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dino
02-24-2009, 11:44 AM
I just had some WetSound speakers and new amp installed, I want to have batteries that will hold up all day if I decide to sit around. Does anyone have some suggestions on which batteries to buy and avoid paying $400 per battery. Is there any batteries out there that are reasonably priced?

JimN
02-24-2009, 12:11 PM
Cheap and high capacity don't go together. Sitting and cranking the stereo all day will drop the voltage enough that most engines won't crank and if it does, it'll probably kill the starter because the current is so high. You need high Amp-Hour batteries and if you have amplifiers with high peak power that are loosely regulated, you'll suck the batteries dry is a short time. If you want to hang out in the boat on the water, you'll have to run it at speed for a while in order to recharge them- idle will not do it because at idle, the voltage isn't as high as at speed. If you continually recharge at a lower voltage, they won't charge to their max voltage. Also, numerous charge/discharge cycles will cause sulfate buildup at the bottom of the cells and once this happens, your capacity decreases drastically.

zberger
02-24-2009, 12:22 PM
Jim is right, though.. there are battery companies that make more affordable batteries, you will find them at Car Stereo shops and such. Stinger makes them for instance as well as a company named Kinetic (if they are still around)

The ideal setup is to isolate the starting battery from the stereo totally. Run everything (except maybe the power for the deck to maintain its switched ability from the ignition harness) off of your auxiliary battery bank.

To enhance the charging at idle and at speed you could upgrade to a higher amperage alternator (or add another one if possible but seeings 400 batteries aren't in your future, neither is this option)

At any rate, its just building a quality charging system that gets it done at the end of the day. No one likes it when the music dies. :)

kycat2007
02-24-2009, 01:17 PM
are those blue optimum batteries the best?

TX.X-30 fan
02-24-2009, 01:18 PM
Jim is right, though.. there are battery companies that make more affordable batteries, you will find them at Car Stereo shops and such. Stinger makes them for instance as well as a company named Kinetic (if they are still around)

The ideal setup is to isolate the starting battery from the stereo totally. Run everything (except maybe the power for the deck to maintain its switched ability from the ignition harness) off of your auxiliary battery bank.

To enhance the charging at idle and at speed you could upgrade to a higher amperage alternator (or add another one if possible but seeings 400 batteries aren't in your future, neither is this option)

At any rate, its just building a quality charging system that gets it done at the end of the day. No one likes it when the music dies. :)


I did all this its 100% accurate.


Jack rabbit marine has these systems. Bulletproof, 1,000 up front and then forget about it.

TX.X-30 fan
02-24-2009, 01:18 PM
kinetiks rock.

jdl xstar
02-24-2009, 02:23 PM
Cheap and high capacity don't go together. Sitting and cranking the stereo all day will drop the voltage enough that most engines won't crank and if it does, it'll probably kill the starter because the current is so high. You need high Amp-Hour batteries and if you have amplifiers with high peak power that are loosely regulated, you'll suck the batteries dry is a short time. If you want to hang out in the boat on the water, you'll have to run it at speed for a while in order to recharge them- idle will not do it because at idle, the voltage isn't as high as at speed. If you continually recharge at a lower voltage, they won't charge to their max voltage. Also, numerous charge/discharge cycles will cause sulfate buildup at the bottom of the cells and once this happens, your capacity decreases drastically.

How about when you are all tied in somewhere and you cant easily cruise around to get up to speed, is it ok to take it out of gear and run at a couple thousand rpms for a minute or so?

TallRedRider
02-24-2009, 02:49 PM
Cheap and high capacity don't go together. Sitting and cranking the stereo all day will drop the voltage enough that most engines won't crank and if it does, it'll probably kill the starter because the current is so high. You need high Amp-Hour batteries and if you have amplifiers with high peak power that are loosely regulated, you'll suck the batteries dry is a short time. If you want to hang out in the boat on the water, you'll have to run it at speed for a while in order to recharge them- idle will not do it because at idle, the voltage isn't as high as at speed. If you continually recharge at a lower voltage, they won't charge to their max voltage. Also, numerous charge/discharge cycles will cause sulfate buildup at the bottom of the cells and once this happens, your capacity decreases drastically.

This is not true with a high quality battery...like an Optima or Kinetik. They are made to be fully charged and discharged over and over.

are those blue optimum batteries the best?
One of the best, IMHO.

kinetiks rock.
Many feel they are the best....

How about when you are all tied in somewhere and you cant easily cruise around to get up to speed, is it ok to take it out of gear and run at a couple thousand rpms for a minute or so?
Yes, but that is not going to do enough for your batteries as far as giving enough charge to play the stereo for much time. The alternator is OK for charging your batts, but that is really not it's job. It mostly wants to keep them fully charged, not charge them from being fully dead.

The bottom line, IMO is you cannot do what you want for $400. I think the best you can do is get 2 golf cart batteries, line them up in series and use them for your stereo isolated from the starting battery. Buy a battery trickle charger, and use it when you get home each night. You should be able to get that done for under $400. It probably won't give you all day at high volume, but depending on your system, I bet you get a lot of play with that. :twocents:

JimN
02-24-2009, 03:26 PM
How about when you are all tied in somewhere and you cant easily cruise around to get up to speed, is it ok to take it out of gear and run at a couple thousand rpms for a minute or so?

