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View Full Version : ACME Props are great.


didierz
02-15-2009, 12:39 PM
Picked this 1727 up from Acme last week. The guys in the tech department are awesome. I spoke with him for almost a hour and he was a wealth of knowledge about props and anything boat driveline related. Prop is a 14x15.25 with .102 cup. I don't see this size at all the online stores so I got it direct from Acme. 14x20 OJ prop wasn't cutting it with over 2000 lbs of weight and being bent on the leading edges didn't help either. The Acme is a monster out the hole!

Jesus_Freak
02-16-2009, 01:05 PM
Picked this 1727 up from Acme last week. The guys in the tech department are awesome. I spoke with him for almost a hour and he was a wealth of knowledge about props and anything boat driveline related. Prop is a 14x15.25 with .102 cup. I don't see this size at all the online stores so I got it direct from Acme. 14x20 OJ prop wasn't cutting it with over 2000 lbs of weight and being bent on the leading edges didn't help either. The Acme is a monster out the hole!

Thanks for the info and welcome.

Few questions:

1. How wasn't it "cutting it"?
2. Are you comparing 15.25 pitch to a 20, i.e. is this a fair comparison?
3. Why were the leading edges bent?

didierz
02-16-2009, 01:41 PM
The 20 pitch had problems holding speed at surf speed and was bogging the motor when fully loaded up. I've got PP stargazer edition and I noticed for being so highly touted that it wouldn't hold speed very well. Turns out the motor was heavly loaded and at the wrong RPM for its power band and the lower pitch prop runs so much smoother that PP holds the speed much more accuratley. I quess apples to apples there not, but the differance is amazing. As far as being bent, our lakes are super low and I must have roughed it up somewhere. And its a 15.5 pitch I miss typed my first post and couldn't find the edit feature.

Jesus_Freak
02-17-2009, 12:43 PM
The 20 pitch had problems holding speed at surf speed and was bogging the motor when fully loaded up. I've got PP stargazer edition and I noticed for being so highly touted that it wouldn't hold speed very well. Turns out the motor was heavly loaded and at the wrong RPM for its power band and the lower pitch prop runs so much smoother that PP holds the speed much more accuratley. I quess apples to apples there not, but the differance is amazing. As far as being bent, our lakes are super low and I must have roughed it up somewhere. And its a 15.5 pitch I miss typed my first post and couldn't find the edit feature.

Cool. Glad it worked out for you so well. Perhaps a better thread title would have been "Correctly sized props are great." :D

bigmac
02-17-2009, 01:19 PM
I upgraded my cast OJ to a CNC Acme a few years ago and it most definitely improved performance. These days, I think Acme vs OJ is pretty much a horse apiece, although there's no denying Eric Johnson's diligent customer service here on Team Talk, and that current OJ props get excellent reviews.

Eagle Lake Rebel
02-17-2009, 01:44 PM
I prefer the Acme over the OJ but there are plenty of folks that wouldn't use anything but OJ. Two excellent groups that provide great customer service. It's a win-win for all of us.

barefoot
02-17-2009, 02:09 PM
...These days, I think Acme vs OJ is pretty much a horse apiece, although there's no denying Eric Johnson's diligent customer service here on Team Talk, and that current OJ props get excellent reviews.



That's why I'm reluctant to say that I'm ordering an Acme prop in a few weeks.

didierz
02-17-2009, 02:18 PM
Cool. Glad it worked out for you so well. Perhaps a better thread title would have been "Correctly sized props are great." :D

True, I should have said a more aggresive pitch Acme is night and day to a 14x20. Unrelated question to props, but are their many DFW Texas area MC owners on the forum? I saw easttexas skier, iirc on line. How about anyone else?

EJ OJPROP
02-17-2009, 03:09 PM
Trying to lay low on this thread. Good points made by all. Agree that both oufits make good products and offer strong customer support. All I can ask for is a chance to have a comparable sized OJ go against any other brand. Keeping in mind that our 13 X 11.5 may not be the same "size" as another 13 X 11.5. Apples to apples I think they are very close. While some are stuck on numbers alone, MPH, other prefer a better "feeling" prop. I would say our propellers may not be as fast, within 1 or so, but will improve a slalom wake over other brands due to many factors in design and will be as good or better on the low end.

We did set the bar for the wakeboard specific propellers with our XMP EDGE line offering many options to optimize performance. Bottom line is we all do the best we can to offer all inboard towboats the best options we can at the best value.

