers.

[KnoxX2]

Just wondering how much did the box cost to make?

[SteveO]

I think it was around 200 for the box w/o sub. It was more than it should have been but boy was it worth every penny. That is Dallas money, so surely the TN hillbillys could help a brother out, lol.

[KnoxX2]

LOL Thanks

[JimN]

OK so I am thinking of adding a sub under the observer seat. The question is what type of Sub Bok is better? Ported? OR Sealed?

Background: I listen to all types of music! I am looking to get better sounding base than the stock free air JL 10". I will be using a 10" Bazooka EL sub. (I know I know but I already own it, so no new money spent on sub)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes::D

The woofer determines the box. Regardless of whether it's made for sealed or ported, it won't sound its best in the box it's not made for.

[RWB_XSTAR]

I listen to all types of music...and for that typically a sealed box is better for the response and it will require less space. I however will be putting a ported 12' in mine very soon, I have the space and it is louder for the party times!

I'm going to custom make it under the drivers footwell where the removable pannel is on the XSTARs, which I assume is similar for the X2's.

[KnoxX2]

How do I find out what the sub will work best in?

[brucemac]

jim's got a good point. the sub determines the box.

with that said, PORTED! :D

just kidding

KnoxX2 find the manual online for your bazooka and see what they recommended. Many manufacturer's will give box dimensions for both sealed and ported in their manual/installation instructions. many will have specs for both sealed or ported or sometimes one and not the other depending on the sub. Jim's absolutely right, you could have the best sub in the world, but if it's in a box that doesn't meet manufacturer's suggestions, it won't sound worth a crap.

[KnoxX2]

Looked it up and it gives both:

Ported - 1.6 CU Ft

Sealed - 0.56 CU Ft

[JimN]

How do I find out what the sub will work best in?

Call Bazooka- they have all of the specs/parameters for that driver. If it came in a tube with a port, it's best for a ported box but any box and port need to be tuned correctly in order to get the best sound. Also, if the port is tuned too low, the power handling goes out the window. Think of a port as blowing across the mouth of a bottle. It does one note and that's all. The reason for using a port is that by tuning it to a note that's lower than the woofer would be able to do in a sealed box, done correctly, it complements the woofer's response but as I said, it needs to be tuned correctly.

I'm sorry- never mind! (Emily Litella)

You posted the box size while I was writing.

If the 1.6 ft³ is a good size, make sure you do the port exactly as they recommend. If they list a bunch of numbers with Qts, Qes, Qms, Vas, Re, Le, Sd and about 20 others, post them- I have some box design programs and I can post the modeled response curves with port dimensions. Also, if they listed these and you know how much space is available, post that, too- I can enter the size and get a response curve.

[brucemac]

1.6 is a big box. :)

.56 is nothing.

are you dead set on that bazooka?

[KnoxX2]

Thanks Jim

I had this sub in a sealed box in a car that I sold last year and the sub is just sitting around.

[KnoxX2]

1.6 is a big box. :)

.56 is nothing.

are you dead set on that bazooka?

No not Dead set on it ................ but just trying to save some money if I can:rolleyes::)

[JimN]

One thing to remember- the recommended box size is without the volume used by the woofer, so you need to add approximately 20% for a sealed box and 15% for a ported box.

1.6L with 15% added comes to 16" x 18" x 12.42" internal dimensions.

[JimN]

Thanks Jim

I had this sub in a sealed box in a car that I sold last year and the sub is just sitting around.

Can you use the same box in the boat?

[KnoxX2]

No I can't!!!!! I had 2 10"s in a box and traded on for a Spare MC rim for my trailer!!!

[KnoxX2]

I am just looking for more bass than I get from the factory JL

[JimN]

I am just looking for more bass than I get from the factory JL

Have you contacted JL to find out of you can build a box for that one? Or, post the model of the JL woofer and I can model it since most of their woofers are in the database.

[Loffgren]

Ported....

[wakeX2wake]

knox... the way i understand it and from what i've heard...

a ported box will "hit" harder but a sealed box will give you a wider range of sound...


i've always had good service from sealed boxes when listening to a variety of music... but if you want to beat the block down go w/ a ported...