Revving a motor with no load isn't the best way to get long life from it and a minute or two isn't enough to recharge it fully. You need to look at the discharge rate before knowing how much it will go down. If it's really a fast discharge, it means the battery's components will get hot, which reduces the life span. Recharging it too fast does the same thing- excessive heat.

JimN
02-24-2009, 03:31 PM
"This is not true with a high quality battery...like an Optima or Kinetik. They are made to be fully charged and discharged over and over."

Right, but fast discharge and recharge rates aren't part of how these are meant to be used. They're different but can still fail, which is what happened to a friend's battery in his S-10 Blazer and he never abuses it. He doesn't even have an aftermarket stereo in it.


"The alternator is OK for charging your batts, but that is really not it's job. It mostly wants to keep them fully charged, not charge them from being fully dead."

Exactly. The alternator runs the stock accessories and tops off the battery after starting. That's really all it's supposed to do.

"I think the best you can do is get 2 golf cart batteries, line them up in series and use them for your stereo isolated from the starting battery. Buy a battery trickle charger, and use it when you get home each night. You should be able to get that done for under $400. It probably won't give you all day at high volume, but depending on your system, I bet you get a lot of play with that."

I though golf cart batteries were at least 12V and sometimes 24V, Putting either in series will not make the 12V accessories happy.If you mean parallel, that would work but it's a lot of added weight.

JimN
02-24-2009, 03:33 PM
What we really need is to know exactly what the stereo includes, for components. If the amps are the marketing department ratings, it will be less of a problem to run the system for a long time.

I want to see the make and model of the head unit, amps and any other parts of the system. Only then can we determine what is needed.

zberger
02-24-2009, 04:40 PM
What we really need is to know exactly what the stereo includes, for components. If the amps are the marketing department ratings, it will be less of a problem to run the system for a long time.

I want to see the make and model of the head unit, amps and any other parts of the system. Only then can we determine what is needed.

ditto. also, which boat would help (though i dunno how much..)

dino
02-24-2009, 05:06 PM
I just ordered a Stinger 1700 and I'm going to use that strictly for my stereo and an interstate marine battery to start the boat. I tried to get out of it cheap, but apparently cheap and boating don't go together. My system pulls a lot of power, wetsounds 485 and two 60's on the tower, enclosed 12 wetsound sub and a free air 10, and the factory clarions in the boat. Thanks everyone for their responses.

dino
02-24-2009, 05:07 PM
Sorry, the amps are a 6 channel wetsounds and the two clarions that came factory.

JimN
02-24-2009, 05:49 PM
Sorry, the amps are a 6 channel wetsounds and the two clarions that came factory.

Now, since you'll have another battery and charging load, you'll need to use the proper cable for the stereo, protection for the cables to the stereo (breaker is my recommendation and Stinger sells them), isolation to keep the Stinger battery from drawing the cranking battery down and proper termination for the cables.

The power cabling needs to be sized for the maximum load + 50%, so you should list the amp model numbers or list the fuses on each amp. This part is important- don't skimp on it.

TX.X-30 fan
02-24-2009, 06:42 PM
What about the alternator, I have much more draw than you propose but you have much more than was intended for you stock alt.

I have a balmar 150 amp marine alt. and even at idle with the system on i can get 11.5 warning if I have been sitting for a while.

TX.X-30 fan
02-24-2009, 06:52 PM
The other concern if your looking for sound for extended swim/float times is there is still a draw even on the house battery with the acc. switch on. Once that house bat. gets to 11.5 the buzzer will sound and game over for the music. There are work-arounds for this.

brucemac
02-24-2009, 07:47 PM
There are work-arounds for this.

you mean like this? ;)

you mean, like wiring the HU directly to your aux battery right? that's what i'm doing.

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/6944/dscn2600small.jpg

TX.X-30 fan
02-24-2009, 08:53 PM
you mean like this? ;)

you mean, like wiring the HU directly to your aux battery right? that's what i'm doing.

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/6944/dscn2600small.jpg




That is one way to bypass the damn buzzer. I have an echo charger that keeps the starter battery full off the other two. But when the other two are toast after a few hours I can get the low volt buzzer at idle. Your way will allow you to kill the stereo batteries and have a full starter battery. Both still allow the boat to start after floating with the tunes.

jjledbetter
02-25-2009, 12:37 AM
THE ONE THING I DID WAS ADD A Tsunami COMPETITION Series Capacitor IN LINE TO THE AMPS THERE FOR HOLDING POWER FOR THE SUB AND NOT PULLING A LOAD ON YOUR HOUSE BATT.PURCHASED FROM CRUTCHFIELD FOR AROUND 350.00 ADDED ABOUT 3 TO 4 MORE HOURS OF ANCHORED TIME.

