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CODY_YARBER07
02-13-2009, 03:56 PM
I know that I've been asking quite a few questions lately but I'm trying to get my stereo ready for summer and I am stuck again.

My plan is to have my 120 GB iPod with all of my music connected straight to my amplifier so that was I don't have to buy and mount a head unit in my '83 S&S. I did this all last summer and it sounded pretty good to me but my tower speakers and interior speakers weren't very good quality and I have since upgraded to (2) Wetsounds Pro 80's and hopefully (4) JL 7.7's for the interior and an Infinity sub. I just bought a Cadence amplifier for my Wetsounds and I have an Infinity 7541a for the sub and interior speakers. (I was going to bridge two of the channels into 1 for the sub and leave the other two alone for the interior speakers.

First of all.. I know that it worked well last year but what is everyones opinion about hooking an ipod straight to an amplifier?

Secondly.. is it even possible to run 4 interior speakers off of the 2 channels. That will supply about 60w to each speaker if I am correct.

Thirdly.. I want to be able to control the volume of the interior speakers and tower speakers independently if that is possible. I have heard about the Wetsounds equalizer but I blew all of my money on the Pro 80's so I don't have $300 bucks for that and I don't need a mic. A sub volume control would also be nice but is not required.

If you haven't noticed I really am audio stupid.. :confused:

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

Patrick Hardy
02-13-2009, 04:31 PM
One thing to think about with iPods over 20GBs capacity, is that they have hard drives and moving parts, so these players aren't ideal for physical environments and have a history of failure if the players are thrown about in usage. I had a 16GB iPod connected directly to my amp all last summer and it worked great. Just something to think about.

Big Dogg
02-13-2009, 04:31 PM
Didnt follow if you where going to be using a head unit or not, but if you do, you can use your fader on the head to control distrubution of music. Thus, if you where to hook your tower speakers up to one amp, then using your RCA's plug that amp into the rear output of your head, and also did the same but opposite to the interior speakers. Using the fader, u can distrubute your music where more is headed to the tower, and less to the interior.

Second option
Use in inline RCA bass remote. Which is what wetsounds has clearly constructed. Then you can indpendently control the amount of volume to each area.

IMHO - I am reworking my system in my boat as well, and will be using the first method. If this does not work, the RCA bass remotes are only 20 bucks, I will be switching to those. I just want to see if the fader will work without having to put additional holes in my dash for these remotes to sit.

Sodar
02-13-2009, 04:35 PM
The headphone jack on an iPod is pre-amped, right?

If I am not mistaken, it would be better to use the line out on an iPod Dock to get better quality if you are using a headphone to RCA cable...

My theory incorrect?

CODY_YARBER07
02-13-2009, 04:37 PM
Didnt follow if you where going to be using a head unit or not, but if you do, you can use your fader on the head to control distrubution of music. Thus, if you where to hook your tower speakers up to one amp, then using your RCA's plug that amp into the rear output of your head, and also did the same but opposite to the interior speakers. Using the fader, u can distrubute your music where more is headed to the tower, and less to the interior.

Second option
Use in inline RCA bass remote. Which is what wetsounds has clearly constructed. Then you can indpendently control the amount of volume to each area.

IMHO - I am reworking my system in my boat as well, and will be using the first method. If this does not work, the RCA bass remotes are only 20 bucks, I will be switching to those. I just want to see if the fader will work without having to put additional holes in my dash for these remotes to sit.


Sorry, I left a few words out. I am not using a head unit. Just a cable from my iPod to my amplifier. Where can I get these rca bass remotes if i decide to go with them?

CODY_YARBER07
02-13-2009, 04:40 PM
The headphone jack on an iPod is pre-amped, right?

If I am not mistaken, it would be better to use the line out on an iPod Dock to get better quality if you are using a headphone to RCA cable...

My theory incorrect?

I was reading about that but it seems that you can not control the volume via line out. If I don't have a head unit then I guess I will have to use the volume control. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Sodar
02-13-2009, 04:45 PM
I was reading about that but it seems that you can not control the volume via line out. If I don't have a head unit then I guess I will have to use the volume control. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Yeah, you cannot control the volume on the line out... you would need some type of volume control. Why not get a cheap ipod compatible headunit and call it a day? Mounting issues/restrictions?

Patrick Hardy
02-13-2009, 04:47 PM
Without my head unit, I could only use the iPod volume control for all speakers at once, i could not get any channel seperation for volume.

mlay
02-13-2009, 04:48 PM
Figured I might try to piggyback here...anyone install a radio system on anything near a '82 SS? Looking for ideas that will work great but not diminish the interior.