[east tx skier]

I had a sealed JL in the area behind the driver seat firing through the factory hole. I used it because it was a carry over from my 209 in which space was a premium. It was better that the factory free air, but was sometimes distorted. My boat got hit by some POS that decided he like my gear and it stole it along with my head unit. I replaced it with at JL 10W6 in a ported box and added a stand alone 500w JL sub amp and all I can say is WOW. The thing hits hard, is tight and rattles the tower. I am not sure if a 12 or larger under the observer seat would provide any additional bass and it certainly would eat away storage. A ported 10 when done right will rattle your ba11s.:D

I'm sorry I'm going to miss hearing that. Maybe this fall.

[craig3972]

A sealed box will give a faster responding subwoofer - a ported box will respond slower.
The ported box will develop more volume with less power


The Factory 10" JL sub in a sealed box has great perfornmace with the right power.

4 stereo posts on the first page ... how can you tell its spring.

Just a thought but maybe we could have a stereo section so all these questions dont have to be re-answered every spring

[wakeX2wake]

Just a thought but maybe we could have a stereo section so all these questions dont have to be re-answered every spring

and where's the fun in that?... hang on... where did i put my teak sealer?

[Loffgren]

"but if you want to beat the block down"

I must admit I do. :)

[craig3972]

and where's the fun in that?... hang on... where did i put my teak sealer?

its right beside the left handed screwdriver and the checkered paint!

[wakeX2wake]

its right beside the left handed screwdriver and the checkered paint!

good lookin' out.. i've been looking for that left handed screw driver... gotta have it to check my muffler fliud

[JimN]

Wanting to annoy everyone on your path doesn't matter to a speaker that's designed to be in one kind of box, when it's installed in the wrong type. It will do what it's physically capable of, so the box absolutely has to be designed around the speaker's parameters. The speaker doesn't give a rat's butt about what someone wants it to do with it- it'll do what it can with the supplied signal and nothing more.

Just hauling off and saying it needs a ported box without anything to back it up, doesn't help. Sure, sometimes a lucky guess works but more often than not, the speaker dies an early, tortured death and then we have to do this all over again.

Let's deal with facts, let's see the parameters and then we can come up with a correctly designed box.

Now, where did I put my electric hammer?

[Loffgren]

I could annoy every one better at 32HZ vs 44Hz... I guess theres my facts (for my particular sub)

PORTED ENCLOSURE:
Recommended Net Volume: 1.75 cu. ft. (51.54 ltrs.)
Recommended Port Tuning: 32 Hz
Port Type: “Slot” ports are recommended. See information above.
The port recommendations listed above are derived through actual
tests and measurements (not computer simulations).
Front Baffle Thickness: 1 in. (25 mm)
Wall Thickness: 0.75 in. (19 mm)
Net volumes given below do not include the air volume displaced by
the speaker (Driver Displacement). This value must be added to the
net volume along with the displacement of any braces and/or ports (if
applicable) to arrive at a gross internal volume. Air inside a port is not part
of the effective net volume. Calculate ports as solid, not hollow objects.
The dimensions given for the enclosure examples below take all applicable
displacements into consideration.

SEALED ENCLOSURE:
Recommended Net Volume: 1.375 cu. ft. (38.94 ltrs.)
Fc: 44.7 Hz F3: 40.4 Hz Qtc: 0.792
Front Baffle Thickness: 1 in. (25 mm)
Wall Thickness: 0.75 in. (19 mm)


(politley)

[JimN]

I thought this thread was to find out what would work for Knox's boat, with the woofer he has. Hmmm.

"The dimensions given for the enclosure examples below take all applicable
displacements into consideration"

For which woofer?

[craig3972]

Now, where did I put my electric hammer?

I think i saw Homer Simpson with one... it looked pretty good!

[KnoxX2]

Have you contacted JL to find out of you can build a box for that one? Or, post the model of the JL woofer and I can model it since most of their woofers are in the database.

Not sure what Sub they used in the 06 X2. But I think it is a free-air sub. You bring up a good point though ........ I wonder if the stock JL would work better than the Bazooka if it were in the right box...:rolleyes:

I will try and find the Sub on line...... If anyone want to help me find out what model it is that would be very cool!!!! Just sayin!:D

[KnoxX2]

Ok I think I found it.

JL Audio Marine Grade Subwoofer M101B5

Engineered from the ground up as a marine platform, the M10IB5 subwoofer delivers the kind of bass that has made JL Audio famous in the automotive sound arena. This is bass that will impress you, not only with its sheer level, but even more with its smoothness, balance and precision.