Barefoot - How about a risk free trial of an OJ PROP?

didierz
02-17-2009, 03:25 PM
Trying to lay low on this thread. Good points made by all. Agree that both oufits make good products and offer strong customer support. All I can ask for is a chance to have a comparable sized OJ go against any other brand. Keeping in mind that our 13 X 11.5 may not be the same "size" as another 13 X 11.5. Apples to apples I think they are very close. While some are stuck on numbers alone, MPH, other prefer a better "feeling" prop. I would say our propellers may not be as fast, within 1 or so, but will improve a slalom wake over other brands due to many factors in design and will be as good or better on the low end.

We did set the bar for the wakeboard specific propellers with our XMP EDGE line offering many options to optimize performance. Bottom line is we all do the best we can to offer all inboard towboats the best options we can at the best value.

Barefoot - How about a risk free trial of an OJ PROP?

Definetly not mean to stir anything up. I was just impressed with what a diffence "sizing" a prop for a specific application can do. Like you said all things equal I'm sure either prop would make a sizable differance over a stock 14x20. I havn't really got any time in at a full on plane cruise on my boat so I can't give any input about that. What I do know, for the money, a CNC precision prop gives some seriously noticable improvement.

scramison
02-17-2009, 04:14 PM
All things aside that is an impressive looking prop. Does OJ make CNC props? I like the look and understanding that it came from a solid piece of metal or whatever they are made out of. I would guess that a CNC would be less likely to bend? What are the advantages/disadvantages of cast over CNC?

barefoot
02-17-2009, 04:16 PM
Barefoot - How about a risk free trial of an OJ PROP?



It has to be when the ice is off the lake :rolleyes:

Ole Miss Rebels
02-17-2009, 04:17 PM
i have had three MC's. a 99 205V, an 05 xstar with mcx and an 08 xstar with L18. i have had at least 7 OJ props for those three boats. I am sure Acme is a wonderful product but every time Eric suggested something to me and i acted on it he was dead on in his advice. OJ is the OEM supplier for MC and if for no other reason than that alone (all other factore being relatively equal) I will always stick with the company that the manufacturer uses. it just makes sense to me that i am best served by keepin all MC suppliers as financially helathy as possible. OJ for me until such time that they are clearly inferior and i don't see that as ever happening. i always toot the OJ horn when the occasion arises and they always back it up with service and performance. thanks for being here for us Eric. and always, gthlsu.

EJ OJPROP
02-17-2009, 04:38 PM
It has to be when the ice is off the lake :rolleyes:

Give me a call when it get slushy.

EJ OJPROP
02-17-2009, 04:41 PM
i have had three MC's. a 99 205V, an 05 xstar with mcx and an 08 xstar with L18. i have had at least 7 OJ props for those three boats. I am sure Acme is a wonderful product but every time Eric suggested something to me and i acted on it he was dead on in his advice. OJ is the OEM supplier for MC and if for no other reason than that alone (all other factore being relatively equal) I will always stick with the company that the manufacturer uses. it just makes sense to me that i am best served by keepin all MC suppliers as financially helathy as possible. OJ for me until such time that they are clearly inferior and i don't see that as ever happening. i always toot the OJ horn when the occasion arises and they always back it up with service and performance. thanks for being here for us Eric. and always, gthlsu.

Happy to be here and help when I can. As always, I appreciate the support.

EJ OJPROP
02-17-2009, 04:49 PM
All things aside that is an impressive looking prop. Does OJ make CNC props? I like the look and understanding that it came from a solid piece of metal or whatever they are made out of. I would guess that a CNC would be less likely to bend? What are the advantages/disadvantages of cast over CNC?

We have been making CNC machined props since 2002. All CNC machined propellers start as castings, just as a hand finished propeller is cast. The difference in the castings are the CNC machined parts are cast thicker in order to machine the propeller. Our hand finished props are made from CNC machined patterns that are very accurate and provide a very good net casting, allowing for minimal clean up of the part. In fact, our hand finshed props are very accurate when finished. Hand finishing a propeller is an art and takes skill to not change the face of the blade while cleaning up the part. While CNC machined props are here to stay we still offer the hand finished line of propellers.

A CNC prop will bend in an impact just as a hand finished prop will bend. The thinner the prop the easier it will bend.

Jerseydave
02-17-2009, 04:56 PM
I upgraded my '05 X-star with an OJ 14.25 X 14.5 prop.......awesome results! Holds speed better, great holeshot with 2500 lbs. ballast (MCX engine). Always had OJ props on my inboards (4) and never had one with a defect either. Thanks for your support Eric!