CODY_YARBER07
02-13-2009, 05:17 PM
Yeah, you cannot control the volume on the line out... you would need some type of volume control. Why not get a cheap ipod compatible headunit and call it a day? Mounting issues/restrictions?

Do you think the sound quality would be that much better with an iPod compatible head unit?
I really just like not having to buy and mount a head unit when I don't need anything from it except the ability to change volume. Surely there is some way to skip the head unit and still use line out and change volume..

Figured I might try to piggyback here...anyone install a radio system on anything near a '82 SS? Looking for ideas that will work great but not diminish the interior.

You could always do what I do and just connect an MP3 player straight to an amplifier. I put the amplifier under the bow and the iPod in the cup holder. Very clean and I thought it sounded very good.

Ski-me
02-13-2009, 05:18 PM
Using the amp is no problem. Using 2 amps is no problem. Just use your phone jack off of the Ipod and plug it into the RCA jacks. If you are using two amps, you will need to split the RCA pair into a total of 4.

The only way to control the volume would be on the Ipod itself. The two amps would be going at the same volume unless you could find some type of fader controller. I don't know if they make that sort of thing or not.

CODY_YARBER07
02-13-2009, 05:18 PM
Without my head unit, I could only use the iPod volume control for all speakers at once, i could not get any channel seperation for volume.

Do you think that you could use some sort of fader like some people have talked about?

mlay
02-13-2009, 05:18 PM
Do you think the sound quality would be that much better with an iPod compatible head unit?
I really just like not having to buy and mount a head unit when I don't need anything from it except the ability to change volume. Surely there is some way to skip the head unit and still use line out and change volume..



You could always do what I do and just connect an MP3 player straight to an amplifier. I put the amplifier under the bow and the iPod in the cup holder. Very clean and I thought it sounded very good.

Nice, great suggetion...did not think of that one. Thanks!

CODY_YARBER07
02-13-2009, 05:20 PM
Nice, great suggetion...did not think of that one. Thanks!

It's pretty simple but if you need any help just PM me.

Ski-me
02-13-2009, 05:22 PM
Sound quality is going to be about the same regardless if you use "line out" signal or the "phone jack" signal. I used this method for years back in the 80's when the first portable CD player came out. I used the phone jack output and plugged it directly into my car amplifier....

CODY_YARBER07
02-13-2009, 06:30 PM
I really just need to figure out how to independently control the volume of my interior speakers, sub, and tower speakers without buying the Wetsounds EQ. Does anyone have any experience with the RCA level controllers or does anyone have any other ideas? I have no clue what I'm doing.

brucemac
02-13-2009, 09:22 PM
here you go:
http://www.clarion.com/us/en/products/2007/audio/processors/EQS746/us-en-product-pf_1165294762702.html

$50-60 online and great reviews. i almost went with it, but decided to try out the 420 since it has "two-zone" eq funcionality versus this one which just has one. that picture is stretched by the way, it looks similar to the 420.

on the plus side for that clarion though, it lets you control the sub volume independent of the inboats. on the 420, the sub is tied to the inboats.

then you can use one of these and tie into your 12v. it will bypass the DA to the headphone out (no volume control from ipod) and play directly out of the dock connector and charge at the same time. pretty slick.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_14260_1PR2+-+Universal+iPod+Adapter+to+RCA+Audio+Connection+Ca ble+w-+Charging+Capabilities.html

Big Dogg
02-14-2009, 03:25 AM
RCA Bass Remote - about 20 bucks ish and can be found at www.sonicelectronix.com or www.crutchfield.com

If you go that route, let me know how it works out. I am going to try using my fader first, but if that doesnt work the way I want, I plan on using the remote knobs.

I believe that Wetsounds WS420 has basically used 2 separate bass knobs as to independently control tower and cockpit speakers. This is the conclusion I have come to studying their product. I dont see the need to spend the money on their rather simple design.

CODY_YARBER07
02-14-2009, 03:55 AM
here you go:
http://www.clarion.com/us/en/products/2007/audio/processors/EQS746/us-en-product-pf_1165294762702.html

$50-60 online and great reviews. i almost went with it, but decided to try out the 420 since it has "two-zone" eq funcionality versus this one which just has one. that picture is stretched by the way, it looks similar to the 420.

on the plus side for that clarion though, it lets you control the sub volume independent of the inboats. on the 420, the sub is tied to the inboats.

then you can use one of these and tie into your 12v. it will bypass the DA to the headphone out (no volume control from ipod) and play directly out of the dock connector and charge at the same time. pretty slick.