The M10IB5 is optimized for infinite-baffle operation so that it can be installed in a variety of locations, without the need for a dedicated enclosure, and is built like a tank to withstand the rigors of marine use.

[KnoxX2]

Some more info.......................

10" 4-ohm marine subwoofer
injection-molded mica-filled polypropylene woofer with synthetic rubber surround
Centrex polymer basket and grille, with stainless steel back plate
gold-plated, marine-grade brass binding posts
marine-grade synthetic fiber spider
power range: 50-250 watts RMS (500 watts peak power)
sensitivity: 86.7 dB
top-mount depth: 5-7/8"
sealed box volume: 0.875 cu.ft
ported box volume: 1.25 cu.ft.
warranty: 2 years

[brucemac]

i found different specs, but i've had a rita
http://www.bethel-marine.com/JLAUDIO_M101B5-4.htm

says optimum sealed box 2 cubic feet, maybe it's not the same part# as you posted...

[KnoxX2]

Could be that I posted the specs on the JL M10W5-CG-WH

[brucemac]

your x-2 is an 07?

[KnoxX2]

It's a 06 with a 07 tower and other options......(long story)

[brucemac]

did you grab that part# off the sub itself? do you need an amp?

[KnoxX2]

No I looked it up "Google"

I have a mono sub amp that bridged it will run 300watts RMS

[JimN]

Not sure what Sub they used in the 06 X2. But I think it is a free-air sub. You bring up a good point though ........ I wonder if the stock JL would work better than the Bazooka if it were in the right box...:rolleyes:

I will try and find the Sub on line...... If anyone want to help me find out what model it is that would be very cool!!!! Just sayin!:D

I thought someone posted before about calling JL and getting the specs or a recommended box size. If you look at the magnet, it'll have the model number and as I posted, if I know the model and parameters, I can model it. The software is very accurate.

[brucemac]

yeah knox get the part# and jim can help you out. i have a d class sub amp, i could send you, but it's nothing special and it's not much more than you have now. i think it's 350 boat off, 500'ish on.

[JimN]

This link is from JL's site and shows the minimum sealed enclosure volume, as well as the optimum. Make sure you look at the power range for one subwoofer driver, shown at the bottom of the page.

http://marine.jlaudio.com/products_subs.php?prod_id=440

If you can't possibly fit a 2 ft³ box, look into using an aperiodic vent. It lets you use a box of approximately 20% less volume to get the same response. They're cheap, too.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1323

[brucemac]

2 cubic feet is big. my opinion, find a new sub. not ditching on JL, but infinite baffle isn't the best choice imo. and neither is the bazooka. no offense. wish i had something i could help you out with. hope all is well and best wishes to your family knox.

[JimN]

2 cubic feet is big. my opinion, find a new sub. not ditching on JL, but infinite baffle isn't the best choice imo. and neither is the bazooka. no offense. wish i had something i could help you out with. hope all is well and best wishes to your family knox.

2 ft³ is optimum but the minimum is 1.25ft³ and if the aperiodic vent is used, another 20% could come off but I would go with the minimum and use the vent to make it act like the box is larger.

[JimN]

I have some 10" subs that a friend and I are testing but we haven't sacrificed one yet, to find out what it takes to kill it. I built a sealed box for one and am using it now- it only has about 20 hours, so I need to re-test it to find out how much the parameters have changed. The software showed that about .5ft³ is good but I made the first box closer to 1ft³. So far, I can't think of any reason to not like it. It hits pretty well and goes pretty low but I haven't analyzed it yet. No point in measuring until it breaks in. We bought 10 of them, initially and if they're as good with power handling, we'll get more. They're not JL but it's not bad at all for a reasonable price.

[brucemac]

agreed. if he does the work himself on the box he could save some money and make it work. however, if that were my boat, i'd live with it and keep saving for a different sub that was designed for a smaller box, sealed or ported. i'm not debating whether he could use what he has, i'm just saying his boat is NICE and i wouldn't want to cut a vent to use on a middle of the road sub that utlitimately may disappoint.

/edit

if it's one thing i've learned. you always want more. at least me. i'm still learning that lesson and it's cost me a lot of money in both boats and audio equipment.

[KnoxX2]

Ok so lets say I scrap both...................

Now what?
Where should I put the sub?
What would be a good value sub?
Where could I get the box? Remeber I live in Scumter (Sumter) SC!!!!!!!!!!