JimN
02-25-2009, 07:55 AM
A capacitor doesn't go in-line. Capacitors block DC voltage when placed in series and if it's placed before the second battery, it'll never charge properly. The positive terminal on the cap connects to the positive cable as close to the amp(s) as possible and the negative goes to the negative cable- if more than one amp is being used, a distribution block should be used for each and this is a good place to make these connections. Large capacitors are made to filter fluctuations in the DC voltage and act as a storage device but adding 3-4 hours of playing time is beyond what I have ever heard possible. If you want to see which is a better way to add storage, connect a light bulb to a cap and one to a battery that aren't connected to anything else and see which one goes out first. A cap is make for faster charge and discharge than a battery, too. That's why most of the large ones come with a resistor for the first charging cycle- if it's discharged when connected to a battery, it looks like a low resistance path to ground until it stores energy.

zberger
02-25-2009, 09:14 AM
THE ONE THING I DID WAS ADD A Tsunami COMPETITION Series Capacitor IN LINE TO THE AMPS THERE FOR HOLDING POWER FOR THE SUB AND NOT PULLING A LOAD ON YOUR HOUSE BATT.PURCHASED FROM CRUTCHFIELD FOR AROUND 350.00 ADDED ABOUT 3 TO 4 MORE HOURS OF ANCHORED TIME.

I've got some ocean front property in Arizona......................

jjledbetter
02-25-2009, 09:34 AM
Your Right About The Capacitor, And Yes It Does Have To Get Power From Somewhere Being Your Batt Or By Starting Your Engine But This Item Was Used For My Sub And From What The Installer At Cartronics Said Was Is Were Most Of My Power Was Being Pulled.and To Clarify 3to4 Hrs Was With Idle Time But Not Having To Run To Around The Lake To Charge. I Stand Corrected

JimN
02-25-2009, 09:40 AM
I've got some ocean front property in Arizona......................

Dude- that's a lake.

JohnE
02-25-2009, 09:44 AM
jj - Normal typing makes the posts easier to read. All caps and you are yelling. Caps on every word just tough to read.

JimN
02-25-2009, 09:47 AM
Your Right About The Capacitor, And Yes It Does Have To Get Power From Somewhere Being Your Batt Or By Starting Your Engine But This Item Was Used For My Sub And From What The Installer At Cartronics Said Was Is Were Most Of My Power Was Being Pulled.and To Clarify 3to4 Hrs Was With Idle Time But Not Having To Run To Around The Lake To Charge. I Stand Corrected

The battery can provide 800 CCA or more. Try to crank your motor with your capacitor. The battery is where the majority of the current/voltage comes from, the alternator tries to top everything off and the cap is for peak demand only. Look inside a stereo- you'll see filter caps, usually about 10,000uF or higher, especially if it's a powerful amp. Their function is exactly the same- to minimize "ripple" in the DC power supply voltage and that is all. High voltage applications don't need big caps because the voltage is already high and generally more stable but at low voltages, much more is needed to keep the current drawn from causing voltage drop.

JimN
02-25-2009, 09:48 AM
jj - Normal typing makes the posts easier to read. All caps and you are yelling. Caps on every word just tough to read.

:D WhInEr.:D

jjledbetter
02-25-2009, 10:11 AM
I hear ya.

jjledbetter
02-25-2009, 06:15 PM
After talking with installer and looking at a invoice they put 2 blue top optima battiers in place of the stock on the the house side and added the capacitor for the bazooka tubes he also said something about the batts in series(whatever that means) I was under the impression the capacitor was were my extended runtime came from.thank you 4 clearing this up for me.(my bad)

bobx1
02-25-2009, 06:35 PM
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=modeldetail&section=P2GG&modelname=EG5000&modelid=EG5000XK1A

Benefits
- can run home stereo equipment
- use on board fuel
- doubles as extra ballast

craig3972
02-25-2009, 06:48 PM
those little optima blue tops are only rated at about 55amphours.... small compared to the battery that comes with your boat from mastercraft.

JimN
02-25-2009, 06:52 PM
After talking with installer and looking at a invoice they put 2 blue top optima battiers in place of the stock on the the house side and added the capacitor for the bazooka tubes he also said something about the batts in series(whatever that means) I was under the impression the capacitor was were my extended runtime came from.thank you 4 clearing this up for me.(my bad)

The batteries must be in parallel- if they were in series, the voltage would increase but in parallel, the voltage stays the same and the current capacity adds. However he did it, if your voltmeter doesn't fly over to the right side and bend when you turn the key on, it should be OK.

zberger
02-26-2009, 09:41 AM
http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/modeldetail.aspx?page=modeldetail&section=P2GG&modelname=EG5000&modelid=EG5000XK1A

Benefits
- can run home stereo equipment
- use on board fuel
- doubles as extra ballast

and the sound drones out the sound you're trying to produce.. brilliant! :rolleyes:

Patrick Hardy
02-27-2009, 09:13 PM
Side ? at what point should you add another battery to the stereo equation ? addition of a 2nd amp to a system w/ 4 interior speakers and a subwoofer ? 6 speakers w/ 1 or 2 subs ? ect. ?