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_14260_1PR2+-+Universal+iPod+Adapter+to+RCA+Audio+Connection+Ca ble+w-+Charging+Capabilities.html

I really like this EQ for the price. I just don't know if I would know how to use the EQ though. I mean, I don't know what most of those knobs do. Maybe it would be easy to learn.. Maybe I would just leave them untouched. I'm really thinking about going this route though.

RCA Bass Remote - about 20 bucks ish and can be found at www.sonicelectronix.com or www.crutchfield.com

If you go that route, let me know how it works out. I am going to try using my fader first, but if that doesnt work the way I want, I plan on using the remote knobs.

I believe that Wetsounds WS420 has basically used 2 separate bass knobs as to independently control tower and cockpit speakers. This is the conclusion I have come to studying their product. I dont see the need to spend the money on their rather simple design.

If I don't get the Clarion then I will definitely do this and let you know how it turns out. The Clarion seems to have more features and be an overall better deal because I would need 3 of the bass knobs (tower, interior, sub) so I am leaning towards the Clarion but if I can't figure out all of the different adjustments (on the Clarion) then it's looking like the rca bass knobs.

wetsounds1
02-15-2009, 08:38 PM
Let me clarify a few points as it seems there is a lot of mis information on this post.

Quote from: Bigg Dogg.
"I believe that Wetsounds WS420 has basically used 2 separate bass knobs as to independently control tower and cockpit speakers. This is the conclusion I have come to studying their product. I don’t see the need to spend the money on their rather simple design."

Bigg Dogg, You couldn't be farther from the truth on what the WS-420 is. I am sure you are just mistaken on it by the studying you have done. The WS-420 is a lot more than a couple of bass knobs.

The WS-420 is in fact a very complicated unit. And the only unit like it on the market. It is so unique that we won the Innovations Award for 2008 for engineering and design for the WS-420.

Here is the best way to describe it. The WS-420 is TWO equalizers in one chassis plus a microphone built it. A completely separate equalizer for the tower and a completely separate equalizer for the in boats. As well as separate volume for the in boats and separate volume for the towers. So 2 EQ's in one chassis. Plus it adds bass boost and sub freq adjustment. The built in microphone is where it gets very complicated on the design side. The microphone has it's own volume control. It also mutes the towers speakers when the key is pushed and you can talk over the tower speakers. Once the mic key is released. It is a 5 second delay and the towers begin to play again. It only goes through the tower speakers and not the in boats. It is a high voltage line driver as well providing higher voltage to the amps. It has an aux in for an i pod so it can be used without the need for a head unit. It also has a feature we call "boat link" It has an aux output allowing you to link up to other boats and play one source to multiple boats.

So to do what the WS-420 can do in a half DIN chassis. You would need to buy. Two separate line driver equalizers. Plus an add on microphone. And that would still not give you the boat link ability but you can do that with outboard line drivers and y adapters etc…So you would be way more in terms of cost to be able to do what the WS-420 can do.

To the original poster.

What was described as a bass boost knob. Is not correct as just a bass boost knob will not control just any amplifier. Also, most bass boost knobs only work with intended amplifier. Most only work for sub amps or when in low pass mode.

What is the proper way to described it is to add a "universal amplifier level control" and some are called “universal bass remote level control. PAC makes one called the LC-1. This is a passive unit. On the sonic site posted, there is one from schose, rlc. I just wanted to make sure that was clear so you did not order a bass knob that only worked for a specific amp. Make sure it is universal.

If you have 3 amps in a system. You would add one for each amp. But this would only work in a system with a head unit or eq.

JL makes an active one called the CL-RLC. What is better about this one is it is active. So it has line voltage from the source.

You do not want to just go from an ipod to the amps. The ipod does not have enough voltage to drive the amplifiers. There is also impedance issues but I will not get into that.

So you will need something to provide voltage.

So in your set up with no head unit. The pacs or passive ones will not work. (they will in a system with a head unit or eq)

The cheapest solution is to get two of the JL CL-RLC. They are about $60 each. You will use an ipod to rca plug into a Y into both. Then one will go to tower amp and one to the in boats and sub amp. You can add a 3rd if you want sub control as well.

It may be as cheap to do a single eq like the clarion. But this will not give you complete control of the in boats and towers separate. But will allow you to fade from in boat to tower and give you a line driver.

Next option is to add the WS-420 of course as this will give you the control of towers and in boats and line driver and ipod input etc...

But remember when doing it. Add something that has voltage into the amps. DO NOT just plug the ipod in.