BTW, your pics show the trailing edges are bent. You may want to check your shaft and definitely check your engine alignment. If either are a problem, you'll get some vibration even with a new prop.

russlars
02-17-2009, 06:17 PM
Hey didierz, don't forget to put the cotter pin back in behind the nut before using that new prop. It would be a shame to lose that new prop!;)

didierz
02-17-2009, 10:36 PM
Hey didierz, don't forget to put the cotter pin back in behind the nut before using that new prop. It would be a shame to lose that new prop!;)

Thanks, I had the old one in while testing and was in the process of replacing when I took the pictures. Definetly won't forget. There are some bends on the leadind edge as well just didn't get the shot right. Eric you can feild this question. What does OJ make in the 14x14-16 pitch range, or can you custom order a size not listed in your catalog.

EJ OJPROP
02-18-2009, 06:54 AM
Thanks, I had the old one in while testing and was in the process of replacing when I took the pictures. Definetly won't forget. There are some bends on the leadind edge as well just didn't get the shot right. Eric you can feild this question. What does OJ make in the 14x14-16 pitch range, or can you custom order a size not listed in your catalog.

Standard XMP EDGE sizes are;

14.75 X 13 LC
14.25 X 14 LC
14.25 X 14.5 LC
14.75 X 15.5 LC
14.75 X 17.5 LC

We can change diameters of all these sizes to fit your needs.

cmw
02-18-2009, 09:19 AM
i have had three MC's. a 99 205V, an 05 xstar with mcx and an 08 xstar with L18. i have had at least 7 OJ props for those three boats. I am sure Acme is a wonderful product but every time Eric suggested something to me and i acted on it he was dead on in his advice. OJ is the OEM supplier for MC and if for no other reason than that alone (all other factore being relatively equal) I will always stick with the company that the manufacturer uses. it just makes sense to me that i am best served by keepin all MC suppliers as financially helathy as possible. OJ for me until such time that they are clearly inferior and i don't see that as ever happening. i always toot the OJ horn when the occasion arises and they always back it up with service and performance. thanks for being here for us Eric. and always, gthlsu.

Am I missing something. Seven props on three boats. Does that include the three original props. I have the original prop on a 19 year old boat. Does a new prop make that much of a difference or do they just go bad? I'm kidding. My question might be for Eric. Besides maybe gas mileage, what other benefits would I see and would I see any difference in gas mileage. We use the boat for skiing, wake boarding and some cruising.

russlars
02-18-2009, 09:40 AM
Am I missing something. Seven props on three boats. Does that include the three original props. I have the original prop on a 19 year old boat. Does a new prop make that much of a difference or do they just go bad? I'm kidding. My question might be for Eric. Besides maybe gas mileage, what other benefits would I see and would I see any difference in gas mileage. We use the boat for skiing, wake boarding and some cruising.
Just do a search on "props". I think you will find numerous threads that speak to the significant advantages of the newer CNC props from Acme and OJ. I know that a new prop turned my boat into a new machine.:D

cmw
02-18-2009, 11:23 AM
Just do a search on "props". I think you will find numerous threads that speak to the significant advantages of the newer CNC props from Acme and OJ. I know that a new prop turned my boat into a new machine.:D

My wife's not going to like that I have to have a new prop. If designs really do change that quick, I must be way behind. I think I will look into it this spring. Thanks

russlars
02-18-2009, 11:37 AM
My wife's not going to like that I have to have a new prop. If designs really do change that quick, I must be way behind. I think I will look into it this spring. Thanks
One real easy way to "justify" this expense is to point out the fact that you should always carry a spare prop. You wouldn't ever consider driving your car without a spare tire would you? Get a new one and make the old one your spare. Just make sure that you get on the phone with Eric at OJ or Bill at Acme and discuss what you would like to improve. They will even let you demo some new ones. I think you will be impressed. While you are at it, make sure that you get a prop puller if you don't already have one. It makes the change out a piece of cake.

EJ OJPROP
02-18-2009, 11:53 AM
A new propeller can make a difference in performance, especially a 19 year old prop.CMW, give me a call to discuss your options. Eric @ OJ PROPS - 800-359-9730

russlars makes a very good point, one I have tried to make many times over the years, that a spare prop is a must. How many travel without a spare for the trailer?

ncsone
02-18-2009, 12:14 PM
EJ - since we are talking about props so much. Can you tell me what effect a 3 blade prop would have on a ski wake vs. a 4 blade prop? If it does have a effect, which one gives a flatter wake?

Jesus_Freak
02-18-2009, 12:21 PM
EJ - since we are talking about props so much. Can you tell me what effect a 3 blade prop would have on a ski wake vs. a 4 blade prop? If it does have a effect, which one gives a flatter wake?