[KnoxX2]

agreed. if he does the work himself on the box he could save some money and make it work. however, if that were my boat, i'd live with it and keep saving for a different sub that was designed for a smaller box, sealed or ported. i'm not debating whether he could use what he has, i'm just saying his boat is NICE and i wouldn't want to cut a vent to use on a middle of the road sub that utlitimately may disappoint.

/edit

if it's one thing i've learned. you always want more. at least me. i'm still learning that lesson and it's cost me a lot of money in both boats and audio equipment.

Yes you are very right:rolleyes:
This is a lesson I am learning fast!!!!!

[VOLFAN]

In my old boat I put the sub under the glove box area. Let me kow if ya need a amp I have a couple of them.

[KnoxX2]

Thanks Matt!

I will let you know what we come up with and If I will need to replace the amp!


How you been?

[VOLFAN]

been good...sittin on the beach wishing the rain would stop. was a bad idea to come here, ut the wallet likes it here better. Cheap place to stay always wins...

Looking forward to seeing ya at CSM. You planning on finishing this project by then?

[KnoxX2]

I would like too!

You looking at a boat this weekend?

[brucemac]

lucky buggers. i wish i lived closer to home base. maybe someday i can fly out there and tear it up. wish we had those types of events here.

[KnoxX2]

Any time you want to come we have a place to stay and a spot in the boat! H@ll make the trip this year for CSM..............................Fly Southwest!!!!!!!!!!!

[brucemac]

i appreciate that. thanks. i wish i could. with both of us working it's super tough with the little ones. someday for sure. that is a fact. i'll warn you now though, i'm polite, but i can party. :D must be the mc in the mac. ;)

[KnoxX2]

Trust me at CSM we all like to Party!!!! We even had #1 partying last year!!!!

[VOLFAN]

The events are vwry addictive. The guys on here are even more fun in person to hang out with! Last year was my first time at CSM and MM and after they end I am lokking forward to the next year! Get a pass for a coupl days and fly on into Charlotte.

[VOLFAN]

yeah we looked... I am sorta in the same boat as you now thinking about adding a sub. The factory open air JL Audio sub doesn't seem to be enough boom.

[KnoxX2]

Let me know what you come up with!!!!!

I just don't know what to do about the Sub!

[brucemac]

knox this won't set you back that much
http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/products.php?Family_Id=3&Product_Id=15

http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/manuals/iDQ/iDQ%2010%20D2%20V.3.pdf

that's mine now 600W ported 1.25 net. had a JL 10w3v2 in my last boat sealed in front of about 225-250W RMS. it was great.

here's my next one but it's going to cost an alternator.

http://www.wetsounds.com/pages/products/XS-XXX.html

slot ported, 1000W...ka-BOOM!

[Footin]

How bout a Spark-O-Matic or Jensen sub?

[scott023]

OK, this may be a slight thread jack... BUT, what are the boards thoughts on the stock stereo system? Is it something I should be prepared to upgrade? I opted for the four tower speakers. I look for good sound quality everytime over how loud it can go (hate distortion). Will it be necessary to add a secong amp/sub so the rider can listen to the tunes and not just hear them?

[KnoxX2]

I would say that the JL stock speakers are good. But if you want very clean sound then you need to upgrade to the Wetsounds system. I got a chance to listen to a set of Pro 80" and a set of Pro 60"s at Carolina Mastercraft the other day and all I can say is wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are very clear and clean. Wish I had the extra cash!!!!!

[scott023]

I would say that the JL stock speakers are good. But if you want very clean sound then you need to upgrade to the Wetsounds system. I got a chance to listen to a set of Pro 80" and a set of Pro 60"s at Carolina Mastercraft the other day and all I can say is wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are very clear and clean. Wish I had the extra cash!!!!!

How much of an upgrade are we talking here? Is the Wetsounds a complete system, or just tower speakers?

[brucemac]

Wetsounds has just about everything you need. It's not inexpensive, but it's quite a bit less than the stock JL gear pound for pound. $999 for a pair of Pro80's. A little more I think for the MC clamp adapters. 200W RMS recommended per each speaker. $349 for the WS420, which imo is necessary. I have a pair running off of channels 1-4 (bridged) on a Wetsounds Syn6 amp at 200W a piece and it's ridiculous. they're a little bright, but when add the 420, you have complete control over your entire system and it's easy to make it all sound good together. If it were me and I was buying a new boat, I'd probably lean towards buying it without any audio upgrades if possible.