Tim
Wet Sounds

CODY_YARBER07
02-15-2009, 10:58 PM
Let me clarify a few points as it seems there is a lot of mis information on this post.

Quote from: Bigg Dogg.
"I believe that Wetsounds WS420 has basically used 2 separate bass knobs as to independently control tower and cockpit speakers. This is the conclusion I have come to studying their product. I don’t see the need to spend the money on their rather simple design."

Bigg Dogg, You couldn't be farther from the truth on what the WS-420 is. I am sure you are just mistaken on it by the studying you have done. The WS-420 is a lot more than a couple of bass knobs.

The WS-420 is in fact a very complicated unit. And the only unit like it on the market. It is so unique that we won the Innovations Award for 2008 for engineering and design for the WS-420.

Here is the best way to describe it. The WS-420 is TWO equalizers in one chassis plus a microphone built it. A completely separate equalizer for the tower and a completely separate equalizer for the in boats. As well as separate volume for the in boats and separate volume for the towers. So 2 EQ's in one chassis. Plus it adds bass boost and sub freq adjustment. The built in microphone is where it gets very complicated on the design side. The microphone has it's own volume control. It also mutes the towers speakers when the key is pushed and you can talk over the tower speakers. Once the mic key is released. It is a 5 second delay and the towers begin to play again. It only goes through the tower speakers and not the in boats. It is a high voltage line driver as well providing higher voltage to the amps. It has an aux in for an i pod so it can be used without the need for a head unit. It also has a feature we call "boat link" It has an aux output allowing you to link up to other boats and play one source to multiple boats.

So to do what the WS-420 can do in a half DIN chassis. You would need to buy. Two separate line driver equalizers. Plus an add on microphone. And that would still not give you the boat link ability but you can do that with outboard line drivers and y adapters etc…So you would be way more in terms of cost to be able to do what the WS-420 can do.

To the original poster.

What was described as a bass boost knob. Is not correct as just a bass boost knob will not control just any amplifier. Also, most bass boost knobs only work with intended amplifier. Most only work for sub amps or when in low pass mode.

What is the proper way to described it is to add a "universal amplifier level control" and some are called “universal bass remote level control. PAC makes one called the LC-1. This is a passive unit. On the sonic site posted, there is one from schose, rlc. I just wanted to make sure that was clear so you did not order a bass knob that only worked for a specific amp. Make sure it is universal.

If you have 3 amps in a system. You would add one for each amp. But this would only work in a system with a head unit or eq.

JL makes an active one called the CL-RLC. What is better about this one is it is active. So it has line voltage from the source.

You do not want to just go from an ipod to the amps. The ipod does not have enough voltage to drive the amplifiers. There is also impedance issues but I will not get into that.

So you will need something to provide voltage.

So in your set up with no head unit. The pacs or passive ones will not work. (they will in a system with a head unit or eq)

The cheapest solution is to get two of the JL CL-RLC. They are about $60 each. You will use an ipod to rca plug into a Y into both. Then one will go to tower amp and one to the in boats and sub amp. You can add a 3rd if you want sub control as well.

It may be as cheap to do a single eq like the clarion. But this will not give you complete control of the in boats and towers separate. But will allow you to fade from in boat to tower and give you a line driver.

Next option is to add the WS-420 of course as this will give you the control of towers and in boats and line driver and ipod input etc...

But remember when doing it. Add something that has voltage into the amps. DO NOT just plug the ipod in.

Tim
Wet Sounds


I don't want to sound like I am trying to argue with you because I know that you know far more than me but I did connect my ipod straight to two amps last year and it sounded great. It was just annoying not being able to adjust the volume of tower and in boat speakers separately.

Big Dogg
02-15-2009, 11:04 PM
Let me clarify a few points as it seems there is a lot of mis information on this post.

Quote from: Bigg Dogg.
"I believe that Wetsounds WS420 has basically used 2 separate bass knobs as to independently control tower and cockpit speakers. This is the conclusion I have come to studying their product. I don’t see the need to spend the money on their rather simple design."

Bigg Dogg, You couldn't be farther from the truth on what the WS-420 is. I am sure you are just mistaken on it by the studying you have done. The WS-420 is a lot more than a couple of bass knobs.

The WS-420 is in fact a very complicated unit. And the only unit like it on the market. It is so unique that we won the Innovations Award for 2008 for engineering and design for the WS-420.