I think ETS touched on this in his famous prop comparison thread, but I cannot get the link to work now. :o

didierz
02-18-2009, 12:24 PM
Standard XMP EDGE sizes are;

14.75 X 13 LC
14.25 X 14 LC
14.25 X 14.5 LC
14.75 X 15.5 LC
14.75 X 17.5 LC

We can change diameters of all these sizes to fit your needs.

Do your 14.75's have any problems with clearance above by the hull, and below by the lower prop gaurd rib on the trailer? I have a 99 PS205V with 330hp and a single axle Dorsey MC trailer and the clearance looks close. If the cleanace is not ok, does having the prop tips so close to a flat material like the hull cause any hydodynamic issues or cavitation that you have seen. Just curious about I guess what you would call "breathing room" for lack of a better word.

Jesus_Freak
02-18-2009, 12:29 PM
Do your 14.75's have any problems with clearance above by the hull, and below by the lower prop gaurd rib on the trailer? I have a 99 PS205V with 330hp and a single axle Dorsey MC trailer and the clearance looks close. If the cleanace is not ok, does having the prop tips so close to a flat material like the hull cause any hydodynamic issues or cavitation that you have seen. Just curious about I guess what you would call "breathing room" for lack of a better word.

I assume you have seen this: http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=28042.

cmw
02-18-2009, 01:13 PM
A new propeller can make a difference in performance, especially a 19 year old prop.CMW, give me a call to discuss your options. Eric @ OJ PROPS - 800-359-9730

russlars makes a very good point, one I have tried to make many times over the years, that a spare prop is a must. How many travel without a spare for the trailer?

Thanks Eric. Will do. Let me get the upholstery in and paid for first. I am interested in what you have to say. Funny you should mention the spare. I'm the guy traveling without one. Still looking for a 90's chrome wheel that matches. Anyone have a spare spare? ;)

EJ OJPROP
02-18-2009, 02:47 PM
EJ - since we are talking about props so much. Can you tell me what effect a 3 blade prop would have on a ski wake vs. a 4 blade prop? If it does have a effect, which one gives a flatter wake?

From my experience it really is up to the individual as to what they prefer. I can tell you that a 4-blade provides a softer pull and wake than a 3-blade but you may not "feel" the same as I do. I do know that number of blades, blade shape and rake angle will change the way a prop feels but that feel is individual.

So, since I did not answer your question with all that, the simple answer is to try them yourself and you decide which one you prefer.

EJ OJPROP
02-18-2009, 02:50 PM
Do your 14.75's have any problems with clearance above by the hull, and below by the lower prop gaurd rib on the trailer? I have a 99 PS205V with 330hp and a single axle Dorsey MC trailer and the clearance looks close. If the cleanace is not ok, does having the prop tips so close to a flat material like the hull cause any hydodynamic issues or cavitation that you have seen. Just curious about I guess what you would call "breathing room" for lack of a better word.

There have been some clearance issues with trialers on older boats. If there is concern that prop will be too close to the bottom we will reduce the diameter a bit and go with more pitch. There is a chance of cavitation burn if the tips are too close to the bottom.

FrankSchwab
02-18-2009, 03:28 PM
CMW -

The prop on any boat is chosen by the factory to have characteristics important to them. For example, they may insist on a prop that maximizes top speed so that reviewers don't complain about a boat being slow. Surfers carrying several thousand pounds of ballast and running at 10 mph, wakeboarders running at 20, skiers running at 32, and barefooters running flat-out might all have significantly different characteristics that are important to them, and they may be willing to trade off performance in ways they never use their boat for performance in areas where they do.

My boat came with a cast 14x20 prop from the factory. I could run in the high-40's top speed, and had pretty good acceleration for skiing, etc., even with 8 people in the boat. I was happy. I bought a (used and cheap) 13.5x17.5 CNC prop as a spare, and put it on to try it out. There was a huge difference - the boat seemed to leap out of the hole, it was capable of turning much sharper under power, vibration was down, but I was limited to about 43 mph because of the engine rev limiter. Two completely different props that make a huge difference in perceived performance of the boat; for me, the characteristics of the 13.5x17.5 make it my choice as my daily prop, and the 14x20 is under the seat as a spare.

The new generation of CNC props are more efficient than the cast props - there is less power lost to drag and more delivered as forward thrust. If you chose a new prop that gave the same boat speed for the same engine speed as your old prop, you'd probably get better gas mileage and see better acceleration. I doubt that, in and of itself, is sufficient reason to spend several hundred dollars on a new prop, though. Changing the characteristics of the prop to better suit your needs can make it worthwhile.

But if you're happy with your old prop, you can get used cast props on Ebay real cheap as spare props; no need to upgrade.