Here is the best way to describe it. The WS-420 is TWO equalizers in one chassis plus a microphone built it. A completely separate equalizer for the tower and a completely separate equalizer for the in boats. As well as separate volume for the in boats and separate volume for the towers. So 2 EQ's in one chassis. Plus it adds bass boost and sub freq adjustment. The built in microphone is where it gets very complicated on the design side. The microphone has it's own volume control. It also mutes the towers speakers when the key is pushed and you can talk over the tower speakers. Once the mic key is released. It is a 5 second delay and the towers begin to play again. It only goes through the tower speakers and not the in boats. It is a high voltage line driver as well providing higher voltage to the amps. It has an aux in for an i pod so it can be used without the need for a head unit. It also has a feature we call "boat link" It has an aux output allowing you to link up to other boats and play one source to multiple boats.

So to do what the WS-420 can do in a half DIN chassis. You would need to buy. Two separate line driver equalizers. Plus an add on microphone. And that would still not give you the boat link ability but you can do that with outboard line drivers and y adapters etc…So you would be way more in terms of cost to be able to do what the WS-420 can do.

To the original poster.

What was described as a bass boost knob. Is not correct as just a bass boost knob will not control just any amplifier. Also, most bass boost knobs only work with intended amplifier. Most only work for sub amps or when in low pass mode.

What is the proper way to described it is to add a "universal amplifier level control" and some are called “universal bass remote level control. PAC makes one called the LC-1. This is a passive unit. On the sonic site posted, there is one from schose, rlc. I just wanted to make sure that was clear so you did not order a bass knob that only worked for a specific amp. Make sure it is universal.

If you have 3 amps in a system. You would add one for each amp. But this would only work in a system with a head unit or eq.

JL makes an active one called the CL-RLC. What is better about this one is it is active. So it has line voltage from the source.

You do not want to just go from an ipod to the amps. The ipod does not have enough voltage to drive the amplifiers. There is also impedance issues but I will not get into that.

So you will need something to provide voltage.

So in your set up with no head unit. The pacs or passive ones will not work. (they will in a system with a head unit or eq)

The cheapest solution is to get two of the JL CL-RLC. They are about $60 each. You will use an ipod to rca plug into a Y into both. Then one will go to tower amp and one to the in boats and sub amp. You can add a 3rd if you want sub control as well.

It may be as cheap to do a single eq like the clarion. But this will not give you complete control of the in boats and towers separate. But will allow you to fade from in boat to tower and give you a line driver.

Next option is to add the WS-420 of course as this will give you the control of towers and in boats and line driver and ipod input etc...

But remember when doing it. Add something that has voltage into the amps. DO NOT just plug the ipod in.

Tim
Wet Sounds




Tim, I want to thank you for the clarification on the WS420. I appologize for my mistaken information and I do believe that the WS420 is innovative and technologically driven to give any user unlimited tuning and control of their boat stereo system. Thank you for the advice and clarification of your product. Wetsounds makes impressive equipment, equipment that caters to the likes of the best of the best.

wetsounds1
02-15-2009, 11:33 PM
Thanks Big Dogg,

Cody. Sorry should clarify. Yes, you can do it as you are aware and did it last year.

But it is not the BEST way to do it.

You do not have much signal output coming from that ipod into the amp. So your amps gains were probably up higher than should be to try to get the volume you want. When doing this, you will be running the amps at their max. Like running a car at redline all the time. yes you can do it. But it is not the best way to operate. You will eventually run into heat issues, have higher distortion and less them optimal performance.

So using something that has some line voltage, is a very inexpensive way to gain more control over your gain structure and give your system a lot cleaner sound.

So if cost is a big concern. And you do not want to step up to a full eq. Add a single JL RLC for $60 and call it a day. Trust me. It will be night and day difference vs. running the ipod alone.

Same thing when adding a line driver like our WS-420. When adding something with a lot more line voltage going into the amps. Your gain structure on the amps can be all the way down to achieve the same volume. Which results in a lot cleaner signal and sound from the system overall.

A gain is not a volume control. It is only used to adjust the amplifier with the input voltage. You are looking for a "unity" signal. More voltage into an amp. The amp can reach unity at a lower gain point. Resulting in cleaner sound. And more head room from the amp.

Ya'll feel free to hit me up anytime on tech questions. I am happy to help out. twhite@wetsounds.com

I will be checking in here now to see if I can help ya'll out. You can ask brucemac and some others. I am always there to help with anything related to an audio system.

Tim
Wet Sounds

CODY_YARBER07
02-15-2009, 11:56 PM
Thank you very much Tim. I will definitely be getting something then because I want my music to sound as good as possible and I don't want my amps overheating. I will be emailing you in the near future when I get started installing my new Pro 80's. I have alot of questions to ask.

Thank you again,
Cody