/frank

ProTour X9
02-18-2009, 06:59 PM
I'd have to agree ACME Props are great, our dealer (3 stores) uses them on all their boats I believe.

Ole Miss Rebels
02-19-2009, 11:47 AM
changing props is the single most significant modification you can do to your boat (short of swapping out for a larger engine). everytine i change props i can tell it immediately when i put the boat in gear and can really tell it when i pull away from the boat ramp. never underestimate the advantage the correct prop will make.

russlars
02-19-2009, 03:49 PM
Funny you should mention the spare. I'm the guy traveling without one. Still looking for a 90's chrome wheel that matches. Anyone have a spare spare? ;)
This is a threadjack, but since you started the thread I think it is safe. I have the solution for your spare tire/chrome wheel situation. Since it is not likely that you will find someone with the exact same wheel to match, just get you a spare on any old trailer wheel and cover it up with one of these. It will look great and no one has to see the ugly wheel that resides underneath it. Going without a spare trailer tire is even worse than going without a sprare prop. You can purchase one of these for a 25% discount right now from the proshop found here: http://www.ptxsecure.com/mcpro/detail.aspx?ID=86

BrianM
02-19-2009, 04:40 PM
Still looking for a 90's chrome wheel that matches. Anyone have a spare spare? ;)
Send me a PM. I have one that I will let go real cheap.

brucemac
02-19-2009, 05:05 PM
and i have a cover sitting in my office i'd part with too if that doesn't work out.

just let me know

cmw
02-20-2009, 08:12 AM
Thanks for all the input. I think I may be happy with my old prop because that's all I know. You may laugh, but it is the newest Mastercraft I have driven. I still drive my 95 Tahoe. My wife is trying to get me to buy a new truck, but I like mine. The trick is not to test drive vehicles. If a new prop would change some characteristics of my boat, I am all for it.

Brian, I will PM you.

Hollywood
02-20-2009, 10:49 AM
I'd have to agree ACME Props are great, our dealer (3 stores) uses them on all their boats I believe.

Coincidence the factory props are ACME or are you telling me they swap out all props for ACMEs??? You don't need to answer this.

scramison
02-20-2009, 02:13 PM
Going without a spare trailer tire is even worse than going without a sprare prop.

haha I hear that. I went to California to pick up my used boat. After picking it up I went 30 miles and stopped to get gas. I looked at the tires and 3 were flat. That is when I learned I had no spare as well. So its saturday and I'm 1700 miles from home with no way to even get her put in storage. No one was open on saturday and no one could tow the boat and trailer unless they had a flat bed (a flat bed that can hold the trailer would have been a fortune). Luckly I found a nice guy that owned a tire shop 5 miles away. He came jacked the trailer up and took all 4 wheels to his shop. He came back with them and I was on my way after sorting out my trailer wiring issues. Unless you have a tandem axle a spare is as essential as gas in your car. Even then what happens if you blow 2 tires on a tandem? You need one spare.

russlars
02-20-2009, 05:12 PM
haha I hear that. I went to California to pick up my used boat. After picking it up I went 30 miles and stopped to get gas. I looked at the tires and 3 were flat. That is when I learned I had no spare as well. So its saturday and I'm 1700 miles from home with no way to even get her put in storage. No one was open on saturday and no one could tow the boat and trailer unless they had a flat bed (a flat bed that can hold the trailer would have been a fortune). Luckly I found a nice guy that owned a tire shop 5 miles away. He came jacked the trailer up and took all 4 wheels to his shop. He came back with them and I was on my way after sorting out my trailer wiring issues. Unless you have a tandem axle a spare is as essential as gas in your car. Even then what happens if you blow 2 tires on a tandem? You need one spare.
I have also had the experience of blowing out 2 tires on my tandem trailer within 30 minutes of each other.:mad: Not a fun experience. Had a similar experience with paying an after hours fee to get back on the road. Ended up with 4 new tires so should be good to go for awhile.:) Funny thing is, all of the old tires looked great and had very little wear on them.

ProTour X9
02-20-2009, 06:27 PM
Coincidence the factory props are ACME or are you telling me they swap out all props for ACMEs??? You don't need to answer this.

I thought they come out of the factory w/ OJ's? Seeing how OJ is right down the street...

EJ OJPROP
02-23-2009, 07:02 AM
I thought they come out of the factory w/ OJ's? Seeing how OJ is right down the street...

OJ's are on the boats.

TMCNo1
02-23-2009, 09:06 AM
The Roadrunner must be using OJ Props, hence all the situations the Coyote gets himself into using all those Acme products and the Roadrunner always gets away!:rolleyes::D